"God's Beard!"
Member
Doesn't Dante need the wallbounce off otg, stinger for like every combo? And I dunno, sounds like you're asking to get Raccoon assist tagged with Dormammu.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT2| New Age of Zeroes
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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Doesn't Dante need the wallbounce off otg, stinger for like every combo? And I dunno, sounds like you're asking to get Raccoon assist tagged with Dormammu.
SolarKnight
Member
I dunno, I'm not too sure of RR in that team if he's last. I feel both Dante and Dorm are better anchors.
Edit: Also what GB said. If Rocket has to be in that team it has to be on point,something like RR(Log)/Dante(Jam Session)/Dorm(Black Hole)
Hsien-Ko.
But in all seriousness, Magneto is a good choice. I'd personally probably jack Karst' style and slap Morrigan meter building on the end. Also probably switch the order to Dorm/Dante for Dorm + Jam Session.
"God's Beard!"
Member
So are there really inescapable Firebrand resets with Doom Missiles? Why aren't people abusing Firebrand?
I need to test this out. Firebrand/Doom/Phoenix might be better than Spencer/Magneto/Phoenix.
Uggh, I need frame data on the unblockable swoop.
I need to test this out. Firebrand/Doom/Phoenix might be better than Spencer/Magneto/Phoenix.
Uggh, I need frame data on the unblockable swoop.
Professor Beef
Banned
Because you can't pick up and play him off the bat, therefore people hate him. I am guilty of this, truth be told. Well, not so much the "hate" part.
Because Firebrand "does no damage"
Kappa
Good shit with the suggestions guys. Going to run a few trials with each suggestion and see if Dorm is another second calling or momentary like.
What is this Mega Man you speak of?
Kappa
Good shit with the suggestions guys. Going to run a few trials with each suggestion and see if Dorm is another second calling or momentary like.
What is this Mega Man you speak of?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Hmm... I never thought to do the Firebrand unblockable with Stalking Flare or Round Harvest.
scytheavatar
Member
http://www.shoryuken.com/forum/inde...d-lab-notes-for-beginners-almost-done.157341/
Frame data for Firebrand is in this thread, but yeah (1) I have never heard of inescapable Firebrand resets with Doom missiles (2) Even if there are inescapable Firebrand resets with Doom missiles the chances of you getting to use it isn't very high if you are using Missiles as your sole neutral assist (3) Firebrand is bad at building meter and also doesn't have a lot of health so I will be very surprised if he can work in a Phoenix team.
Anyone check out Bum's stream? He talked about a balance patch for Marvel that was supposed to come out earlier but didn't because Capcom wanted to focus on other games and is being delayed to probably after EVO. In line with what FChamp claimed earlier.
He claimed characters like Zero, Wesker, Spencer and Morrigan are getting nerfed while characters like Hsien Ko and Thor are getting buffed (among others).
I will say it again... Morrigan getting nerfed would effectively remove her from the meta if they do it improperly. Also no news on Viper/Dorm would make them the 2 best characters in the game.
He claimed characters like Zero, Wesker, Spencer and Morrigan are getting nerfed while characters like Hsien Ko and Thor are getting buffed (among others).
I will say it again... Morrigan getting nerfed would effectively remove her from the meta if they do it improperly. Also no news on Viper/Dorm would make them the 2 best characters in the game.
Firebrand.
Firebrand, Dorm, Dante is godlike. Jam Session is an absolutely amazing assist for Firebrand/Dorm, and Zak Bennett will teach you all you need to know about Firebrand/Dorm synergy.
The only problem with that team is that Dark Dante doesn't take as much derp as many of the other anchors, so you've really gotta spend time to learn all 3 characters
I can't see why Bum would be the one with that kind of insider info
scytheavatar
Member
Why not? It's obvious he's extremely respected within the East Coast community and F Champ told us weeks ago that he has insider sources telling us Zero is going to be nerfed. So it could be that it's common knowledge among the pro players, just that they haven't spread them to us yet.
Japanese marvel time. Do your homework kids:
Kusoru vs. Udaterasu (Ammy/Firebrand/Vergil)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ws_2dua3A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrFuetkAqgo
Kusoru vs. Udaterasu (Ammy/Firebrand/Vergil)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-ws_2dua3A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrFuetkAqgo
scytheavatar
Member
Because they are important members of the FGC?
Ehhhhhhhhh i dont know if id agree. (Especially with Bum) but even so theres plenty of more important members of the FGC who id assume would have more priority with this information Justin? Haunts? Max?
I think its more trolling by Fchamp more than anything. I dont see a reason to believe that Capcom has any interest in rebalancing this game. Theres been 2 patches post release. One just rebalanced Wrights assist the seccond simply took away the option to get free alt costumes.
Basically ill believe in the existance of a rebalance patch when i see it. Until then ill think its FChamp trolling fgtv viewers
scytheavatar
Member
What makes you think they didn't know about that information? Maybe all the pros already know about it but don't see a reason to tell it to the stream monsters?
Theres way too many pros for all of them to keep quiet about something like that.
But if it was true. Lets say you are right lets say a tester or a QA guy or somebody in the Capcom USA offices told some players that a big patch was coming, that a bunch of characters were being nerfed and a bunch others were being buffed.
Wouldnt we notice that in the teams they were playing? If a person who uses a character that was going to be nerfed hed eventually drop him sooner rather than later to be ready for the new patch. We havent really seen that.
Looking back the only real leaks weve had that have actually been true have been related to the guide. People working on the players guide were the people who leaked the info since naturally its pros. I dont think any pros are working on the balancing patch. If it exists.
But if it was true. Lets say you are right lets say a tester or a QA guy or somebody in the Capcom USA offices told some players that a big patch was coming, that a bunch of characters were being nerfed and a bunch others were being buffed.
Wouldnt we notice that in the teams they were playing? If a person who uses a character that was going to be nerfed hed eventually drop him sooner rather than later to be ready for the new patch. We havent really seen that.
Looking back the only real leaks weve had that have actually been true have been related to the guide. People working on the players guide were the people who leaked the info since naturally its pros. I dont think any pros are working on the balancing patch. If it exists.
The first patch for Ultimate was planned before the game even came out. I am pretty sure it was a top priority to fix the any time throw glitch. Once the DLC costume glitch/Magneto DLC thing was discovered it was a top priority to fix that too.
Even if Capcom has a balance patch up and ready to go, they aren't going to release it before EVO because they like to have Marvel breath a bit. We didn't get a balance patch to Vanilla despite obvious faults, they were saving up for something bigger. While I don't expect an expansion any time soon, I do expect a balance patch ie AE 2012 for Marvel after EVO. It's not an unreasonable expectation.
I don't put too much weight in Bum/FChamp's statements but more on what my own gut says. And my gut says that there will be a balance patch sometime in the game's future.
Even if Capcom has a balance patch up and ready to go, they aren't going to release it before EVO because they like to have Marvel breath a bit. We didn't get a balance patch to Vanilla despite obvious faults, they were saving up for something bigger. While I don't expect an expansion any time soon, I do expect a balance patch ie AE 2012 for Marvel after EVO. It's not an unreasonable expectation.
I don't put too much weight in Bum/FChamp's statements but more on what my own gut says. And my gut says that there will be a balance patch sometime in the game's future.
Um no because even if the pros knew exactly what the patch changes were they aren't going to change characters unless they have actually TRIED the changes out. Like if MarlinPie knew Viper was going to be nerfed, he isn't going to change his team unless he has tried the new Viper out thoroughly. From the looks of it, no one knows exact changes so even if Zero is getting nerfed there is nothing to suggest that he would drop out of being the best character in the game.
AE 2012 only came after incredible negative backlash at AE. I remember Onos powerpoint about wanting a balance patch and letting him know and stuff. You havent really seen that here. There was lot of Wesker backlash day one but thats comparable to Sent in vanilla imo.
Capcoms priority is the bottom line more than anything. They care more about that than balancing. Look at how they released a Gem patch for SF X T and left a bunch of broken infiites in that game.
Capcoms priority is the bottom line more than anything. They care more about that than balancing. Look at how they released a Gem patch for SF X T and left a bunch of broken infiites in that game.
Log Trap -> Teleport = Salt Mountain!
The big issue with Morrigan is just how safe everything is for her due to the fly cancels. Bullet hell in and of itself is actualy a good thing. Got a link to Bum's stream when this went down?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
The backlash on Sent was way worse. And Capcom did respond to that with his health nerf.
That is pretty odd reasoning right there. Even if it's true I have no reason to believe it.
That only works under one scenario:
If Niitsuma's team is the one that is working on Darkstalkers IV. They (reportedly) pulled two new game announcement from Captivate, and the Gametrailers guys believe one is being saved for E3 and put the likelihood of it being Darkstalkers. In this case, if they're crunching for something to show at E3, then this is possible if they still handle Marvel responsibilities. I just have difficulty seeing Niitsuma's team going from UMvC3 to having something to show for DSIV in half a year unless it's like all in the UMvC3 engine anyways and they're porting over heaps of DS content. It also gives a (slim) possibility of us seeing another character DLC pack for Marvel if they so choose to spend more time on it.
Niitsuma working on DSIV and Ono's team continuing with the future of SF kinda makes sense though. Execs maybe given Niitsuma the go ahead after seeing how he handled them in Marvel.
"God's Beard!"
Member
That frame data is ripped from the guide, which doesn't have frame data on Demon Missile H charge time.
Also, the ONLY reason I would play Firebrand with a Phoenix Team is the inescapable reset, which lets me build meter while killing for free.
That said, I already decided against it because if there was an inescapable Firebrand reset with Doom Missiles there'd be no point in playing Phoenix because the only time she'd come out is if Firebrand died before landing the combo, which means no meter. Firebrand/Morrigan/Doom would have been better.
Given the VS/Marvel similarities and the SFxT issues, I really hope it's Niitsuma's team that was given the game.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Me too, because that means there's no Shonen Jump vs Capcom. Sorry Ono.
scytheavatar
Member
Problem is, Firebrand does really ass damage without the use of meter, I have never seen him break 450K meterless. So even with resets it's not going to be easy to one touch kill with him meterless.
If you look at the reset setups Tokido and F Champ have with Magneto and Doom missiles it's near inescapable too, so inescapable resets are less impressive and viable in practice than it sounds.
Does anyone know what's Ono's status in Capcom anyway? He supposedly has stepped down because of health reasons but he still made the trip to Captivate in Rome? You would think heads in Ono's team have rolled over SFxT's commercial failure.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Not inescapable as in, you have to eat a mixup. Inescapable as in, "doom missiles tie your ass down as Firebrand swings in with an unblockable move". Like Viper's level 3 focus, except it hits 40% of the screen.
Oh man... I don't know how I feel about this still. As you said, one wrong move and Morrigan becomes damn near unuseable. At the same time, Morrigan dying so Hsien-Ko might live...
Is this short list based on that old rumored change log that was posted here before? (I wish if I knew where, I'd like to see what was proposed again.)
"God's Beard!"
Member
Bring back the old Repulsion and they can nerf Thor for all I care.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Hsien-Ko is the one character who needs far more than just knob tweaks.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
But if they did buff Thor, they should make Mighty Thunder not garbage, and act like Magnetic Shockwave.
I think Thor would benefit more from faster buttons like st.L and cr.L. A functional Mighty Thunder would be nice too.
Thor's problem is more not enough people playing him on proper teams. You have a guy from Japan who destroys with him while putting him on a team with Tron and She Hulk...
And just like I have said numerous times in this thread... I always go to sleep praying for faster start up on IM's ADDF.
Thor's problem is more not enough people playing him on proper teams. You have a guy from Japan who destroys with him while putting him on a team with Tron and She Hulk...
And just like I have said numerous times in this thread... I always go to sleep praying for faster start up on IM's ADDF.
I feel like it's literally two changes to make her alright (cr.H OTGs and cancellable pendulum with S three times in the air) and one more after that (dash and air dash speed & momentum after air dash increased) to make her pretty damn awesome. Maybe decreasing her damage scaling if you feel like making her real derp. It'd be quite interesting to see a Hsien Ko army appear in that fantasy scenario though.
I mean sure you gotta deal with awkward gong inputs still, but it'd certainly make a lot of folks take a second look at her if she got the first two buffs mentioned. As an aside, it's so interesting having Gold Armored pendulum assist acting as a supreme GTFO me assist for Dante. If only I didn't feel so limited with this incarnation, she would definitely be a main on my team.
Edit & Tangent: Oh man, it is so easy to do dat damage with Dormammu. Never thought I'd like a character this much after Amaterasu. Looks like a side team really is in order. :lol
"God's Beard!"
Member
Hold on lemme grab my frame data...
- Forward dash: 50->35 frames, frames 5-30 invincible, crouch cancelable
- Air dash: 60->40 frames, possible at 4->3 frames after jumping
- Standing L: 5->4 frame startup
- Crouching M: jump cancelable,
- Crouching H: OTGs
- 10% damage increase on all normals
- New Command Normal: 4H(air OK), Same as Anki-Hou H, throws Bombs only, Special-Cancelable
- Anki-Hou: No longer throws bombs
- Senpu-Bu: All versions startup decreased 8 frames, number of hits reduced by 3, no longer mashable(always max), can be canceled with any normal after 30 frames
- Henkyo-Ki: active frames increased 50%
- Houten Geki M: Changed to anti-air throw
- Rimoukon: invincible frames 1-20, active frames increased from 300-> 360
crimsonspider89
Banned
Well, Fchamp does live right next to Capcom USA.
And yes, Dorm will be left alone since no one plays him. Fallalalalallalla. Vergil could get the nerf hammer though.
And yes, Dorm will be left alone since no one plays him. Fallalalalallalla. Vergil could get the nerf hammer though.
Karsticles
Member
Morrigan, Firebrand, Magneto are obvious picks. The problem with Firebrand is that if Dante gets snapped in you're out of a good assist.
Honestly, I think Dante/Dormammu/Morrigan is my ideal team in terms of synergy, but I've tried so many times and just hate Dante too much to do it.
Don't we all...
Yeah, it works like this with Stalking Flare:
1) Get any combo with Dormammu, and after the spike call Stalking Flare as soon as you land and DHC to Luminous Body.
2) As Firebrand, TAC to Dormammu and do the above.
3) After killing any character, Stalking Flare DHC to Firebrand.
THCing with Firebrand and Okami Shuffle is also godlike. The shuffle lasts long enough to land Firebrand's unblockable even after Dark Fire.
These are neat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yr4JcH1sjTQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okK7psnlAJI
1:29 of this is how I use Dark Hole with Firebrand; just cancel c.H into dp.H - it's not perfectly unstoppable, but it's good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4zQnO7EO0g
Mix the dp.H with d.L, d.M, and qcb.M - Dark Hole covers them all and leads to a full combo IIRC.
I bet Firebrand has some shenanigans with Shuma-Gorath's Hyper Mystic Smash if you THC it since the thing lasts so long. Same with Dante. Any THC that lasts a really long time can let Firebrand land his unblockable.
Honestly, watch all the Zak Bennet videos here:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/demon-village-redux-firebrand-video-thread.149587/
He runs Firebrand/Dormammu/Amaterasu, and makes a damn good case for why they all fit together.
Also, Bon Voyage to tick throw on any incoming character is damn hard to stop, but the timing is tricky.
Stalking Flare/Round Harvest unblockable setups:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZuua8JKUOI&feature=player_embedded
These can only be escaped by Alpha Counters and Raw Tags (AFAIK), and Firebrand will just get the new character instead of the old one in that case. How to combo off of the raw tag "escape":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP2SGtg_EBU&feature=player_embedded#!
Also, two nasty tricks:
1) Some characters can combo off of a raw tag from Firebrand's Bon Voyage.
2) Firebrand can combo off of a raw tag when in Luminous Body, always.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Wow, thanks for the heads up, Karst. Some of that stuff is fucked up.
Thanks for being more technical about it. Hsien-Ko is more than salvageable. The Bombs being a command normal is a really really cool idea.
Funnily enough, I was over at SRK reading your Dorm thread to try and get a grasp of how to fit him in with others. Nice to get an answer from the guy himself. :lol
I'm thinking about one of the brothers Sparda on point with Dorm & Morrigan and currently swaying more to Vergil. If anything, I might take my Vergil+MorriDoom team and try playing with Vergil/Dorm/Morrigan.
At the same time, Estaka left rights make a strong case for Dante/Dormammu/Mags. I just wish if there was a good video like those old Doom/Dormammu vids on how to Magnus for me to practice with.
you can say that for any team that only has 1 good assist. zak bennett does great with just cold star and people don't bother snapping in ammy.
SolarKnight
Member
We're back online for day 2 right now
http://www.twitch.tv/versusmx
Right now it's casuals, IIRC after that it's a 5v5 exhibition match if it hasn't happened yet, then AE top 4 or so, then it's Marvel top 16 or 12 I don't remember how many were left.
http://www.twitch.tv/versusmx
Right now it's casuals, IIRC after that it's a 5v5 exhibition match if it hasn't happened yet, then AE top 4 or so, then it's Marvel top 16 or 12 I don't remember how many were left.
"God's Beard!"
Member
'course, Hsien Ko would become one of the most annoying characters to fight with my changes.
Bomb canceling alone would turn her into a demon from hell with just my mobility changes. Throw in the saw blade keeping you locked down as much as she feels like and you've got 10-15 second blockstrings.
bomb shield
bomb shield
bomb shield
semi-invincible wavedash
bomb sawblade
air normal sawblade
air normal sawblade
bomb explodes
bomb sawblade
I'm also certain you'd wind up with 3-4 bombs on screen all the time, covering her movement.
Sounds like Vampire Saviour. :lol
Real talk though, it'd be cool to see her decent. Her playstyle potential is interesting enough that it wouldn't be a bad idea giving her buffs, but I also wouldn't like to see mob mentality kill her a la Morrigan before she gets going. (In this hypothetical buffed-Ko scenario.)
Edit: Make bombs cost meter maybe?
Real talk though, it'd be cool to see her decent. Her playstyle potential is interesting enough that it wouldn't be a bad idea giving her buffs, but I also wouldn't like to see mob mentality kill her a la Morrigan before she gets going. (In this hypothetical buffed-Ko scenario.)
Edit: Make bombs cost meter maybe?
DeadPhoenix9065
Member
EDIT: never mind
SolarKnight
Member
The 5vs5 is starting right now.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I don't like the idea of "let's make all the awesome stuff cost meter and it'll balance out" approach. If anything, make the bombs do shit/no damage but cause soft knockdown.
Karsticles
Member
Yeah, it's more of a preference than anything. If you start with Vergil on point, you can abuse the heck out of Devil Trigger and the swords. With Dante, you can actually keep Devil Trigger up permanently with Dark Harmonizer, and just fly around spamming Vortex and lasers. I don't have the execution to pull it off, though.Funnily enough, I was over at SRK reading your Dorm thread to try and get a grasp of how to fit him in with others. Nice to get an answer from the guy himself. :lol
I'm thinking about one of the brothers Sparda on point with Dorm & Morrigan and currently swaying more to Vergil. If anything, I might take my Vergil+MorriDoom team and try playing with Vergil/Dorm/Morrigan.
At the same time, Estaka left rights make a strong case for Dante/Dormammu/Mags. I just wish if there was a good video like those old Doom/Dormammu vids on how to Magnus for me to practice with.
Dante/Morrigan is actually pretty broken, but it takes a ton of synergy to do. Basically, here are the facts:
1) Dark Harmonizer can be called once every 135 frames and fills 30% of your gauge.
2) Devil Trigger lasts 600 frames.
3) With perfect execution, you would thus get 600/135 = 4.4 calls of Dark Harmonizer off, which equals 4.4x0.3 = 1.32 bars of meter - a net gain.
Vortex's frame data:
Startup: 14
Active: 20
Recovery: 8
Invincible from frames 10-38
Advantage if Guarded: +10
And the big thing almost no one knows about Vortex: it locks out Advancing Guard.
In other words, since it's +10 on block and invincible from frame 10, once you land one Vortex, there's absolutely nothing your opponent can do to stop you from continuing the pressure but block. Dark Harmonizer lets you keep Devil Trigger up forever, which equals endless Vortex. With theoretical perfect execution, there's no reason you can't just chip your opponent out from 100 to 0 using this strategy.
You just need to have godlike execution to TK the Vortex over and over so it executes at ground level. If you don't want to just chip your opponent out, use Stinger bold canceled into Air Trick combined with Dark Hole for easy cross-ups.
They don't bother snapping Ammy in because they don't understand the team yet. In playing 20+ match sets with people, my Morrigan gets snapped in all the time because they realize that it's far better to deal with XF3 Dormammu or Firebrand than to deal with Dormammu with infinite meter. Dark Hole and Hell Spitfire H don't help her at all, and it's quite frustrating to deal with.
Plus, Dormammu backed by Cold Stars isn't nearly as bad as Firebrand backed by Cold Stars, and Firebrand dies easily. His opponents tend to TOD Firebrand, so there isn't the same kind of incentive to snap Ammy in as there is to snap Morrigan in.
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