"God's Beard!"
Member
You still have to reactivate Devil Trigger then jump and do Vortex again. That's around 25 whole frames where they can get away!
Whole strategy undone.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT2| New Age of Zeroes
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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You still have to reactivate Devil Trigger then jump and do Vortex again. That's around 25 whole frames where they can get away!
Whole strategy undone.
SolarKnight
Member
Ugh, on one hand, I'm glad this exhibition is a FT20 and not a FT10 because we would've lost already by one point otherwise, but on the other hand, THIS IS TAKING FUCKING FOREVER >__<
Karsticles
Member
When Devil Trigger is about to expire, after a Vortex simply drop to the ground and s.L into Reverb Shock or something else (I haven't figured out the best thing, maybe Crystal), cancel into Devil Trigger, repeat. Even if they pushblock, Vortex zips you right back to them.
I was impressed by both of those kids. I couldn't believe the stream was trying to claim those matches were thrown. Straight up outplayed in my opinion.
@God's Beard: Re: Bombs, I agree with that idea and the reasoning behind it too.
@Karst: All of that stuff on Dark Harmonizer keeping Dante in DT mode often was a big reason why my first team in concept was Dante/Vergil/Morrigan. Only reason I changed up was because Vergil is awkward as hell to me (mostly because I still haven't put time into him) and Morrigan would just be assist until I get better with her as well.
The idea's still on the back burner though. Something about near infinite powered up states is appealing to me. :lol
@Karst: All of that stuff on Dark Harmonizer keeping Dante in DT mode often was a big reason why my first team in concept was Dante/Vergil/Morrigan. Only reason I changed up was because Vergil is awkward as hell to me (mostly because I still haven't put time into him) and Morrigan would just be assist until I get better with her as well.
The idea's still on the back burner though. Something about near infinite powered up states is appealing to me. :lol
Stream monsters gonna stream monster.
But the young kid factor was in full force in the tournament. Wentinel was pressing way too many buttons against both Tron and Sentinel, he should've been playing the match ups more patiently (charging in mid-air with Dorm against a j.Hing Tron...). I can understand the feeling, you play out of your comfort zone when it's someone much younger than you. It's like you try too hard to win by a margin.
And what's up with kids playing Tron these days? Wasn't there a young kid from Canada who blew up Winrich with Tron? I forgot the name but his Tron was legit too.
Another thing I don't understand is Richard Nguyen... it's like he just random selects his 3rd character with the Sons of Sparda. Might as well pick up Zero as he's basically the other Son of Sparda in the game (voiced by Bosch just like Nero, sword normals and combos for days + is a top tier character who synergies with the Sons).
bluddtheersty
Member
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I stole Noah's team for a bit and you can do some cool stuff with it.
Like, any hit with Hulk is a dead character.
Any hit with Sent is also a dead character.
Uhh if if the opponent is blocking drones while crouching you can use Hulk's weird dash for a cross up that no one ever blocks.
Like, any hit with Hulk is a dead character.
Any hit with Sent is also a dead character.
Uhh if if the opponent is blocking drones while crouching you can use Hulk's weird dash for a cross up that no one ever blocks.
Professor Beef
Banned
I need to learn how to effectively use Raccoon's assist now more than ever.
Someone convince me to wait it out and see what's good with next gen before I decide to buy a fight stick. I feel like I'm at the point where I should consider going stick over pad.
Jesus, Strange is going the fuck off here.
Jesus, Strange is going the fuck off here.
That is some godlike Dr Strange play.
Seriously though if Strange gets started he is absolutely insane. Too bad he can't cross up in the corner, he definitely needs that for the corner scare factor.
As great as his Strange is, his IM and Vergil are rather lackluster. Pretty much whenever Abegen took out his Strange, he went on to win the match.
Seriously though if Strange gets started he is absolutely insane. Too bad he can't cross up in the corner, he definitely needs that for the corner scare factor.
As great as his Strange is, his IM and Vergil are rather lackluster. Pretty much whenever Abegen took out his Strange, he went on to win the match.
So, I'm watching that video and I just saw this combo take place. Umm... holy shit :0
"God's Beard!"
Member
Thor Grab whiff to She-Hulk AA Grab is such a troll DHC.
Killa Sasa
Member
Hahaha, I've always wanted to troll Thor/Spidey using that OS. Thor's pretty fun.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Hey, that Avengers movie is coming out soon. I say we all play Avengers teams so I can call you all posers cause they're so fun.
Killa Sasa
Member
Downey Jr/Evans/Renner is mad fun too.
Hemsworth and Ruffalo didn't make the cut T_T
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84i_dkQuVsESmurf, I think I'm retiring from ranked because I now rhyme with this
In other news, I wish I was at a tournament, the next one here isn't for two weeks T_T
SolarPowered
Member
Sounds like BS. I'm not even salty either. It just seems like they forgot about her.
All I ask for is OTG missles and Lilith's ground dash. I could accept the AV nerf if I got those two for better rushdown.
That much is a given. I expect something by this year's end.
They have to be safe. Her game hinges upon perfectly executing her strategy for a long stretch against her opponents that can undo all her damage in five seconds once they touch her.
I hope it turns out like this. A smaller budget game that is more faithful to it's predecessor means far more to me than a bloated game full of awkward decisions and bad aesthetics.
This stuff takes time. I don't think Japanese corporate culture moves so quickly that they can sack someone in the course of one month. Some folks at Capcom are certainly not going to have a peasant time though.
Buffs:
+Give her Vampire Savior pendulum cancels with simple S input for the cancel
+Change her current launcher to a hammer launcher with better range so she can get more combos off her long range normals
+Change command grab input to half circle back like Savior and change input for gongs to quarter circle back+attk or back+attk instead
+Buff normal air dash/ground teleport speeds to UMvC3 XF3 levels and walk speed to UMvC3 XF2 speed
+Buff item durability to 3 low projectile points(compare to one point currently) and bomb instantly explodes on contact with opponent(qcf+s)
+Every 4th item tossed causes a dizzy even if they get hit in the air
+Reduce startup of gold from 20 frames to 7 frames. It was a great "get off me" move in Vampire and it should be fast here
+Gold armor allows her to drain red health in combos
+Lower start up of Chirei-tou
+Give her more frame advantage off air throw and command throw
+Crouching Heavy has OTG property, is slightly faster and travels farther
+Henkyo Ki assist is changed to heavy version
Nerfs:
-Nerf all gold assists to four points of super armor instead of hyper armor
-XF1=no speed buffs, XF2=5% speed buff and XF3 is 5% more for 10% speed buff total
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
It's strange seeing top players switching to different teams this far into the game. Justin's Felicia team, Combofiend using Frank, me using Hawkeye.
shaowebb
Member
Karsticles
Member
It's indicative that the same has a long, long way to go.
don't forget me switching out zero for hawk. although i've been a zoner from the start so it was bound to happen at some point. i hated getting out zoned by hawkeye in the worst way.
scytheavatar
Member
It's even more strange to see them not doing that more often. J Wong switched between Storm/Sentinel/Cyclops, Sentinel/Storm/Cap Com and Magneto/Storm/Psylocke throughout his MvC2 career. Sanford was known for the team named after him but he eventually switched to Storm/Sentinel/Cable. There's no reason why top players shouldn't consider switching their teams once the limitations of many characters became more obvious.
It should be obvious that Iron Fist wasn't that viable anyway, so there was zero chances of J Wong sticking to him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kuTGulI9TjU#t=11s
looks like our pretty panda is in love with steve from crosscounter.
looks like our pretty panda is in love with steve from crosscounter.
Seth Killian telling people about a patch? Yeah, bullshit.
hitsugi
Member
or Seth Killian speaking about any kind of modification with any degree of truth.
My mind says fake, but my heart says "believe". :lol
It'd be believable if it weren't for new characters or people like Wesker or Zero being nerfed. I mean, c'mon, like they need it.
(lol).
Honestly, though, if they did nerf my main dude Zero, I wonder how they'd nerf him.
**
Hey Smurf, we need to play again. Even if it's FT20 and not a "Session", but I want to try some risky new things I've been toying with, so I'll prolly lose more, but eh.
You too, Frantic + Killa. Got a new combo utilizing a TAC and Nova where he hits you like 16 times before the hyper. It's fun.
(lol).
Honestly, though, if they did nerf my main dude Zero, I wonder how they'd nerf him.
**
Hey Smurf, we need to play again. Even if it's FT20 and not a "Session", but I want to try some risky new things I've been toying with, so I'll prolly lose more, but eh.
You too, Frantic + Killa. Got a new combo utilizing a TAC and Nova where he hits you like 16 times before the hyper. It's fun.
DR2K
Banned
Karsticles
Member
If it weren't connected to that poster, I'd be more likely to believe it.
I can pretty much make 2 changes or less to each of the top tiers and make them not much less S tier. It's pretty easy to shave off the top tier, it's more difficult to buff up the low tiers with less changes (low tiers need more than 2 changes).
Zero:
*Minimal scaling damage reduced particularly on special attacks
*Raikousen does not appear if cancelled with Buster
Wesker:
*Phantom Dance cross up fixed and is no longer a mashable hyper like Vergil's DS
*Glasses mechanics removed
Viper:
*Minimal scaling damage reduced but not as much as Zero's
*Jump cancel window after Seismos increased a bit
Magneto:
*Guard cancel trick off of Repulsion/Gravition moves removed
Dormammu:
*Teleport has more recovery and puts Dorm a bit lower. Easier to punish with air throw.
*Priority on jump normals j.H/j.S reduced along with their hit stun slightly
Doom:
*St.H. st.M have less hit stun, can do one less relaunch combo from before
*Foot Dive priority reduced greatly
Spencer:
*UWG no longer does unscaled damage
Vergil:
*Remove Round Trip glitch
*Dimension Slash cross up fixed
Morrigan:
*Astral Vision total frames reduced a bit but has faster start up and better recovery
Firebrand:
*Something has to be done about the unblockable killing your whole team but I don't know what can be done. Maybe increase the charge time so that the opponent at least is able to land in block stun to initiate a cross over counter.
Wolverine:
*Fatal Claw is no longer a mashable hyper. Does less damage than a mashed Berserker Barrage
The rest of the characters which includes Dante, Strider, Felicia, Trish, Hawkeye, Taskmaster, Nova (he actually needs a mechanic rework on his red life moves), Frank, Storm, Deadpool, Skrull, Spider Man, X-23, Jill, MODOK shouldn't get anything changed on them aside from VERY MINOR buff/nerf. Most characters below these can use a few key buffs and anyone in C tier or lower needs more than 2 buffs for sure.
Zero:
*Minimal scaling damage reduced particularly on special attacks
*Raikousen does not appear if cancelled with Buster
Wesker:
*Phantom Dance cross up fixed and is no longer a mashable hyper like Vergil's DS
*Glasses mechanics removed
Viper:
*Minimal scaling damage reduced but not as much as Zero's
*Jump cancel window after Seismos increased a bit
Magneto:
*Guard cancel trick off of Repulsion/Gravition moves removed
Dormammu:
*Teleport has more recovery and puts Dorm a bit lower. Easier to punish with air throw.
*Priority on jump normals j.H/j.S reduced along with their hit stun slightly
Doom:
*St.H. st.M have less hit stun, can do one less relaunch combo from before
*Foot Dive priority reduced greatly
Spencer:
*UWG no longer does unscaled damage
Vergil:
*Remove Round Trip glitch
*Dimension Slash cross up fixed
Morrigan:
*Astral Vision total frames reduced a bit but has faster start up and better recovery
Firebrand:
*Something has to be done about the unblockable killing your whole team but I don't know what can be done. Maybe increase the charge time so that the opponent at least is able to land in block stun to initiate a cross over counter.
Wolverine:
*Fatal Claw is no longer a mashable hyper. Does less damage than a mashed Berserker Barrage
The rest of the characters which includes Dante, Strider, Felicia, Trish, Hawkeye, Taskmaster, Nova (he actually needs a mechanic rework on his red life moves), Frank, Storm, Deadpool, Skrull, Spider Man, X-23, Jill, MODOK shouldn't get anything changed on them aside from VERY MINOR buff/nerf. Most characters below these can use a few key buffs and anyone in C tier or lower needs more than 2 buffs for sure.
Pretty much this.
Also, bum saying its confirmed in GS computers or whatever is bullshit too because people actually checked and there's nothing there. Also the fact that a patch by definition has nothing to do with a physical release. Two seperate rumours. Both false by mutual association and contradiction.
Karsticles
Member
Fuck you. If you give it more recovery I lose the ability to use it for cross-ups with a lot of assists, because they're tight as it is. Between your two changes you pretty much want to remove Dormammu's ability to rush effectively, which is ridiculous. His zoning is shit. He's huge and slow, which is already more weaknesses than any of the trenchcoats have.
Most Morrigan players would prefer this, I think.
There's only one assist that lets him ToD whole teams regardless of the character, and it's Skrull's Tenderizer. It seems like making a small change to Tenderizer is the obvious choice.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Magneto is a fair and balanced character that deserves no nerfs. It's also noteworthy to say that if he DID in fact have the power to completely destroy the game, he simply chooses not to.
Profit from his example.
Profit from his example.
JeTmAn81
Member
I am sorry but you may not have been at the receiving end of a Dorm teleport cross up nonsense where it's extremely difficult to air throw him even if you know he's going to do it. Way more difficult than the trenchcoat characters.
Dorm is no longer slow, he has a competent air dash paired with crazy normals with huge hit stun and tracking teleports that he can do from mid air. His zoning is also not shit, as he is one of the few characters who can cover both the horizontal and vertical plane simultaneously. Plus his spells with the 1 frame activate are super good and yes I have played with him enough to know that he is for sure a top 5 character in the game. The easy damage output on combos, the strong mobility options and easy mix ups puts him on par or above the trenchcoats.
I don't want to remove his ability to rushdown or mix up but rather make it so that a character with as many powerful tools as Dorm doesn't own pretty much 90% of the cast with just teleport into fish hook. The change that I asked for is to make so that he can actually be air thrown reliably, I would take either added recovery or a height reduction on the port.
He can kill off of Repulsor Blast assist too. It's tight but doable.
Yea she needs the soft knockdown on that hyper before the final hit and less start up on her Typhoon.
That's why I only took out the guard cancel trick for him.
"God's Beard!"
Member
DESERVES NO NERFS
Bug fixes are not nerfs.
/Kappa
I didn't add any nerfs to Vergil either as he too is a "fair and balanced" character... I fixed some obvious unintended bugs to his character design. I am pretty sure Dimension Slash is not supposed to be a self contained mix up nor is Round Trip supposed to put you in unending block strings. Same for Spencer and the UGW.
/Kappa
I didn't add any nerfs to Vergil either as he too is a "fair and balanced" character... I fixed some obvious unintended bugs to his character design. I am pretty sure Dimension Slash is not supposed to be a self contained mix up nor is Round Trip supposed to put you in unending block strings. Same for Spencer and the UGW.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Karsticles
Member
You don't think I've played against other Dormammu's, good ones? Dormammu's teleport is safer because he can't use it to keep pressure - it puts him too far away.
Your criticism makes absolutely no sense when Wesker can do the same thing Dormammu does, but there's not even a possibility of air throwing him because he has a ground teleport. Plus Wesker gets to actually keep the heat up afterwards through block strings into tick throws. It's simply a bad suggestion. Dormammu's teleport has a slower startup time than any other in the game for a reason. It's less safe than others on startup, but more safe than others on recovery. That's the balance of it. If you want to make the teleport faster to start up, and slower to recover, bringing it in line with other teleports, that's a less terrible idea.
Dormammu is still slow compared to most characters. If you just look at his air dashes, he has good speed, but that's neglecting the entire ground game. Do you know how much shit Dormammu can't punish at all in this game because of his speed, things that are free kills for 90% of the cast? No cancelable ground dash, and a slow one at that. He's balanced by having high aerial maneuverability and decent speed.
His zoning is shit. If you don't know this, you need to try and play him as a dedicated zoner sometime. His ranged game is only good for discouraging people to run away and getting a little extra damage in during certain situations. You absolutely need to rush with Dormammu to do well with him in most situations.
Cover the horizontal and the vertical? It sounds nice in principle, but the horizontal cover has 1 durability point, and that coverage takes a lot of frames. Every Dormammu player you see do this from full screen always does Dark Matter into Purification M. Why do you think so? Because Dark Matter into Purification H is unsafe if your opponent happens to do something so goddamn simple as JUMP FORWARD, which is the most instinctive thing to do against Dormammu in this game.
He has two spells with a 1-frame activate, and you have to earn those things. Most people waste them anyway. There is no way Dormammu is above the trenchcoats. I think you're missing something when you think Dormammu needs nerfs while the top Dormammu player in the world, FChamp, drops him.
If people would learn to jump, this would not be a problem. It has been ages since any of my characters got nicked by a Dormammu teleport cross-up, and that's because it has a huge glaring animation that says "I AM GOING TO CROSS YOU UP RIGHT NOW", and then Dormammu, being the gentleman he is, lets you know it's coming himself by saying "BEWARE" while the trenchcoats just vanish suddenly and appear next to you. I stopped using teleport cross-ups with beams because too many people online block it consistently[/b]. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's not overpowered. The only thing that might be overpowered is EM Disruptor assist, because it allows Dormammu to get full combos off of Mass Change M and H, and it's just stupid good in general.
Plus, Dormammu's rushdown is far less safe than a lot of people think it is. They just can't be bothered to learn anything to counter it. People just sit there and try to block the rushdown, and it makes me laugh. People are bad at blocking the rushdown in general, and they don't even try to counter it through the myriad of possibilities out there.
Also, I've been thrown out of Mass Change M plenty of times. I use it cautiously. Have you noticed that players don't just throw it out constantly at tournaments? It's not safe. 13 frames is more than enough time to punish a bare one, and a teleport backed by a beam SHOULD be safe.
Whole teams, even ones with aerial hypers like Ryu and Taskmaster? I've yet to see this and am curious.
I think that's critical to her being great in this game. If she couldn't build meter then there would be no prompt to developer counter strategies because you can just up/back until the meter runs out. Since she gains meter it means people have to actively try to avoid the fireballs and be more aggressive to stop it plus develop counter strategies.
By lowering the time she is in AV it means that now she gets less meter back overall plus less overall chip and the player has to make better placements with the AV. AV has sort of bad recovery/start up so it can use the small buffs.
Wesker's ground teleport is completely unsafe and can be punished by just cr.L. Of course I am talking about unassisted teleports as no matter what Dorm/Wesker/Vergil do with teleports with an assist they can't be punished anyway.
Dormammu is above Wesker and Vergil for sure. There is no doubt about it. Dorm might have trouble with Wesker in that match up but Wesker has way more bad match ups than Dorm.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Lol. He was asking for questions and I just said something dumb in response. Mike Ross retweeted it. I feel blessed.
I can't hear the video now cause I'm in class but I look forward to it.
I can't hear the video now cause I'm in class but I look forward to it.
I was 99% sure there was going to be an Ultimate edition after vanilla hit stores, and I feel pretty much the opposite of our chances of receiving any substantial balance patch or DLC upgrade. Unfortunately, the writing on the wall seems pretty evident to me that Capcom has moved on from Marvel.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Hell, I think Dormammu is one of the best characters in the game and I'm constantly shitting myself every time I play him in a tournament. I feel safer playing normal Phoenix.
And Karst is right, nobody gets hit by teleport crossups anymore.
And Karst is right, nobody gets hit by teleport crossups anymore.
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