Don't even put Dormammu among the combo extenders. Dark Hole causes huge hitstun decay and eats up your combo damage. It's really hard for most characters to make legit use of it, unlike Wesker's gunshot. Dormammu's assists shouldn't be on any list except for "pretty bad".
I don't agree too much with that last part (except for Liberation, that one does belong there). At the very least Dark Hole is decent lockdown, in Raccoon teams it can pretty much mean a free unblockable for example (not like anybody actually uses a team like that other than the guy Sasa mentioned, but the use is there...)
Honestly I only put Skrull there because of the Firebrand setup, because I intended to state that assists get dependent on the situation but I forgot to take him out. As for Dormammu, Dark Hole is useful, at least for the characters that I play him with(Dante, Wesker), again team composition is the big factor here. Also I feel for your Karst, since alot of characters in this game reach your potential when used on point, but leave you stranded on anchor like Haggar, Tron, Hsien-ko, Chris etc.
Fair enough for Skrull, then, if only for that one character!
Dark Hole is useful, but aside from Ammy's Reflector every assist is "useful". The question is not whether you are better off having something than nothing, but whether the assist is actually a good one to have for a team. You use Dormammu despite Dark Hole, not because of it. Dark Hole isn't good for teleporters, it's just less shit. Replace Dark Hole with any beam and you just got yourself a better assist for Dante and Magneto in every single way.
Chris isn't actually too terrible of an anchor. I played a guy that made me fear him. Agreed on the rest, though.
I don't agree too much with that last part (except for Liberation, that one does belong there). At the very least Dark Hole is decent lockdown, in Raccoon teams it can pretty much mean a free unblockable for example (not like anybody actually uses a team like that other than the guy Sasa mentioned, but the use is there...)
Dark Hole is mediocre lockdown, and it takes forever to come out and covers an awkward space. There is not a single situation in the game where Cold Stars doesn't do the job Dark Hole does at least twice as good. Fast, huge area covered, lasts a long time.
I would love to see a Rocket Raccoon player that can reliably LAND Dark Hole during the match to set up that unblockable. I have all kinds of unblockable setups with Firebrand and Dark Hole, but do you know how hard it is to actually make it happen? I rarely even bother trying unless my opponent is one of those noobs that hopes I'll use Firebrand's launcher in a blockstring.
If Dark Hole had tracking, then it would be decent. Maybe even good, but by no means a top 5 assist. It's just lacking that much. It doesn't help that Dark Hole completely whiffs if your opponent is in the corner most of the time. Terrible.
Purification is so slow that I think it's too dangerous to call on most teams. Better off not using the assist it's so bad.
If bare to the fucking bones videogame is what it takes to make a "honest" fighting game ala hyper fighting, then I'm glad that they don't make "honest" fighting games anymore.
If bare to the fucking bones videogame is what it takes to make a "honest" fighting game ala hyper fighting, then I'm glad that they don't make "honest" fighting games anymore.
Dark Hole is mediocre lockdown, and it takes forever to come out and covers an awkward space. There is not a single situation in the game where Cold Stars doesn't do the job Dark Hole does at least twice as good. Fast, huge area covered, lasts a long time.
I would love to see a Rocket Raccoon player that can reliably LAND Dark Hole during the match to set up that unblockable. I have all kinds of unblockable setups with Firebrand and Dark Hole, but do you know how hard it is to actually make it happen? I rarely even bother trying unless my opponent is one of those noobs that hopes I'll use Firebrand's launcher in a blockstring.
If Dark Hole had tracking, then it would be decent. Maybe even good, but by no means a top 5 assist. It's just lacking that much. It doesn't help that Dark Hole completely whiffs if your opponent is in the corner most of the time. Terrible.
Oh it's certainly not top 5, I'm not trying to consider it as anything other than "just ok" because other assists are better at its job (Cold Star for example like you mentioned), but if you want Dorm in a team, the assist can do its job even if not as effectively as others.
IIRC, Sasa mentioned a Raccoon team in his area that actually does well with that team. What I'm saying is that it's not great, yeah, but it's not useless either.
Don't really disagree with Purifcation being bad though. It REALLY needs tracking.
I think the main thing that changed was everyone being able to end chains in specials IIRC. And all the subsystems that were added threw me off too. I think Pandora was the last straw when I was like "this looks really bad and they're just throwing everything in to see what sticks." Seth's "we might take it out if it's useless" comment didn't help either. Everything that comes after it, and the inclusion of Rufus just kept piling it on until I didn't care anymore. SSX was announced to come out the week before, and the game officially fell off my radar.
Honestly, the new game smell probably made it more fun for me. Plus, all those cheesy cinematic trailers were really good, so that helped hype me some too. Then it wore off, hahaha. And I guess people were more inclined to just press buttons since it was just demo stations, so it wasn't the slowpaced game that it is today.
They should've just made a (destined to be bad but still hilarious with awesome CG) movie ^_^
Oh it's certainly not top 5, I'm not trying to consider it as anything other than "just ok" because other assists are better at its job (Cold Star for example like you mentioned), but if you want Dorm in a team, the assist can do its job even if not as effectively as others.
IIRC, Sasa mentioned a Raccoon team in his area that actually does well with that team. What I'm saying is that it's not great, yeah, but it's not useless either.
Don't really disagree with Purifcation being bad though. It REALLY needs tracking.
Yep, I think it's a solid lockdown assist. Not magic or amazing, but hey, it's attached to Dormammu, who is pure <3. Also does let his Raccoon do stupid shit and offers a solid extension towards the ends of combos. Not so much a neutral game tool IMO unless it's eating obvious projectiles, and even then, kinda risky. I do think it has it's worth if you can IOH or keep OTGing in your combos.
Oh it's certainly not top 5, I'm not trying to consider it as anything other than "just ok" because other assists are better at its job (Cold Star for example like you mentioned), but if you want Dorm in a team, the assist can do its job even if not as effectively as others.
IIRC, Sasa mentioned a Raccoon team in his area that actually does well with that team. What I'm saying is that it's not great, yeah, but it's not useless either.
What really drives me nuts is that Purification, even with tracking, would be worse than Vajra. I honestly thought I'd get to play my old Sentinel/Blackheart combination in this game, flying around with pillars keeping my opponent feeling unsafe while the machine hunts him.
I know that he's based off the fat Karateman, but it's completely his aesthetic. I don't like that some fat dude gets to rush me down in SFIV.
Also, I'm a scumbag because I played Cammy while I played IV competitively and I thought Rufus's divekick was bullshit whilst frauding around with hers :lol I have no objective reason to dislike Rufus. I just hate the bastard's face.
I know that he's based off the fat Karateman, but it's completely his aesthetic. I don't like that some fat dude gets to rush me down in SFIV.
Also, I'm a scumbag because I played Cammy while I played IV competitively and I thought Rufus's divekick was bullshit whilst frauding around with hers :lol I have no objective reason to dislike Rufus. I just hate the bastard's face.
I know that he's based off the fat Karateman, but it's completely his aesthetic. I don't like that some fat dude gets to rush me down in SFIV.
Also, I'm a scumbag because I played Cammy while I played IV competitively and I thought Rufus's divekick was bullshit whilst frauding around with hers :lol I have no objective reason to dislike Rufus. I just hate the bastard's face.
I can't believe that literally the only thing keeping me from going for more damage as per that Vergil extension vid I posted earlier is that I can't tap the left bumper on the 360 pad while holding the left trigger (mapped to L to store Round Trip for Summoned Sword-Lunar Phase loops). I feel sad now.
Doom on anchor just doesn't work for me so I can't just swap him to Assist 2 even though that would make things a thousand times easier in terms of button presses. Pad warriors, what things would you consider here?
I wish if Doom didn't fit in this Vergil/Morrigan mold I have so well sometimes. :lol
Vajra is top 3, no doubt. I stopped playing my previous team just because of Vajra, and numerous teams I would LIKE to play aren't viable just because of Vajra. I would love a nerf for that assist. I think you're overvaluing Slant Shot, but Disruptor is probably top 5 at least.
It's really funny though, you'd think more people would be seen using it, but in recent memory of streamed UMVC3, it's like no one's doing anything with it. Even better are people who are using the assist but with no one to take advantage of the knockdown state should they be caught out of the air. Dante (especially), Doom, Wesker, Viper+Strider is grounds for stupid levels of shit.
I don't get people. I saw SFxT videos early on and thought "this looks boring". Somehow, people got hyped about it though. Nothing about it ever looked exciting to me.
It was pretty much the same for me if I'm allowed to talk about it now. It also didn't help that the guys I played in SSFIV didn't make the cut. Seriously, no motherfucking Makoto or Gouken? (Out of fear of #fuckViper and mentions that Law is somehow similar to Fei Long, I won't dwell on them) Fuck that noise.
The fact is that talking about anything in this game outside of team construction simply does not make sense. It's the reason why people keep saying Dormammu is a top 5, but there aren't any fucking Dormammu players winning tournaments. His assists are shit, he's a liability in team synergy, like Firebrand. You have to build for him, you can't use him to build for others. Sucks.
This is pretty much the main reason why Vergil/Dormammu/Morrigan fell apart early for me. I feel like if I get some time, I'll run it back with Dorm on point just so he'll have Rapid Slash to play with, but I definitely know that he's a character where the team has to revolve around him.
That little attention whore.
I did have a great moment in one match though screwing around with Dormammu's Liberation assist and Morrigan Sou Sou. If 2C1D could be used more than once thanks to Liberation's limitations, holy shit that team would be gooooodlike. It's also a pretty OK assist with all that meter since you can constantly spend meter to DHC into and out of Dorm to change Liberation configurations. Shit gets annihilated though if anything happens to Morrigan.
Regarding assist changes, I don't know what I would do with folks outside who I play, but I definitely agree with Morrigan Soul Fist getting replaced with Soul Drain (slightly increased speed after deploying a la Hadangeki assist), Felicia getting Toy Touch, and Dormammu getting tracking Purification. Additional stuff would be Dormammu getting Flame Carpet and/or Dark Matter replacing both of/one of his other two assists and Hsien-Ko would get Gong H.
Well what is a real "honest" game? Even hyper fighting had really stupid shit. There was
-moves dealt random damage in some cases
-moves having random stun amounts
-random dizzy duration
-random winner of a same-frame throw vs throw exchange
-throw invincibility upon wakeup
-vega losing claw randomness
I was adding it to the "shit games" list, you bozo. I'd go on and explain why Dissidia is balanced in comparison to something like Marvel, but
1) Marvel is obviously imbalanced, so it'd be a moot point
2) I doubt anyone here has a PSP and/or cares about the game competitively
3) I'm eating and not doing homework.
Well what is a real "honest" game? Even hyper fighting had really stupid shit. There was
-moves dealt random damage in some cases
-moves having random stun amounts
-random dizzy duration
-random winner of a same-frame throw vs throw exchange
-throw invincibility upon wakeup
-vega losing claw randomness
Doom on anchor just doesn't work for me so I can't just swap him to Assist 2 even though that would make things a thousand times easier in terms of button presses. Pad warriors, what things would you consider here?
I wish if Doom didn't fit in this Vergil/Morrigan mold I have so well sometimes. :lol
I know the feeling. This game needs more good and interesting assists like Hidden Missiles. Way more vertical control in general, actually. We basically have Hidden Missiles, Vajra, and Jam Session...does that seriously cover every single good superjump-level anti-air in the game? Gah.
It's really funny though, you'd think more people would be seen using it, but in recent memory of streamed UMVC3, it's like no one's doing anything with it. Even better are people who are using the assist but with no one to take advantage of the knockdown state should they be caught out of the air. Dante (especially), Doom, Wesker, Viper+Strider is grounds for stupid levels of shit.
Absolutely. What's even worse is that Strider is a top tier anchor. Why do some characters get all the gold? Ugh.
It was pretty much the same for me if I'm allowed to talk about it now. It also didn't help that the guys I played in SSFIV didn't make the cut. Seriously, no motherfucking Makoto or Gouken? (Out of fear of #fuckViper and mentions that Law is somehow similar to Fei Long, I won't dwell on them) Fuck that noise.
This is pretty much the main reason why Vergil/Dormammu/Morrigan fell apart early for me. I feel like if I get some time, I'll run it back with Dorm on point just so he'll have Rapid Slash to play with, but I definitely know that he's a character where the team has to revolve around him.
I was adding it to the "shit games" list, you bozo. I'd go on and explain why Dissidia is balanced in comparison to something like Marvel, but
1) Marvel is obviously imbalanced, so it'd be a moot point 2) I doubt anyone here has a PSP and/or cares about the game competitively
I have a PSP though, and my wallet is ready for Conception. *totally off-topic
But yah I don't think anyone plays Dissidia competitively, much like I don't think anyone plays Fate/Unlimited Codes legitimately.
I have a PSP though, and my wallet is ready for Conception. *totally off-topic
But yah I don't think anyone plays Dissidia competitively, much like I don't think anyone plays Fate/Unlimited Codes legitimately.
I know the feeling. This game needs more good and interesting assists like Hidden Missiles. Way more vertical control in general, actually. We basically have Hidden Missiles, Vajra, and Jam Session...does that seriously cover every single good superjump-level anti-air in the game? Gah.
Absolutely. What's even worse is that Strider is a top tier anchor. Why do some characters get all the gold? Ugh.
Why couldn't you talk about it before?
Dormammu should be on point in that team. He can relaunch with Vergil and get full combos off of ground throws.
Eh, in regards to Cross Tekken, it just never drummed up enough attention for or against itself for me to put my opinion out on it sadly. Dorm/Verg/Morrigan might work but I'm going to put everything regarding that on pause until I learn some better footsies/neutral game with Vergil as well as how to panic cancel a whiff into Devil Trigger more often.
The Strider stuff might just be because everyone's still stuck in that "lol low damage" state of mind like they are with Firebrand.
On a funny side note though, the better I get with Dante, the worse I do with Vergil as of late. Meanwhile, of course my only competition has begun to get to the point where he can just ignore both neutral games and zoning in general and just rush in with a Verg Stinger. ( -_-)
I swear dealing with a Vergil like this is like dealing with Vanilla Wolverine. You're always at the disadvantage until the match is called in your favor.
Edit: Going back to an oldie but goodie real quick, Dante/Felicia/Phoenix is really fun. I can't believe I forgot about Felicia's meter charge ability though. That's just fucking unfair. :lol
Game isn't played by super jump characters that much since a lot of characters aren't even good at that level. It's way more important to control the horizontal spaces ie beams/projectile assists or lockdown.
Also there are more super jump level anti-airs in the game. Log Trag makes a huge parabola near the point of origin and at the end of it's trajectory. Shuma Gorath is also an insanely good super jump anti-air assist. There are also Hawkeye Scatter Shot, Purification, Trish's Hop Scotch, Strange's Discs, Deadpool's Trigger Happy, Storm Typhoon. Then there are also legit anti-air assists that cover a lower space like Task Up arrows, Hulk Up Gamma Charge, Vergil's Rising Sun in DT, Repulsor Blast, Slant Shot etc.
Reasons why Hidden Missiles/Jam Session/Vajra are used are because they have more than just anti-air purposes and they are attached to great characters. If those reasons didn't exist then people wouldn't even bother. How much Jam Session/HM did we see in Vanilla? Very little because the meta game in that version was get the invincible assist with Phoenix and an S tier point character.
Another perfect teammate that goes to waste because Dormammu doesn't have a good assist for him.
Centurion Rush M thing has been known for awhile. I won't say it's completely useless because y'never know, but it's mostly useless.
The pushblock thing with Centurion H? No one ever pushblocks that because he's sooooo vulnerable afterwards. If they do, you'd have beaten them anyways.
So, yeah.
There is a MUCH better trick / tech my buddy Kinderparty showed me that I've only seen from him (and now me) that blows everything in that video away involving TAKEDOWN.
Game isn't played by super jump characters that much since a lot of characters aren't even good at that level. It's way more important to control the horizontal spaces ie beams/projectile assists or lockdown.
Yeah, but opponents superjump spamming is always something Dormammu has to deal with, so I feel like I kind of need it. It's not that big of a deal against the top tiers, but online people play characters that it becomes a problem with.
Also there are more super jump level anti-airs in the game. Log Trag makes a huge parabola near the point of origin and at the end of it's trajectory. Shuma Gorath is also an insanely good super jump anti-air assist. There are also Hawkeye Scatter Shot, Purification, Trish's Hop Scotch, Strange's Discs, Deadpool's Trigger Happy, Storm Typhoon. Then there are also legit anti-air assists that cover a lower space like Task Up arrows, Hulk Up Gamma Charge, Vergil's Rising Sun in DT, Repulsor Blast, Slant Shot etc.
I said good superjump anti-airs! Log Trap isn't very good for Dormammu, unfortunately. Probably why I didn't think of it. Storm's Typhoon doesn't reach superjump height.
Reasons why Hidden Missiles/Jam Session/Vajra are used are because they have more than just anti-air purposes and they are attached to great characters. If those reasons didn't exist then people wouldn't even bother. How much Jam Session/HM did we see in Vanilla? Very little because the meta game in that version was get the invincible assist with Phoenix and an S tier point character.
Shuma-Gorath is not a good anchor IMO. He is really fricken easy to zone out. Super, super slow character. He's not bad, but playing him without assists is a really frustrating experience if you're trying to make a comeback. He needs a projectile assist to cross-up with Mystic Smash. He's good once he gets in, though.
I can play Dormammu on point, but it's really not pleasant. First, he's best with meter. Second, he has good DHCs and a good TAC. Third, he needs space, and he's so slow that it means starting your matches against certain opponents right in their face (X-23 is a nightmare; I don't like having to start my matches in a blockstring). It can be done, but it's not my preferred way.
Right now I'm running Firebrand/Dormammu/Doom. Tons of unblockables and resets for Firebrand, and the pressure from Hidden Missiles is delicious. I consider it pretty much GG if they get me down to Doom, though. Hate playing Doom.
Edit:
Dormammu/Doom/??? would make a nice team, but that last character would pretty much have to be Strider since he's Doom's BFF. That would be a really well-balanced team, but I don't think I would enjoy playing it.
I know the feeling. This game needs more good and interesting assists like Hidden Missiles. Way more vertical control in general, actually. We basically have Hidden Missiles, Vajra, and Jam Session...does that seriously cover every single good superjump-level anti-air in the game? Gah.
Absolutely. What's even worse is that Strider is a top tier anchor. Why do some characters get all the gold? Ugh.
Why couldn't you talk about it before?
Dormammu should be on point in that team. He can relaunch with Vergil and get full combos off of ground throws.
Dante/Amaterasu/Strider is the fucking truth. That's like the only team I like enough and has all around utility enough for me to consider it my main squad.
.
