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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT2| New Age of Zeroes

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S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
enzo_gt said:
...why? Why not just put the input in regularly? S > QCB + ATK ATK ?
Click to expand...
Somebody never played through Strider's mission mode. I think this was required for at least one other character, too.

You have to follow the motion all the way to diagonal-up in order for that to chain.
 
A

Azure J

Member
Kamisamaa said:
But what's the point of doing it for Dante? Revolver and Volcano are ground moves, why would you want to TK them?
Click to expand...

It allows you to take advantage of the Jump Cancel nature of moves like (in the stuff I posted above for example) Volcano to pull out other moves instantly as long as you end the input in up-forward/9 or upback/7. In those cases, I'm cancelling a Volcano into additional Volcanoes rapidly or in the Revolver case, I'm cancelling the Volcano into QCB+M for a variant of the ground series to shot loops.

The point is a shit load of damage on the first combos thanks to Volcano's launch and Strider assist kicking them back down into the series of Volcanoes and a use for one of the more underused Dante moves in the latter combo.

Karsticles said:
You have to start a jump's pre-animation frames to cancel the launcher, which is then canceled into the hyper. It works the same with launcher-canceling Dormammu's liberations.
Click to expand...

I still can't believe how useful 2C1D or 2D1C are after a launcher. The character gets sooooooooo much damage from it all.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
Wonder if the success of the Avengers movie will make Marvel and Capcom deviate from their "we're gonna let the franchise breathe for a little while" strategy.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
AzureJericho said:
I still can't believe how useful 2C1D or 2D1C are after a launcher. The character gets sooooooooo much damage from it all.
Click to expand...
It got a lot better from Vanilla. It almost wasn't worth it in Vanilla because 2D1C and 1D2C caused a ton of hitstun decay. Now I don't think they cause any, so you can get a relaunch from them even late combo.

2D1C in X-Factor is hilarious. Launcher to 2D1C does >900K damage. I don't think there is an attack in the game that can make a life bar disappear faster.
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
shaowebb said:
I can't think of Tiger Knee-ing in UMVC3 without feeling a little tore up for Chris G early on when a tiger knee caused him to get a Shin Sho lvl 3 to come out on a DHC with Ryu instead of Ryu's beam. It was such a clutch match (think it was PR Balrog) and the beam would've really let him capitalize and likely take it off of the DHC combo. Instead it took him completely by surprise and blew all his meter. He was so mindfucked and torn up. He couldn't go on after that and lost. Literally just stopped to shake his head during the match at one point. Tears man...you could see them.

On the flipside of that though I also think seismo spam when I think Tiger Knee in UMVC3 and that is far from saddening. Theres tears but they are tears of joy...or salt.
Click to expand...

That wasn't from Tiger Knee-ing. It was from DHC-ing out of Gimlet.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Karsticles said:
It got a lot better from Vanilla. It almost wasn't worth it in Vanilla because 2D1C and 1D2C caused a ton of hitstun decay. Now I don't think they cause any, so you can get a relaunch from them even late combo.

2D1C in X-Factor is hilarious. Launcher to 2D1C does >900K damage. I don't think there is an attack in the game that can make a life bar disappear faster.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess Phoenix Wright's hyper is a lot slower lol


Doesn't it cause the same hitstun decay as before, but you always get a relaunch because all the hits are hard knockdown and OTG-capable? The move will always do the same thing regardless of when it's used with properties like that. I know that they won't connect off a launcher if you use them too late in the combo, though.

Personally, I'd rather save Volcano as a reversal myself.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
God's Beard said:
Yeah, I guess Phoenix Wright's hyper is a lot slower lol


Doesn't it cause the same hitstun decay as before, but you always get a relaunch because all the hits are hard knockdown and OTG-capable? The move will always do the same thing regardless of when it's used with properties like that. I know that they won't connect off a launcher if you use them too late in the combo, though.

Personally, I'd rather save Volcano as a reversal myself.
Click to expand...
The hitstun decay is definitely less than in Vanilla. What I mean by a relaunch is a full MMHS relaunch. I haven't tested it in a while, but IIRC this is what I mean:
s.S, sj.MMHS, OTG assist, s.S, 1D2C/2D1C, s.S, sj.MMHS, dp.L, qcf.AA

That works in Ultimate, but didn't work in Vanilla. Your second air combo would have to be just HS or just S IIRC.

I generally reserve Volcano for aerial Liberations on top of my opponent - surprise! Especially effective against overzealous Wesker players.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Karsticles said:
The hitstun decay is definitely less than in Vanilla. What I mean by a relaunch is a full MMHS relaunch. I haven't tested it in a while, but IIRC this is what I mean:
s.S, sj.MMHS, OTG assist, s.S, 1D2C/2D1C, s.S, sj.MMHS, dp.L, qcf.AA

That works in Ultimate, but didn't work in Vanilla. Your second air combo would have to be just HS or just S IIRC.

I generally reserve Volcano for aerial Liberations on top of my opponent - surprise! Especially effective against overzealous Wesker players.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but Dormammu's normals in general except 2M cause less hitstun decay in Ultimate as one of his buffs, so that could play a part as well.
 
A

Azure J

Member
Nils said:
Wonder if the success of the Avengers movie will make Marvel and Capcom deviate from their "we're gonna let the franchise breathe for a little while" strategy.
Click to expand...

I seriously want to believe but:

IntelliHeath said:
We'll see about that. We will see their answer at Comic Con.
Click to expand...

This is the right answer.

Karsticles said:
It got a lot better from Vanilla. It almost wasn't worth it in Vanilla because 2D1C and 1D2C caused a ton of hitstun decay. Now I don't think they cause any, so you can get a relaunch from them even late combo.

2D1C in X-Factor is hilarious. Launcher to 2D1C does >900K damage. I don't think there is an attack in the game that can make a life bar disappear faster.
Click to expand...

No lies, I would play Dorm simply because that damage is so appealing to me. That and I fucking love setup characters.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
AzureJericho said:
No lies, I would play Dorm simply because that damage is so appealing to me. That and I fucking love setup characters.
Click to expand...
1D2C is hilarious with Firebrand on your team.

1) Get 1D2C.
2) Release 1D2C.
3) If your opponent blocks (or gets hit - basically don't whiff), cancel into Stalking Flare.
4) DHC into Luminous Body.
5) UNLEASH THE UNBLOCKABLE!

Firebrand and Dormammu have some solid synergy together. It would be even better if either of them had a good assist. Dark Hole isn't too bad if your opponent doesn't have mobile characters on his team though, since you can snapback-juggle between them. If my opponent is using something like Hulk/Nemesis/Sentinel, the first time I touch Hulk or Nemesis he ought to start thinking about how Sentinel is going to come in, since that is the next time he'll get to fight back.

With Firebrand around, I only end combos with Chaotic Flame if it will kill my opponent. Otherwise I end with Stalking Flare -> Luminous Body. With Firebrand on point, I TAC to Dormammu or do Dark Fire to Stalking Flare, XFC, charge 1D2C, let it go and kill my opponent. If Stalking Flare kills, charge 1D2C, unleash it on the incoming character, and then raw tag to Firebrand to start it all off with some free chip and blockstun!
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
lol every time the conversation turns technical.

gJpp8.gif
 
A

Azure J

Member
Moving this to a new post:

Having another team identity crisis here. I decided to mess around with my B Team's order more but I don't have any solid directions to take them in. So now I'll ask you all directly. If you were to make a team from the following:

Morrigan (Dark Harmonizer)
Vergil (Rapid Slash)
Doctor Doom (Hidden Missiles)

What order would you have them in? For reference's sake:

- Vergil/Doom/Morrigan was the initial idea. Morrigan on meter assist built meter for Vergil to burn on Sword Loops, Crowning troublesome characters and Devil Trigger. Throwing a Devil Trigger'd Round Trip out generates absurd advantage, enough so Morrigan can raw tag in and take advantage of Missiles + Rapid Slash assist. Doom has wonderful DHC synergy in second spot from the ending of most Vergil combos after High Time/Super Judgement Cut thanks to Sphere Flame. And Morrigan on point with Missiles is tried and true good stuff. Rapid Slash also aids her swooping rushdown style thanks to soft knockdown.

- I've recently messed around with Morrigan/Vergil/Doom. It has all the benefits of Morrigan on point backed with Missiles and Rapid Slash I mentioned before. I also have grown fond of point Morrigan (dat health), but doing so means I lose out on most meter assist shenanigans. Also Doom anchor. Although I can open people up between a small volley of Missiles to set up high lows, who's ever going to give him the time to get the missiles out when he's on point?

Of course this is just my current POV, I am always up to hear something different.

Karsticles said:
1D2C is hilarious with Firebrand on your team.

1) Get 1D2C.
2) Release 1D2C.
3) If your opponent blocks (or gets hit - basically don't whiff), cancel into Stalking Flare.
4) DHC into Luminous Body.
5) UNLEASH THE UNBLOCKABLE!

Firebrand and Dormammu have some solid synergy together. It would be even better if either of them had a good assist. Dark Hole isn't too bad if your opponent doesn't have mobile characters on his team though, since you can snapback-juggle between them. If my opponent is using something like Hulk/Nemesis/Sentinel, the first time I touch Hulk or Nemesis he ought to start thinking about how Sentinel is going to come in, since that is the next time he'll get to fight back.

With Firebrand around, I only end combos with Chaotic Flame if it will kill my opponent. Otherwise I end with Stalking Flare -> Luminous Body. With Firebrand on point, I TAC to Dormammu or do Dark Fire to Stalking Flare, XFC, charge 1D2C, let it go and kill my opponent. If Stalking Flare kills, charge 1D2C, unleash it on the incoming character, and then raw tag to Firebrand to start it all off with some free chip and blockstun!
Click to expand...

Haha, good shit. I'm glad to hear that your Firebrand+Dormammu pair worked out so well in synergy.

smurfx said:
lol every time the conversation turns technical.

gJpp8.gif
Click to expand...

If it's any consolation, I used to be the same way back when I was the "ordinary guy"/eternal stream monster of the Marvel OTs.
 
T

Tirael

Member
Karsticles said:
You have to start a jump's pre-animation frames to cancel the launcher, which is then canceled into the hyper. It works the same with launcher-canceling Dormammu's liberations.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I was kind of doing it when I was using Spencer for a short while. You need to TK a grapple to OTG, but if you do it too early, you hear the jump sound, but he's still grounded when he does it.
 
JeTmAn81

JeTmAn81

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
Somebody never played through Strider's mission mode. I think this was required for at least one other character, too.

You have to follow the motion all the way to diagonal-up in order for that to chain.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that Strider one has you TKing a Vajra H off a launch so you put'em up then slam'em down. It looks pretty swag though not that practical. His missions also have you X-factor a Legion into Vajra H then Ragnarok, which is fairly swag but i had a hard time pulling it off.
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
I don't think Loki being in the movie is a spoiler at all, he's in all of the commercials I think.

And bubbleman was only boring in MVC2. He's a mother fucker in the Marvel Universe.
 
C

Chavelo

Member
Not to take this thread off-topic but I think the external antagonists of the movie sucked butt... then again the movie
dealt more with the issues of the guys working together in the first place.
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
i gotta to watch the movie on monday because i can't wait till next weekend when my friends will want to watch it. you bastards are going to ruin it for me.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
smurfx said:
i gotta to watch the movie on monday because i can't wait till next weekend when my friends will want to watch it. you bastards are going to ruin it for me.
Click to expand...
Shit, I have to watch it today instead of yesterday/opening day cause of my friends and I'm mad at them for that much. The hype has consumed me though, so its no biggie now.

EDIT: The Video Game Adventures of Iron Man. Looks like they forgot two versus games though.

EDIT2: Hype got me derping. Typed Avengers instead of Adventures :lol
 
S

SolarKnight

Member
Don't forget there are two after credits scenes, not just one.

Chavelo said:
Not to take this thread off-topic but I think the external antagonists of the movie sucked butt... then again the movie
dealt more with the issues of the guys working together in the first place.
Click to expand...

If you mean
the aliens, then yeah, they were only there to be Loki's army.
 
G

GatorBait

Member
So here is the question I have always had about being able to TK moves to take advantage of jump cancelling...why not just make those jump cancellable moves also special/hyper cancellable?
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
enzo_gt said:
Indeed, quite a fail. Luckily that's already been spoiled for me, or else I'd be raging.
Click to expand...

I actually didn't even see him in the movie so it's cool. MM bubble man is way better. I never saw the trailers so I had no idea what was a spoiler, but Loki is a dumb villain.

GatorBait said:
So here is the question I have always had about being able to TK moves to take advantage of jump cancelling...why not just make those jump cancellable moves also special/hyper cancellable?
Click to expand...

.... they are? 2369 + AA
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
If we're talking about Tk stuff after launchers specifically you can only do that on hit. You can't do ABCS then Tk a safe super or something. And if you could special cancel launchers nearly everything in this game would be safe and everything would be dumb.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
A Pretty Panda said:
If we're talking about Tk stuff after launchers specifically you can only do that on hit. You can't do ABCS then Tk a safe super or something. And if you could special cancel launchers nearly everything in this game would be safe and everything would be dumb.
Click to expand...

Dr. Doom can cancel his command launcher on block. Why anybody uses S with him ever blows my mind.
 
G

GatorBait

Member
God's Beard said:
Uhh.... it's almost literally the same use. In fact, it's better.
Click to expand...

Why?

My original question was, why not just make the jump-cancelable move also special/hyper cancelable in the first place (since, as you say, it's almost literally the same use)?

It would answer my original question if you can tell me why it is better to have to jump cancel the move first to then be able to cancel the pre-jump frames with a special or hyper (tiger kneeing), rather than just being able to special/hyper cancel the move in the first place.

I can get behind A Pretty Panda's explanation of needing launchers to be unsafe on block, but then that begs the question of why not just give launchers the property of only being cancelable on hit? It has always just been an odd design choice that I have never really understood. (You can put Vergil's High Time not being hyper cancelable into the same category. Why require an option-select with his Trick Down to be used to execute the hyper?)
 
A

Azure J

Member
Amaterasu is slowly becoming the weakest link on my team and I don't even know what more I should try to change that. :(

I'm also having a bit of problems setting up the Strider vortex. What I want to do:

(Anything) - Gram L or Air Series Finish (Hard Knockdown) - Backdash - Tiger - Wall Cling L (whiff) - Excalibur L - M - H - S (or just S if it's panic mode)

Problem is the tiger setup comes out as a teleport L which gets me horrifically bodied and I need to train myself not to detach with H thinking I'm going into regular BnBs.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
GatorBait said:
Why?

My original question was, why not just make the jump-cancelable move also special/hyper cancelable in the first place (since, as you say, it's almost literally the same use)?

It would answer my original question if you can tell me why it is better to have to jump cancel the move first to then be able to cancel the pre-jump frames with a special or hyper (tiger kneeing), rather than just being able to special/hyper cancel the move in the first place.

I can get behind A Pretty Panda's explanation of needing launchers to be unsafe on block, but then that begs the question of why not just give launchers the property of only being cancelable on hit? It has always just been an odd design choice that I have never really understood. (You can put Vergil's High Time not being hyper cancelable into the same category. Why require an option-select with his Trick Down to be used to execute the hyper?)
Click to expand...

There's no effective difference, and the fact that they're jump cancelable means they have way more uses in pressure. The main reason they're not is to give a small executional barrier to the extra advantage, and character flavor.
 
G

GatorBait

Member
God's Beard said:
There's no effective difference, and the fact that they're jump cancelable means they have way more uses in pressure. The main reason they're not is to give a small executional barrier to the extra advantage, and character flavor.
Click to expand...

I think you may still be misunderstanding me slightly, since I am not implying that jump cancelability be removed and replaced with special/hyper cancelability, but that the moves be special/hyper cancelable in addition to being jump cancelable.

Small executional barrier could be a reason, but if that is the only reason, that is basically why I am questioning that design decision in the first place. And really, I think my question only applies to launchers (since jump-cancelable special moves are already hyper cancelable)?

I suppose my guess would be that it is an "exploit" allowed by the engine that the designers don't necessarily want to explicitly permit, but that they also don't care to actively remove.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
GatorBait said:
I think you may still be misunderstanding me slightly, since I am not implying that jump cancelability be removed and replaced with special/hyper cancelability, but that the moves be special/hyper cancelable in addition to being jump cancelable.

Small executional barrier could be a reason, but if that is the only reason, that is basically why I am questioning that design decision in the first place. And really, I think my question only applies to launchers (since jump-cancelable special moves are already hyper cancelable)?

I suppose my guess would be that it is an "exploit" allowed by the engine that the designers don't necessarily want to explicitly permit, but that they also don't care to actively remove.
Click to expand...

I'm fully aware of what you're saying, I just don't think there's a point. There is absolutely zero functionality added by what you're asking for. It doesn't make hypers come out any faster, and the execution difference is basically negligible. I seriously doubt the developers consider jump canceling an exploit, since it's explicitly added to moves, and prejump frames work the way they do by design.
 
C

crimsonspider89

Banned
Avengers was beautiful. So beautiful.

Also Loki and
Thanos
are beautiful villains.

And IM
Needs another level one that is air okay that is an utility hyper that makes it where he loses it if he tags out and every normals/special he does he fires tracking missiles. Yeah.

Hulk needs
a level three command grab with invulnearability frames during the entire thing of the grab he did to Loki and needs to do 600k unscaled damage.

And of course Thor needs a level 3
Full screen lightning storm attack where deals 550k unscaled damage with ton of hitstun and completely invincible

Next movie give us another femaler; She Hulk, Ms. marvel or Scarlet Witch if able.
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
Yeah Hulk and Thor need level 3s. Hulk's should definitely be a command grab. Thor's idk. Give him Zero's but just make it a giant Hammer and do more damage.
 
G

GatorBait

Member
God's Beard said:
I'm fully aware of what you're saying, I just don't think there's a point. There is absolutely zero functionality added by what you're asking for. It doesn't make hypers come out any faster, and the execution difference is basically negligible. I seriously doubt the developers consider jump canceling an exploit, since it's explicitly added to moves, and prejump frames work the way they do by design.
Click to expand...

By you saying, "I seriously doubt the developers consider jump canceling an exploit", it's evident you aren't quite understanding what I am saying. I'm not referencing jump canceling at all, which is a specific property given to specific moves, like you said.

I'm referencing the requirement to jump cancel certain moves (launchers specifically) first in order to then be able to cancel into a special/hyper during the pre-jump animation frames. Why not also give the launcher the property of being special/hyper cancelable in the first place? Assuming the designers actually want you to be able to cancel a launcher into a special/hyper, why require you to cancel the launcher with a super jump first before being able to cancel into a special/hyper?

Sure, TKing isn't exactly difficult and making launchers special/hyper cancelable would not allow you to do anything that you couldn't already do with TKing, but do you not see how it would be an odd design decision to consciously require additional complexity, especially in a case where it is so marginal? It is just an oddity that I have never quite understood; it seems like a case of keeping something needlessly complex for little discernible reason (is there ever any guidance in the training missions that explains the concept of TKing? It seems like something a fighting game layman would never be able to figure out of his/her own accord).

Like I said, it is just an oddity that has never made much sense to me. I thought there may have been a specific design reason for it being like this, but it doesn't sound like there is one (similar to the OS trick/hyper after Vergil's High Time). A Pretty Panda's idea makes the most sense, but there are still some holes in that idea (the presence of safe launchers for some characters; why not just make launchers special/hyper cancelable on hit only; etc).
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
crimsonspider89 said:
Avengers was beautiful. So beautiful.

Also Loki and
Thanos
are beautiful villains.

And IM
Needs another level one that is air okay that is an utility hyper that makes it where he loses it if he tags out and every normals/special he does he fires tracking missiles. Yeah.

Hulk needs
a level three command grab with invulnearability frames during the entire thing of the grab he did to Loki and needs to do 600k unscaled damage.

And of course Thor needs a level 3
Full screen lightning storm attack where deals 550k unscaled damage with ton of hitstun and completely invincible

Next movie give us another femaler; She Hulk, Ms. marvel or Scarlet Witch if able.
Click to expand...
I just got back from Avengers too and was going to post similar suggestions. I am now fully equipped to lead development on Marvel vs. Capcom 4. Let me elaborate:

Captain America
needs to reflect all projectiles when he blocks.

Iron Man
needs an air-OK hyper or just another goddamn hyper. I've been ragging on about this forever. For a flying arsenal of justice, Iron Man feels like he is significantly lacking in tools. His character design seems archaic and outdated for the character he is. I don't feel this way about most of the cast. Most of all, Iron Man needs fast air-to-ground projectiles in the form of repulsar blasts.

Hulk
I agree needs a 600k Level 3 entitled "Gamma Fuck You Up." 100 - 0 matchup versus Chitauri. If placed on same team as Thor, when he raw tags in he should punch Thor out of the screen. RAPE YOUU

Hawkeye
needs to keep his in-game costume. I also want a new arrow type: USB arrow. Plugs into your consoles and puts 60 frames of lag on all your moves. Also if hits target in flight mode, it grounds you.

Thor
needs a Mjolnir throw and return projectile. Make it different enough from Cap's shield. Needs an untechable, unblockable level 3 that grabs anything airborne with lighting and fucks you up. 400k. Should not able to get hit with She-Hulks car, and instead should whip it back at her for trifling with a son of Odin.

Black Widow
alternate costume for Jill.

Loki
alternate costume for Hsien-Ko.
 
S

Solune

Member
Also came back from watching it. My list is

1. Iron Man
2. Hulk
3. Black Widow
4. Thor
5. Captain America
6. Hawkeye

I thought everyone played their role sufficiently but Iron Man stole the show for me. Also

Captain America to Iron Man: "You're all about style aren't you"
Damn straight son.
 
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