Killa Sasa
Member
Clint is a boss, ridiculous outfit and all.
Isn't there one scene where he kills a guy with his fingernail :lol?
Isn't there one scene where he kills a guy with his fingernail :lol?
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT2| New Age of Zeroes
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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ViewtifulJC
Banned
Karsticles
Member
Ew...put him on a team with Nemesis, MODOK, or Deadpool now...
Professor Beef
Banned
GGs, Jetman. Damn do I hate Strider. :lol
JeTmAn81
Member
Nice set. You're quite the tease, though, only bringing out the real team for one match at the very end. I wanted another shot at tangling with that Kusoru action. But it's late anyway, I really didn't need to stay up any longer. Just exactly how long did we play? I swear it was like no time passed at all, but I'm pretty sure it takes quite a while to play 50+ matches.
Anyway, I don't know why I keep underestimating Sentinel. At least half of my boneheaded losses must've gone to calling out assists against Sentinel with X-Factor on deck, or trying to mix him up on incoming (HARD DRIVE!). So dumb. That last team I was playing was my main team. It seemed like Wesker wasn't really effective against armored characters.
I'm not sure if that's the character or the way I'm playing him. Hence switching to Dante. Sometimes I wonder if I shouldn't drop Wesker for someone with some decent firepower available on the assist. Of course, they'd have to work well with Strider too. I've been playing a Dante/Doom/Strider team a bit, but my Doom is kaka so who knows.
I did like getting to play Taskmaster against Team Armor. It seems like he should be able to do pretty well against that, though I don't really know any decent Ultimate combos with him. I felt like I was able to level up that team a bit as a whole during those sessions. It helps when you can go back and forth a bit instead of just being stomped by unstoppable mixups over and over.
Professor Beef
Banned
To be fair, I do use Team Armor for reals as well as Kusoru's team. Team Armor is just more fun.
You were chicken blocking a LOT too, which is why I just started going for airgrabs and Nemesis' air command grab.
biosnake20
Member
I love PR rogs new team. Wolverine and the sparda brothers
JeTmAn81
Member
Yeah, you made some good reads with the grabs, especially with Nemesis. Team Armor gots to be about them command grabs.
That Wolvie/Vergil/Dante team i played was inspired by PR Rog. I like having Dante on teams as it gives me something to fall back on. Wolverine is so dumb though.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
How does that team even work? Why is PR Rog successful with these poorly put together teams?
A really good Wolverine and Dante. Its what carries him tbh.
What are the assists?
Dante's Weasel Shot is a solid assist for Wolverine and Vergil plus Rapid Slash is good for Wolverine too (better in the corners though). Don't know the order or assists he is playing the team in but it's not a bad team at all much better than some of the stuff he has put together before.
Dante's Weasel Shot is a solid assist for Wolverine and Vergil plus Rapid Slash is good for Wolverine too (better in the corners though). Don't know the order or assists he is playing the team in but it's not a bad team at all much better than some of the stuff he has put together before.
I'm pretty sure it's Wolverine/Dante/Vergil with Crystal for Dante and Rapid Slash for Vergil. Crystal for Dante on that team is such a waste. It's too slow for Wolverine to really get anything off it. Either of his other two assists are leagues better for Wolverine. If Dante was last, maybe I'd see using it, but if you're gonna throw Vergil in the back don't bother picking Crystal. There's no guarantee you'll switch around to Vergil/Dante, meaning Dante is pretty much a deadweight for Wolverine on the assist front.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Oh it probably works I just think it's lame how PR Rog's team are 2 characters he used from Vanilla + whoever people are complaining are cheap this week.
He uses Dantes crystal otg for Wolverine. Wolverine/Dante/Vergil
Its not optimal if you ask me, and i just dont like Rapid Slash for Berserker slash mixups with Wovlerine.
Karsticles
Member
Crystal to OTG is pretty weird. Can't Wolverine's df.M + any of Dante's assists lead to a pickup?
I think it's more for the Vergil stuff, though I think Jam Session or Weasel Shot would be better for Vergil especially since Vergil can do loops without an OTG.
Karsticles
Member
Doesn't this work for Vergil to OTG?
df.H + Jam Session, cancel into teleport, sj.MHS (ground bounce) - full combo?
SolarKnight
Member
Does Vergil even know what scaling is though? >__>
Yeah, even late in the combo you can do a raw j.S to ground bounce. It's what I do when I have Vergil backed by Jam Session.
Wolverine with Jam Session is dumb, and if you're going to pair Wolverine/Dante together, you should be using Jam Session imo. The mixups and resets he gets off Jam Session is just stupid.
Nope. I honestly prefer Jam Session for Vergil because it gives him retarded incoming mixups, works as a pseudo Tatsu for ground teleport mixups, allows for easy OTG combos off ground throws(where the scaling doesn't matter in the first place), and makes a wall for him to chuck a Round Trip or activate Spiral Swords.
Karsticles
Member
Then it is agreed: PRBalrog should change the assist.
Killa Sasa
Member
Yup, Jam session is the better assist for everything for both those characters.
PR Rog is just really really good to win with his 3 MFer approach.
PR Rog is just really really good to win with his 3 MFer approach.
Crystal OTG works for Wolverine off of an air throw since he can call it as soon as he throws them to the ground which is crucial for his game plan. Also don't underestimate the amount of block stun and durability that Crystal has, if you can cover it's start up animation as it comes you will get some nice profit off of it.
Rapid Slash is probably for the OTG + Slide combos/follow ups especially in the corner plus for mix ups. Using Rapid Slash to get in though is terrible as that assist is highly vulnerable from the front end (once it passes it's very difficult to hit him out of it). Basically he doesn't have a get in assist at all.
Vergil is basically there for the derp anchor and Rapid Slash is alright for Dante (good for mix ups, combo extensions and spacing control).
Jam Session would work better for Vergil than Wolverine. Once a combo is scaled with an assist, Wolverine's damage takes a nose dive after max scaling if you don't have meter on deck for Fatal Claw loops. You would still not have any way to get in, Jam Session is not a way in by any means. Vergil can capitalize off of Jam Session easily and if he has the meter he can pile on the damage a ton off of it. Plus his welcome mix up game is amplified greatly by it as well as his pressure/lock down game. He just can't do teleport mix ups from long distances which IMO you need to have the threat of to be a top Vergil.
Oh and as far as combo extensions goes.. Crystal > Jam Session for Vergil. If he can save up that ground bounce or not have to use meter for the Helm Breaker/Hightime pick up, he gets to kill characters rather easily. But Jam Session is overall much more useful for Vergil.
Rapid Slash is probably for the OTG + Slide combos/follow ups especially in the corner plus for mix ups. Using Rapid Slash to get in though is terrible as that assist is highly vulnerable from the front end (once it passes it's very difficult to hit him out of it). Basically he doesn't have a get in assist at all.
Vergil is basically there for the derp anchor and Rapid Slash is alright for Dante (good for mix ups, combo extensions and spacing control).
Jam Session would work better for Vergil than Wolverine. Once a combo is scaled with an assist, Wolverine's damage takes a nose dive after max scaling if you don't have meter on deck for Fatal Claw loops. You would still not have any way to get in, Jam Session is not a way in by any means. Vergil can capitalize off of Jam Session easily and if he has the meter he can pile on the damage a ton off of it. Plus his welcome mix up game is amplified greatly by it as well as his pressure/lock down game. He just can't do teleport mix ups from long distances which IMO you need to have the threat of to be a top Vergil.
Oh and as far as combo extensions goes.. Crystal > Jam Session for Vergil. If he can save up that ground bounce or not have to use meter for the Helm Breaker/Hightime pick up, he gets to kill characters rather easily. But Jam Session is overall much more useful for Vergil.
"God's Beard!"
Member
It'd be cool if Dante's assists were Hysteric, Twister->Tempest and Revolver->Crazy Dance.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
GGs Biz!
That Zero is uh
uh
I hope he gets nerfed to hell if there is a patch!
But at least Hawkeye got you in a few games. I was going to stay longer but I forgot I had family coming over today sorry I just left.
That Zero is uh
uh
I hope he gets nerfed to hell if there is a patch!
But at least Hawkeye got you in a few games. I was going to stay longer but I forgot I had family coming over today sorry I just left.
fucking Zero makes my want to slap a baby. I'm so salty. god. damn. him.
Karsticles
Member
Nerf him right along with Vajra becoming a soft knockdown and making Vergil's Spiral Swords a level 2.GGs Biz!
That Zero is uh
uh
I hope he gets nerfed to hell if there is a patch!
But at least Hawkeye got you in a few games. I was going to stay longer but I forgot I had family coming over today sorry I just left.
fucking Zero makes my want to slap a baby. I'm so salty. god. damn. him.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Karsticles
Member
How else would you nerf it, then? It's clearly far too strong of an assist - it has absolutely no parallel. Its strength far outweighs its risk, putting it out of line with other strong screen covering assists like Mystic Ray, Sentinel Force, and Hidden Missiles. Dormammu's Purification assist doesn't even track and it wouldn't lead to shit, but Vajra does and leads to full combos. It's basically a Haggar 2.0 assist, except the character it's attached to is also one of the best anchors in the game.
Professor Beef
Banned
Better yet, don't make Vajra knockdown at all! Just let it be a regular hit.
Karsticles
Member
shaowebb
Member
I love you.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
You guys are crazy. Vajra is fair and balanced.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
None taken, because I believe there is an unlimited amount of dumb associated with Zero.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Yeah Nova is definitely one of the better characters for getting in on Hawkeye.
Chat is by invite only I think, which I just sent to you.
Chat is by invite only I think, which I just sent to you.
Karsticles
Member
There's a GAF PS3 chat, but it's almost always empty and Panda won't even come in when I invite him!Hah
It mostly affected Nova, though, who I need versus runaway.
All good, though, I think it's mostly me. Just set it up so I can play you PS3 folk anytime, now. What's the chat you guys use?
If you want an invite, feel free to send me a friend request. PSN same as my name here.
Aside from Spiral Swords, I think Vergil is fine though. I just don't think he should get free full screen mix-ups for 1 bar. What other character gets anything like that?
Again, just compare Vajra to other assists of its type. It's above and beyond what others can do. The relevant comparison would be making Dormammu's Purification assist have homing and cause knockdown. That would be absolutely stupid. Characters that don't have any reasonable ground movement options get completely shut down by Vajra.Oh and I don't think Vajra needs nerfed. Just requires you to be more careful / stay on the ground more.
MODOK owns Vajra, too
I would legitimately cry. :lol
Vajira's used more as a "threat of" assist than for what it should be doing, only because I've traumatized my brother into blocking whenever it's called. I should really get around to making more resets/extensions with the thing though.
SolarPowered
Member
I've gotten so used to the DS3 after Vampire that the 360 D pad feels like crap to me. I've been looking for an excuse to buy the PS3 version of UMvC3 so I could spam sou sou sou sou and get serious about the game. Still waiting for EVO just to see if
Karsticles
Member
I dig. It would suck to finally buy it after all this time just to get a new version announced in 2 months.
He's convinced me, sorry Panda. I may have just trying to be nice lol.
If you see him use Spiral Swords from full screen away, then you immediately super jump up. By the time you come down his Spiral Swords are almost finished, they don't last long at all. It's a very costly meter consumption especially since if he even gets a confirm off of it the combo is going to be VERY finicky and it's even worse if he tags you at super jump height (I personally can't correctly confirm a combo at sj height while SS are active). And again... Vergil is the only character who can't whiff cancel normals so that's why he gets to have these tools plus his teleports both on start up and recovery is one of the worst there is and requires that you set up with an assist, a Round Trip or Spiral Swords. Plus he has like 0 high/low mix up and once you block the Spiral Swords once and hold down/back he wasted his precious meter. His best high low mix up is a 2 bar option... and in your suggestion would be a 3 bar option.
The bigger issue with Vergil is the damage and meter gain he gets while doing Spiral Sword combos. The damage/meter gain on Lunar Phase in particular is too high, it's 50K at max scaling per move and he can get many of those off during a Spiral Sword loop. He can also get like 2.5 meters off of a Rapid Slash confirm using assists which is ridiculous. I have been saying this like day -1 of Vergil. You correct that move like Capcom did Beehive you basically cut his total damage output by around 20% no lie.
A mix up character that relies on meter should remain a mix up character that relies on meter. If his damage is adjusted to be more in the Magneto/Dante category then he would be better as you would have to learn actual resets with him which lately people have stopped developing because you can just learn his TODs.
Karsticles
Member
How do you miss a normal with a character that teleports and covers half the screen with them? If you're concerned about safety, there's always Devil Trigger. Did you notice that Vergil's Devil Trigger pretty much only gets used for his level 4? That's because Spiral Swords is disproportionately better. There's absolutely no reason to ever, ever spend a second bar on Spiral Swords to swap it to Blistering Swords, because Spiral Swords is just so damn good.
Damage scaling doesn't matter if the character is in XF3. Vergil is too strong as an anchor, and it's 100% because of Spiral Swords. I think making it a level 2, especially compared to Ouroboros, is very fair. There's no way that you could actually believe Spiral Swords has 1/3 the value of Ouroboros.
Killa Sasa
Member
Fix Vergil's dumbass hitstun and both sides hitboxes and I'm happy tbh. He'd still be stupid but not so face-rolly. And I've said it a million times, but if you whiff his gigantic normals, you deserve to die. He's the character that gets the most WHY's out of me aside from Zero.
Spiral Swords is max bullshit but real hitstun deterioration would take away my biggest problem with it. It is Soul Satellite (Chocolate SFIV version) on crack though.
Vajra being soft knockdown would be fine IMO. Karst handled that really well. It doesn't fit with their philosophy of amazing anchor OR amazing assist. There are ways around it of course, but it shouldn't be that good. Soft knockdown leaves most of the character/assist intact while having to actually think about using it.
Spiral Swords is max bullshit but real hitstun deterioration would take away my biggest problem with it. It is Soul Satellite (Chocolate SFIV version) on crack though.
Vajra being soft knockdown would be fine IMO. Karst handled that really well. It doesn't fit with their philosophy of amazing anchor OR amazing assist. There are ways around it of course, but it shouldn't be that good. Soft knockdown leaves most of the character/assist intact while having to actually think about using it.
The whiff normals comes into play at ranges within st.H when you are pressurized by fast characters. And the better Vergil players utilize DT more in the neutral especially players like Omniscythe. In some ways DT is better and amplifies his anchor capabilities even further plus making his assists better. He can go at least 5/5 with any characters while in DT mode. When you mess something up you go into DT instead of SS because DT lasts way longer. SS is for combos and lockdown/mix ups and DT is for neutral game dominance and superior rushdown.
And there is definitely reason to use the other swords formation now that tech has been developed. The Blistering sword gives Vergil a legit instant overhead as used by Dacidbro at Norcal Knockouts. Plus it gives you LONGER lock down than Spiral Swords if you space out the swords correctly.... the problem is that people don't know how to use it but it's a tool even more powerful than Spiral Swords. Japanese players have begun to use it more and are profiting from it. No need to talk about Storm Swords, it's a situational but very strong tool in the 1 on 1 battle that basically "check mates" Phoenix as Viscant put it.
So now we are talking about XF3 Vergil with meter. If you nerf Spiral Swords to 2 meter, then people will just turn on DT and basically achieve damage/speed above Dark Wesker level.
I think Ouroborus is underpowered at LVL3 just like Jill's LVL3 and Firebrand's LVL3. These should be LVL2 or made better. For the record I do think Spiral Sword is too good but not in the ways that you think it is. Similarly I think EX Seismo is busted, I mean what other hyper covers that much portion of the screen, has insane invincibility, is +30 on block or something and leads into a full TOD? I also think Sogenmu is busted as well but that's more like the character the hyper is attached to than the hyper itself.
You probably can't fix his hit stun without changing the properties around completely. A lot of his moves cause soft knockdown which he keeps looping together with Spiral Swords for long and damaging combos. I suggested the fix in the previous post.
Hitboxes could always use a nerf but judging from the hitbox viewer in PS Vita the problem is more the hurt bubbles than the hit bubbles. Aside from a few notable exceptions, the hit bubbles are way more conservative than they might feel but the hurt bubbles extend much further than the character's visual appearance. I am speaking this in general and not just for Vergil.
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