A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Yeah I'm confused, I wasn't aware this changed from Vanilla.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT2| New Age of Zeroes
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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Yeah I'm confused, I wasn't aware this changed from Vanilla.
Certain characters abuse x-factor way more than others. Doom gets faster and gets the damage boost, but it doesn't make him more frightning. It doesn't make him "dark" like it does to Vergil/Wesker/Chun/etc. It makes his corner pressure / incoming character mixups better, but even with the speed boost he can't really get in on some characters, especially the kind that love to be in the upper corner of the screen. He also can't really take advantage of chip, as finger lasers doesn't really do any, even in xf3.
Having an x-factor character is a boon to any team, and not having one on anchor is a negative. BUT you do get Vergil with Doom missiles, and if you're willing to gamble, an XF2 Vergil with Doom missiles. Both are fine options, and which one is better is still just opinion at this point of the game's life cycle.
And it's not like team order is set in stone. If you don't get horribly massacred, you can switch Vergil/Doom around during the match to get Vergil where you want him. I could be part of your overall gameplan. Something like, when Vergil is down to half health, switch them. I rock a Doom anchor, but I'll always switch them if I can.
Having an x-factor character is a boon to any team, and not having one on anchor is a negative. BUT you do get Vergil with Doom missiles, and if you're willing to gamble, an XF2 Vergil with Doom missiles. Both are fine options, and which one is better is still just opinion at this point of the game's life cycle.
And it's not like team order is set in stone. If you don't get horribly massacred, you can switch Vergil/Doom around during the match to get Vergil where you want him. I could be part of your overall gameplan. Something like, when Vergil is down to half health, switch them. I rock a Doom anchor, but I'll always switch them if I can.
lol Everyone says this! I forgot to look at the guide, does it even have invincibility frames? When I was running my old (scrubby) team Wesker/Dante/Akuma I'd always try to teleport cancel into Raging Demon.
Right it's about play style in this setup because Zero DHC into Vergil = a dead character for sure, even if you can't do those fancy LIGHTNING LOOPS. It also depends which assist you're running, if you're running Beam Assist, absolutely Vergil/Doom is the proper order to go in. If you're using Missiles well, you can force semi-lockdown with Roundtrip + Missiles. However Doom + Rapidslash is actually pretty effective for zoning. Photon shot to force opponents to the ground Vergil forces opponents to opposite side, block stun allows Doom to Plasma Beam H.
Plasma Beam H > Rapid Slash > Plasma Beam H is also something like 212K, that's a huge chunk of damage.
shaowebb
Member
Expect me to disappear in 2013 unless there is a UMVC3 sequel guys. A DC fighting game just got announced. Yeah its Netherrealm but considering MK9 was fun and this game seems to be trying to cater its action toward more DC relative effects I am just that big of a fan that I'll take it even if it does feel like Mortal Kombat instead of DC in a worst case scenario.
Not even gonna lie about it. I'm hype for comic books and this is something I've wanted to see done for a long time so no matter how it comes out expect me to disappear to experience the ride.
Not even gonna lie about it. I'm hype for comic books and this is something I've wanted to see done for a long time so no matter how it comes out expect me to disappear to experience the ride.
It's because you are kara cancelling the H teleport after the Hightime into a hyper. You need to have H in your inputs for the hyper to get an easy cancel from the teleport. It works with L+M+H, M+H and L+H but doesn't work with L+M.
JeTmAn81
Member
I don't know man, I'm not digging the art style at all. Why does everything these guys make have to seem "dark" and "extreme"? Doesn't fit DC at all. Honestly, it wouldn't really fit Marvel either. This is more what I'd expect for a Spawn game or something.
First thing that came to mind lol
God damn why are they giving it such a serious tone? It's fucking comic book super heroes fighting each other.
He can be zoned out, even in xf3. He can't zip across the screen in an instant, like Vergil/Magneto/Wesker. And even though he has good zoning, it's not the type of zoning that does huge chip damage like Hawkeye/Storm/Wesker again.
And you guys are right about the DC fighter trailer. It's exactly the same idea as the UMvC3 intro.
JeTmAn81
Member
In XF3, Doom can do some pretty good chip. Also, Wesker isn't actually that good an anchor, despite having some of those qualities which Doom lacks. People are starting to figure out that Dark Wesker isn't all that anymore.
"God's Beard!"
Member
On the other hand, I will avoid the hell out of it because of MK9. Man I hated that game.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I think the costumes are dumb, they look like they are from the Power Rangers movie. Also it probably plays like MK so no thanks.
Nothing to be really worried about though. Wesker's 'jump shoot teleport repeat' strategy does more damage faster, and at any point he can zip across and start some close-up offense. Now, backed with the right assist, Doom can get some work done with a chip strategy. I'm not saying Wesker XF3 is broken, I'm just saying he takes better advantage of the boost compared to Doom.
Because dark, extreme and gritty sells.
It actually looked really over the top. Superman power bombing people from orbit was actually kinda hype.
show me one anchor that doom actually has a good matchup against.
JeTmAn81
Member
Wesker, for one. Doom spits on gunshot attempts, and honestly he can just run away from anything Wesker can do. Super jump, airdash up, flight. Like a boss.
Doom does OK against Akuma and Sentinel who are also common anchors.
Having a top assist play anchor is not a losing strategy by any means. And if Doom gets an XFC against you, you CAN EASILY lose 3 characters to him if you don't read his mix ups/meaty on in coming. He can set you up with his Hidden Missiles. He only needs you to make a couple wrong guesses to win the match.
It's how Abegen wrecks shop with She Hulk. He has a bunch of gimmicks and mix ups in XFLVL3 with the character and squeezes out so many wins it's ridiculous.
Having a top assist play anchor is not a losing strategy by any means. And if Doom gets an XFC against you, you CAN EASILY lose 3 characters to him if you don't read his mix ups/meaty on in coming. He can set you up with his Hidden Missiles. He only needs you to make a couple wrong guesses to win the match.
It's how Abegen wrecks shop with She Hulk. He has a bunch of gimmicks and mix ups in XFLVL3 with the character and squeezes out so many wins it's ridiculous.
Karsticles
Member
He has one team listed there with Doom anchor, and it's not even one that people play. There is an argument for Doom anchor, and it's just that XF2 + Doom anchor is better than XF3 without Doom. Players do this all the time in tournaments. If your team has Wesker/Doom on it, your team order might be Dormammu/Doom/Wesker for the Wesker anchor. But if Doom gets low on health, it's very normal to swap him in the back and use XF2 Wesker with Plasma Beam assist. And that is a reasonably good decision.
It depends on the assist. Doom/Strider is infinitely better than Strider/Doom if we're talking about anchor spots. Doom just can't open people up very well solo. He wears you down. Thus he's not a great user of XF3. It's mostly because he always needs to hit high first, and he doesn't have good left/right cross-ups. So the answer to Doom is pretty much always "block high, pushblock, wait for XF3 to go away".
Haha.
I don't think this changed.
Yeah, it's invincible from frames 14-30. 14 startup, 20 recovery, so you're vulnerable for the first 14 and the last 4.
Did you play MKvsDC?
Pros can make bad anchors look good because their pro opponents are often scared to play lame during the XF3 period. Every time I see someone continue to fight and call assists against an XF3 opponent I just want to scream. Run away. That's all you should be doing. Running away.
Doom has really great matchups against most anchors. That's not what makes Doom a bad anchor. It's that he can't destroy everything in XF3 quickly. He's a character that thrives on patience.
Killa Sasa
Member
Doom anchor is a "you made a mistake if you lost" character. I can see why people do it, but I think it's almost always better to make sure he isn't your anchor. Depends on your style though -- I'm of the opinion that XF2 with an (proper) assist is better than XF3. I love me some x-23 Level 3 XF but I'd always rather have her with XF2 and Hawkeye.
With Doom/Vergil, both orders are pretty strong but once Vergil dies it's not scary at all in either case, hahaha. Doom is only scary with Amaterasu. He's basically a Magneto I'm not scared to block against with good to great assists (so not much of a Magneto
).
Hahaha that was great, delayed DHC's are the best, especially when I have fullscreen few frame projectiles or massive invincibility.
Also, thanks everyone for those Vergil High Rise answers. Makes sense I guess.
With Doom/Vergil, both orders are pretty strong but once Vergil dies it's not scary at all in either case, hahaha. Doom is only scary with Amaterasu. He's basically a Magneto I'm not scared to block against with good to great assists (so not much of a Magneto
).Hahaha that was great, delayed DHC's are the best, especially when I have fullscreen few frame projectiles or massive invincibility.
Also, thanks everyone for those Vergil High Rise answers. Makes sense I guess.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Doom's anchor problem is that he's not so hot against a full team.
Outside of the incoming mixups w/ Anchor Doom it's just hard for him to get a hit.
Outside of the incoming mixups w/ Anchor Doom it's just hard for him to get a hit.
biosnake20
Member
"God's Beard!"
Member
I do this with my xx/Magneto/Phoenix teams. If I'm at 2 or 3 bars and Magneto is running out of health, I'll try to swap in Phoenix because I'll have a better chance of winning with assist+teleport on top of my phoenix movement, and x-factor 2 kills with traps might build me up to 5 bars. I tried it against you a couple times, but I got chipped the fuck out.
EMP Iron Man?
Seems like it does roughly the same damage as the noob smart bombs relaunch that I do.
I respect the style factor though.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Sometimes I feel like my only character is Magneto and I just stick a bunch of other characters on the team :-(
Everyone but him and maybe Phoenix I feel like a dumbass using. Then again, that's what I get for only practicing movement with Magneto...
Everyone but him and maybe Phoenix I feel like a dumbass using. Then again, that's what I get for only practicing movement with Magneto...
Karsticles
Member
I love this game.
I summon the power!
There's something really satisfying about forcing Phoenix to burn X-Factor before she goes Dark because otherwise she won't survive. In the future, I think I'll use the random Stalking Flare -> Luminous Body setups against her more, since there's nothing she can do. Actually, now that I think about it...
Phoenix has 375K health. Two XF1 Stalking Flares do 312K chip damage. DHC to Firebrand, and call Dark Hole on them while they are blocking the Flares and start up the unblockable...I wonder if Firebrand's unblockable would be able to connect after she goes dark?
Then, another thought: TAC Dormammu in, Flame Carpet OTG, X-Factor to snapback, Stalking Flare -> Luminous Body DHC, dead Phoenix whether she X-Factors or doesn't, since if she blocks the flare it will kill her, and if she doesn't Firebrand will.
biosnake20
Member
Does it build the same amount of meter?
"God's Beard!"
Member
I tried to x-factor guard cancel and throw firebrand a couple times, but I'm guessing that doesn't work.
I saw ADDF j.S cr.M into S and basically scoffed at the idea of this being called a "bread and butter".
He claims it can be done mid screen which is interesting although still.. the starter is crap and the practicality of the combo is fairly low. Much more usable in the corner where you don't have to worry about whiffing the launcher.
IM combos scale pretty hard if Smart Bombs are not involved. Adding in more Bombs and Repulsars boosts up the damage tremendously.
Why is this though? Do Smart Bombs and Repulsars not scale or something?
I just wanna chime in and say, this is not a BnB at all. The timing is actually really tight especially after the 2nd relaunch.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Lower on the list of how hard things scale.
From scaling the most to the least is mostly.
L
M
H
S
Specials
Supers
Of course a few things don't scale like Spencer's up grapple.
No, special moves have less damage scaling applied to them than normals. If you have an Iron Man combo which is made up mostly of normals vs an IM combo that has a ton of Bombs and Repulsars... the 2nd combo is almost always going to be the stronger one.
This applies to pretty much every character in the game. If Vergil/Zero could only use their normals in combos, their damage would be subpar. Their ability to link various specials together in a combo boosts their damage up tremendously.
It's why assist based combos are so powerful with IM. Solo he can get like 750K max off of a BnB, maybe higher but that goes towards impractical territory. With assists, he can do Smart Bomb + assist hits (which is also a special move) + Repulsor Blast -> Spread, Smart Bomb + assist hits, Repulsor Blast -> Spread, Smart Bomb -> Proton Cannon. Adding this very simple extender after your BnB will make your combo do over a million damage EASILY.
Oh I already know this, but I didn't know it was that drastic. Especially considering the number of hits in that Iron Man combo. I always thought one of the things that was changed to be more prevalent but was always in Vanilla too was that the number of hits factored more into hitstun and scaling than before.
Fairly noticeable when you see S attacks ending combos for the kills so often.
shaowebb
Member
No because the characters weren't acting like DC characters in the fights and because I didn't want to experience DC and MK together...just DC. They just seemed like MK characters in cosplay. Plus yeah Flash was busted bad. MK was fun though and this seems to be gearing up toward being designed around complimenting how each character should fight in DC instead of how they would fight in MK.
At least so far it seems that way. If it turns into just MK-style without adhering towards thoughts on flight, beams and other DC staples in action I'll be really disappointed as thats not fair to the source material. Either way though an entirely DC roster is enough to sell me on this because in this one thing I'll be a complete fanboy. I really like DC that much.
Because Unreal Engine.
part 2 of Viscant's team tier list - http://www.brokentier.com/blogs/news/6103552-viscants-umvc3-team-tier-list-part-2-of-3
Killa Sasa
Member
LMAO @ using Wesker for his assist.
Wesker's assist isn't used in the neutral. For 90% of characters, it's a combo extender assist. Any assist in the game can extend combos. If you have Wesker at the back, then you are playing anchor Wesker.
If you want to be playing Wesker but also want to use his assist, play him 2nd like on Noel's team of Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma.
I say the exact same for Vergil. His assist is more useful in the neutral but there is no reason why you can't have him at 1st or 2nd spot. If you put him 3rd then that means you are banking on his anchor capabilities.
Wesker's assist isn't used in the neutral. For 90% of characters, it's a combo extender assist. Any assist in the game can extend combos. If you have Wesker at the back, then you are playing anchor Wesker.
If you want to be playing Wesker but also want to use his assist, play him 2nd like on Noel's team of Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma.
I say the exact same for Vergil. His assist is more useful in the neutral but there is no reason why you can't have him at 1st or 2nd spot. If you put him 3rd then that means you are banking on his anchor capabilities.
JeTmAn81
Member
Anything that encourages people to play Wesker in his best position, 1st, is just fine with me. Dude is godlike with a beam and/or some lockdown.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I think he's best in the 2nd spot.
Yah but he listed Joker as a player to watch, we watched Joker. And I laughed.
Eduardo Pérez ‏@PR_Balrog
I decided i'll only use spencer against vergil/strider and wolverine/dante/vergil for everything else and the RR team for sentinel
3 Different teams is kinda nuts.
With Vergil and Wolvie this is true. But with Spencer he still has combos where hes forced to dhc if he already has used up the ground bounce. Big reason why i run Spencer/Task/Wesker and not Spencer/Wesk/Task
but ill probably scrap that team and go back and figure out something else now.
eh? how?
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