Support NeoGAF

[Dahbomb]

I honestly think F. Champ would do a lot better if he dropped Phoenix. She just wasn't putting in work for him like the other team was. There are too many Phoenix counters out there right now. Maybe if Capcom fixed the TAC glitches she would be more viable.

That's what I thought too but then he started bodying people with regular Jean. Jean with LVL3XF is still way too scary and if you can eliminate one or two of their teammates it also takes out the number of anti-Phoenix tech on their team.

@ Mo the Hawk: I would replace Combofiend with FChamp.

 

[scytheavatar]

I honestly think F. Champ would do a lot better if he dropped Phoenix. She just wasn't putting in work for him like the other team was. There are too many Phoenix counters out there right now. Maybe if Capcom fixed the TAC glitches she would be more viable.

When she's putting in work, it means the player using her isn't a very good Phoenix player. The power of Phoenix comes not just from what she can do as Dark Phoenix, but from how just having her in your team breaks people's heart and forces them out of their comfort zone.

 

[Grecco]

I cant see SKizonic being better than anybody. I definetly take ETR over him jmo.


and i think Justin will take Evo, hes still adjusting to his Spencer team, but its the first time hes really tier whored in Marvel 3. (Wolvie Akuma was broken but Pheonix/Dante broken?) i think if he gets used to that team he wins it.

 

[Karsticles]

Posting some thoughts on the Champ vs. ChrisG matches; I partially wrote it to help people understand how Dormammu isn't a "zomg hard counter" to Morrigan like GFAQs posters think, which is leading most posters to the wild conclusion that he now needs a nerf to his rushdown game:
If Dormammu started the match against Morrigan, I think ChrisG would have done better. ChrisG did poorly for 4 reasons:
1) Hidden Missiles.
2) Magneto on point (EMD locks down ChrisG's own Hidden Missiles).
3) ChrisG started Morrigan on point for 2/3 of his losses for some bizarre reason (i.e. she never got to DHC in safely).
4) F. Champ DHCed Dormammu in through Magnetic Shockwave every time, starting him off with full screen control.

It's really Champ's whole team. Anyone who thinks it's all about Dormammu hasn't any experience playing Dormammu. Dormammu retains momentum well when backed by Hidden Missiles. Champ was ensuring that he could establish that momentum. It's all about the Doom assist, though. Dormammu can't retain that kind of screen presence with any other assist. When you have two zoning teams with Hidden Missiles, whoever establishes screen control gets to keep it. This is why ChrisG always DHCs Morrigan in after using Photon Array to lock the screen down. Champ used Magnetic Shockwave for the same purpose.

 

[GuardianE]

Posting some thoughts on the Champ vs. ChrisG matches; I partially wrote it to help people understand how Dormammu isn't a "zomg hard counter" to Morrigan like GFAQs posters think, which is leading most posters to the wild conclusion that he now needs a nerf to his rushdown game:
If Dormammu started the match against Morrigan, I think ChrisG would have done better. ChrisG did poorly for 4 reasons:
1) Hidden Missiles.
2) Magneto on point (EMD locks down ChrisG's own Hidden Missiles).
3) ChrisG started Morrigan on point for 2/3 of his losses for some bizarre reason (i.e. she never got to DHC in safely).
4) F. Champ DHCed Dormammu in through Magnetic Shockwave every time, starting him off with full screen control.

It's really Champ's whole team. Anyone who thinks it's all about Dormammu hasn't any experience playing Dormammu. Dormammu retains momentum well when backed by Hidden Missiles. Champ was ensuring that he could establish that momentum. It's all about the Doom assist, though. Dormammu can't retain that kind of screen presence with any other assist. When you have two zoning teams with Hidden Missiles, whoever establishes screen control gets to keep it. This is why ChrisG always DHCs Morrigan in after using Photon Array to lock the screen down. Champ used Magnetic Shockwave for the same purpose.

lol, people are calling for Dormammu nerfs based on that?

Good insight into the match. I think Filipino Champ really tried to prepare for Chris G. He had a gameplan and stuck with it. Doom is really the unsung hero on both these teams.

 

[DD-11]

nevermind, its at 8:58 here: http://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky/b/321014662


edit: yeah, thats basically the best marvel set i've ever seen. the morrigan 1 hit kill is morrigan combo->marlinpie's doom

So good. Love Spooky on the mic too.

 

[Azure J]

lol, people are calling for Dormammu nerfs based on that?

Reminds me of the official theory patch thread on SRK where someone mentioned they want Dark Matter to Teleport taken from Dorm. I was just like NOPE.gif.

 

[Karsticles]

Reminds me of the official theory patch thread on SRK where someone mentioned they want Dark Matter to Teleport taken from Dorm. I was just like NOPE.gif.

I also remember some people suggesting that Dark Matter be cancelable in Vanilla, and everyone was like "Capcom would have to be stupid to do that". The internet is a funny place.

Can you imagine if Flame Carpet persisted on hit still, though?

 

[Azure J]

Or if it had the same hitstun. Dammit man, I really wonder why Dorm couldn't have gotten Flame Carpet and Dark Matter as assists. Shit would be fucking hilarity.

 

[Karsticles]

Or if it had the same hitstun. Dammit man, I really wonder why Dorm couldn't have gotten Flame Carpet and Dark Matter as assists. Shit would be fucking hilarity.

The hitstun has stayed the same. Why do you think otherwise? Is it maybe because the placement has changed, so some of your stuff that worked before no longer does?

One of my favorite things to do with Flame Carpet is just do j.S, c.LH (blocked), Flame Carpet, c.L, repeat ad infinitum. Your opponent has to pushblock to get you out of there. I had a friend hold up and he never got to jump as long as I linked it right. Some people think you'll just start doing something else for them to counter, but I just keep laying the Flame Carpets down after c.L, and after 2-3 I call Firebrand to do Hellfire H, during which I dash forward to my opponent and keep repeating the series. I actually took a Magneto down by 400K life because of this one, he just kept sitting there, sometimes blocking and sometimes trying to jump out of it and getting hit in the process.

Dormammu definitely should have gotten Flame Carpet and Dark Matter as assists. I would definitely think about running a team other than Firebrand/Dormammu/Morrigan, and I'd probably have to if they got rid of Dark Hole, since Flame Carpet isn't very useful for Firebrand and Dark Matter would just use up his much needed Bon Voyage wallbounce for relaunches.

Morrigan would have a blast with Dark Matter, though. Learn to combo into it, and then just do Soul Fist series to bounce your opponent around afterward. From testing with other wall bounces, she could probably do something like c.LMH, f.H, j.MHS, s.M (Dark Matter), c.MH (Dark Matter hits), Soul Drain, fly-cancel, air dash forward, j.S as Soul Drain hits. That would be a thing of beauty.

Flame Carpet for Morrigan 20 frame overheads would be delicious. Easy unblockables and would give her a stronger zoning game. I'm honestly not sure which of the two I would use, or who my third would become. I would probably try to play Morrigan on point if Dormammu had a good assist for her. I think I would start anchoring Dormammu, but would often DHC him in through Morrigan for the Dark Harmonizer synergy. I love XF3 Dormammu, but his assists are just too ass for it.

Teams I would consider running with Dark Matter assist:
Wolverine/Morrigan/Dormammu
Akuma/Morrigan/Dormammu
Amaterasu/Morrigan/Dormammu
Skrull/Morrigan/Dormammu (if Dark Matter makes Meteor Smash safe)
Storm/Morrigan/Dormammu
Phoenix/Morrigan/Dormammu (hey, I'd have teleport cross-ups now!)
Strange/Morrigan/Dormammu (Strange really needs an assist)

With Flame Carpet assist, I think we'd see more Dante/Dormammu, since he could set up the Wesker unblockable.

Damn it Capcom, make this change! Get rid of the shitty assists when characters have good options.

Edit: And if I had tracking Purification, I'm pretty certain that my team would be Sentinel/Morrigan/Dormammu. Some old Blackheart-style Sentinel would make my day. Morrigan is pretty great at making Sentinel Force safe, too.

 

[Dahbomb]

As long as Justin has Frank instead of Akuma, he isn't tier whoring quite yet.

 

[Azure J]

The hitstun has stayed the same. Why do you think otherwise? Is it maybe because the placement has changed, so some of your stuff that worked before no longer does?

I think I might have used the wrong term, but doesn't the Ultimate carpet push folks out whereas before they stood in place and ate the hits?

 

[SolarKnight]

Yeah, wrong term. Is there a term for that though? If there is I don't know :x

 

[Karsticles]

I think I might have used the wrong term, but doesn't the Ultimate carpet push folks out whereas before they stood in place and ate the hits?

Naw, it was just people not understanding the placement change in the pre-release versions. It works the same as it did before.

What happened was people were trying their Flame Carpet OTG relaunches, and players were falling out of them. This made people think that Flame Carpet relaunches no longer worked, but really it's just that the flame appears further out from Dormammu now, so you have to tinker with the timing a bit. Typical overreaction.

On the note of funny placement, though, I wish Dark Hole would get changed somehow for corners. If you've placed your opponent in a blockstring in a corner, Dark Hole tends to appear too far to connect with your opponent. It's very annoying, because I can't set up unblockables for Firebrand in corners off of a blockstring.

 

[WesternHeretic]

You know I've noticed something about Chris G versus Justin at UFGT8 and Combo + Champ at ECT4.

He's is known for air throwing but when he has played those 3? He gets air thrown...

And really when it comes to air throwing with Magneto Champ is just the best. I think Fanatiq might have drastically improved his air throwing game after his stay at the FGTV house. Maybe that's why he was throwing Ray Ray left and right.

 

[mr. puppy]

so guys, whats the best anchor for that Spencer/Vergil nonsense?

 

[Solune]

Or if it had the same hitstun. Dammit man, I really wonder why Dorm couldn't have gotten Flame Carpet and Dark Matter as assists. Shit would be fucking hilarity.

I wish Assist hitstun was back to Vanilla, it sucks because alot of characters have "THAT" move as combo extension so you have to sacrifice one utility for the other.

so guys, whats the best anchor for that Spencer/Vergil nonsense?

In my honest opinion, Magneto. But really, anyone who helps both Spencer/Vergil get in (i.e Doom but you hate Doom anchor =p.) Or anyone who is self-sufficient. I'm gonna try it tonight but Magneto covers both of these requirements. Yipes team is also solid with Hawkeye.

 

[Karsticles]

I wish Assist hitstun was back to Vanilla, it sucks because alot of characters have "THAT" move as combo extension so you have to sacrifice one utility for the other.

I agree, I don't know why they changed this. There are still really long combos in the game, so what was the point of that change? Personally, it just ruined Dormammu's relaunch synergy with a lot of characters in my experience. I used to be able to do Flame Carpet + Tatsu, Dark Matter, Dark Hole, Chaotic Flame. In Ultimate, I would have been able to cancel that Dark Matter into a teleport for a full relaunch, but nooooo, now I can't get anything off of the tatsu except for Chaotic Flame.

In my honest opinion, Magneto. But really, anyone who helps both Spencer/Vergil get in (i.e Doom but you hate Doom anchor =p.) Or anyone who is self-sufficient. I'm gonna try it tonight but Magento covers both of these requirements. Yipes team is also solid with Hawkeye.

I think the real answer is "any character with a projectile assist that you don't mind anchoring". Magneto is probably the best option among those, though.

 

[Grecco]

As long as Justin has Frank instead of Akuma, he isn't tier whoring quite yet.

We sorta discussed this in the ECT thread but still Shopping Cart >tatsu

so guys, whats the best anchor for that Spencer/Vergil nonsense?

Best Anchor? Or best assist?

 

[Dahbomb]

so guys, whats the best anchor for that Spencer/Vergil nonsense?

Magneto, Arthur or Akuma for sure. Hawkeye, Iron Man, Doom and Taskmaster work too if you don't mind playing them anchor.

 

[Azure J]

I've been wanting to do two posts recently based around all the theory tech I can think of for my team as well as putting out a new idea or two from casual analysis of well placing player's teams.

Right now, I'm trying to start doing more of the following:

- LMH block strings and depending on who's on my team, either call Amaterasu Cold Shots to extend the duration of the block string while I instigate with teleport high-lows or cancel into Weasel Shot while calling Felicia or Strider. If the opponent is anywhere near off the ground, use enough shots to keep them there until you can drop and teleport before Strider catches them. If they're on the ground, Felicia low assist through the blockstun to feel them up and catch them with the teleport afterwards.

- Using Twister/Tempest while simultaneously calling assists to get them in safe during projectile wars.

- Calling Strider assist simultaneously with a Jam Session to convert the hit into something decent.

- Hysterics into Devil Trigger into Teleport into Vortex. Holy shit, this sequence is so derpy and it's beautiful to juggle someone on opening with two Vortexes into a j.S. This then leads to:

-- Turning all pickups with Cold Shower into a Grapple reset. Solves the problem of panic mode OTGs scaling Dante's combos badly and in good situations turns everything into a KO'd character. If I have Felicia, well everyone knows about the high low unblockable, but if I have Amaterasu, it's pretty much a two second guessing game until Cold Shots lock down is over.

- Crystal xx Devil Trigger on incoming. I really don't know why I wasn't using Crystal more for incoming stuff but man it's just so good.

I really should be coming up with much more than this, but really, I can never articulate what I want to do in games like this even if I knew them moments before doing it. My entire game is reads and spacing based. It's because of this why I'm trying to put more time into creating some custom setups and also optimizing my Amaterasu and Strider. Strider's coming along well though.

The latter sprung back to mind when I began wonder if Marvel is the kind of game that rewards a team built around one (think Viscant's Vanilla team) or a "handles everything, masters nothing" team. If there was a third spot, it would be for teams so intrinsically synergetic that any combination of the three characters works, but literally the only team from Vanilla to now that would get that distinction imo is Combofiend's SheHulk/Task/Spencer team.

 

[Bizazedo]

I want to play Marvel and I just got Diablo 3. It's very painful.

 

[Uncle AJ]

I want to play Marvel and I just got Diablo 3. It's very painful.

You're me from 2 weeks ago!

 

[enzo_gt]

Never seen this before but stumbled upon it from another thread... Dieminion's opinions on Dr. Strange. Keep in mind, 3 months ago.

 

[JeTmAn81]

I've been wanting to do two posts recently based around all the theory tech I can think of for my team as well as putting out a new idea or two from casual analysis of well placing player's teams.

Right now, I'm trying to start doing more of the following:

- LMH block strings and depending on who's on my team, either call Amaterasu Cold Shots to extend the duration of the block string while I instigate with teleport high-lows or cancel into Weasel Shot while calling Felicia or Strider. If the opponent is anywhere near off the ground, use enough shots to keep them there until you can drop and teleport before Strider catches them. If they're on the ground, Felicia low assist through the blockstun to feel them up and catch them with the teleport afterwards.

Do you find yourself able to get into these much? Oddly for a Dante player I find it hard to get an opponent into a solid block string without either teleporting first or airdashing into a j.M/J.H. I feel like I should be able to space things properly by just throwing out my normals from the ground as they approach, but in practice I don't really end up doing that.

- Using Twister/Tempest while simultaneously calling assists to get them in safe during projectile wars.

I need to try this.

- Calling Strider assist simultaneously with a Jam Session to convert the hit into something decent.

This is pretty awesome. It works quite well on Zero and Spider-Man or any character that likes to live in the air. The only problem is that starting the combo with Jam Session scales the combo like crazy so you don't get much damage. However, I bet you could do something which would give you enough time after the pickup for your low-hitting assist to become available and then do the Grapple reset to get real damage out of it.

- Crystal xx Devil Trigger on incoming. I really don't know why I wasn't using Crystal more for incoming stuff but man it's just so good.

What are the best options after the Crystal is blocked? I know they're in blockstun but I'm not really thinking of much you could do that you couldn't do after an Acid Rain as well.

 

[Azure J]

Do you find yourself able to get into these much? Oddly for a Dante player I find it hard to get an opponent into a solid block string without either teleporting first or airdashing into a j.M/J.H. I feel like I should be able to space things properly by just throwing out my normals from the ground as they approach, but in practice I don't really end up doing that.

Not often enough, but I have a bad tendency of going LMH-Stinger-BC Volcano and jump cancelling it against people if they don't Guard Cancel me before I get that panic mode jump cancel for safety.

I'm just trying to think it up then apply it more so I'm not caught sitting on my hands in moments I can make more advantageous for myself.

I need to try this.

You have no idea it is to smuggle Amaterasu into the Twister, cancel into DT and teleport with the swiftness so you have a safe turret handling things (re: assists) on the ground while you take care of the point character with shenanigans. One of my favorite moments ever was calling Strider into a Twister which I cancelled into DT and teleported out of so fast, the other person didn't even see Strider assist called and jumped headlong into a Vajira.

This is pretty awesome. It works quite well on Zero and Spider-Man or any character that likes to live in the air. The only problem is that starting the combo with Jam Session scales the combo like crazy so you don't get much damage. However, I bet you could do something which would give you enough time after the pickup for your low-hitting assist to become available and then do the Grapple reset to get real damage out of it.

Yeah, it's pretty much an extension of my anti-Zero stuff that I worked into an almost flowchart like manner for combo starters. Basically, the first layer is that setup. If they block the Jam Session, within the last few frames of the move if I have the meter or want to blow X-Factor, I use it and I immediately teleport beside them or in the case of being really deceptive, I'll cancel and just do a few dash unders to catch them slipping. From the round, if they block everything, they're usually out of the guard stun low enough to the ground that I can go up for a grab before they have a chance to throw out anything particularly high priority.

Any combo started like this will be scaled to shit and full of hitstun though, so Grapple reset, even to simple stuff after the tech is a must.

What are the best options after the Crystal is blocked? I know they're in blockstun but I'm not really thinking of much you could do that you couldn't do after an Acid Rain as well.

Really, Crystal is a "stay there and let me think" maneuver. It's the closest thing to Zero's s.H he has and give so much advantage that you can really go in for mix ups if they're blocking it well. I wish if I had a better understanding of the time frame for the move, because I'd certainly try to put out both an Acid Rain and Crystal for incoming if I knew I could get them locked down into both.

I have to say though, I really feel like I'm enjoying the progression I've made for myself in this game so far. I was feeling a bit wishy washy wondering what I hadn't tried yet and started experimenting with teams because I wanted that "easy in" at times. Playing like that though, I never really lliked the setups I had either because the teams I made weren't "me" per se or included a character I wasn't grasping at the time. Playing now, I've become more of a screen control type of Dante putting up roadblocks when necessary until I can convert something into a Vanilla long Dante combo for that real Sparda Son damage. Do I wish I could have my cake and eat it too at times? Yea. Even so, I love my team and see myself going in deep with it in the future.

Which reminds me, I want to take a look at some Ryan Hunter stuff soon. He was doing Dante + Ammy for a good long time and I still feel like when I take Amaterasu out of baby mode, the team is going to become some scary shit.

 

[Dahbomb]

I want to play Marvel and I just got Diablo 3. It's very painful.

You are going to be back to playing Marvel once you hit the wall.

Guaranteed unless in that time patch 1.03 rolls around.

 

[Dahbomb]

Never seen this before but stumbled upon it from another thread... Dieminion's opinions on Dr. Strange. Keep in mind, 3 months ago.

This is funny to watch now that Dieminion has actually placed top 8 with Strange on more than one occasion.

Strange is no where near bottom tier. They are right in the fact that he needs a team built around him and Haggar is a good partner for him. Strange doesn't get lamed out, he does the laming himself.

And FChamp has Strange placed somewhere in Upper Mid tier. His tier list has been the most accurate of the top players.

Edit: Sorry for DP

 

[Frantic]

Here's a bit of Dante tech that I've known of for a while that I find to be rather effective. Million Carats > Devil Trigger against an incoming character to obscure mixups with the ice and post-super flash.

Some of the ones shown aren't all that useful, but it's very hard to see what the hell Dante is doing through all the shit filling the screen.

 

[Karsticles]

Here's a bit of Dante tech that I've known of for a while that I find to be rather effective. Million Carats > Devil Trigger against an incoming character to obscure mixups with the ice and post-super flash.

Some of the ones shown aren't all that useful, but it's very hard to see what the hell Dante is doing through all the shit filling the screen.

It's neat, but I have two thoughts:
1) Two bars for a 50/50 mix-up that will lead into a combo which builds no meter is expensive.

2) Can't the Carats just be pushblocked? Edit: Ah, I replied just as the video went into that.

 

[Azure J]

Here's a bit of Dante tech that I've known of for a while that I find to be rather effective. Million Carats > Devil Trigger against an incoming character to obscure mixups with the ice and post-super flash.

Some of the ones shown aren't all that useful, but it's very hard to see what the hell Dante is doing through all the shit filling the screen.

The thing about the ice making it hard to see is basically why I was using Crystal to begin with, but this is also good to know. Million Carats, y u so good?

 

[Frantic]

1) Two bars for a 50/50 mix-up that will lead into a combo which builds no meter is expensive.

Well, it is somewhat steep, but generally Dante is going to burn two bars to set up a solo mixup on incoming after a snapback. Acid Rain isn't safe after a snapback so he needs Devil Trigger to make it safe, and it won't even be timed properly for the best mixups. Crystal works nicely as a meterless option if the character doesn't have a double jump or airdash, but most character that are worth snapping in have one of those two so it's not the best option over all.

I don't really use this all that often since it does cost a lot, and I have assists suited for incoming mixups, but it's probably one of Dante's best solo options after a snapback. It's especially stupid in XF3.

 

[Dahbomb]

Guys post your EC vs WC vs Rest of the World roster for the kicks. Here are my picks:

West Coast

Justin "Marvelous" Wong (Captain)
Fanatiq
PRBalrog
FChamp
Combofiend


East Coast

Chris G aka Godlike/Genius/G-sus (Captain)
Marlinpie
Yipes
Noel "Best in the World" Brown
RayRay

Rest of the World

Kusoru (Captain)
Zak Bennet
Chou
Abegen
Rei-Chan

 

[Azure J]

Justin "Marvelous" Wong (Captain)
Fanatiq
PRBalrog
FChamp
Combofiend


East Coast

Chris G aka Godlike/Genius/G-sus/Grip (Captain)
Marlinpie
Yipes
Josh Wong
RayRay

Rest of the World

Kusoru (Captain)
Zak Bennet
Chou
Abegen
Rei-Chan

I feel like the list is perfect with just one switch. :lol

Edit: Anyone know whatever happened to Richard Nyguen? I need some stupid sexy Dante to watch and learn from. It's already bad enough that I can't find any footage of Ryan Hunter's Dante/Ammy stuff from Vanilla...

 

[Karsticles]

Guys post your EC vs WC vs Rest of the World roster for the kicks. Here are my picks:

West Coast

Justin "Marvelous" Wong (Captain)
Fanatiq
PRBalrog
FChamp
Combofiend


East Coast

Chris G aka Godlike/Genius/G-sus (Captain)
Marlinpie
Yipes
Noel "Best in the World" Brown
RayRay

Rest of the World

Kusoru (Captain)
Zak Bennet
Chou
Abegen
Rei-Chan

ChrisG and Noel Brown aren't on good terms though, right? I remember ChrisG being left out of the last ECvWC.

 

[enzo_gt]

ChrisG and Noel Brown aren't on good terms though, right? I remember ChrisG being left out of the last ECvWC.

They're cool now, and have been for a while IIRC.

 

[WesternHeretic]

I feel like the list is perfect with just one switch. :lol

Edit: Anyone know whatever happened to Richard Nyguen? I need some stupid sexy Dante to watch and learn from. It's already bad enough that I can't find any footage of Ryan Hunter's Dante/Ammy stuff from Vanilla...

Richard Nguyen is still playing...
Dante, Vergil, Nova
Spider Man, Dante, Vergil
Dante, Vergil, Frank West
Hulk Dante, Vergil

and of course now...

Zero, Dante, Vergil

The problem with Richard is that he still can't block. And we rarely see him at #TRB because he usually get top 16 or top 32, but rarely in the top 4. With KOF also being stream we only get to see like 1st round of marvel + grand finals.

DahBomb: My list would be...

West

Justin
Combo
Champ
Pr Balrog
Fanatiq / Cl0ckw0rk / Shady K (any of the three will do). Shady is kind of like Floe that he's terrible in tournaments but non tourney + long set he was one of the best. I even see him destroy Viscant and Cl0ckw0rk over and over during Vanilla. Not to mention slapping Fanatiq, and Pr Balrog around in Ultimate. Going head to head with Champ and even at times having Champ's number all at the FGTV house.

East
Chris G
Marlin
Yipes
Josh Wong
The last spot I feel like such a toss up. On any given day Noel Brown, Flocker, Ray Ray, or Masta CJ can be totally on their A game or their shit game.


World


Same as what you had.

 

[Karsticles]

You might want to remove a certain "R" word in your post WesternHeretic.

 

[WesternHeretic]

You might want to remove a certain "R" word in your post WesternHeretic.

Eh... took me a while to find which R you were talking about. I actually thought it was PR Balrog at first....lol.

P.S I've seen that word use in thread titles before...

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I thought you meant Richard Ngyuen.

 

[Karsticles]

Eh... took me a while to find which R you were talking about. I actually thought it was PR Balrog at first....lol.

P.S I've seen that word use in thread titles before...

Have you seen it used in that context? Anyway, I just thought it was safer to have it removed. Especially with threads about male dominance in gaming culture popping up frequently.

 

[Karsticles]

I want to know what you all think about some proposed buffs to Firebrand (yes, I do think he needs buffs when compared to characters like Magneto):

-Hell Spitfire H's startup time and recovery is halved.
-Hell Spitfire H no longer leaves Firebrand prone when done in the air.
-Hell Spitfire H no longer disappears when Firebrand takes damage.
-Hell Spitfire L replaces Demon Charge M as an assist.
-After a Hell Dive H/M, Firebrand's direction auto-corrects (it's dumb that I can't Hell Claw after swooping past my opponent)
-Demon Charge H is now Demon Charge H (charge) as an assist (i.e. he now has his unblockable as an assist, complete with the massive chargeup time)
-Flight (qcb.S) is removed.
-qcb.S now performs Hell Rise, which swoops Firebrand higher into the air (basically an inverse Hell Dive L - I think it's dumb that Firebrand can't fly higher if he wants to - every character with an air dash can, but not Firebrand?)
-All Hell Dive moves now place Firebrand in auto-flight after use; auto-flight has no startup time
-Hell Elevator and Hell Claw no longer have flight startup time, but still have auto-flight.
-Hell Elevator can now be canceled into other specials and command normals, just as the Hell Dive moves can
-Firebrand's total time in auto-flight after leaving the ground is limited to 120 frames so as to prevent continuous Hell Rise moves (qcb.S)
-Dark Fire now causes a soft knockdown (I can't even DHC into Chaotic Flame from it, which is really annoying)
-Chaos Tide's helper summon now performs its H swooping attack regardless of which button you input - the L and M attacks have been removed (completely useless); the hyper now consumes 2 bars of meter (I think this should be the standard for all of the current level 3 utility hypers, but I am worried that it would become spammable now, since Firebrand can gain meter during this hyper)
-Luminous Body now upgrades Firebrand's fireball attacks along with its previous benefits. Hellfire L/M's fireball increases to 8 projectile hit points and doubles in width (roughly to MvC2 MM's uncharged blaster size) - damage increased to 120,000 from 100,000, and Hellfire H's fire is now Firebrand's height and travels double its normal distance; I don't see these changes having particularly strong effects on Firebrand's point game, they're more about giving him good assist options a la Zero

Thoughts? I know this might sound like a bit much, but I continue to think "what does he need to get picked over Magneto?", and it turns out that it's a lot. Currently Magneto has better hypers, assists, screen control, damage, and mix-ups. Truly, the only thing Firebrand has over Magneto is a guaranteed unblockable setup. I don't think a character should ever be based off of such a flimsy gimmick, particularly because while being able to 300% teams off of a hit is definitely an asset, it's not an interesting one for either the player or his opponent (who wants to sit through 60 seconds of 400,000 damage combos followed by snapbacks?). It's the perfect example of a bad gimmick. I don't think Firebrand's unblockable should be removed, but I do think Tenderizer should be slightly changed so that this option is rarely present.

More importantly, I think this makes for a fun, more filled-out Firebrand. The current character feels like an unfinished concept, much like Dormammu was in Vanilla, when he had silly restrictions like having the only soft knockdown ground throw in the game and not being able to attack out of a down-back or up-back air dash. It's these small tweaks that made him into a more fun character to play.

 

[Dahbomb]

Firebrand already has the one tool to get picked over Magneto, it's the unblockable. Plus a vertical dive kick, a horizontal dive kick, a utility hyper and an insane close up game. It's not just that he can 300% you, it's that he can put you in a ridiculously shitty position after he touches you greatly increases his chance to touch you again.

And seriously if we start buffing every character to Magneto status it will never end. My buff list for Iron Man to be at Magneto level would be twice as big as that. I don't subscribe to this character envy nonsense especially since you can pick both characters on the same team.

The buff to his LVL3 is acceptable as are the buffs to his Spitfire H, Dark Fire and his assist change. The unblockable being an assist is just lol, that will never happen. Rest of the changes are a fairly significant overhaul, too difficult to say what that would end up doing. Like the fireball changes in LB, that's a pretty significant buff on a hyper that builds meter. It's very close to becoming a MorriDoom analogue considering how fast Firebrand is able to dish out Fireballs and the size of them with those proposed changes.

Also... how about buffing Chun Li to C Viper level? That would be pretty funny.

 

[Karsticles]

Firebrand already has the one tool to get picked over Magneto, it's the unblockable. Plus a vertical dive kick, a horizontal dive kick, a utility hyper and an insane close up game. It's not just that he can 300% you, it's that he can put you in a ridiculously shitty position after he touches you greatly increases his chance to touch you again.

Hell Claw (vertical dive kick) is really overrated.
1) It has huge startup time for a dive kick. (18 frames to Wolverine's 8)
2) You need to hit confirm off of it intelligently into Hell Dive L, which kills you if it was blocked.
3) A blocked Hell Claw is really awkward. You pretty much can't do anything except for another Hell Claw.
4) A successful Hell Claw uses up his ground bounce, reducing his combo damage.

I think Magneto's tridash j.S is better than Hell Claw in every way. I'd much rather have that than Firebrand's shitty dive kick. I can't do fancy stuff like superjump past my opponent and then airdash down-back into j.S to mess with them. Once Firebrand goes past his opponent, he can't do anything reasonable but Bon Voyage or land.

Firebrand's close up game isn't anything to write home about. Once he's on the ground, he's on the ground. He doesn't have high-low mix-ups, his normals are ridiculously small, and he doesn't have any safe way to sustain pressure. He can't even combo an opponent via overhead unless he's in Luminous Body, and that uses up Bon Voyage right away, which scales the combo to like 400K damage max for 1 bar (plus the 1 bar you already used for Luminous Body). What close up game are you talking about? He only has the unblockable. His resets aren't anything to write home about.

Firebrand's hypers are ass outside of Luminous Body, and his priority is so weak that it's more of a requirement than a boon. Bon Voyage is undoubtedly amazing, though again it scales combos horribly.

And seriously if we start buffing every character to Magneto status it will never end. My buff list for Iron Man to be at Magneto level would be twice as big as that. I don't subscribe to this character envy nonsense especially since you can pick both characters on the same team.

This is nonsense. It's not character envy, it's just good practice. Every character should try to be put on a level playing field. Magneto is one of the best characters in the game, and should be a shining example of what all characters can aspire to. And it's not just Magneto. Firebrand is out of sync with the top tiers.

The buff to his LVL3 is acceptable as are the buffs to his Spitfire H, Dark Fire and his assist change. The unblockable being an assist is just lol, that will never happen. Rest of the changes are a fairly significant overhaul, too difficult to say what that would end up doing. Like the fireball changes in LB, that's a pretty significant buff on a hyper that builds meter. It's very close to becoming a MorriDoom analogue considering how fast Firebrand is able to dish out Fireballs and the size of them with those proposed changes.

Also... how about buffing Chun Li to C Viper level? That would be pretty funny.

Firebrand can't hit you from behind with fireballs, and thus he could never be a Morridoom. Firebrand is an 850K health character. Lets list some characters around that health value and slightly above it (900K):

Dr. Strange
Magneto
Storm
Nova
Deadpool
Hawkeye
Dante
C. Viper
Vergil
Zero

Can you honestly look at this list and say that the toolset Firebrand has is roughly on par with the tools these other characters have?

Edit: I also want Capcom to explain what the hell Demon Missile L and M are for. Seriously, what the hell are they for?! I can't think of another character with a special move that useless.

 

[Dahbomb]

Why was health brought in? Why not talk about how Chun Li has 850K and she has shittier tools than C Viper who has 900K? This is Capcom we are talking about here, not much thought is put into their health distribution or tools.

Firebrand can't hit you from behind with fireballs, and thus he could never be a Morridoom. Firebrand is an 850K health character. Lets list some characters around that health value and slightly above it (900K):

Dr. Strange
Magneto
Storm
Nova
Deadpool
Hawkeye
Dante
C. Viper
Vergil
Zero

Can you honestly look at this list and say that the toolset Firebrand has is roughly on par with the tools these other characters have?

Firebrand is roughly on par or better than half of those characters. Only characters he isn't better than on list are the Magneto, Vergil, Zero, Viper and Dante. Dr Strange has a bunch of tools but mostly pretty shitty. Hawkeye has no where near the mobility of Firebrand nor the same up close game or approaches. Nova is so linear in design with a bunch of gimmicks. Deadpool has very limited air game and a situational teleport.

You forgot to list the other low health characters in Firebrand's health vicinity like X-23, Jill and Chun Li that neither have his air mobility nor his fireball options yet Firebrand outclasses Chun Li even in the mix up and low hitting department.

Here's my buff list for Iron Man so that people can pick him over Magneto and Doom:

*Air dash down/forward increased in start up
*Air dash down/back also buffed accordingly
*Smart Bombs have more hit stun at the start of the combo like in Vanilla but reduce to Ultimate status at max scaling
*L/M/H Smart Bombs in the air have different trajectories
*Smart Bombs in the air can be held down/charged up. Charged up smart bombs drop slower and more in numbers with much higher durability (MVC2 style)
*Iron Man gets his Knee Dive move back. Mapped to d+M, causes hard knockdown on hit
*Iron Man has a proper wave dash and can cancel out of it anytime
*Flight movement increased
*Can refly as long as he hasn't used up his fly time yet
*Unibeam starts up faster on all versions
*Unibeam as an assist comes out behind the point character
*Cr.H has faster start up
*Hit stun on all of Iron Man's j.H attacks increased but reduce to Ultimate status at max scaling
*Proton Cannon has less recovery frames
*Proton Cannon can now be aimed upwards there is no longer an extra input for it to get the other version
*New Warmachine missiles hyper. Can be comboed off of Repulsor Blast, does a lot of damage if all the missiles hit and is safe on block or from DHC because if someone tries to hit Iron Man the down coming missiles will hit them. The missile pack has a hit box so anyone near Iron Man will get popped straight up and eat all missiles (and to prevent people from throwing him out of it)
*Iron Avenger's vertical hit box improved and has more invincibility
*J.M has a better posterior hit box and is now the cross up move of choice for Iron Man
*Launcher has a better horizontal hit box so he can more easily confirm off of cr.M
*St.H priority increased to match length of cr.M
*Smart Bomb assist removed, replaced with instant Repulsor Spread assist. Iron man basically comes out and does an instant Repulsor Spread to get the opponent off and end in a hard knockdown
*Gets his double jump back
*Health buffed to 1 million to match Doom's


Problem?

I also want Capcom to explain what the hell Demon Missile L and M are for. Seriously, what the hell are they for?

The Japanese were using the forward moving one to set up a cross up with Rapid Slash. He would go through the opponent and while going through they will get hit by Rapid Slash as it was a cross up. Looked like it was be fairly easy to pick up but among his other bag of mix ups it would be pretty easy to sneak it in.

 

[smurfx]

just played moons for a set and damn do i hate nova.

 

[Burning Water]

That list of Iron Man buffs is obnoxiously good. Well fuckling done.

 

[Killa Sasa]

Only buff there I disagree with is hard knockdown on spread assist. We already know how dumb hard knockdown assists are, and he already has 2 of the best assists. Make people earn their hit confirms instead of mashing a button or getting em as combo breakers.

 

[CookedChocobo]

Guys post your EC vs WC vs Rest of the World roster for the kicks. Here are my picks:

West Coast

Justin "Marvelous" Wong (Captain)
Fanatiq
PRBalrog
FChamp
Combofiend


East Coast

Chris G aka Godlike/Genius/G-sus (Captain)
Marlinpie
Yipes
Noel "Best in the World" Brown
RayRay

Rest of the World

Kusoru (Captain)
Zak Bennet
Chou
Abegen
Rei-Chan

Your picks are spot on, and like I can't wait to see if any of those matches actually go down in FGTV's Salty Suite at Evo.

I really want to see that East Coast vs West Coast runback tho...East Coast can't leave it at 0-2 :-(


OH yeah, Yipes said something about wanting to have NorCal vs Socal at the Curleh Mustache, West Coast Edition.

Who you think would win that? NorCal has PR_Rog, Fchamp, Patrick, Neo, and I don't know who else.
SoCal has Justin, Fanatiq, Knives, Combofiend, Clockwork, etc.

 

[Vice]

Has anyone seen any videos fo the Mexican MvC3 scene? I heard that they are leveling their game up. They've been inviting quite a few California players down to tournaments.