Karsticles
Member
Ah. Doesn't seem worth doing then.
IMO, Dante is flexible enough that you should let your third character decide the assist. I think Strider backed by Plasma Beam is better than Hidden Missiles.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT2| New Age of Zeroes
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
- Status
Vergil has a serious Felicia style MMH jump loop in XF3 (I think it's there in raw DT too, but the timing is tighter), why would you ever complicate it further with High Time? 
This is true too.
This is true too.
SolarKnight
Member
I've been trying out the team Smurf mentioned of Zero/Rocket/Ammy and oh god where the fuck did my execution go D:
I swear, I had trouble doing a simple corner buster relaunch, ugh >__<
Still, it did get me a couple of wins, so I'll see what I can do with it since those are my 3 favorite characters in the game.
I swear, I had trouble doing a simple corner buster relaunch, ugh >__<
Still, it did get me a couple of wins, so I'll see what I can do with it since those are my 3 favorite characters in the game.
SolarPowered
Member
I stop posting and you guys go totally insane. I gotta come around here more often.
Karsticles
Member
So did you get the PS3 version Solar?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Yeah I need that Hsien-Ko practice.
I remember mentioning it before =p. I love the banter between Vergil and Dante so I have teams for both of them as I love playing as both of them, just that when I'm serious mode I gotta tier whore. At the end of Vanilla when I heard about Dante getting nerfed and when I thought Zero was getting nerfed I panicked and put together Spencer/Doom just before Ultimate was released since they were already and strong AND getting buffed plus their synergy is great so it all worked out in the end. Then I decided I'm putting Vergil in no matter what since he's the character I wanted to play the most, and go figure he fit like a glove. TBH though Dante is better with Spencer/Doom than Vergil is and he was on the team just before Ultimate released.
Dante's got a special place for me, he's always bouncing around teams since he's the most versatile and BFFs with everyone in the game. Though I feel that going into Ultimate the nerfs really hurt him especially as a point character not just damage wise but the knockback and hitstun nerf, I don't think there was a need to hit him on EVERYTHING.
I like to play my teams like Combofiend where I want all characters to synergize well together, all of them should be able to play on point and everyones assists should benefit each other in some form. I value that the most.
Edit: I also have some stupid TAC stuff that I forgot to record oh well maybe when I'm not lazy. But I can't do any Marlinpie swag with Doom, M&M's for me only!
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Playing with that Chris team on the stream the day before Chris/Morrigan/Strider.
Holy shit this team has massive synergy, it's amazing quite frankly. THC, DHC, combos it's all there. I think it's time I put Hawkeye and Ghostrider to rest.
As far as combo extension goes, I'm sure you extend dante combos somehow with missiles as well- so that's probably a moot point. I agree strider is helped more by beam, but it's pretty rare that I bring strider out early- he's usually the last character standing unless he get's snapped in, so I don't know if it's worth choosing an assist for a situation that only comes up once every dozen matches so. I was also thinking after watching chris g call missiles assist and then air dashing forward over his opponent so that doom is behind them and unpunishable, that I could do something similar with my team. Strider has quick horizontal air movement with his qcf.m move, and dante in DT has vortex. Decisions decisions...
LOL Ghost Rider...
Of all the predictions I made in UMVC3, I think I fell off the grid the most with Ghost Rider (most other characters I called fairly right). I thought he would be solid Mid tier and that he would have strong match ups against at least the hard rushdown characters and his mid tier status would be supplanted by him having good/great assist selection. Basically the new Sentinel of the game.
The problem is that Ghost Rider is so ass that you cannot play him at any where except point backed up by 2 assists (he really needs 3 assists but you can't have that so he is always going to feel ill equipped). His assist potential is pretty much wasted because of this. His design is so terrible in that he gets lamed out by any character with either a fast projectile or a diagonal down projectile (Chris vs Ghost Rider is ZETA TIER FREE) despite the fact that he is supposed to be a zoning/keep away specialist. A lot of the good rushdown characters aka the teleporters or the zipliners he can't even correctly keep out because of that hidden gap at the tip of Heartless Spire which is really his only good tool against hard rushdown.
Ghost Rider is pretty much only playable backed up by Hidden Missiles and Mystic Ray... but so are like 20 different other characters who have at least a single projectile. I can play Chun Li with Hidden Missiles and it would look cheap as fuck.
It would've been pretty cool if Capcom succeeded in making a true Dhalsim successor to Marvel. However if they had just ported over MVC2 Dhalsim with some tricks of SSF4 Dhalsim he would've kicked the shit out of UMVC3 Ghost Rider (Stalking Flare like hyper, teleports, full screen fireballs, evasive move like Joe's Slow Dodge, air mobility/floats). Mobility and tools are everything in this game and it's just not worth it to trade those for health.
I still have a Ghost Rider alt team on my PS3 just because I love the character and he is still the most hilarious scrub killer in the game.
Of all the predictions I made in UMVC3, I think I fell off the grid the most with Ghost Rider (most other characters I called fairly right). I thought he would be solid Mid tier and that he would have strong match ups against at least the hard rushdown characters and his mid tier status would be supplanted by him having good/great assist selection. Basically the new Sentinel of the game.
The problem is that Ghost Rider is so ass that you cannot play him at any where except point backed up by 2 assists (he really needs 3 assists but you can't have that so he is always going to feel ill equipped). His assist potential is pretty much wasted because of this. His design is so terrible in that he gets lamed out by any character with either a fast projectile or a diagonal down projectile (Chris vs Ghost Rider is ZETA TIER FREE) despite the fact that he is supposed to be a zoning/keep away specialist. A lot of the good rushdown characters aka the teleporters or the zipliners he can't even correctly keep out because of that hidden gap at the tip of Heartless Spire which is really his only good tool against hard rushdown.
Ghost Rider is pretty much only playable backed up by Hidden Missiles and Mystic Ray... but so are like 20 different other characters who have at least a single projectile. I can play Chun Li with Hidden Missiles and it would look cheap as fuck.
It would've been pretty cool if Capcom succeeded in making a true Dhalsim successor to Marvel. However if they had just ported over MVC2 Dhalsim with some tricks of SSF4 Dhalsim he would've kicked the shit out of UMVC3 Ghost Rider (Stalking Flare like hyper, teleports, full screen fireballs, evasive move like Joe's Slow Dodge, air mobility/floats). Mobility and tools are everything in this game and it's just not worth it to trade those for health.
I still have a Ghost Rider alt team on my PS3 just because I love the character and he is still the most hilarious scrub killer in the game.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Sometimes I think Hulk needs 3 assists.
Karsticles
Member
I am so ready for that writeup. I thought that Boromir was holding a mic in that picture. I'm not counting on nerfs/buffs. Maybe we should do predictions of what we think will happen to all our characters?Going to be doing a monstrous UMVC3 meta game write up within the week. It will be filled with stats and good stuff, with possibly some predictions and analysis.
And obligatory...
Dormammu - minor nerfs (probably a damage nerf)
Morrigan - nothing noteworthy
Firebrand - minor buffs, possibly removing his unblockable if they have bad judgment
I was going through the OT1 today and once I saw the 400 pages, I just closed it. I wish there was an easy way to post early predictions to call people out on. All I remember is Q going on forever about Firebrand.
Posts like this make me want to pick up the character and show people what he can do. Back when people thought Morrigan was low tier, I got so many compliments. Now no one cares unless it's a ChrisG level of play, and I keep getting "your Morrigan needs work". -_- I'm confident that I could make a solid Ghost Rider team that at least goes even with anyone here. All of my time is taken up by figuring out stuff for my actual team, though.
I think there are more characters that work with him. Trish, Felicia (j.S leads to the easy unblockable), Hulk, Haggar, Iron Man (Repulsor Blast), MODOK (Shield Barrier). I think he benefits a lot from assists that just let him chill and do his thing. He needs something protective around him to counter trijumps if he goes for j.S. I think pairing him with arrows assist (most common) is just missing the point, like people think they're going to chip someone out with Ghost Rider or something. Eye of Agamotto would make him really hard to get in on.
Does Dhalsim's "Stalking Flare" in SSFIV actually track? I thought it just went forward.
Wait, you're PS3? IIRC you're back in the states, what's holding you up from playing?
I used to think that for Dormammu. Then I decided I'd rather not have assists at all to crutch on. Hulk really just needs one anyway: Sentinel Force. Anything beyond that is gravy.
Professor Beef
Banned
Nope. Just forward.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Well my predictions that you can call me out on:
GR
IF
both being good.
My predictions that were dead on despite the hype:
Nemesis being ass
Hawkeye beating everybody in a zoning war
Strider users dropping him like a weight
Strange not being a zoner but an unique rusher
Wright being useless
Firebrand being fucking awesome
GR
IF
both being good.
My predictions that were dead on despite the hype:
Nemesis being ass
Hawkeye beating everybody in a zoning war
Strider users dropping him like a weight
Strange not being a zoner but an unique rusher
Wright being useless
Firebrand being fucking awesome
Landing Penance Stare is one of the most satisfying supers to land, actually any level 3 grapple feels good :lol
Karst you have the wrong mentality with ghost rider already. It's not keeping away you have to worry about it's stuff like wesker gun shots. Rider sucks at covering up a life deficit with no mobility, no mix ups and no answer to super jumpers. I have made teams with ghost rider that are effective at keep away but suck when projectiles come into play.
And my ps3 is back in Pakistan. I am pretty sure I said that here. I only play marvel at a local scene here sometimes.
And my ps3 is back in Pakistan. I am pretty sure I said that here. I only play marvel at a local scene here sometimes.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Penance Stare gets ridiculous range if you cancel it from cr.M
Karsticles
Member
I think my mentality is right. I'm not talking about keepaway. I'm talking about assists that cover the zone around Ghost Rider so that he doesn't have to worry about what move he throws out as much. Like against Wesker, I'd be all about trying to get in while throwing those assists out to cover Wesker's quick rushdown. I don't play any character as straight keepaway or rushdown (well, unless it's Wolverine, etc.). That's foolish, even with Arthur. In my mind, a good team setup is about allowing your point character to do whatever the heck he wants, and I think Ghost Rider needs a good self-coverage assist to do that.
I remember. I meant it more as "what's the long-term story?" Are you here in the US for a summer and then going back, or...? Even if your internet is ass in Pakistan, you should still add me so I don't have to do it later.
I'd even be happy with a recording! But I'd also want to play against him, even though his team would irritates the heck out of me.
I still think Dr. Strange is keepaway plus teleport mix-ups. No one has been successful with him in a tournament outside of Dieminion, and Dr. Strange pretty much throws out hypers until he DHCs him out on that team - he doesn't pull a lot of weight.
I actually hate using Dark Dimension. Every time I think "That's 3 Stalking Flares I don't get to throw out...ugh." Some characters are just so troublesome that it needs to be done.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Not really. All the successful Stranges you can talk to(including Maziodyne) tell you he is a rushdown character but unorthodox style. Designed to use his traps to cover his approach. So pretty much run him with a space making assist and a lockdown assist.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I'd love to play Dahbomb. I'll probably get ducked up since Vergil destroys Hawkeye.
But it'd probably be fun to play. Kill Vergil and you get Iron Man for free!
But it'd probably be fun to play. Kill Vergil and you get Iron Man for free!
Karsticles
Member
What successful Strange players? I see Dieminion and that's it. Massive respect to Maziodyne, because he puts out a lot of tech, but I've never seen him perform at a tournament, which is all that I care about.
Dahbomb, who is your third again? Is it Dante?
shaowebb
Member
Couldn't you use a horizontal space eater and one decent get off me to make a good Ghost Rider team?
Like maybe Akuma (tatsu) and Iron Man (Repulsor)?
Maybe Haggar (lariat) and any beam?
Just a thought really. I'd actually be interested in what kind of stuff you could do with GR and Ironman.
Karsticles
Member
I just don't see the point in the horizontal. Most players aren't going to approach Ghost Rider along the ground because j.S and j.H are such good anti-ground attacks, and you can throw them both out safely. In my mind, the point of horizontal assists is to generally cover the aspect of the field that the character can't. Ghost Rider already has a lot of that covered for him, so why worry about it?
Like, what exactly would Ghost Rider get off of a blocked Akuma tatsu? It's not like he's going to mix up his opponent from it like Wolverine would. I tend to pick my optimal assists on "Almost as good if my opponent blocks as when he gets hit". I see the idea of having a ranged projectile that Ghost Rider can grab someone with s.H off of, but who is staying on the ground against Ghost Rider to get hit by it in the first place?
That's my thinking, at least.
Gnight.
crimsonspider89
Banned
If no projectile/Akuma assist, Ghost Rider will get assaulted by projectiles.
Also, maziodyne doesn't enter in tourneys due to where he lives. Believe he lives in the philipines.
Also, maziodyne doesn't enter in tourneys due to where he lives. Believe he lives in the philipines.
Karsticles
Member
A combination of j.S, Heartless Spire, and Judgment Strike shouldn't make the horizontal too difficult to deal with.
I don't think that affects my statement either way.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Yes, it does. How do you know who is actually the best Strange if say the best Strange cannot enter tourneys? Saying Dieminion is the best Strange based on the fact he is present in a stream is a fallacy. Where Maziodyne is one of the top contributors to Strange tech, Dieminion has shown he does not understand the character and uses him mainly as a DHC/assist character.
To say that Dieminion is the best Strange due to exposure is like saying Britney Spears is the best singer to exposure.
Now if you were to say best Strange that is present on streams, you would be correct.
Welcome to one of my biggest pet peeves. Never deal in absolutes unless it is a mathematical and empirical fact.
Also have an headache and angry....... so yeah.
To say that Dieminion is the best Strange due to exposure is like saying Britney Spears is the best singer to exposure.
Now if you were to say best Strange that is present on streams, you would be correct.
Welcome to one of my biggest pet peeves. Never deal in absolutes unless it is a mathematical and empirical fact.
Also have an headache and angry....... so yeah.
SolarPowered
Member
I sent you a friend request hours ago. Morrigan's sou sou sou is also ten million times easier on the DS3.
You won't see me picking her very often. I've sworn off using characters that are less than B tier in versus games.
Karsticles
Member
I didn't say Dieminion is the best Strange because he's in tournaments. I said I don't care about anything I haven't seen in a tournament environment. That doesn't mean Maziodyne isn't good, it just means his testimony doesn't hold weight with me unless he shows what he has going for him. It's not a point of disrespect, it's just my standard.
What does it matter if Maziodyne contributes a lot of tech? I contribute tons of Dormammu tech, and it doesn't mean I'm a great Dormammu player. You brought up "successful" Dr. Strange players, and then you want to talk about Maziodyne, who hasn't competed in anything. "Successful" must entail some form of success, and I hope we can both agree that discovering tech is not the kind of success we're looking for here.
One of my biggest pet peeves is people who respond without actually comprehending my post.
Awesome. I turned off my PS3 at around 9PM, so I must have just missed it. Want to play tomorrow afternoon?
And since you don't use Hsien-ko, who are you using?
Edit: I found this in SRK's Ghost Rider video thread (which has a whopping total of 8 posts) and laughed:
http://www.twitch.tv/peacefuljay/b/301164263
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Semantics Fighter GO!!!!!!
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Zero is dumb.
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Zero is dumb.
i dont know what to do anymore, believe me i try everything to play decent
maybe its time to get a new router or something but since my country is stuck on adsl technology i dont have access to a decent router/modem combo. hopefully i can move to ny, i seriously need to get out of my country. (im wasting myself in this lame ass country)
Well, later on that day I was having internet issues on my end, so part of the problem with our connection that set might have been on my end.i dont know what to do anymore, believe me i try everything to play decent
hopefully i can move to ny, i seriously need to get out of my country. (im wasting myself in this lame ass country)
Not sure what's happened to your internet though. It always had a delay, but it felt much worse the past few times we've played.
I love my boy Hyperdrive, but he has a lot of work to do. He has some good stuff, but a lot of his hits come from inexperience playing against Spiderman. Great guy though. Finally got a set in with him at the last tourney we both went to. Hoping to get some more sets in at ARK V when he comes.
Captain America can't do any good zoning with shield slash. Durability is terrible. If it touches another projectile, it is pretty much gone and there's no return hit.
so you guys were talking about ghost rider. taskmaster owns him free. btw i really, really liked the vergil assist paired with hawkeye. i would even consider it if the assist wasn't attached to vergil. i was playing with zero's shadow handangeki assist the other day on ranked and it really helps hawkeye's zoning. its still my fav projectile assist.
SolarPowered
Member
I'm using the most fraudulent Doom ever. The game is interesting enough for me if I can develop Morrigan and Ammy really well. I can't play until 9PM EST Monday through Thursday.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Just dropping in to say that Yipes' top 8 entrance was incredible to see in person. Pretty hype tournament.
Going to jump on the "fuck Zero" train, too. I did better against Viscant, Fanatiq, and Houshen than I did against the 2 people I lost to in pools. I hate that match-up so much. It's completely dependent on the Zero player making a mistake and it's just so hard to force him to make one if the player is smart. I'm seriously considering picking him up myself just to improve my understanding of the shit that he does. Not a single Vergil, Magneto, Wesker, etc. that I faced all weekend frustrated me nearly as much.
Going to jump on the "fuck Zero" train, too. I did better against Viscant, Fanatiq, and Houshen than I did against the 2 people I lost to in pools. I hate that match-up so much. It's completely dependent on the Zero player making a mistake and it's just so hard to force him to make one if the player is smart. I'm seriously considering picking him up myself just to improve my understanding of the shit that he does. Not a single Vergil, Magneto, Wesker, etc. that I faced all weekend frustrated me nearly as much.
I was just going to do what I did last time with a bit more stuff to it.
Post stats of players and characters wins from NEC to CEO. Extrapolate some useful information from the statistics and comment on them.
Then I will comment on some individual characters who will be important going into EVO and some teams they will be seen on. I will probably also be adding in player analysis and their chances to win EVO.
I might add a little section on counter pick assists and relate them to the statistics if that might prove meaningful. One thing I know for sure is that counter pick teams right now are a huge thing in Marvel 3, especially if CEO was any indication.
In other news, no one commented on MarlinPie using snap back against Spiral Swords to negate it. That actually works if he activates them right on you without putting you into block stun prior. He did it twice. Not a bad idea at all, a meter for a meter.
Post stats of players and characters wins from NEC to CEO. Extrapolate some useful information from the statistics and comment on them.
Then I will comment on some individual characters who will be important going into EVO and some teams they will be seen on. I will probably also be adding in player analysis and their chances to win EVO.
I might add a little section on counter pick assists and relate them to the statistics if that might prove meaningful. One thing I know for sure is that counter pick teams right now are a huge thing in Marvel 3, especially if CEO was any indication.
In other news, no one commented on MarlinPie using snap back against Spiral Swords to negate it. That actually works if he activates them right on you without putting you into block stun prior. He did it twice. Not a bad idea at all, a meter for a meter.
Just hurry up and tell me what is the top tier team at the moment.
I need to start practicing with it. #Kappa #DansGame #ohgodamireallydoingtwitchfaces? #ashamed
There is no best team overall... there is a best team in a certain situation or against a particular opponent. A team like Wesker/Vergil/Magneto is insanely top tier but it's ill equipped to handle Morrigan/Doom/Vergil team or a Zero/Doom team. Wesker/Vergil/Magneto is definitely team scrubs though, I would agree with Yipes on that. Either that or Wolverine/Vergil/Akuma or even Wesker/Vergil/Strider. I would defend Wolverine/Vergil/Akuma until the game dies, that team is legit although Disruptor is the best assist for Vergil bar none.
Too many counter pick teams in this game and counter strategies to label one team as the definitive best.
Too many counter pick teams in this game and counter strategies to label one team as the definitive best.
Seriously, otherwise I'm ass and should stop playing this game. :lol
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Team Scrub doesn't mean scrubbish. Means that the team basically teaches you the fundamentals of the game, iirc.
I know Magneto is not scrubbish but the entire team is just like Cable/Sentinel/CapCom was even though Sentinel was a difficult character to play with.
It's basically 2 teleport characters with a super fast beam assist. Wesker gets easy mode mix ups with Disruptor and gets easy mode combo extensions with Rapid Slash. Even if you mess up the assist button, Rapid Slash is also a great mix up tool. With Vergil on point, you get brain dead easy OTG assist to extend combos and capitalize off of random Helm Breakers. You also get his best assist. Any BnBs of Wesker DHC into Vergil is a character kill combo. Random Magnetic Shockwave DHC into either Spiral Swords or DT is a full combo. Magneto gets easy mode OTG combos with Wesker and gets zoning help + semi-lock down with Vergil.
The cherry on top with this team is that all these characters are DEADLY in LVL3XF. You don't have to even know how to play Magneto all that well and just play him as an assist, LVL3XF character. It's not that hard to do tri-dash L or H into his basic flight j.H combo. The fact that all 3 characters are anchor XF characters this team is pretty much immune to snap backs because the team doing the snap backs is doing it wrong (like how Houshen lost the matches against Andre trying to snap in characters...).
Strider instead of Magneto has the same effect, you don't really need to know how to play Strider properly to win with the team. Wolverine/Vergil/Akuma or Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma are probably the most scrubbish but without a full screen presence like Disruptor/Vajra you need to actually work a bit for your teleport mix ups.
It's basically 2 teleport characters with a super fast beam assist. Wesker gets easy mode mix ups with Disruptor and gets easy mode combo extensions with Rapid Slash. Even if you mess up the assist button, Rapid Slash is also a great mix up tool. With Vergil on point, you get brain dead easy OTG assist to extend combos and capitalize off of random Helm Breakers. You also get his best assist. Any BnBs of Wesker DHC into Vergil is a character kill combo. Random Magnetic Shockwave DHC into either Spiral Swords or DT is a full combo. Magneto gets easy mode OTG combos with Wesker and gets zoning help + semi-lock down with Vergil.
The cherry on top with this team is that all these characters are DEADLY in LVL3XF. You don't have to even know how to play Magneto all that well and just play him as an assist, LVL3XF character. It's not that hard to do tri-dash L or H into his basic flight j.H combo. The fact that all 3 characters are anchor XF characters this team is pretty much immune to snap backs because the team doing the snap backs is doing it wrong (like how Houshen lost the matches against Andre trying to snap in characters...).
Strider instead of Magneto has the same effect, you don't really need to know how to play Strider properly to win with the team. Wolverine/Vergil/Akuma or Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma are probably the most scrubbish but without a full screen presence like Disruptor/Vajra you need to actually work a bit for your teleport mix ups.
So, looking at how CEO did this past week in regards of having the UMVC3 tournament in a 3/5 format, has there been any update from Mr Wizard and the EVO staff on their decision on how Marvel is gonna go down?
I mean, having the Top 24 for AE as the main event for Sunday is kinda of a hint there...
I mean, having the Top 24 for AE as the main event for Sunday is kinda of a hint there...
JeTmAn81
Member
I noticed something about Vergil combos being performed in CEO 2012. For the Spiral Sword loops (typically Lunar Phase, Round Trip, c.H into Judgment Cut L), I have been practicing doing a c.H at the end of the loop before going back into the swords again. That part is always tough for me, because it's a link with a pretty short window to perform it after Judgment Cut finishes. Justin, Flocker and others were just skipping that part and going straight into the swords! That makes it ten times easier to do. Those cheaters.
Also, I'm wondering if Wesker belongs on anybody's team anymore. He just has so many bad matchups. I love his playstyle, but the metagame is moving to the point where all the most dominant characters just spit all over him.
Also, I'm wondering if Wesker belongs on anybody's team anymore. He just has so many bad matchups. I love his playstyle, but the metagame is moving to the point where all the most dominant characters just spit all over him.
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