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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT2| New Age of Zeroes
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
- Status
God damn Abegen!!!! Dude ran a train on everyone there.
2/3 might benefit him because Japan still does it in their format and they are more accustomed to it. Plus most of America isn't going to figure out his team in 2/3. I expect him to make it out of pools and probably make some upsets on the way.
Karsticles
Member
So just:
c.M, s.S, sj.MMHS, TK.L, qcf.AA?
Are you having difficulty TKing the Rocket Punch?
Oh it's a TK! Thought it was some unfly fly thing
wheres the VOD on this?
Hey guys, we're streaming some awesome UMvC3 and SF4 AE 2012 matches here at Dallas Texas Bar Fights Round 9. It'd be extremely amazing if you guys could tune in and watch some of the top players in Texas duke it out. Catch us at www.twitch.tv/boomgorillas as we'll be streaming all day. Hope to see you guys watching. Thanks alot!
Put the link in here as well: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=479016
Fighting Games Weekly thread.
DeadPhoenix9065
Member
Don't know if already posted, Trish TAC infinite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-fMMHyliKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-fMMHyliKI
Karsticles
Member
@Shaowebb
Do you have the Ultimate Marvel guide? I read through a good portion of the Iron Fist section today, and man, this guy really strikes me as a character for whom it pays to know his frame data. After reading a lot of his stuff, I have a stronger understanding of what it exactly is that he has to offer.
Some neat things I didn't know about Iron Fist:
-His launcher is a low (but unsafe on block)
-You can whiff Dragon's Touch into Dragon Tail into Rising Fang from anywhere
-Dual Palm (b.H) nullifies low and medium projectiles
-He has a LOT of moves that end in neutral frame advantage
-Iron Rage is invincible from frame 1
-Rekka moves can be canceled into Chi moves
Moves that end in neutral frame advantage or close to:
Lotus Whip: +0
s.L: +1
s.H: +0
c.L: +0
b.H: +2
See where this is going? I'll add this:
-All Chi moves have one hit of super armor from frames 5-20
-Wall of K'un-Lun has armor from frames 5-17
-Iron Rage invincible from frame 1
-Iron Fist gets full combos from ground throws
Why do you think Iron Fist has a f.H and a b.H command normal, one of which is positive on block and gets you past advancing guard, and the other which is jump canceling and gets you past advancing guard?
Basically, I think Iron Fist is meant to be played, looking at his character design, much like a safe Hulk with worse armor and reach. Like Hulk, I think Iron Fist is meant to be based entirely around frame traps. Justin Wong tried to use him as a high/low mix-up character, but it just fails miserably because his fastest low is 10 frames, which is laughably bad. That's not to say you can't do high/low mix-ups, but rather that I just don't think this is the point of Iron Fist.
An example scenario that might not work out in reality, but shows the kind of thing I'm talking about:
I think you're supposed to end your blockstrings with s.H (just using a +0 move for example), and now your opponent is in the trap: if your opponent doesn't know Iron Fist, you get a free throw from f.H or b.H as soon as you both recover. If your opponent does know Iron Fist, he's going to try and tech the throw and reset you both to neutral. This is where the frame trap mind games begin. Sometimes, you're going to wait until you both recover, and go for the throw. Other times, you're going to wait until you're about to recover, and then go into b.H or f.H so as he attempts to throw you, you get the hit on him. If this gets blocked (or even do this instead of the b.H/f.H), cancel into Chi L, which has a super armor hit. If your opponent attempts to punish you, cancel into Iron Rage for big damage and a free combo that rebuilds the meter you lost. I think you want to call an assist here so that if your opponent doesn't punish, he's pinned for more pressure.
Basically, I think your goal with Iron Fist, once you're in there, is to make sure your opponent can't do anything without getting hurt. I don't think the goal is to overwhelm him with pressure in the way, say, Dante does, or even Felicia, but more like Hulk, where he has Gamma Charged next to you and you're just scared shitless to do anything but block and you get thrown as a result. The only difference is that Iron Fist gets combos off of his throws, and Hulk doesn't.
Also, my hunch is that if you cancel a move into a Chi, you can't be pushblocked anymore. That tends to be the case when you cancel from an attack into a neutral state. You'd have to test it, though.
I haven't really thought about the implications for these facts for Iron Fist other than this: he really doesn't need a pinning assist, because he's not going for mix-ups. He just need things that let him stay in there, like high priority projectiles.
Do you have the Ultimate Marvel guide? I read through a good portion of the Iron Fist section today, and man, this guy really strikes me as a character for whom it pays to know his frame data. After reading a lot of his stuff, I have a stronger understanding of what it exactly is that he has to offer.
Some neat things I didn't know about Iron Fist:
-His launcher is a low (but unsafe on block)
-You can whiff Dragon's Touch into Dragon Tail into Rising Fang from anywhere
-Dual Palm (b.H) nullifies low and medium projectiles
-He has a LOT of moves that end in neutral frame advantage
-Iron Rage is invincible from frame 1
-Rekka moves can be canceled into Chi moves
Moves that end in neutral frame advantage or close to:
Lotus Whip: +0
s.L: +1
s.H: +0
c.L: +0
b.H: +2
See where this is going? I'll add this:
-All Chi moves have one hit of super armor from frames 5-20
-Wall of K'un-Lun has armor from frames 5-17
-Iron Rage invincible from frame 1
-Iron Fist gets full combos from ground throws
Why do you think Iron Fist has a f.H and a b.H command normal, one of which is positive on block and gets you past advancing guard, and the other which is jump canceling and gets you past advancing guard?
Basically, I think Iron Fist is meant to be played, looking at his character design, much like a safe Hulk with worse armor and reach. Like Hulk, I think Iron Fist is meant to be based entirely around frame traps. Justin Wong tried to use him as a high/low mix-up character, but it just fails miserably because his fastest low is 10 frames, which is laughably bad. That's not to say you can't do high/low mix-ups, but rather that I just don't think this is the point of Iron Fist.
An example scenario that might not work out in reality, but shows the kind of thing I'm talking about:
I think you're supposed to end your blockstrings with s.H (just using a +0 move for example), and now your opponent is in the trap: if your opponent doesn't know Iron Fist, you get a free throw from f.H or b.H as soon as you both recover. If your opponent does know Iron Fist, he's going to try and tech the throw and reset you both to neutral. This is where the frame trap mind games begin. Sometimes, you're going to wait until you both recover, and go for the throw. Other times, you're going to wait until you're about to recover, and then go into b.H or f.H so as he attempts to throw you, you get the hit on him. If this gets blocked (or even do this instead of the b.H/f.H), cancel into Chi L, which has a super armor hit. If your opponent attempts to punish you, cancel into Iron Rage for big damage and a free combo that rebuilds the meter you lost. I think you want to call an assist here so that if your opponent doesn't punish, he's pinned for more pressure.
Basically, I think your goal with Iron Fist, once you're in there, is to make sure your opponent can't do anything without getting hurt. I don't think the goal is to overwhelm him with pressure in the way, say, Dante does, or even Felicia, but more like Hulk, where he has Gamma Charged next to you and you're just scared shitless to do anything but block and you get thrown as a result. The only difference is that Iron Fist gets combos off of his throws, and Hulk doesn't.
Also, my hunch is that if you cancel a move into a Chi, you can't be pushblocked anymore. That tends to be the case when you cancel from an attack into a neutral state. You'd have to test it, though.
I haven't really thought about the implications for these facts for Iron Fist other than this: he really doesn't need a pinning assist, because he's not going for mix-ups. He just need things that let him stay in there, like high priority projectiles.
Mystery solved!
"God's Beard!"
Member
That is a goddamn MVC2 combo.
Man, I really want to see someone revisit Iron Fist with this knowledge!
Damn...I may have to watch this just based on the team compositions of the top-8:
1. Abegen (Tron Bonne, Thor, She-Hulk)
2. JEO (Morrigan, Wesker, Strider)
3. Nemo (Spencer, Dr. Strange, Wesker)
3. Mamespider (Spiderman, Dr. Doom, Vergil)
5. Yokohama_MODOK (MODOK, Dr. Doom, Strider)
5. Udaterasu (Amaterasu, Firebrand, Vergil)
5. vxDANTE (Dante, Dr. Doom, Phoenix
5. Dea (Haggar, Thor, Rocket Raccoon)
"God's Beard!"
Member
What japanese MVC3 players are going to EVO?
I really don't think anybody needed to be told that lol
I really don't think anybody needed to be told that lol
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
I already hate playing against Trish as it is. Fucking character can stay in the air all day without even trying.
Jumping online now if anyones interested.
Karsticles
Member
MisterLuffy
Member
I can't believe Trish can do that. I wonder how that person discovered it?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Chou and Abegen for sure. Not sure anyone else.
Magic pixel Amaterasu Vs. XF3 Vergil anchor battle.
I turn on Veil of Mist, he turns on Summoned Swords.
Dumbass me puts out an Okami Shuffle just for spacing's sake and he literally Rapid Slashes full screen through it all.
Conclusion: Spiral Swords are busted as all fuck. :lol
I turn on Veil of Mist, he turns on Summoned Swords.
Dumbass me puts out an Okami Shuffle just for spacing's sake and he literally Rapid Slashes full screen through it all.
Conclusion: Spiral Swords are busted as all fuck. :lol
shaowebb
Member
Niiiiiice. I've been doing the whiff cancels for awhile now trying to find ways in and new about Iron Rage too. I was still in high/low mixup mentality though and switching to frame trap mind games with more throws definitely sounds like a better way of converting against guys blocking like mad once I get in off of Arthur's daggers. His jump cancels can make some moves safe from what I'm reading maybe if I throw the move that might need the jump cancel and call tasky arrows at the same time I can use that for a way to keep it super safe just in case. Definitely gonna practice ending everything in s.H more to start messing with folks.
Karsticles
Member
@Shao - well, it's all highly theoretical right now. I'll let you know how it works in practice in a while, haha. Iron Fist combos are hard as hell, I'm not used to not being able to launch opponents.
I'll play. Ask in the chat next time. I have PM pop-ups turned off so they don't disturb my play.
You can drop the downward zip line and just qcf.S right when you touch ground. That's what I do.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Just pretend IF doesn't have an S on the ground and you're good to go.
"God's Beard!"
Member
No JP Captain America, then?
Think of the wallbounce as a clock, zip down around 10. Same goes for the cross zips.
Think of the wallbounce as a clock, zip down around 10. Same goes for the cross zips.
House of Paincakes
Neo Member
Thanks for keeping me on the list guys even though I didn't have forum access yet. Finally the NeoGAF gods have granted me access.
Looking forward to playing you guys. I know Bizazedo from the Penny Arcade MvC3 so I've already played him a bit, and jetman81 is part of my local crew.
Send me an invite anytime, I'm usually running Dormammu/Doom/Strider these days.
Now for a question. I was messing around with Spencer last night and trying a basic combo into knockdown, tiger knee H grapple, then criss-cross zip into standing H grapple. Is there some trick to the criss-cross? Or is the timing just real specific, or is it character specific? Either my first zip would connect me right in line with the opponent (so I wouldn't pass through) or my second zip would whiff completely.
Looking forward to playing you guys. I know Bizazedo from the Penny Arcade MvC3 so I've already played him a bit, and jetman81 is part of my local crew.
Send me an invite anytime, I'm usually running Dormammu/Doom/Strider these days.
Now for a question. I was messing around with Spencer last night and trying a basic combo into knockdown, tiger knee H grapple, then criss-cross zip into standing H grapple. Is there some trick to the criss-cross? Or is the timing just real specific, or is it character specific? Either my first zip would connect me right in line with the opponent (so I wouldn't pass through) or my second zip would whiff completely.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Normal jump grapple instead of tiger kneeing it, and wait until you're about to start going back down before the first zip.
SolarKnight
Member
Note to self: NEVER try to chip out a Viper with meter even if shes on the magic pixel -_-
I agree with this assessment but kind of in reverse. Hulk benefits from making your opponent attack you and absorbing their attacks where as Iron Fist has some of the best whiff punishers in the game S.M and S.H. A good advancing guard on Iron Fist's parts or some frame traps as you generously pointed out makes it so that your opponent cannot do thoughtless block strings.
Also Justin wasn't using an optimized Iron Fist team, he just slapped him together because he was fun and Wolverine/Akuma were there to bail him out.
I wanted to point out that all but one out of the moves that have >= 0+ frame advantage have terrible range, and that you have to be in on your opponent first before throwing those moves out. S.H is the best normal but has 11f startup. Iron Fist also has difficulty converting from anti-air hits, where as Hulk can perform a full combo easily from any hit.
Your H seems to be knocking the opponent away, preventing the 3-4 frame version of Armor Piercer from coming out.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I think I'm going to test out Magneto/Rocket Raccoon/Haggar as a backup team. There is some Wesker-level shit with Raccoon/Haggar, and Magneto cound use the defense as well. Lariat also doubles as an amazing combo assist for both characters.
Rocket skates double crossup with Haggar is so stupid.
Rocket skates double crossup with Haggar is so stupid.
Did you get hit with the Starman (EX Thunder Knuckle is as invincible as Jesus I swear) or the EX Seismo?
SolarKnight
Member
Super that goes through beams from fullscreen >_>
"God's Beard!"
Member
Watching Japanese matches is so weird. They drop or don't finish combos, stand still for no reason and generally make a lot of bad decisions. But on the other side, there's all this batshit crazy tech that comes out of nowhere.
And fucking everybody plays Vergil.
And fucking everybody plays Vergil.
Might controls metagame.
SolarKnight
Member
Getting eliminated because you dropped, on stream, what youve been practicing all week gets your salt levels elevated an incredible amount.
Yes I mean the boulders...
Yes I mean the boulders...
That's how it goes - practice and get it down, only to drop it when it matters. Shit sucks; dem nerves.
WesternHeretic
Member
That's exactly how I felt watching the archive of those ranbats.
It's like "wow these guys don't finish their plate." Then 10 seconds later it's like "wow what the fuck is that? HOLY MOLY."
I'm like not impressed, and impressed at the same time. MIND EXPLOSION!
"God's Beard!"
Member
Yes! I solved my Raccoon combo problem!
So I was having problems with log trap knocking people out of the corner because I'm usually over there already when I otg with Mr.Flapper and I want to OTG again with the fire carpet.
My solution:
LMH6HS, jMHS, Mr.Flapper, Log Trap, Oil Balloon xx Mad Hopper(M+H), 6HS, jHS, H(oil carpet), 6H xx Claymore, Pendulum xx Rock and Roll
So the wallbounce knocks them out of the corner, then I use the Mad hopper to bounce them right back in ^_^
I'll update with damage and such once it's cleaned up and I have it settled. One cool thing about Rocket Raccoon + Haggar is that if you time it right, the incoming character can't even tell you teleported because he's so small!
So I was having problems with log trap knocking people out of the corner because I'm usually over there already when I otg with Mr.Flapper and I want to OTG again with the fire carpet.
My solution:
LMH6HS, jMHS, Mr.Flapper, Log Trap, Oil Balloon xx Mad Hopper(M+H), 6HS, jHS, H(oil carpet), 6H xx Claymore, Pendulum xx Rock and Roll
So the wallbounce knocks them out of the corner, then I use the Mad hopper to bounce them right back in ^_^
I'll update with damage and such once it's cleaned up and I have it settled. One cool thing about Rocket Raccoon + Haggar is that if you time it right, the incoming character can't even tell you teleported because he's so small!
Abegen is insanely good because he has a good combo completion rate. He OCVs people with Tron just based off of his combo completions into TODs. He knows the value of the hits he gets with the characters he plays so he makes it count.
The rest of the player drop the soap very often. Jeo in particular was dropping a lot of Morrigan combos, even combos for Wesker and Strider.
It's really crazy to consider how this game would've shaped up if we weren't in the age of online streaming and people from the EC and the WC didn't see each other play. Would've been crazy walking into EVO having to fight Morrigan + Doom or Flocker's TOD Zero or Yipes Sparda Twins or Marlin's Viper or Zak's Firebrand or FChamp's Dorm or Abegen without ever even seeing it before. Of course most pro players alleviate this by scouting players during casuals, they download most of their data from that part of the tournament.
The rest of the player drop the soap very often. Jeo in particular was dropping a lot of Morrigan combos, even combos for Wesker and Strider.
It's really crazy to consider how this game would've shaped up if we weren't in the age of online streaming and people from the EC and the WC didn't see each other play. Would've been crazy walking into EVO having to fight Morrigan + Doom or Flocker's TOD Zero or Yipes Sparda Twins or Marlin's Viper or Zak's Firebrand or FChamp's Dorm or Abegen without ever even seeing it before. Of course most pro players alleviate this by scouting players during casuals, they download most of their data from that part of the tournament.
Question: what does xx denote, as well as the 6?
xx is cancel, I guess, but I'm not sure about the number, haha.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Actually, it's a little easier to do a quick backdash before the OTG flapper.
6 = forward
6 = forward
Cool, thanks.
Ragingnight
Member
Apparently Justin found new wolvie tech
Possibly going back to wolverine?
via his twitter.
Possibly going back to wolverine?
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