-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT2| New Age of Zeroes
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
- Status
Not sure I follow, but I was just thinking of it being a one time use. You're getting comboed, pop the x-factor, and it's gone, you break away and can't follow up yourself. Kinda like throw teching. Sounds reasonable? I'm not good at theory fighting, just thinking out loud.
I have always liked the idea behind bursts, but from following things in this part of FGC GAF, I get the feeling that it'd be really hard to develop one that would make everyone happy in Marvel. I personally think bursts are a very good thing to have in games though as long as you can't combo off them and they have a good tax.
Edit: Actually this entire burst discussion is really good, I'm bookmarking this page for later when I can mess with my design docs again.
850K? Is that with a j.S confirm or from the magic series chain? Run some notations by me, I'd love to see what's new and what I should play with more.
Meanwhile, I feel like I've slowed down with R&D for really high damage Dante stuff. The most I've gotten is like 800K from a M chain doing Frantic's Million Carats + Strider assist stuff and about 30K more from a j.S/Hammer start. I think I need to play in the lab some more though, I had an idea for the rapid Volcanos transitioning into a Million Carats as Strider comes down and wanted to see what the damage was like. Problem is, all of a sudden I suck at TKing Volcanoes. :lol
I'm trying to learn more about getting the first hit and staying in there from watching Yipes and also trying to officially learn/create/use more resets. I feel a bit more confident though playing matches even if I will still call Zero the Antichrist & Vergil the goddamned Xenomorph. Just gotta keep trying new things. Speaking of which, why is Glaive Ammy so damn good? I didn't realize how much frame advantage her j.H had on block. Feels so good to hit my brother with that and give him a taste of what Sentsuizan - low hit is like.
Edit: Actually this entire burst discussion is really good, I'm bookmarking this page for later when I can mess with my design docs again.
Just want to tack on some things
- When teleporting with Dante, test your opponent to see if they can react to it/punish it.
- For the most part, Dante can NOT LMHS hitconfirm his opponent like in Vanilla, you should learn the Volcano Bold Cancel bread and butter.
- XF3 Dante is a complete different beast and CANNOT do normal bread and butters, you have to be creative and utilize his infinites
Also Azure, been working some new combos with my Dante team... I can't do the "high impact" damage but I cap out at like 850k with million dollars. Any new swag you got?
850K? Is that with a j.S confirm or from the magic series chain? Run some notations by me, I'd love to see what's new and what I should play with more.
Meanwhile, I feel like I've slowed down with R&D for really high damage Dante stuff. The most I've gotten is like 800K from a M chain doing Frantic's Million Carats + Strider assist stuff and about 30K more from a j.S/Hammer start. I think I need to play in the lab some more though, I had an idea for the rapid Volcanos transitioning into a Million Carats as Strider comes down and wanted to see what the damage was like. Problem is, all of a sudden I suck at TKing Volcanoes. :lol
I'm trying to learn more about getting the first hit and staying in there from watching Yipes and also trying to officially learn/create/use more resets. I feel a bit more confident though playing matches even if I will still call Zero the Antichrist & Vergil the goddamned Xenomorph. Just gotta keep trying new things. Speaking of which, why is Glaive Ammy so damn good? I didn't realize how much frame advantage her j.H had on block. Feels so good to hit my brother with that and give him a taste of what Sentsuizan - low hit is like.
I don't have a problem with X factor burst provided the following:
*X factor burst is of course a one time only combo breaker. Upon using it as a combo breaker your X factor is completely drained.
*You cannot follow up after the burst in any situation and both players are reset back to neutral. The burst sends the opponent far away similar to TAC counter burst.
*X factor'd characters getting hit by the burst have their X factor time cut down in half instantly after the burst.
*Burst can be baited. Once you are in hit stun when the player turns on X factor they flash red for a few frames and then the burst animation occurs. Delaying a hit of a combo or doing an intentional whiff in anticipation of a Burst will result in the burst and X factor being wasted because you will block in time. The burst is safe on block though but by X factor cancelling the burst you can punish it.
Edit: *Raw tagging and assist calling is disable for a short amount of time after the burst.
*X factor burst immediately removes all red health from the point character.
I think these changes would make the burst mechanic very interesting. It's very important to be able to bait and XFC the burst as it will result in high level mind games.
*X factor burst is of course a one time only combo breaker. Upon using it as a combo breaker your X factor is completely drained.
*You cannot follow up after the burst in any situation and both players are reset back to neutral. The burst sends the opponent far away similar to TAC counter burst.
*X factor'd characters getting hit by the burst have their X factor time cut down in half instantly after the burst.
*Burst can be baited. Once you are in hit stun when the player turns on X factor they flash red for a few frames and then the burst animation occurs. Delaying a hit of a combo or doing an intentional whiff in anticipation of a Burst will result in the burst and X factor being wasted because you will block in time. The burst is safe on block though but by X factor cancelling the burst you can punish it.
Edit: *Raw tagging and assist calling is disable for a short amount of time after the burst.
*X factor burst immediately removes all red health from the point character.
I think these changes would make the burst mechanic very interesting. It's very important to be able to bait and XFC the burst as it will result in high level mind games.
SolarKnight
Member
What if it can be followed up in certain situations but the combos are very heavily scaled like in Blazblue? Like, even more than throws.
...Although I gues lv3s kinda get around that.
burst would also prevent many people from blowing their x factor to kill your characters. you would probably see less weskers blow xf2 to kill your character when you can use burst to get him the hell away from you. would be a nice feature since its better to blow it than have one of your characters die and then have to worry about the incoming mixup.
crimsonspider89
Banned
That still isn't good enough. That still favors pixie and strong neutral game characters.
When used for a burst, removes all red health to prevent tagging out by pixie characters to recover said health and increases all scaling of normals/special for a set time afterwards. To prevent zoners/pixies to mix up or set up wake up traps after burst.
Those are the minimal things needed to keep it balanced.
When used for a burst, removes all red health to prevent tagging out by pixie characters to recover said health and increases all scaling of normals/special for a set time afterwards. To prevent zoners/pixies to mix up or set up wake up traps after burst.
Those are the minimal things needed to keep it balanced.
No way because certain characters still do tons of damage even when max damage scaling is applies. I guess that's something that should be addressed first with characters like Zero, Spencer, Viper and Vergil but it's still not something that would be advisable.
If you are allowed to hit someone after a burst then that's a huge momentum shifter as it can lead into a TAC situation or a reset situation. Burst is something to cover up a single mistake in the game not to gain a massive advantage over the player. There are already enough ways to open up someone to have the additional headache of worrying about someone getting a combo while you are comboing them.
I am fine with it using up red health and the way that I have set it up is that both players recover at the around the same time and you cannot raw tag until at least a few seconds after the burst. Should've mentioned that in my list.
It doesn't benefit pixie characters THAT much because using up the burst would make them free to massive X factor chip. You especially don't want to waste the burst if someone like Phoenix, Dorm or Arthur is on the opposite team.
Cloudius12
Member
Was there any other development on "Zombie" assist or any new tech?
Mr Touchdown
Member
I've been thinking of a mechanic lately that could be used in future fighters to add some real force to the end of a combo, as well as add a little bit of a meter game like TAC's. I will explain in terms of UMvC3.
So at the ends of combos, characters usually end up doing really terrible ammounts of damage due to scaling and such. This kind of annoys me. Ending a combo should have some kind of authority behind it i.e. unscaled damage. MvC3's solution is level 3 hypers. I like that idea, but there should be a way to normally punctuate a combo. My solution to an annoyance that probably only bothers me is the "Final Strike"
What it entails is that if you spend a meter, you can end a combo with a fully unscaled attack. I haven't though up specifics yet like what button combo would activate it, but I have the idea of what it can do.
Say you're coming up to the end of a combo with Magneto. You input this "Final Strike" and instead of going for a shockwave or tempest, you want to just end with a Standing Heavy for a bit of flash/reset. The stand heavy would do full unscaled damage. It would also put the opponent into a TAC Counter knockdown, so there are no continuing combos after these Final Strikes. All Final Strikes also have a lightning hit marker and a Bionic Arm hit styled pause.
Here is the twist to Final Strike, it's counter-able for 1 meter by the opponent. If the opponent can input it as the Final Strike hits, 1 meter is used and a Final Tech happens. Much like a grab tech, it sends both opponents back to a neutral state, except it flings the 2 characters apart to the distance they are at when a match starts (before the movement is enabled). The counter also recovers 1/5 of health taken by the combo where an FS was countered.
Final strike can be used to unscale moves with multiple hits and full level 1 Hypers too BUT the final strike counter input for the opponent is a lot more lenient. Each hit of a multiple hit move can be FS Countered. Counter FS can only be input once during a combo and immediately drains your 1 meter though. Counter FS can be baited with experienced play.
Have to go back to work now, but what do you guys think?
So at the ends of combos, characters usually end up doing really terrible ammounts of damage due to scaling and such. This kind of annoys me. Ending a combo should have some kind of authority behind it i.e. unscaled damage. MvC3's solution is level 3 hypers. I like that idea, but there should be a way to normally punctuate a combo. My solution to an annoyance that probably only bothers me is the "Final Strike"
What it entails is that if you spend a meter, you can end a combo with a fully unscaled attack. I haven't though up specifics yet like what button combo would activate it, but I have the idea of what it can do.
Say you're coming up to the end of a combo with Magneto. You input this "Final Strike" and instead of going for a shockwave or tempest, you want to just end with a Standing Heavy for a bit of flash/reset. The stand heavy would do full unscaled damage. It would also put the opponent into a TAC Counter knockdown, so there are no continuing combos after these Final Strikes. All Final Strikes also have a lightning hit marker and a Bionic Arm hit styled pause.
Here is the twist to Final Strike, it's counter-able for 1 meter by the opponent. If the opponent can input it as the Final Strike hits, 1 meter is used and a Final Tech happens. Much like a grab tech, it sends both opponents back to a neutral state, except it flings the 2 characters apart to the distance they are at when a match starts (before the movement is enabled). The counter also recovers 1/5 of health taken by the combo where an FS was countered.
Final strike can be used to unscale moves with multiple hits and full level 1 Hypers too BUT the final strike counter input for the opponent is a lot more lenient. Each hit of a multiple hit move can be FS Countered. Counter FS can only be input once during a combo and immediately drains your 1 meter though. Counter FS can be baited with experienced play.
Have to go back to work now, but what do you guys think?
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
When talking about bursts I assume we mean bursts that don't allow you to combo after or give the burstee the advantage. No, it needs to be like the Dark Phoenix transformation burst. Puts opponents at opposite sides and back into a neutral game.
Why would anyone do a Final Strike st.H with Magneto when they could Grav xx Tempest for way more damage? Finishing combos with hypers is the official stamp at the end of combos and they already do enough damage with most of them being mashable for easily over 200K damage even after full scaling.
Final Strikes being techable or counterable also makes them even more useless. Why even risk that? It's worse than both TACs and finishing combos with hypers.
Final Strikes need something extra to them for them to be worthwhile... like take away red health maybe.
Final Strikes being techable or counterable also makes them even more useless. Why even risk that? It's worse than both TACs and finishing combos with hypers.
Final Strikes need something extra to them for them to be worthwhile... like take away red health maybe.
That's my stance on it, burstee shouldn't be able to combo after it.
House of Paincakes
Neo Member
Dark Phoenix can actually combo after the burst if they x-factor/have the correct positional advantage, if I recall correctly. A TAC counter burst would be more like it where there is absolutely no way to combo afterward.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
How come my gif had to be posted on srk then put back on gaf for people to say anything about it :lol
Professor Beef
Banned
GAF > Internet > GAF
Mr Touchdown
Member
I used a very bad example, my apologies.
I agree with this last point you made a lot. I was thinking maybe make it 2 x unscaled damage and you regain the meter you spent on the technique. I like the refill red health idea a lot though. I just want a lot of emphasis on last hits in combos. Hypers are cool, but I want the damage to speak as well. That's the idea anyway.
Haha, wow, that is amazing. Who made that, or where did you find it?
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Alright I ended up getting the 360 version of this game. I am extremely drunk right now but it took me a good while to beat the campaign on easy, which obviously means that I suck at this game. What is a good place to start to learn combos and stuff for the characters I like? I literally ended up mashing random buttons, including the hyper, to beat Galactus, so I imagine I am pretty terrible at this game.
I also really want to read comics right now.
toastyToast
Member
lol Champ lost
Abegen's synergy is sick
Abegen's synergy is sick
Learn every character's magic series for starters (basic chains, usually some variation of L M H S air M air M air H air S) to get a feel for what works and what doesn't when it comes to move properties. I.e. for Iron Man you pretty much have to use crouching M instead of M for everything because M pushes them too far away to chain.
Posting characters your dabbling with can help because people here can give suggestions for noob combos. After you've got basic combos down you should move immediately to learning to create set ups to actually land hits.
DR2K
Banned
Play mission mode to get a basic feel for combos.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Go to mission mode. At mission 5 or 6 every character says something like "Perform an air combo". Get that down because that is the very basic-ist of combos and most easy combos revolve around that.
Ragingnight
Member
just pay little/zero attention to the assist ones at like 8/9th. Some of them are the most useless combos and make things a lot harder than they should be.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
MAMESPIDER WITH THE PERFECT ON THE EVO CHAMP
Spiderman hidden top tier?
Have you played Killa Sasa? He'll make you believe he is.
Duh
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
Meh, he also wasn't trying to lose...
Its like Goku with the Kao Ken, or like Frieza when he was fighting in his forms before his ultimate form.
Oldschoolgamer
The physical form of blasphemy
All I'm saying is that they've beaten him before.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Whenever Goku used Kaioken he meant it.
shaowebb
Member
I just spent the whole day collecting opinions from here, Shoryuken and other forums on Injustice Gods Among Us and making a video letter compiling everyone's views and my own take on things to send to NetherRealm since they asked at EVO for community feedback in making this game.
Lots of stuff getting asked and getting expressed in that video. I am wiped out.
Has MODOK and Spidey started climbing the ranks yet online here yet? I've missed out on all the aftermath since EVO yesterday.
Theory fighter time. What team would you make as your backpocket MODOK or Spidey team if you wanted one and why?
Lots of stuff getting asked and getting expressed in that video. I am wiped out.
Has MODOK and Spidey started climbing the ranks yet online here yet? I've missed out on all the aftermath since EVO yesterday.
Theory fighter time. What team would you make as your backpocket MODOK or Spidey team if you wanted one and why?
It's off of MHStinger. The idea was to get in as many Acid Rains as possible. I was planning on making a video but the timing is ridiculous (with my assists) and I've literally been training for a good few hours. fuck me.
The notation is pretty long, I'll try to abbreviate as much as possible.
(Corner)
MHStinger xx Volcano xx BC J.H xx Air Play > J.H > S.S xx Clay Pigeon xx Prop Shredder > SJC Acid Rain * 2 > S > J.S
Cold Shower xx Stinger lvl.2 (Call Zero Ryuenjin) xx BC Acid Rain * 2 > S > J.S (Can also substitute J.S w/ SJC Revolver)
Volcano > (Call Hulk Anti-air Gamma Charge) Stinger xx BC Acid rain * 2 > S > Sky Dance xx Million Dollars
If your timing is really tight you can add another Beehive > Stinger xx BC Jet Stream for another 19k damage. I failed so many times tonight that... it's not even worth it as a max damage combo but, I just like experimenting anyways.
Speaking of Zero, X-Factor 3 Zero is so much fun it's ridiculous.
Holy damn, that is a lot of Purple Rain. :lol
I know what you mean about having fun with just experimenting though. The other day, I totally devoted some time in training mode to finding assists I could abuse a jump canceled teleport off a Volcano with. I feel like there's some fun stuff there, especially after seeing Richard N. do work with that and Vergil's Rapid Slash assist.
Karsticles
Member
I bought a 50" TV today. Excited to play some Marvel on it. :-D
shaowebb
Member
Or they TAC-ed and never got him back in before 3 bars.
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
Congrats! I played it drunk on my own 50" screen yesterday, looks super awesome. So many pretty lights.
I tried the mission mode this morning with X-23 and I can see why you guys were saying the execution in this game isn't too difficult. It's not really an issue of timing for the combos, since it's pretty lenient on that front, but more an issue of remembering all the damn inputs and doing them properly in order. I got to the 8th combo in about 20 minutes, so it's much easier than SF4 when I tried doing the challenge mode back in the day. However I still get a little stuck at long combos that require a lot of directional inputs since I don't really have the dexterity to pull them off consistently.
So, last night began my Dante experiment. Jesus, he feels so slow compared to Zero / Nova / Wesker.
I need to learn how to move with him / combo. Didn't really work too hard at that last night, he's going to be my anchor, so I worked on making sure I could combo hard with Zero and Nova.
I know people have always said Zero and Dante are BFF's, but holy hell is my damage spiking. 999k damage without having to lightning loop (2 meters, admittedly) is crazy. The ONLY bad part is trying to capitalize off an air throw going backwards, but the damage off an air throw going forward is also increased.
Nova + Dante is about the same damage as Nova + Wesker (with 1 bar. DHC wise it's better), but the combo is slightly harder using Dante and have to mentally be aware of when I used my ground bounce, unlike Wesker.
I need to learn how to move with him / combo. Didn't really work too hard at that last night, he's going to be my anchor, so I worked on making sure I could combo hard with Zero and Nova.
I know people have always said Zero and Dante are BFF's, but holy hell is my damage spiking. 999k damage without having to lightning loop (2 meters, admittedly) is crazy. The ONLY bad part is trying to capitalize off an air throw going backwards, but the damage off an air throw going forward is also increased.
Nova + Dante is about the same damage as Nova + Wesker (with 1 bar. DHC wise it's better), but the combo is slightly harder using Dante and have to mentally be aware of when I used my ground bounce, unlike Wesker.
Karsticles
Member
Grats! IMO, once you get a basic ABC combo down, most of your time should go into learning the feel of a 3-character team you want to stick with for a while.
kevo_huevo
Member
now that evo's done, do you guys plan on going back to the drawing board and coming up with new teams?
i've been going through a team crisis for the past couple of months, but all i really know is i'll probably won't stop playing spencer. i just can't seem to find two other characters that really click for me that i enjoy playing.
i've been going through a team crisis for the past couple of months, but all i really know is i'll probably won't stop playing spencer. i just can't seem to find two other characters that really click for me that i enjoy playing.
Karsticles
Member
Sticking with my usual team, though a part of me really does want to use Morrigan on point. I can make so many comebacks with her without X-Factor that I wonder how things would be if I backed her properly.
I'll be getting on the PS3 soon to try the new TV out. If anyone is up for matches, it's a good time.
Yeah, canning Wesker.
Considering Dante, but also looking for additional options. Actually, would even like help with that if I fail with Dante. Who else to use as anchor?
It sucks as, individually, I love playing with all three of my dudes. Zero / Nova / Wesker. I don't want to drop any.
I've considered an alt team with Wesker on point, but don't see why I'd use that over a Zero point team at the moment.
- Status