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[Karsticles]

Roo = Ryu.

I'd also definitely consider Deadpool, and am currently thinking about a Viewtiful Joe team tbh. He's pretty sweet, just gotta get used to his movement.

Combo into slow, cr.L, call Deadpool + Pizza Slicer for scumbag unblockable? Don't know if it'd be fast enough but I want to experiment in a couple weeks. See what he can do and find some good partners for him. Maybe add Nova and/or Iron Fist.

The best assists for Deadpool, IMO, are projectile assists, because they let you do jump back, assist call, qcf.M, land, qcf.M, qcf.AA, and it all combos, Strider assist, because everyone wants to superjump against Deadpool, and he can self OTG like Wesker can, and Rapid Slash, because you can protect it and push people all the way back.

I think Deadpool/Vergil/Strider would work really well, but so would Deadpool/Hawkeye/Strider or something similar.

I think Joe + Pendulum is too amazing to pass up, but Frank West should be subbed out for someone else.

alright i'm pretty confident with Vergil/Strange/Ammy, and its actually a lot of fun sticking to something new even though I still think Doom/Ammy,Strange/Ammy,Anything/Ammy is not a good structure.

I gotta admit though, I definitely never formed a 'you dont get to press buttons team', or something formed around incoming mixups quite this strong. I had firebrand/dante/task (on vertical missles mind you) that I thought was pretty good but it did beyond pathetic damage and just doesn't win matches for me like I thought it would.

That's the frustrating thing about Firebrand teams. Theoretically, dominates after a touch. In reality, my execution just isn't good enough to lock down that victory after the first touch. Too many opportunities for things to go wrong.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Oh yeah.

Shit I'll just play that, already play Spencer/Hawkeye.

Now you get to face the dreaded slant shot trap.

*puts Spencer on team to help point character with SS
*notices how much damage Spencer does
*Team is suddenly Spencer/Sentinel/Doom

 

[shaowebb]

Slant Shot converts everything into a grounded combo and you can get two crumples.

Yeah Slant Shot combos with Iron Fist get pretty unreal in damage. Its a great assist for him if you are dedicated to TOD since his TOD with slant shot on deck are pretty easy. You still need a way to land a hit though to use this which is why I think most folks don't use Spencer + Iron Fist unless Spencer is on point and they can just TAC or something. Iron Fist mixups are hard to get and honestly most of your combos happen from throws unless you are good enough at footsies to start frametraps and mind games in the corner. Once you start that its only a matter of time, but until then you need a good beam to keep from being zoned to death and in most cases a good lock down to slow down the opponents offense long enough to get in.

I think most Iron Fist teams revolve around having a projectile assist and one stalling assist to let you start applying pressure which is why you may not be seeing combo extension Spencer used. I had to go with two projectiles to really start getting people to open up for the guy. Mainly Daggers though so I'm betting Spencer+Iron Fist with Arthur may prove pretty usable too. The best thing about Arthur's daggers are the durability and they stick around longer than some other projectiles. Anything that clears a runway for Iron Fist and isn't there and gone in a blink is pretty useful since space eaters or lockdown allow him to close gaps. The fact that his wave dash puts him inside of daggers is really useful though and I don't think any other projectile can top that for functionality for him.

 

[Professor Beef]

I think Joe + Pendulum is too amazing to pass up, but Frank West should be subbed out for someone else.

Frank has way too much synergy with the both of them to just pass up.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The fact that his wave dash puts him inside of daggers is really useful though and I don't think any other projectile can top that for functionality for him.

Isn't Triple Shot the same thing?

 

[shaowebb]

Isn't Triple Shot the same thing?

Triple shot is waaaaaaaay shorter. They both have the same startup, but triple shot is only active for around 9 frames. Daggers are active for something around 21 frames. You just can't ride inside of triple shot like you can Daggers so its a harder window to capitolize off of. Daggers buy you lots of running time to charge in.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Daggers are slower I think.

So what assist should Iron Fist be on. I figure Rising Fang helps Hawkeye zoning and extends combos for him. But doesn't crumple assist help Spencer?

Or is it Crumple into hard tag then just regular ass Spencer combo?

 

[shaowebb]

Daggers are slower I think.

So what assist should Iron Fist be on. I figure Rising Fang helps Hawkeye zoning and extends combos for him. But doesn't crumple assist help Spencer?

Or is it Crumple into hard tag then just regular ass Spencer combo?

Rising Fang assist. It makes Hawkeye unbearable along with any other zoner. You use crumple with hard tags.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Thanks.

So Slant Shot is obviously for getting people's asses back down to the ground but can I use it at all to extend combos?

Also this color synergy is yuck.

 

[Karsticles]

Watching MvC2 on the offstream, and goddamn. I forgot how much better it would be if combos didn't kill off a touch.

Frank has way too much synergy with the both of them to just pass up.

Nah. Frank benefits from Pendulum, and that's about it. That's why I would run X-23/Frank/RR, but I think Joe should have a different middle man.

I think most Iron Fist teams revolve around having a projectile assist and one stalling assist to let you start applying pressure which is why you may not be seeing combo extension Spencer used. I had to go with two projectiles to really start getting people to open up for the guy. Mainly Daggers though so I'm betting Spencer+Iron Fist with Arthur may prove pretty usable too. The best thing about Arthur's daggers are the durability and they stick around longer than some other projectiles. Anything that clears a runway for Iron Fist and isn't there and gone in a blink is pretty useful since space eaters or lockdown allow him to close gaps. The fact that his wave dash puts him inside of daggers is really useful though and I don't think any other projectile can top that for functionality for him.

Agreed.

Isn't Triple Shot the same thing?

Far less blockstun, and if you power Arthur up, the daggers have 5 durability points each, and they gain piercing, so it's basically a really long and painful beam assist. So good. Powering up Arthur needs to be a priority.

 

["God's Beard!"]

So what assist should Iron Fist be on. I figure Rising Fang helps Hawkeye zoning and extends combos for him. But doesn't crumple assist help Spencer?

OTG one helps Spencer

Far less blockstun, and if you power Arthur up, the daggers have 5 durability points each, and they gain piercing, so it's basically a really long and painful beam assist. So good. Powering up Arthur needs to be a priority.

Fire Bottle is still my favorite assist.

 

[Karsticles]

Fire Bottle is still my favorite assist.

Fire Bottle's problem is that it's total ass outside of the powerup state. :-(

 

[shaowebb]

Agreed.


Far less blockstun, and if you power Arthur up, the daggers have 5 durability points each, and they gain piercing, so it's basically a really long and painful beam assist. So good. Powering up Arthur needs to be a priority.

Definitely. Actually with Spencer assist your combos get pretty long with Iron fist. If you pop the meter chi for those I'd be curious how many bars you'd get considering they let him kill without meter pretty easily. Dark Arthur isnt' that hard to achieve on my team since I'm running Taskmaster on point zoning heavily. By the time you get through him and Rising Dragon all the way down to Arthur he is well and truly stocked for it.

Originally I had Arthur on point for the gold armor chances just to make it even more ridiculous, but since Iron Fist wasn't exactly getting a mixup off those and he was already getting in of 3 durability normal daggers it was kind of a waste and I agreed with everyone's advice that taskmaster is better to push on point regardless of Gold armor daggers being fun to have for a full match.

OTG assist helps Spencer

How many OTG's does he need? Course crescent heel means he doesn't need to jump to hit an OTG I guess. Considering Hawkeye is on the team though and Spencer is already gonna be using Hawkeye for mixups I say just leave Iron Fist on Rising Dragon though to benefit Hawkeye and leave Spencer to enjoy the raw tags off of crumples. To each their own though.

Fire Bottle's problem is that it's total ass outside of the powerup state. :-(

No Fire Bottles problem is it doesn't hit low. It just OTG's. Oh the overheads I would go for if that bottle was a low...

 

[Karsticles]

No Fire Bottles problem is it doesn't hit low. It just OTG's. Oh the overheads I would go for if that bottle was a low...

LOL. If Fire Bottle hit low every character would use it because it would be the most broken assist in the game.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Wha?

I thought Crumple> Hard tag resets the damage?

 

["God's Beard!"]

What's the best Thor BnB right now? I've got about 700k meterless with one assist.

How many OTG's does he need?

3 from assists.

 

[Karsticles]

What's the best Thor BnB right now? I've got about 700k meterless with one assist.

Dunno, but check this video out to get your juices flowing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QjvfqIQItk

 

[shaowebb]

3 from assists.

LOL. Well if nothing else they at least gain another overhead for folks to get suckered by when under Spencer pressure. I still think with Spencer sporting Hawkeye though that Iron Fist's role as an assist should be geared toward benefitting Hawkeye since Spencer already has his support covered. As is if Hawkeye gets snapped in he's not really gaining a ton of options he didn't already have from this team. Unless you count slant shot mixups.

You can expect that after using Tasky/IF/Arthur that if theres a chance to suggest using Rising Dragon with a powerful zoning counter on someone's team that I'll be leaning towards suggesting that primarily, though. Its just that ridiculous to face a powerful zoning game and then have that ridiculously fast Rising Dragon pop out cutting off parabolic angles. I can't tell you how many guys I've killed off wall bounce combos because they tried to time a jump over an aim of hawkeye only to find Iron Fist's foot was riding those arrows piggyback. It cuts off a ton of the screen and its too fast to react to in almost any situation.

 

[Professor Beef]

Nah. Frank benefits from Pendulum, and that's about it. That's why I would run X-23/Frank/RR, but I think Joe should have a different middle man.

Frank benefits from Joe's multi-hit TACs, and from Raccoon's Spring Trap for multiple level ups, as well as Pendulum. Frank/RR has more synergy than Joe/Frank, but the entire team is rock-solid. Even moreso if the person using the team is halfway decent with RR.

 

[Karsticles]

Frank benefits from Joe's multi-hit TACs, and from Raccoon's Spring Trap for multiple level ups, as well as Pendulum. Frank/RR has more synergy than Joe/Frank, but the entire team is rock-solid. Even moreso if the person using the team is halfway decent with RR.

When people say "Frank benefits from character X's TAC", it's just like when people tell me "Dark Hole is good for extending combos". When that's the argument you have to resort to, you know you've lost. No doubt Frank/RR is magic, but there's nothing going on between Frank and Joe.

 

["God's Beard!"]

YESSSSSSssssssss NEW THOR RELAUNCH ^_^

S+A2(Shuma Laser) jH xx (Hold)Mighty Strike H, S

 

[shaowebb]

Frank is a character who is generally in team's built around having a point character whose combos involve a lot of hits so he can either DHC and hit level 4-5 instantly or so he can TAC and do pretty much the same. Joe is a character with combos that involve a ton of hits who needs a good GTFO on the ground since he's only mobile in the air. Frank's cart is good for pushing folks off Joe long enough to get airborne to go for something.

I think Joe+ Frank is really good at what it does. I think they support each other just fine.

 

[Karsticles]

Frank is a character who is generally in team's built around having a point character whose combos involve a lot of hits so he can either DHC and hit level 4-5 instantly or so he can TAC and do pretty much the same. Joe is a character with combos that involve a ton of hits who needs a good GTFO on the ground since he's only mobile in the air. Frank's cart is good for pushing folks off Joe long enough to get airborne to go for something.

I think Joe+ Frank is really good at what it does. I think they support each other just fine.

It's far, far better to replace Joe with someone who can level Frank up without relying on chance.

I like X-23 because, in theory, you can DHC glitch between the two to give Frank West the double camera shot to get to level 4 instantly, and X-23 gives him a low assist to open people up with, and she has the same cross-up shenanigans Viewtiful Joe has. It's just a much better fit.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Don't Joe's Bombs let Frank do a 100 hit combo for free?

 

[Karsticles]

Don't Joe's Bombs let Frank do a 100 hit combo for free?

We're talking about people actually playing the game, though.

 

[enzo_gt]

Wha?

I thought Crumple> Hard tag resets the damage?

Not in Ultimate IIRC.

Hard tag into Doom combos I see on stream definitely still do scale. Perhaps only hitstun is reset?

 

[Dahbomb]

Don't Joe's Bombs let Frank do a 100 hit combo for free?

Depends on the player side.

 

["God's Beard!"]

We're talking about people actually playing the game, though.

Glitches are fair game :-(

Depends on the player side.

C'mon, just ask for left in a tournament. It's not like two players are gonna use it.

 

[smurfx]

so is the only other haggar player here god's beard?

 

[Professor Beef]

It's far, far better to replace Joe with someone who can level Frank up without relying on chance.

Just like it's better to not rely on TAC inifinites, yet everyone and their mother still does them because nobody bothers to block TACs.

Until people start learning to defend against them, they're still viable options.

 

[Karsticles]

so is the only other haggar player here god's beard?

Just you.

LOL @ the MvC2 RAGE. What Marvel 2 veteran could honestly call Marvel 3 random?!

 

[Karsticles]

These matches are really showing Doom's limitations. He's free meter in these matches.

Also, ChrisG needs to do some homework on Dormammu. He's missing all kinds of opportunities.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

His Hawkeye still disgusts me to no end.

 

[WesternHeretic]

Just like it's better to not rely on TAC inifinites, yet everyone and their mother still does them because nobody bothers to block TACs.

Until people start learning to defend against them, they're still viable options.

I feel like side TAC are the new things especially if you have 2 or more meters. Then once that's establish the down/up comes into play but it seems more up than down.

 

[enzo_gt]

His Hawkeye still disgusts me to no end.

It put in work and got the job done against arguably one of the best characters in the world.

Where is credit where credit is due?

 

[Dahbomb]

Someone tweeted that Hawkeye got in more wins than Morrigan. That guy was doing hard work.

Out of all the Avengers to be played in high level it had to be one with the most weaksauce gif selection.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Someone tweeted that Hawkeye got in more wins than Morrigan. That guy was doing hard work.

Out of all the Avengers to be played in high level it had to be one with the most weaksauce gif selection.

Wtf I put like 5 Hawkeye gifs here.

http://aprettypanda.minus.com/muJrJLFUg

 

[Karsticles]

His Hawkeye still disgusts me to no end.

It looks the exact same as yours. Jump back arrows, standing arrow, qcf.Arrow, repeat. It's not exactly a deep character.

 

[enzo_gt]

It looks the exact same as yours. Jump back arrows, standing arrow, qcf.Arrow, repeat. It's not exactly a deep character.

And his arrows were fairly well chosen and timed to boot!

 

[Professor Beef]

Out of all the Avengers to be played in high level it had to be one with the most weaksauce gif selection.

It helps that Hawkeye is actually a good character, unlike a certain drunkard in a metal shell.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

It looks the exact same as yours. Jump back arrows, standing arrow, qcf.Arrow, repeat. It's not exactly a deep character.

Yeah that's the problem.

He's the top player and I'm the nobody yet they are similar.

And it's not a character thing since I think Yipes' Hawkeye is way better than mine or Chris'.

 

[Karsticles]

And his arrows were fairly well chosen and timed to boot!

He seemed to love Spritzer, whereas most Hawkeye players use Greyhound in the air. I wonder what his reasoning for that choice was.

Yeah that's the problem.

He's the top player and I'm the nobody yet they are similar.

And it's not a character thing since I think Yipes' Hawkeye is way better than mine or Chris'.

I just don't feel like there's a whole lot to Hawkeye. He's like what everyone thought Arthur would have been. What's the most advanced tech he has outside of combos? Just the Dead Arrow strings, right? He doesn't really get anything out of high execution play, and he doesn't have any dirty tricks to use aside from Violet Frizz frame traps and the hail marry cross-up.

Yipes' Hawkeye might just seem better because he's not playing him against ChrisG or Champ. Maybe we'll need a ChrisG vs. Yipes FT15 to prove there's a difference. ;-)

 

[Professor Beef]

He seemed to love Spritzer, whereas most Hawkeye players use Greyhound in the air. I wonder what his reasoning for that choice was.

Doesn't it do more chip damage? Maybe he figured Champ would be blocking them more instead of hitting.

 

[Karsticles]

Doesn't it do more chip damage? Maybe he figured Champ would be blocking them more instead of hitting.

According to the guidebook, Greyhound is 50,000 x3, Spritzer is 149,000. So Greyhound should do slightly more if all 3 arrows are hitting, and it covers more space.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

According to the guidebook, Greyhound is 50,000 x3, Spritzer is 149,000. So Greyhound should do slightly more if all 3 arrows are hitting, and it covers more space.

Vs. Dorm it's probably the thing to do. Jumping late Piercing Bolt so you throw something out there and don't get Chaotic Flamed. Jumping Greyhound where 3 arrows come out I'm sure is easier for Champ to Chaotic Flame.

Congrats Chris G you made a good decision with Hawkeye.

 

[Karsticles]

Vs. Dorm it's probably the thing to do. Jumping late Piercing Bolt so you throw something out there and don't get Chaotic Flamed. Jumping Greyhound where 3 arrows come out I'm sure is easier for Champ to Chaotic Flame.

Congrats Chris G you made a good decision with Hawkeye.

Greyhound also starts up twice as fast though, so if a Chaotic Flame is coming, it has the best chance of hitting Dormammu out of it. I don't get it!

 

[enzo_gt]

Sweet, just got the shipping notice from Amazon that my MvC: The Complete Works art book

Vs. Dorm it's probably the thing to do. Jumping late Piercing Bolt so you throw something out there and don't get Chaotic Flamed. Jumping Greyhound where 3 arrows come out I'm sure is easier for Champ to Chaotic Flame.

Congrats Chris G you made a good decision with Hawkeye.

 

[Karsticles]

I tweeted some missing info to Champ and ChrisG. I hope their next set is even more intense.

 

[Dahbomb]

I tweeted some missing info to Champ and ChrisG. I hope their next set is even more intense.

Sweet.

Post it here too.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

AH SHADDUP

MY HAWKEYE IS BETTER YOU HEAR ME

MINE

I'M COMING FOR YOU CHRISTOPHER GEE MY HAWKEYE IS BOOTY BUTT CHEEKS