Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT2| New Age of Zeroes

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Random Marvel thought: There are days when I wonder why Morrigan's Deep Cresendo (f.H) or Splash Libido (f.M) OTG'd.

A Pretty Panda said:
Judging by some of the avatars around here I think Thor is S tier for sure.

Let's get this out of the way.

D Tier:
Hsien-Ko, Phoenix Wright,

Fraud Tier:
Megaman X costume
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Fix'd.

Edit: I'm down for tier talk, but I'm probably going to be all about what I've seen versus what I've experienced. Winter Brawl and EVO season coming in proper might help things along for me though.
 
Killa Sasa said:
8 Tiers? S tier?

Too much mang. That's some IGN rating system stuff :p

I think the tiers are really compressed to be honest, and S usually means "owns everyone and everything," doesn't it? Hard to say if that's applicable in this version since no one is V.Logan or V.Jean -- plus, assists mitigate a lot of the things that would separate characters.

I'll do one if I can compress it, since I think basically the entire cast is viable (there are exceptions but even they have their role).
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S tier doesn't mean that anymore. S tier just means top tier. Tiers are going to be more compressed especially compared to vanilla and everyone is viable but last time someone tried to do a tier list there were like 20 characters in A, 20 in B and then like 5 in S and C. That's not an even division and people were being too generous with some characters. I want people to be stricter and draw lines between character worth. That's what sparks debates, not 90% of the cast being crammed into 2 tiers which aren't that far apart (and for the record I actually do think the game is like that).

S TIER

Zero, Viper, Dante, Wesker, Dormammu, Strider, Doom

A+ TIER

Spencer, Vergil, Magneto, Firebrand, Felicia, Wolverine, Hawkeye

A TIER

Nova, Amaterasu, Trish, Taskmaster, Akuma, Jill, X-23, Super Skrull, Morrigan, Spider Man

B+ TIER

Ryu, Chris, Dr Strange, Frank West, Deadpool, Phoenix, Rocket Raccoon, MODOK, Storm

B TIER

Thor, Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, Viewtiful Joe, Haggar, Nemesis, Sentinel

C+ TIER

Iron Fist, She Hulk, Ghost Rider

C TIER

Shuma Gorath, Chun Li, Arthur

D TIER

Tron, Hsien Ko, Phoenix Wright


Probably going to post mine in a bit.

And yeah you read that right... Phoenix in B+ tier. Only D tier is in order.

If I had done just SABC, there would've been 20 in A, 20 in B, 7 in S and 3 in C.
 
It's just a letter guys. :/

On my list, I have a few characters changed up. Phoenix moved down to B+, Morrigan moved up to A, Strider moved up to S, Ghost Rider moved down to C+. The rest are more or less the same. The extra tiers and restrictions really made it tough and I had to think extra hard and defend my placements for them.
 
Why is Doom S tier? He has good assist and FOOT DAII, but...he has nowhere near the same class of bullshit as Zero, Dante, and especially Viper.
 
You can say that, I had him in A for a long time but Vajra, Formation B and Ourouborus put him over the top for me.

Why is Doom S tier? He has good assist and FOOT DAII, but...he has nowhere near the same class of bullshit as Zero, Dante, and especially Viper.
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Same as Strider... his assists put him over the top. He's a guaranteed tournament staple in the game, a playable anchor, insane damage/meter build, TAC combo that adds like 300K damage, easy combo conversion off of throws and FOOT DIVE plus can rushdown and zone. In the S tier he would be the character who is the worst on point but the one with the best selection of assists. The ability to just throw Doom on ANY team and it becomes better is something that is very noteworthy in a team game.

Other characters might creep into S tier. Vergil and Firebrand are dangerously close. I am pretty sure if a couple new tech is found on either of these characters it would put them over the top as well.
 
Dahbomb said:
S tier doesn't mean that anymore. S tier just means top tier. Tiers are going to be more compressed especially compared to vanilla and everyone is viable but last time someone tried to do a tier list there were like 20 characters in A, 20 in B and then like 5 in S and C. That's not an even division and people were being too generous with some characters. I want people to be stricter and draw lines between character worth. That's what sparks debates, not 90% of the cast being crammed into 2 tiers which aren't that far apart (and for the record I actually do think the game is like that).

S TIER

Zero, Viper, Dante, Wesker, Dormammu, Strider, Doom

A+ TIER

Spencer, Vergil, Magneto, Firebrand, Felicia, Wolverine, Hawkeye

A TIER

Nova, Amaterasu, Trish, Taskmaster, Akuma, Jill, X-23, Super Skrull, Morrigan, Spider Man

B+ TIER

Ryu, Chris, Dr Strange, Frank West, Deadpool, Phoenix, Rocket Raccoon, MODOK, Storm

B TIER

Thor, Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, Viewtiful Joe, Haggar, Nemesis, Sentinel

C+ TIER

Iron Fist, She Hulk, Ghost Rider

C TIER

Shuma Gorath, Chun Li, Arthur

D TIER

Tron, Hsien Ko, Phoenix Wright

And yeah you read that right... Phoenix in B+ tier. Only D tier is in order.

If I had done just SABC, there would've been 20 in A, 20 in B, 7 in S and 3 in C.
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It's funny, I look at this and understand your reasoning behind Wesker being up there, but I can't agree to that placing. Something's saying he should be A+, mostly because most characters in that S ground shut down most of his options (although not flat out like V.Zero vs. V. Wesker).

Am I making any sense here? :lol
 
Yes you are making sense. Wesker is up there because he has one thing that no other S tier character has... EASE. The balance of damage, execution, tool set, health, normals and general attributes is too much in his favor where anyone who has solid fundamentals can win with Wesker. In terms of match up Wesker gets beat by many of the S tiers and even some in A tiers. But this is a team game and Wesker with Vajra assist shuts down many things in the game he wouldn't otherwise.

Plus OTG gun shot is still godly due to the whole assist scaling change. Phantom Dance is literally the most random move in the game where a game can be won on a coin flip because of it. Wesker in conjunction with his ground dash, teleport and low recovery on command throw is also INSANELY good. Glasses off Wesker is essentially buffed Vanilla Wesker.

As long as this game is played by humans, Wesker is S tier.
 
Ultimoo said:
what combo are you using?

j.HxxBonne Strike H + s.LMHS + j.MHS + d.Hxxf.H?
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The combo Seph was using on me was:

j.Hxx Bonne Strike H > s.LM > j.MS. st.S > j.MMHS

should be corner. Not sure if that was the right set of buttons but it is similar.
The first jump S will bounce them off the ground.
 
This game is in a serious need of a rebalance, beyond nerfing a borderline useless character. The 1 hit kill combos need to gtfo, and the hit stun scaling needs some serious reworking, otgs should cost meter, hitboxes need to make a little more sense, throws need to get nerfed, there should be some punishment for overly zoning and running away. Blazblue punishes bitch play, so should UMVC3.
 
DR2K said:
This game is in a serious need of a rebalance, beyond nerfing a borderline useless character. The 1 hit kill combos need to gtfo, and the hit stun scaling needs some serious reworking, otgs should cost meter, hitboxes need to make a little more sense, throws need to get nerfed, there should be some punishment for overly zoning and running away.
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Salty from being spammed to death? Get better.

OTG costing a meter is a good troll though.
 
I really don't know how Capcom can implement a system for punishing zoners in a game where one touch usually leads to death and there are characters with insane mobility options and teleports. I guess they can put in moves like an invincible Berserker Slash to shit on the zoning teams completely... OH WAIT!
 
DR2K said:
This game is in a serious need of a rebalance, beyond nerfing a borderline useless character. The 1 hit kill combos need to gtfo, and the hit stun scaling needs some serious reworking, otgs should cost meter, hitboxes need to make a little more sense, throws need to get nerfed, there should be some punishment for overly zoning and running away. Blazblue punishes bitch play, so should UMVC3.
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1 hit kills can go, sure. Especially off cr. L.

OTG's costing meter is cray-cray. Window should be tighter though so you can't make a sandwich in between.

Hit stun makes sense for most characters. Again, there are exceptions.

Hitboxes are probably what Capcom has the most trouble with, judging by all of their games.

Throws keep up back in check. Damage should be checked, most characters are proper on it though.

And punishing zoning in this game? When auto-mixup and rushdown in general is by far the dominant form of play?

Serious rebalance 3 months in...no. Way too much to be discovered, matchups to be actually learned, and general variables in a TEAM GAME OF 50 CHARACTERS. I don't get why people overlook the fact that none of the surfaces have really been scratched.

In the grand scheme of things, this is probably the most balanced VS game (TvC UAS -- Zero sez hi). It's bullshit vs bullshit, and every character has some.

Sometimes the age of patching really makes me smh. You don't have to like the game, hell, don't even have to play it. But let it stew so an actual meta-game can evolve from the players. That's what makes fighters actually have a chance to be good.

Vanilla was different with the Mario Party element of Phoenix and Logan to a lesser extent. There is semblance of a neutral game in this.
 
Way more dignified of a response than it deserved.

To D2RK:

*Hit stun needs tweaking for certain characters and in general needs to kick in harder when something like cr.L is used to start (or certain moves like FOOT DIVE). For particular characters, harder combos should reward appropriately (for someone like Shuma it's fine, for someone like Chun Li and Sentinel it's grossly disproportionate).

*OTG costing meter is dumb. Has to be a troll. Might as well ask for launchers to cost meters too along with wall bounces and ground bounces. TAC costing meter on the hand is a much better request.

*Throws are fine for most characters but it needs to be more generalized as in certain situations a character can't get ANYTHING from a throw while others can get a TOD in that same situation. Damage scaling for some need fixing, Spencer/Zero/Viper are red flags in this area.

*Punishing zoning is dumb, rushdown is still the dominant play style.

*TODs are fine as long as they are on Strider class healths and require high execution. TODs on 1 million health starting off 0 meter no assists need tweaking.

*WAY TOO EARLY FOR MAJOR PATCHES. I wouldn't want one until at least after EVO.
 
Dahbomb said:
Way more dignified of a response than it deserved.
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I know, I thought of just posting a dismissive gif but maybe he/people who don't have a great grasp on the game just don't know any better.

Yes, I've seen his posts in the past :p it was more for people who really don't know what legitimately should be tweaked in the game.
 
Otgs either should be limited to 1 per combo like bounces or hard knockdown time should be lessened with each successful Otg like in 2.

crossover combinations should be selectable from available list of hypers

more assist choices

Meter limit set to unlimited. 5 is a holdover from marvel 2 and is just archaic.

Xfactor and TACs are still bs but it's clear at this point Capcom isn't going to to change anything about them.

Crazy wish mechanic that will never be implemented: Whiffed specials build meter.

Pet peeve of the day: Special button should be more special. Besides flight, launchers and Atk+S it's not even used much for anything. They fixed that a bit in Umvc but barely.
 
Ogrekiller said:
Otgs either should be limited to 1 per combo like bounces or hard knockdown time should be lessened with each successful Otg like in 2.

crossover combinations should be selectable from available list of hypers

more assist choices

Meter limit set to unlimited. 5 is a holdover from marvel 2 and is just archaic.

Xfactor and TACs are still bs but it's clear at this point Capcom isn't going to to change anything about them.

Crazy wish mechanic that will never be implemented: Whiffed specials build meter.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HHkJH_0leU

Rainbow Marvel vs Capcom 3 would exist :lol

I'll post a tier list eventually, maybe later tonight after I stop procrastinating from writing more T_T
 
Dahbomb said:
Way more dignified of a response than it deserved.

To D2RK:

*Hit stun needs tweaking for certain characters and in general needs to kick in harder when something like cr.L is used to start (or certain moves like FOOT DIVE). For particular characters, harder combos should reward appropriately (for someone like Shuma it's fine, for someone like Chun Li and Sentinel it's grossly disproportionate).

*OTG costing meter is dumb. Has to be a troll. Might as well ask for launchers to cost meters too along with wall bounces and ground bounces. TAC costing meter on the hand is a much better request.

*Throws are fine for most characters but it needs to be more generalized as in certain situations a character can't get ANYTHING from a throw while others can get a TOD in that same situation. Damage scaling for some need fixing, Spencer/Zero/Viper are red flags in this area.

*Punishing zoning is dumb, rushdown is still the dominant play style.

*TODs are fine as long as they are on Strider class healths and require high execution. TODs on 1 million health starting off 0 meter no assists need tweaking.
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With the elimination of brainless touch of deaths, there needs to be something done about chicken gaurding, throws, otg. It's just too good and it kills diversity in playstle.

OTGs should cost something. If not meter then a ton of hitstun decay.

Killa Sasa said:
Serious rebalance 3 months in...no. Way too much to be discovered, matchups to be actually learned, and general variables in a TEAM GAME OF 50 CHARACTERS. I don't get why people overlook the fact that none of the surfaces have really been scratched.
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Oh no it definitely needed asap, 40+ are not going to get explored with as much depth because we already know whos the boss in this game*cough*Wesker based teams*cough*. Like MVC2 the hole has been drilled, there are some loop holes, but just about everything wrong with the game is known. There's going to be a lot of unkowns with the shittier characters, but once there's a reason for people to touch them we'll never know. Who's to say hsienko isn't secret god tier?
 
I would totally, totally be down for custom assists/crossover combinations. Just wanted to say that after Ogre touched on it lightly with his list. So much stupid would happen instantly with just that. Rainbow Mahvel indeed.

I wanna play the list wars game revolving around system direction too, but it's late and I desperately need sleep. I'll put something up on that and tiers later.
 
Oh and more hypers for everyone. Why should Ryu, taskmaster Vergil have what amounts to 20 hypers between the 3 of them is baffling.

More air hypers and moves in general would be nice. Zangief had an air lariat. If haggar had that...

Oh and DHCs should be altered so that inputting the motion + assist would dhc to the relevant hyper of the assist character button pressed. Only being able to dhc to your 2nd character is dumb. You can't call assists during hypers anyway.

air and grab assists would be rad as well.
 
I may or may not make a tier list. I tend to have trouble tiering past the top 10/15, lol. Plus, in a team game, tier lists are harder to make since with the right team, even lesser characters can be really good.

Dahbomb said:
*TODs are fine as long as they are on Strider class healths and require high execution. TODs on 1 million health starting off 0 meter no assists need tweaking.
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I've got a 1 million meter positive Dante/Vergil/Strider combo starting from zero bars. It's pretty funny.

AzureJericho said:
I would totally, totally be down for custom assists/crossover combinations. Just wanted to say that after Ogre touched on it lightly with his list. So much stupid would happen instantly with just that. Rainbow Mahvel indeed.
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I don't know if I want to imagine a world where I can select Fireworks as an assist.
 
Solune said:
So after 30 mins, I can't get the 3rd relaunch to work with Taskmaster... Zero extended BnB works with Haggar(Works with Pipe or Lariat) perfectly though. Does 750k starting with S.L or C.L, does 800k starting with C.M.

Also DHC into Haggar OR Taskmaster does +150k~ (Taskmaster does more + He can followup into TK super again)

There is a way to slightly increase your normal damage if you use Taskmaster Vertical Assist during your second launch, if you have Taskmaster hit during you air combo, cancel your attack into Raikousen H > Buster > Sentsuizan. Tech stolen ala Nini Heart Doom combo, does around + 40k.

Guess I am still fraudulent =p
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can you post the inputs?
 
Ultimoo said:
what combo are you using?

j.HxxBonne Strike H(or air version,more safe) + s.LMxxf.M + j.HS + s.HS + j.HS + d.Hxxf.H?
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fixed

also at the end, I call chun li lightning legs assist and get them with beacon bomb H then 2 servbot super and 1 lunch rush just like in vanilla.
 
You can't just decide that S doesn't mean god tier any more because assholes throw it around every time they like to bitch -_-

The only S tier character is Firebrand.
 
Ogrekiller said:
Otgs either should be limited to 1 per combo like bounces or hard knockdown time should be lessened with each successful Otg like in 2.

crossover combinations should be selectable from available list of hypers

more assist choices

Meter limit set to unlimited. 5 is a holdover from marvel 2 and is just archaic.

Xfactor and TACs are still bs but it's clear at this point Capcom isn't going to to change anything about them.

Crazy wish mechanic that will never be implemented: Whiffed specials build meter.

Pet peeve of the day: Special button should be more special. Besides flight, launchers and Atk+S it's not even used much for anything. They fixed that a bit in Umvc but barely.
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I have trouble understanding why OTGs should be limited, that would completely change the way certain characters get their damage IE Dante. Also they have fixed HSD in general, especially with assists and changed many moves already that have lost hardknock down after additional uses, like Chris' magnum.

Agreed with 2 and 3.

Meter limit I am somewhat for but also against, Jean's balance is completely based around this. Also net meter gain substantially nerfed, and damage output increased in general to offset this. ToD's without infinites or resets exist for this reason. The game would have to be completely rebalanced again.

Most people hate Xfactor not gonna touch that.
I actually like TACs because they lead to crazy shit like Vanilla Sentinel combos and crazy ass Ultimate Doom combos. What I do think they need is to be adjusted because well, not everyone can utilize them, much like OTGs.

Whiffing specials for meter is OK for me, Increases keepaway viability, especially in a game without CC or Cable. This would also bring Storm that much closer to glory days.

My Not So Much Pet Peeve: Give Jill MvC2 alt with moveset. She's good in this game though.
smurfx said:
can you post the inputs?
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Sure

Haggar Assist combo:

L,M,H,S or C.M,C.H,S > JM,M,H,S > Sentsuizan H > Buster > Raikousen L > C.H,F.H,S > JM,M,H,S > Sentsuizan H > Buster > Raikousen L > Press S+Haggar Assist simultaneously > J.S(on the way up) > J.S(on the way down) > Rekkouha.

780k ~ 820k damage

Taskmaster Vertical Assist combo:

L,M,H,S or C.M,C.H,S > JM,M,H,S > Sentsuizan H > Buster > Raikousen L > Call Taskmaster while Zero is still in the air > S > JM (Twice depending on timing) > Raikousen H > Buster > Sentsuizan H > Rekkouha.

730k~ damage

Honestly the Taskmaster combo isn't worth it because it's inconsistent in the timing. But it's there if you want the option, but knowing your playstyle it's probably better to go with Horizontal for the mixup =p.

Also I found my camcorder today, I will post some vids tomorrow hopefully.
 
Solune said:
I have trouble understanding why OTGs should be limited, that would completely change the way certain characters get their damage IE Dante. Also they have fixed HSD in general, especially with assists and changed many moves already that have lost hardknock down after additional uses, like Chris' magnum.

Agreed with 2 and 3.

Meter limit I am somewhat for but also against, Jean's balance is completely based around this. Also net meter gain substantially nerfed, and damage output increased in general to offset this. ToD's without infinites or resets exist for this reason. The game would have to be completely rebalanced again.

Most people hate Xfactor not gonna touch that.
I actually like TACs because they lead to crazy shit like Vanilla Sentinel combos and crazy ass Ultimate Doom combos. What I do think they need is to be adjusted because well, not everyone can utilize them, much like OTGs.

Whiffing specials for meter is OK for me, Increases keepaway viability, especially in a game without CC or Cable. This would also bring Storm that much closer to glory days.

My Not So Much Pet Peeve: Give Jill MvC2 alt with moveset. She's good in this game though.

Sure

Haggar Assist combo:

L,M,H,S or C.M,C.H,S > JM,M,H,S > Sentsuizan H > Buster > Raikousen L > C.H,F.H,S > JM,M,H,S > Sentsuizan H > Buster > Raikousen L > Press S+Haggar Assist simultaneously > J.S(on the way up) > J.S(on the way down) > Rekkouha.

780k ~ 820k damage

Taskmaster Vertical Assist combo:

L,M,H,S or C.M,C.H,S > JM,M,H,S > Sentsuizan H > Buster > Raikousen L > Call Taskmaster while Zero is still in the air > S > JM (Twice depending on timing) > Raikousen H > Buster > Sentsuizan H > Rekkouha.

730k~ damage

Honestly the Taskmaster combo isn't worth it becomes it's inconsistent in the timing. But it's there if you want the option, but knowing your playstyle it's probably better to go with Horizontal for the mixup =p.

Also I found my camcorder today, I will post some vids tomorrow hopefully.
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If Otgs are not limited then everyone should get one that doesn't need to use meter. Dante alone has more otg options without meter than 5 members of the cast combined.

Phoenix can just use ALL your meter, with 5 being the minimum needed to activate.
 
I just started working on Vergil. Is there a post, here or SRK, that discusses Vergil's neutral game? I find lots of combos, lots of tricks, resets, but I'm looking for what I should be doing midscreen. Which buttons to use, not to use, etc. Sure I can do a fancy combo with teleports and round trips and spiral swords, but I'm loss on what to do when I'm just staring at the guy.

I've been doing a lot of Hawkeye arrow assist/behind the back teleports.
 
Oldschoolgamer said:
Why is Doom S tier? He has good assist and FOOT DAII, but...he has nowhere near the same class of bullshit as Zero, Dante, and especially Viper.
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His Footdive S is real good though, and all 3 of his assists, and the fact that his combos are kinda braindead and lead to 800k combos. Builds good meter, ect. Hes real good. Top 5 easily.


Anyone else feel that Hawkeye is way overrated?
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Yes and no. I think hes in that 6-15 area. But i think his popularity has made Taskmaster underrated. Taskmaster is easily top 10 in this game.
 
I get that with DOOM, but again...he doesn't have nearly the same amount of tools as Zero, Viper, Dante, or even Firebrand. He's not that great on anchor, and while his TAC does add 300K...it's still that, a TAC. I really don't think a TAC combo should even begin to be added as a useful tool, since it's so risky to go for in the first place.

His DHCs aren't that great unless you're in the corner...for certain and his ability to transition from zoning to rushdown is...okay and halfway obvious as hell.

Doom is great and has way to much time to otg people, but he doesn't have nearly enough cheap shit to be considered S tier, to me. All S tier characters have that special bullshit that separates the normal characters from the Gods.



Edit: Let me rephrase that, why aren't there more team tiers yet? Solo tiers are fine and all, but unless you really stand out, this is a team game.
 
Doom is S tier due to the team synergy he provides. Certain characters can be moved onto several different teams due to there synergy where others can't but the ability they provide on point is stupid.

Doom is one of the synergy kings as is Dante, Wesker, Hawkeye yet still have point ability. IM has trouble on point right now, and if he ever got a more constant showing, he may move up.
 
No matter how I look at it, I don't need to post an opinion on a tier list since Dah's pretty much hits the right notes with the caveat of Ammy being A+ rather than A. If I wasn't having a massive cognitive dissonance going on, I'd say Wesker belonged in that group too, but ease absolutely cannot be understated, especially given Wesker's ability to do DAT DAMAGE (forget about tools for a second). If he were toned down damage wise, he'd totally drop a rank at least in most folks eyes.

And now as I'm writing this, I'm kinda wondering if Jean should be B+ instead of low A. She isn't JEEEEEEEEAN anymore, sure, but she still has most of her good tricks. Holding on to meter and meter gain seem to be the two hardest parts of her archetype to deal with in game as of now.

God's Beard said:
More characters. I want more characters.
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Best answer right here.

Others have broken down the system direction stuff better than I could and made more eloquent points regarding as much, but the only things I can touch on are:

- All characters should have at least one sensible OTG that scales things accordingly depending on the ease with which they work. There's no reason Hsien Ko's goddamned c.H shouldn't OTG (let alone Anki Hou H on descent), Chun can't have Hazanshu, Morrigan can't get anything going with f.M/f.H/down forward air fireballs, Strange's Daggers, V. Joe's bombs (pre-explosion)/Red Hot Kick... etc. etc. Hitstun decay should be put in place to prevent folks from going endlessly about with one combo if they were afraid of multiple OTGs facilitating shenanigans.

- ToDs can go, but not via artificial means. If you're doing shit that requires dexterity for the sake of the damage, cool you keep the damage but you won't get free KOs off it. Shit like ABCS-MMHS-df.H xx Hyper though? Fuck outta here. :lol

- Don't agree with infinite meter, otherwise Sparda Bros, the Maverick Hunter and a quite a few characters become exponentially scarier with a good Battery, a meter building assist or in Zero's case just by playing the damn game. :lol

This is taken to Rainbow Edition/SF3 Chun back fierce heights with meter build on whiff.

- My crazy wish mechanic? X-Factor loses stat bonuses and becomes a straight Roman Cancel-like with the current XFC properties requiring (up to) 1 meter for use depending on how far in an animation it's triggered. Hypers would be taxed further depending on what level was used however. This would have been pretty awesome back in Vanilla with it's crazy assed meter gain, I figured if you're going to build so much of it, why not put it to use in a secondary metagame?

- Random nitpick? Why does this game make me want to play everybody and then complain that there still aren't enough characters? :lol
 
Grecco said:
Firebrand? Now thats an overrated character.
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When there is another character that can 300% a team off of a cr.L... that will be the day when Firebrand is deemed overrated.

Sure I can do a fancy combo with teleports and round trips and spiral swords, but I'm loss on what to do when I'm just staring at the guy.
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Teleport H, Helm Breaker + call assist, Teleport M. Helm Breaker is safe and cancellable so spam that when you have assist available. Without assist available you want to be doing some normals jump j.H/j.M, tossing out Round Trips if you have charge available, bidding time with Judgment Cut, poking with your st.L while dashing in and have them block. Don't throw out st.H/st.S unless st.S is for anti-air or st.H is for a 3/4th screen punishment. You should be using this time to pick up on opponent habits and find places where you can either teleport around him, whiff punish him or get him locked in Round Trip. When you have assist available you ARE going in for the mix up and if they block it put them in a RT block string for additional mix ups. IF things get desperate... burn meter for Spiral Swords or DT for additional neutral game advantage. The rest of the tips are match up dependent.
 
Oh oh oh SEN please.

I don't know why but Ghost Rider seems to give Hawkeye some trouble. Like, from fullscreen he will superjump forward. Strider for whatever reason will always miss no matter when I call him. Then while he comes down from the super jump he uses j.S. Which I swear will beat anything and everything Hawkeye has save Gimlet. And whether he is midscreen, in my face, or just a step away from the corner. The dude can just H or 2H me. Even if I pushblock, it seems like he's always in range for the chain. This annoys me of course, I try and do something dumb, maybe shoot an arrow while he can hit me with H, and Hawkeye dies! I would think on paper Ghost Rider gets shit on by Hawkeye but apparently not. Or maybe I was just playing the greatest Ghost Rider known to man and my Hawkeye is too green.

Chris also has 2 moves that work pretty well vs Hawkeye. Superjump Magnum takes off a dumb amount of life if it hit. Even if I call Vajra and it trades it's a crappy trade on my end. Then there's always the possibility of a bad Strider Call on my part and Magnum hits both of us. Then there's that stance Chris has when he is lying on his stomach. No horizontal arrow can hit him. And seemingly none of my vertical arrows come out in time. Vajra works but again must be timed. Command Jump into an arrow is the only thing besides Gimlet that stops this.

This has been "I suck with Hawkeye" story time with A Pretty Panda.
 
Dahbomb said:
When there is another character that can 300% a team off of a cr.L... that will be the day when Firebrand is deemed overrated.
Click to expand...

Yet no one uses him for a reason. He sucks compared to characters that win without the gimmicks ad just exploit the stupid system.
 
A Pretty Panda said:
Then there's that stance Chris has when he is lying on his stomach. No horizontal arrow can hit him. And seemingly none of my vertical arrows come out in time. Vajra works but again must be timed. Command Jump into an arrow is the only thing besides Gimlet that stops this.
Click to expand...

I remember reading a story about how someone used Chris' prone stance with Eye of Agamotto assist. He made someone ragequit with that nonsense.
KuGsj.gif
 
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