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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
diztrukted
Member
exactly
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
Yea that was a really tough team for me. I already have a tough time against Dormammu and I am not very experienced Phoenix since the Vanilla days. I feel you team if a pretty good counter to mine. I would like to practice some snap in setups but I rarely feel like I need to. I usually focused on powering my team up and not trying to stop somebody else's team from powering up. With Morigan backing up your meter gain you can get your five bars pretty easily since your on point character does pretty well against me. I felt my best chance was to get tournabout Wright, save X-Factor and wait for DP. As long as I survived the incoming I felt like I had a good chance. My plan was to use Order in the Court invincibility > X-Factor Cancel > Maya Super > put you in block stun > J.H. unblockable or just time a Ace Attorney super if there is an opening. That was the plan at least.
The opening moments against Wesker went better than I thought. The new air dash maneuverability I've been practicing really changed the Hulk and Wesker matchups for me, and I wasn't nearly as afraid of both of them as I usually am. I could tell you were having more trouble AAing me with Hulk as a result. I'm still scrubby with Phoenix (especially Dark Phoenix), but that will change with time.
Dude I could definitely tell. Your Dorm feels like he's only on the ground to do a special move and cancel into a super any other time your tridashing fricking everywhere. I gotta learn to do mini up back blocks against you instead of just crouching blocks. I feel the only time my Wesker wrecked shit up was when I put him first. I either steam rolled you at the begining or you steam rolled me.
Also the one match we played I had the most bad evidence in a rows I have ever had. Nine times in a row. Seven bads and 3 meat buns. I literally said what the fuck!? I can usually deal with bad evidence not so bad but fuck that.
I'm curious what you thought of the team, and @Solune and you: what do you think of tagging Phoenix in early to get her Dark so I can re-acquire meter vs. burning meter with Dormammu and re-topping myself to 5 bars? I feel like I have mixed success with both approaches.
I think you adapted the right idea of only using meter when
A. You had 5 bars and all three characters left
B. A choatic flame would kill a character
Your Dorm is great so I don't feel he is handicapped at the starting position, but Dorm is at his best when he has meter and a Phoenix team always needs meter on the back burner. So against a team that does decent against him or a really good player I don't think Dorm is your strongest choice. Morrigan of course is excellent on the team for obvious reasons.
Killa Sasa
Member
Check one of my first posts in the Lupinko UMVC3 threads.
Was gonna run the space cop back then.
/hipster doofus
I had a chance to watch the video finally- that's not the combo I gave you, it's the Maziodyne loop. It's much more difficult than his 'normal' corner loops (though it's becoming the standard corner loop in tourney play).
I made a quick video of the combo I posted notation for earlier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9GZqIJG9Os
edit: oops, DP
Dude, thanks! I'll practice this one today.
MiniBossBattle
Member
Thats my team! Its fun.
I'm working on a corner loop over here for Strider that does the biggest non-meter or X-Factor damage I've seen the little guy do ever (~520K omitting the s.M) but seemingly can't be followed up with anything but a TAC on the third or so relaunch or a Air Series j.S (which you can't land from in time to set up Oki or even do Legion super), gaiz halp.
Notation:
j.H/S - s.MH - f.H - Gram L - Formation B Shot - Gram L - Formation B Summon - Formation B Shot - s.S - j.H xx Gram L - (land) - Formation B Summon - Formation B Shot - s.S...
After that point you'd either TAC to someone for the last bits of damage/combo extension or do j.HS. There is one more idea I want to play with where you do an empty double jump then hit them with a j.S to see if you can land with them and go into Legion, but I don't have that timing down yet (if it's even possible).
Notation:
j.H/S - s.MH - f.H - Gram L - Formation B Shot - Gram L - Formation B Summon - Formation B Shot - s.S - j.H xx Gram L - (land) - Formation B Summon - Formation B Shot - s.S...
After that point you'd either TAC to someone for the last bits of damage/combo extension or do j.HS. There is one more idea I want to play with where you do an empty double jump then hit them with a j.S to see if you can land with them and go into Legion, but I don't have that timing down yet (if it's even possible).
Karsticles
Member
Well, I think you got me with both of your setups once each, so it's not a bad plan! It's definitely not an easy team for yours to fight. I'll have to mess with things to see if there are ways to down the Maya shield without burning meter, though, because I'd rather not have to do that. Maybe Dark Hole + TK Overdrive will burn it down...turning on the PS3 to test that now...yep.
It's like footsies at superjump height - I love it. I really thought I'd have a harder time with Wesker using Dormammu on point, but it's been so long since I tried (Vanilla) that I didn't know what to expect. I was pleasantly surprised to find Wesker's walk speed to be just slightly better than Dormammu's so I could s.M into Flame Carpet at the start. I'm having to relearn a weird mix of Vanilla Dormammu and Ultimate Dormammu to make this work (c.M was godlike in Vanilla, but I hardly use it in Ultimate).
I saw that! I didn't count, but there was a match where I thought "holy crap, that's a lot of bad evidence".
Yeah, I'm still iffy on when to burn meter in a combo. If I Chaotic Flame, I get a Dark Harmonizer + Dark Matter afterwards which can lead to full combos. If I just use Purification, then I have to go for a teleport mix-up or something. I'm still messing with it.
Honestly, the only teams that scare me with point Dormammu are Wolverine/Akuma, Vergil/Strider, Wesker/Strider, Dante/Strider and Hawkeye/Strider. After playing Sollune, I feel much more comfortable against Chris. Basically, Strider is a piece of work, and Wolverine at the start of the round is brutal. I might put Morrigan on point against Wolverine, but Morrigan on point won't help with any of the Strider teams (heck, she does worse than Dormammu against them).
The unfly part is nowhere near being consistent yet haha. I get it maybe about 5% of time. Thanks for the advise though, I can get the cr.M now. Hopefully I can at least get it 25% of the time by the end of the week. I think I've practiced that combo alone in the lab for about a good 2 hours now.
Karsticles
Member
I can do his combos since I mess with him in training mode, but I find his personality abrasive enough that I've never given him serious use in matches. At most I whored him out for the assist for Dormammu since it's so good (top 5).
seems like a waste to use nova's barrier assist. go with his overhead assist and try getting some unblockables thanks to hawkeye's lows and slide. not a big fan of hawkeye without some kind of projectile assist. you have to jump too much to zone with him and that leaves you open to air throws and it also lets people chase you down quicker as they can just duck your arrows. yeah jam session helps keep people out but it won't be enough.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I played Hawkeye/Doom/Strider a few weeks ago to fuck around and it was the stupidest shit.
Didn't even need to call Vajra.
Didn't even need to call Vajra.
It is a fantastic team. If I was good with Strider I would run it.
Quick Nova/Spencer question. I always see players do the Spencer assist into crumple rocket punch, and tag in Doom or Dante or Strange, etc. The problem is that the tag never comes out in time. I just did Spencer assist, so there is a cooldown before I can tag anyone in. What can I do to speed up the process?
There's a timing where you can call Spencer earlier but still connect sS TK H Rocket Punch.
WesternHeretic
Member
Tiger knee your rocket punch. Sometimes I get it even w/o TK... lol I think TK just makes it a lot more consistent.
Made a video for this specifically. Anyone want to chime in? I'm also looking for neat ways to get Burn Kick/Jam Session into Strider combos.
SolarKnight
Member
What if you replace the last Formation B relaunch with Jam Session+slide and see what you can get?
Tried this a few times already and the hitstun is nuts. At most, I can call a Bird Bomb and get that much before the flip out.
With the first variant of the combo, I can't land fast enough to even attempt that.
Edit: And now, an hour later, I have some cool as shit ideas to try out. Yay me!
Edit 2: WTFFFFF I think I found some stupid little tech here. Did anyone else know that you could call an assist while on the wall if you press a normal during your time on the wall?
So regardless of how long you've been doing the wall-cling, as long as you press l, m, or h you can call assists? I'm terrible at using wall cling outside of combos and welcome mix-ups so I've never messed around with it. I assume you could do something then like wall cling, whiff l on the wall, call hidden missiles, and then quickly switch to the opposite wall to protect the assist call or stuff like that.
Yeah. The funny part is, I'm definitely of the belief that this was unintentionally left in. Sticking to the wall doing nothing and side switching both don't allow you to call any assists but as soon as you press a normal, during the entire animation of the normal, you have access to both assists. Sets up some bonkers looking shit with Jam Session currently, and I think I have one or two new combo routes to try with that and Burn Kick assist now.
Top three things I want changed:
Zero's damage scaling reduced to the same as Dante's.
Round Trip/Eye Laser/whatever glitch removed.
TACs now cost meter (up-one meter, side- half meter, down-free), hit stun scaling is reset like it is currently after a TAC but it immediately starts re-accumulating post-TAC.
Zero's damage scaling reduced to the same as Dante's.
Round Trip/Eye Laser/whatever glitch removed.
TACs now cost meter (up-one meter, side- half meter, down-free), hit stun scaling is reset like it is currently after a TAC but it immediately starts re-accumulating post-TAC.
I would just make TACs identical to TVC and remove the infinites
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Yeah leave.
Karsticles
Member
Remind me of TvC's TAC mechanics? I know they weren't random, which is the #1 issue for me.
SolarKnight
Member
Spend 1 bar to tag in the next character. There's no guessing nor meter gain/drain nor hsd reset iirc.
Karsticles
Member
100% perfect, assuming the tagged in character builds no meter (otherwise people would always TAC to Doom and rebuild the bar).
TACs have 4 problems, in order:
1) Random
2) HSD reset
3) Steal opponents meter/free bar of meter
4) Post-TAC meter gain
"God's Beard!"
Member
Lose the meter gain from post-TAC combos and they're pretty much fixed.
Box dash has decent speed if you want movement at normal jump height. Plink dashing the ground dash makes it less garbage. You space yourself with normals and up/down air dash in the air. On the ground you use cr.H cancel into either Unibeam or Repulsar.
After the KK you should learn some aerial confirms which are going to be at least as hard but very important for IM. Confirming a full combo from a sj.H grows hair on your chest.
How do you box dash?
And what would be his best/most important aerial confirm to learn?
Karsticles
Member
First is okay, second is ass.
I didn't even understand what "low combo" meant until I thought about who was saying it.
Mess with Skrull's assists to see if any (or which) allow for pick-ups off of Wolverine air throws, and use whichever one does.
Do random Meteor Smash + Sentinel Force a lot (if it hits, you can j.MHS to bring your opponent down into a combo, or qcf.L, qcb.H quickly).
Use jump, IAD, d+H a lot.
Go for command grabs whenever someone tries to duck under Sentinel Force, or before it gets to your opponent.
Master the Rolling Hook input.
Use f.H and df.H a lot - they're good moves.
Know that Orbital Grudge has super armor.
s.H is like +3 on block or something. Don't worry about it using up your ground bounce, it's not a big deal since Skrull can OTG via wall bounce or ground bounce.
Dash, s.H is a strangely good approach/move, and crosses under on incoming.
s.L is low.
Remember that he can Meteor Smash in the air now.
Inferno XFCed causes a hard knockdown. s.H (Charge) afterward to get a full combo if you catch two with Meteor Smash.
Inferno, XFC, Inferno kill almost any assist in the game.
Skrull Torch is a piece of crap aside from startup invincibility (which it doesn't have much of).
Skrull's level 3 is primarily good for punishing, and it hits high, which most people don't know (lol @ down-backing).
Um, that's all I can think of right now. Skrull isn't low combo FYI, you can always master his infinite in training mode to feel good. ;-)
d,d+H is your taunt, not the select button.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Hey Karst give me Skrull tips for my low-combo team of Wolverine/Skrull/Sentinel.
Box dash is just a forward air dash low to the ground.
Give me a second so I can find some aerial confirms. People use different confirms that suits their style.
I use this one it's the easiest for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-thaVZCGCQ4&sns=em
Sweet, will practice that as well.
So when exactly would you use the KK combo? It seems like the hit confirm is only possible if you're in fly mode.
You would use it for all ground hit confirms.
You would start off with either cr.L or cr.M (depending upon distance), then do st.H Fly. If it's blocked or whiffed you would still be safe and can go for a j.S overhead on block. If the st.H hits you would go into KK.
Joker does a confirm with cr.H after st.H which I believe also works. Basically your block string with IM is always cr.L, cr.M st.H (cr.H) Fly.
You would start off with either cr.L or cr.M (depending upon distance), then do st.H Fly. If it's blocked or whiffed you would still be safe and can go for a j.S overhead on block. If the st.H hits you would go into KK.
Joker does a confirm with cr.H after st.H which I believe also works. Basically your block string with IM is always cr.L, cr.M st.H (cr.H) Fly.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
God's Beard says low combo team, I say high damage team.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Thanks Karst!
Aren't his BnBs super simple, though?
So my locked-in teams for the Thousand-Battle No Training Mode challenge starting next weekend are as follows:
Main Team: Strider(Vajra)/X-23(Ankle Slicer)/Magneto(EMD)
Simple Team: Wolverine(Barrage)/Skrull(Stone Smite)/Sentinel(Drones)
Zoning Team: Hawkeye(Triple Shot)/Nova(Centurion Rush M)/Strider(Vajra)
I'm picking these teams because I'm less comfortable with them and I'm hoping to learn a lot without falling back on Wesker/Magneto/Phoenix. The plan is to get at least 500 with the first team and divide the rest up amongst the other two depending on how much fun they are.
Aren't his BnBs super simple, though?
So my locked-in teams for the Thousand-Battle No Training Mode challenge starting next weekend are as follows:
Main Team: Strider(Vajra)/X-23(Ankle Slicer)/Magneto(EMD)
Simple Team: Wolverine(Barrage)/Skrull(Stone Smite)/Sentinel(Drones)
Zoning Team: Hawkeye(Triple Shot)/Nova(Centurion Rush M)/Strider(Vajra)
I'm picking these teams because I'm less comfortable with them and I'm hoping to learn a lot without falling back on Wesker/Magneto/Phoenix. The plan is to get at least 500 with the first team and divide the rest up amongst the other two depending on how much fun they are.
Karsticles
Member
Some are really hard, but that's why no one does them. This is over a year old, so there's newer stuff out there, but IMO these are often difficult:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2iP4m_9IJI
I think Skrull is in the same category Dormammu is, where his very basic combo does high enough damage that people generally don't feel the need to learn his harder stuff. He can also relaunch like 5 times in a row doing s.S, sj.S, air dash, d.H looped, but I could never get it to work for me.
I look forward to being a part of your battles! However for a while my parents will be visiting.
I had this post saved and ready to go mostly until someone at work fucked my computer over. Hate losing progress during a post, it's like losing your 40 hour save file in an RPG.
I think it's just that X-factor and Phoenix are intertwined. As you said DP isn't even that good without X-Factor is true, and buffing her as a point character doesn't really matter anyways. But if they did "fix" DP and make her better, like much better, that can potentially make her teams even stronger since, you would be able to blow X-Factor and then when DP comes out, it wouldn't matter since she's already self-sustainable. I don't know, I guess that's all up for debate!
The combos just don't look fun to do or watch, and something about the animations doesn't hit me right.
It seems like to me you want to tell me "you're just being salty" indirectly!
Yah I also feel that since you have to save up all that meter and you did everything "right" in that match she should be the overpowered character, since there's also very specific anti-character tech against her. I just dislike that her feathers or whatever all ignore hitstun I suppose.
I think it's just that X-factor and Phoenix are intertwined. As you said DP isn't even that good without X-Factor is true, and buffing her as a point character doesn't really matter anyways. But if they did "fix" DP and make her better, like much better, that can potentially make her teams even stronger since, you would be able to blow X-Factor and then when DP comes out, it wouldn't matter since she's already self-sustainable. I don't know, I guess that's all up for debate!
Haha well I literally have to save a portion of my brain power and concentrate during air techable points or air vulnerability. Since I'm so concentrated though, it magnifies my sodium levels =(
It's funny because X-Factor ready Dorm + Meter is almost essentially fighting Dark Phoenix, You can't really do anything! But maybe there's an illusion of what's "fair" and what isn't "fair". It's really frightening how much team order changes everything.
The combos just don't look fun to do or watch, and something about the animations doesn't hit me right.
I read this as "I can't pushblock, Chaotic Flame punish him on point like I can to all those other losers"
Well it's strange, I'll input whatever, jump Magnum, but I guess at the same time I complete the input, the opponent has done the super and the freeze occurs at the same time which doesn't allow the jump to come out. Or something.
Right I think what it comes down to is. You both work your ass off for the end game, Phoenix for 5 bars, the other to kill her before 5 bars. But when it's time for face off, all that work meant nothing, comes down to 1 action. It's both intense and stupid at the same time. If you recall whenever I got a random Dante super on Phoenix I always thought, "that was dumb". It just wasn't as satisfying as I'd like.
PZPoy, and I think that covers it?
I never said Strider is honest! Justice...Ambition...Whatever. He just does his job. Nothing else matters.Chris is honest, but you getting mauled and saved by Vajra and then getting a full combo is not.
Well tbf they take something like 60 frames before exploding and 90 or something for Incendiary grenades. It explodes when Chris is hit, but the fire comes out regardless and it's essentially a flame carpet.
As honest as it gets for Marvel!
Killa Sasa
Member
I think Nert is FloralCat, correct? Tron Skrull Arthur is a team I recall him mentioning...
If so, sorry for my general terribleness, lol. I don't know how to pilot my newer teams yet. Strider especially, hahaha. Facerolling in XF3 is harder than I thought it would be (first time sitting down and trying to do things other than combos with him). I just need him to be good enough to be scummy, don't want to learn him outside of assist and XF, lol.
Gonna make some launch into cartwheel/vajra resets with Cap and Strider once I get a better handle. Found some funky stuff in training mode.
I'm at least getting a better idea of what team to use against what opponent template... Tis fun. That said, nothing like learning new characters to make you appreciate how effortless the old ones are </3. X-23 is still so much fun to slice and dice with.
I wish I knew how to move properly with Team New York. Parker's okay, but I haven't found a groove with Taxmaster or Dick yet.
Random fact of the day that I didn't know: energy javelin OTG's. Why is this a thing? Might see if I can make something out of it too, especially off throws...
If so, sorry for my general terribleness, lol. I don't know how to pilot my newer teams yet. Strider especially, hahaha. Facerolling in XF3 is harder than I thought it would be (first time sitting down and trying to do things other than combos with him). I just need him to be good enough to be scummy, don't want to learn him outside of assist and XF, lol.
Gonna make some launch into cartwheel/vajra resets with Cap and Strider once I get a better handle. Found some funky stuff in training mode.
I'm at least getting a better idea of what team to use against what opponent template... Tis fun. That said, nothing like learning new characters to make you appreciate how effortless the old ones are </3. X-23 is still so much fun to slice and dice with.
I wish I knew how to move properly with Team New York. Parker's okay, but I haven't found a groove with Taxmaster or Dick yet.
Random fact of the day that I didn't know: energy javelin OTG's. Why is this a thing? Might see if I can make something out of it too, especially off throws...
Karsticles
Member
Why wouldn't I care? I always enjoy talking with you about our matches. And I know that feeling. Luckily, I've never lost something as important as a term paper (worst was a Starcraft strategy guide I wrote in 9th grade).
More frankly, I'd like to know why you think rapid fire L's are more bothersome than the many other ridiculous things in this game (1F command grabs into full combos, air dashes, teleports, etc.).
The feathers definitely don't ignore hitstun, they just cause a decent amount of it because otherwise her combos would drop.
Well, I was one of the few people who thought Vanilla Phoenix was very fair. Toward the end of Vanilla people were finally developing anti-Phoenix tech, and only the best of the best were winning with Phoenix. Viscant made it to grand finals, but top 4 had PR Balrog and JWong, neither of which used her. I just looked up top 8 to refresh my memory:
So, there were 3 Phoenix players in top 8. I don't count Noel Brown because IIRC he just pulled Phoenix out against JWong because he was loosing and tried to be cheap, and lost anyway. The biggest problem with Phoenix in Vanilla was how easy it was to get meter, and that got changed. I think the nerfs to her were reactionary, but she's not ruined or anything.
To me, Vanilla Phoenix complaints were like current Ultimate complaints about Vergil's Helm breaker and Doom's Foot Dive. Dumbfucks just need to change their battle plan against some characters, and they can't handle it.
Now, some Vanilla Phoenix stuff was totally OP. Like her TK Shot H in the air, which could let her stay up there all day. I never felt bad about turtling up in the corner spamming TK Shot H while calling Dark Harmonizer in Vanilla, but I recognize that my ability to rock so many characters in this manner was not healthy for the metagame.
I know that feeling. I forget to mash a TAC direction until I get hit. -_-
Everything costs something. It has taken me a lot of work and practice to play Dormammu without any assists. I could go back to using Hidden Missiles like I did in Vanilla...
Do you think that a character should have normals that are impossible to punish?
Every time I kill Dante I wonder how my opponent let that happen, because the matchup is just so bad for Dormammu. Pushblock, Chaotic Flame punish is all Dormammu has in some matchups, since Dante is immune to keepaway (even Dark Matter -> Mass Change) and outranges all of his normals.Hmm. Maybe you need to be less pre-emptive with your inputs? I know it's a bad habit I have, and I am overly predictive with Purification at times.
I never feel like it all went for nothing just because there's a different kind of game being played. I don't recall any of your thoughts (haha), but I thought it was dumb, too. The more I play her the less I'll get caught by that crap, though.
The "comes down to 1 action" argument seems to apply to other top tier anchors like Vergil, though. "All that work, and Vergil is just Vergil", etc. Vergil is like Phoenix though: he should be snapped in and dealt with so that crap doesn't happen. So many characters have 100% chip setups that force her to burn X-Factor just to survive, too.
This is super old, but it's a good example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9J7DNhxNcY
3 bars + X-Factor to chip out Phoenix, and she got a health nerf in Ultimate. Why don't people use this stuff? Trading XF1 with a Phoenix team is a very good trade.
He's so inconsistent I forget about him, but yeah.
He invalidates honest play for Chris when he gives you 600K combos off of me hitting you (lol).
I'm totally cool with the grenades and how they function. I think they're a good and fair tool. I'm not cool with how the animation sticks around after the grenade is done hitting, and as the opposing player I don't know when it's safe to do anything visually. Very annoying.
Haha. There is no honesty in Marvel, there are just better and worse teams! ;-)
SolarKnight
Member
Anyone up for some matches?
Are you still up for them in like 15 minutes?
Anyways, today I realized that I fucking hate Spencer more than any other character in the game. I'm sure my team's overall health doesn't help (seriously, only way it could be lower is if I put Phoenix in there).
Yeah sure.