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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
SynthetiCTS
Neo Member
Through all of this Phoenix talk, how does gaf think that a Non-Phoenix Jean Grey would work in Ultimate? Being real basic, lets say you just take away the 5 bar transformation, give her 730k health, the properties of Vanilla Phoenix (salty balls, etc.), and just visually rework some of her special moves to better resemble the character, aka psy plasma, no fire. Would she be a viable character in the umvc3 landscape today?? Food for thought
Karsticles
Member
She would be one of the best characters in the game.
Her regular incarnation is filled completely with B.S. that stops you from being able to run away from her by design. She'd still be completely obnoxious with 750K HP and no Dark Phoenix.
Top 5 character in the game. Insane movement, great damage, great buttons, invincible hyper, sick projectiles.
She would be top 5 character in the game at 700K plus health and salty balls. Probably top 3.
Point Phoenix with Vergil on 2nd and Hidden Missiles... CHEAP as fuck.
Karsticles
Member
Best in the game? Her damage is still low. I put her somewhere around Strider tier (better mobility, worse assists).
SynthetiCTS
Neo Member
I know this is all pointless theory talk but, what if you were to remove her teleport?
Karsticles
Member
Alright, I'm cool with that.
The assist is a less flexible than Tatsu, but I agree it's not bad. It has:
1) Fast startup frames (same as Tatsu IIRC).
2) Projectile negation.
3) Quick screen travel and resolution.
3) is the problem with the assist, because a lot of characters can't make use of the assist during its short duration aside from getting some pushback. There's less pinning, and the pushback makes it harder to convert anything off of it. It's still useful for teleporters, though. I know I like using it with Dormammu (though I wouldn't list it as a top 10 assist for him or anything).
Then she's be around Storm levels of good.
biosnake20
Member
I think if Phoenix had 700k health and her only nerf would be taking away her dark version she would be the best easily top 3. Those level one hypers she has are too good for a regular character.
Karsticles
Member
Phoenix Rage is a shitty Bionic Arm, and Healing Field...eh. I like that hyper not so much for the healing (which is useless against most characters) but for the vision obscurement. No one can see what Phoenix is doing in that bubble, so overheads rarely get blocked unless they're predicted.
How can you call Phoenix Rage a shittier Bionic when you can use it in the air, causes a wall bounce and does respectable damage? A lot of characters would kill to have a hyper like that. I wouldn't say it's TOO good but it's still a very good hyper to have in the bag.
Phoenix without teleport would be a better Storm but would be outclassed by Magneto and even Nova.
Phoenix without teleport would be a better Storm but would be outclassed by Magneto and even Nova.
Karsticles
Member
Because Bionic Lancer leads to full combos, and Phoenix Rage does not. Using it in the air is only going to matter...when? To save yourself from Gimlet, I suppose. Other than that I don't see a lot of legitimate aerial uses unless.
Sure, it causes a ground bounce, but it also pushes people away. It's easier to DHC from Bionic Lancer than it is to DHC from Phoenix Rage.
No doubt the damage is quite good, but Bionic Lancer hits once, so if you DHC to an install hyper you have a high damage combo coming. Not so with Phoenix Rage. A trade-off, there.
I don't argue that Phoenix Rage is not good. It's an amazing super. I just don't think it's "too good" for a level 1 hyper, and it's not far off from a several other top tier level 1 hypers. Good? Yes. Too good? No.
Agreed on your Phoenix estimation. Better than Storm (by a bit, not by a huge amount), worse than Magneto and Nova.
She would be the Marvel side's Strider minus a top 3 assist but with full flight and 8 way air dashes. God, the kinds of shit you could do with a character like that. I wouldn't be surprised if she could still be a Dark tier anchor just like that as well.
biosnake20
Member
Healing field will be even better because she has more health.
SynthetiCTS
Neo Member
I would think that removing her teleport would change her archtype as an offensive mixup character to a viable keep away character. That was why I suggested giving her back the three air actions from vanilla. I would almost think that even storm would outclass her in the mixup department. Keeping her in the same "mold" for lack of a better word as Magnus and Nova, she would definitely be over shadowed by them. I have no clue what the durability of an H shot is, but to me she would play like a more mobile psuedo-Morrigan in terms of lameness.
Karsticles
Member
Better than never used outside of Dark Phoenix form to counter health drain? I would hope so.
Phoenix would still be rushdown oriented. If you got rid of her teleport, her projectiles would not be worth much, because they have low durability and a 750K health character can't afford to sit around on the ground throwing crappy projectiles.
Her mix-ups would be better than Storm's simply because of j.H, which is amazing, even better than Dormammu's j.S or j.H.
She can't be a pseudo-Morrigan any more than Ryu or Akuma can.
You can use it to DHC out from the air. It's always good to have an air hyper especially an invincible one.
And yea like I said it's a very good hyper but too good is pushing it.
Karsticles
Member
I can't imagine DHCing out of the air unless you're trying to save her from chip damage, though. Assuming she has teleports still, Teleport M x Phoenix Rage is the way to DHC out!
It's not really effective keep away. Salty balls were great at annoying people, setting up rushdown with teleports and buying enough time/meter for Dark Phoenix. With characters like Hawkeye and Strider it's not a viable option to bank your entire strategy around. The teleport is instrumental in her fireball game.
kevo_huevo
Member
Ughh running into a bunch of assholes online lately. Taunt and teabag then leave after 1 match
WesternHeretic
Member
I can't believe we are talking about a character that doesn't even exist.
Karsticles
Member
When's the next huge Marvel event so we have something relevant to talk about?
"God's Beard!"
Member
When's the next huge Marvel event so we have something relevant to talk about?
SCR next month, right?
biosnake20
Member
When the hell is there gonna be 5v5 between EC and WC?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
It's pretty clear who would win.
I can't really even name 5 from WC.
I can't really even name 5 from WC.
F.Champ
Wong
Infrit
Killer Kai
Padtrick
Drew Grimey
Fanatiq
Knives
Clockw0rk
Kbeast
A team with 5 of those can beat the EC on a good day.
After fchamp and wong it gets spotty.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
No way. Even on a good day, I don't see any of those people beating Chris G or Yipes
or me
Professor Beef
Banned
Only if they have F.Champ. If he ain't there, there's no chance that team would win.
Champ has a good record against Yipes and Chris G. Justin Wong as well. After F Champ, Yipes, Chris G and Yipes there's a drop in quality on both coasts.
After this and the SF Marvel discussion, it's pretty obvious we have run out of things to talk about. Things are going to stay like this until after the winter holidays when EVO season starts.
An EC vs WC would be very competitive this time around. Unless they do it like the Canada vs USA thing and EC puts ChrisG up front.
My picks for EC vs WC 8 player exhibition:
Filipino "EVO" Champ
Justin "Marvelous" Wong
EG PR "Just Do it" Rog
Fan "Ma Jebailey" atiq
Combo "Comeback" fiend
Clock "Washed up Veteran" w0rk
K "Wild Card" Beast or Drew "Ryback" Grimey
LXG "2nd place god" Infrit
Team Mascot: CJ "This time is our time" Showstoppa
vs
Christopher "Genius/Godlike/Grip/Grab Anything/G-Sus" G
BT IFC "Curley Mustache" Yipes
Ray "Gohan" Ray
TA "The Technical One" Moonz
Marlin "Based Swag" Pie
GU "Pick a Top Tier" Flocker
Noel "Best in the World" Brown
Loaded Flux or BT "The Lame One" Dieminion
Team Mascot: OMGitz "DroppedCombos" Andre
"God's Beard!"
Member
I want to see a "Girl Worth Fighting For" exhibition. The best Phoenix, Morrigan, X-23 and C.Viper players duking it out.
I'd really just like to see Phoenix vs X-23, but there aren't enough X-23 players yet :-(
I'd really just like to see Phoenix vs X-23, but there aren't enough X-23 players yet :-(
I had someone do that after winning 1 after losing 6 straight. Like... good work buddy. I'm sure that made you feel so much better.
No Tron, Trish, She Hulk, Felicia, Storm, Hsien Ko and Amaterasu?
The super will hit, what version of Smart Bombs are you using?
True as that already may be, how are you going to nickname RayRay anything but Amuro RayRay? Dat Sentinel of his is a Gundam in disguise.
Also on the East Coast side of your list Dah, I love Dieminion, but I feel like if it were all those and Flux, that would be a way more potent (re: cheap) team.
Also on the East Coast side of your list Dah, I love Dieminion, but I feel like if it were all those and Flux, that would be a way more potent (re: cheap) team.
H version. They are too far away for the 3 frame pop up, so it takes 10 frames for the super to hit.
"God's Beard!"
Member
NEW ULTIMATE STREET FIGHTER RULE SET(version 2013):
Disable the launcher button
disable the assist buttons
Set damage to very low
Card set(Hyper Fighting style): Fin Fang Foom(no hypers, no x-factor), Multiple Man(3/5 rounds), Black Panther(walk speed bonus)
This solves the previous problems with USF, like hitstun parries and random meters. No parries sucks but they're glitched so too bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm3ijOVsraA
Disable the launcher button
disable the assist buttons
Set damage to very low
Card set(Hyper Fighting style): Fin Fang Foom(no hypers, no x-factor), Multiple Man(3/5 rounds), Black Panther(walk speed bonus)
This solves the previous problems with USF, like hitstun parries and random meters. No parries sucks but they're glitched so too bad.
Nobody really makes teams where those characters are the center of attention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm3ijOVsraA
Karsticles
Member
I still can't support the randomness of the Multiple Man card being involved. Just get rid of the cards and make it CvS3 so we can play it online.
"God's Beard!"
Member
There is no randomness with Fin Fang Foom, though! It disables hypers, and secondary Multiple man only increases hyper stocks! And Primary FFF only makes x-factor unlimited uses, so it basically does nothing except fix multiple man.
Also, SRK likes my idea!
Steelguttey said:
Karsticles
Member
Hmmm. That works, but it still sucks that you have such a cool idea that none of us can actually play. -_-
"God's Beard!"
Member
Can you turn down damage in player matches? CVS3 style is fine, too. Nothing stopping anyone lol
Karsticles
Member
Well if you're doing it without cards, then you have hypers available, and DHCs, etc. It's a very different game from what you're proposing. I don't think damage can be toned down in player matches.
Professor Beef
Banned
Handicap settings.
Um you are doing it wrong, you don't need to hit them with the 3 frame physical hit to combo. You need to cancel into PC after the second set of bombs launches so that maximum hit stun from the bombs is applied. You should do some basic combos ending in hyper at mid screen to figure out the timing, its not hard but its annoying. Also this usually misses in the corner which is very problematic as PC is very unsafe on block.
thanks, ill try this. i was always cancelling it as quick as possible as i was practicing it in the corner before.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Holy crap, I didn't know Magneto could combo after Magnetic Tempest.
edit: wow I love the glitch thread on SRK. Apparently the guard break glitch(throw on the same frame as they block/get hit) saves hit states. So if you call a wall bounce assist and throw someone the same frame the assist hits, they wall bounce after the throw animation.
edit: wow I love the glitch thread on SRK. Apparently the guard break glitch(throw on the same frame as they block/get hit) saves hit states. So if you call a wall bounce assist and throw someone the same frame the assist hits, they wall bounce after the throw animation.
Yeah that has practical applications for characters who can't normally combo after throws solo. One example I saw was guard breaking a Wolverine throw with Iron Fist's Rising Fang.
Of course I use the term practical very loosely here because this glitch/tech is difficult to replicate in live matches.