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[Frantic]

I'm super consistent with Dante's upshot loops in training mode, but can't do them in real matches very often... though I think in my case it's due to even the tiny bit of lag resulting in a drop more than anything.

Speaking of consistency, I can empty cancel s.H into Weasel Shot seven out of ten times on average now. There's only a 2 frame window to cancel into it, so it's actually pretty good and I've started incorporating it into my zoning + mixups. It's really powerful against some matchups. Now I just need to get that sort of consistency with empty Reverb Shock > Fireworks...

 

[smurfx]

people should be doing really complicated stuff in training mode and just random shit because you can often do it on the fly in real matches. i know that is often the case with me.

 

[Professor Beef]

still hate getting touched by her since she has all day to combo.

you use haggar

 

[smurfx]

you use haggar

he's a heavy and she is not. lol you can't ever make an observation on here without somebody saying "well you use (insert character)".

 

[Karsticles]

still hate getting touched by her since she has all day to combo.

What do you mean?

 

[smurfx]

What do you mean?

the floaty hit stun she puts you in when she hits you with that drill move.

 

[Karsticles]

the floaty hit stun she puts you in when she hits you with that drill move.

Most S attacks cause that much hitstun when they hit in the air, though. "All day to confirm", to me, means having an attack that causes a ground bounce or hard knockdown as the basic hit confirm.

 

[Professor Beef]

he's a heavy and she is not. lol you can't ever make an observation on here without somebody saying "well you use (insert character)".

I make it a note to call people out on complaints against characters and _____ when they use characters who do _____ better and/or more effectively. Complaining that Morrigan has "all day to combo" is nothing compared to how long Haggar has after a pipe, for example.

You also tend to do it often, which makes you an easy target. :3

 

[smurfx]

I make it a note to call people out on complaints against characters and _____ when they use characters who do _____ better and/or more effectively. Complaining that Morrigan has "all day to combo" is nothing compared to how long Haggar has after a pipe, for example.

You also tend to do it often, which makes you an easy target. :3

what is easier to land? her drill move or pipe? who has better mobility and the speed advantage? holding pipe against haggar is crap since he does not have as many tools to deal with some characters. now if you said taskmaster causes way too much hitstun then i wouldn't really disagree there.

 

[Karsticles]

what is easier to land? her drill move or pipe? who has better mobility and the speed advantage? holding pipe against haggar is crap since he does not have as many tools to deal with some characters. now if you said taskmaster causes way too much hitstun then i wouldn't really disagree there.

Why are you changing the discussion from hit confirmation time to ease of opening up characters?

 

[smurfx]

Why are you changing the discussion from hit confirmation time to ease of opening up characters?

okay back to the conversation. i would be up for giving haggar way less time to confirm off of pipe if capcom did the same with every character in the game. :3 not necessarily make link combos but definitely make people confirm right away and none of this hit characters 3 or 4 times with chain L's and then continue combos.

 

[Dahbomb]

Scrubs would run away from the game if every character played like Iron Man.

Pipe is brain dead and so is Shell Kick but Pipe is more so. It's an OS, causes a ground bounce and has a better arc. Causes a ton of block stun as well. Shell Kick has the advantage of being multi-hitting though which is useful against armored characters. Pipe is a much better move but Shell Kick is just attached to a better character... which is a different argument entirely.

 

[Karsticles]

okay back to the conversation. i would be up for giving haggar way less time to confirm off of pipe if capcom did the same with every character in the game. :3 not necessarily make link combos but definitely make people confirm right away and none of this hit characters 3 or 4 times with chain L's and then continue combos.

I'm cool with Haggar's hit confirmation time, personally. I think Beef was just pointing out the irony of your comment. It would be like me, a Dormammu/Morrigan player, complaining about Chris's chip damage.

Scrubs would run away from the game if every character played like Iron Man.

I would too, since the game would no longer be fun.

 

[Professor Beef]

I'm cool with Haggar's hit confirmation time, personally. I think Beef was just pointing out the irony of your comment. It would be like me, a Dormammu/Morrigan player, complaining about Chris's chip damage.


I would too, since the game would no longer be fun.

Bingo on both accounts.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah what you guys said.

I would stop playing the game too if I didn't have my derp that I can fall back on. I can't do links for shit in SF4 even though I can play footsies fine. While there are certain link combos in Marvel it's not as prevalent as you can get by with superior knowledge/smart play but inferior execution.

 

[Karsticles]

Yeah what you guys said.

I would stop playing the game too if I didn't have my derp that I can fall back on. I can't do links for shit in SF4 even though I can play footsies fine. While there are certain link combos in Marvel it's not as prevalent as you can get by with superior knowledge/smart play but inferior execution.

I just mean that what I love about Marvel is being able to constantly move fast and dash around the screen. Iron Man is slow and boring.

 

[Dahbomb]

That's what Iron Man is SUPPOSED to play like. He has fucking real thrusters on him and he is slower than fucking Viper with her bootleg thrusters.

 

[Karsticles]

That's what Iron Man is SUPPOSED to play like. He has fucking real thrusters on him and he is slower than fucking Viper with her bootleg thrusters.

I entirely agree with you. I liked his Vanilla incarnation a lot more.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Sure

 

[Dahbomb]

Well the only thing good about Vanilla IM was the down/forward air dash and the double jump. Without those 2 he was a vastly inferior character as hard as it is to believe.

 

[Karsticles]

Well the only thing good about Vanilla IM was the down/forward air dash and the double jump. Without those 2 he was a vastly inferior character as hard as it is to believe.

Lay it out for me, because to me his air dash is the #1 problem he has right now, and the buffs he gained in Ultimate are pretty meager in comparison.

 

[smurfx]

That's what Iron Man is SUPPOSED to play like. He has fucking real thrusters on him and he is slower than fucking Viper with her bootleg thrusters.

she has thrusters? never knew that.

 

[Professor Beef]

she has thrusters? never knew that.

Yeah, you can see them in the vanilla SF4 opening. It's how she does her burn kicks.

 

[Dahbomb]

Lay it out for me, because to me his air dash is the #1 problem he has right now, and the buffs he gained in Ultimate are pretty meager in comparison.

He didn't have a universal confirm in Vanilla because j.M didn't link after st.H Fly. The KK combo only worked at very close range. This is because of his flight cancel being,made faster.

His st.H, j.S and a few of his other normals got slightly better hitboxes. This is especially noticeable on j.S as it can now cross up.

Repulsar Blast is easier to perform and causes hard knockdown. Very useful property to have and allows for better.combos. Because of this and IMs scaling values being adjusted his combos hurt a lot now.

He can now cancel his normals with air dash. This increases his aerial hit confirm potency and gives him more flexibility in air.combos.

Cr.H has more hit stun now (great for confirms and combos) and is now special cancelable so its an actual tool you can use in the neutrals.

Smart Bombs have been improved greatly, allowing for relaunches and have less recovery but hit stun lessens with combo length. They are also faster than before (less overall frames to the moves).

Iron Avenger and PC both do more damage now.

IMs air dashes have a new property that maintains their momentum even if they touch the ground resulting in a glide like animation. Air dashes continue for very long distances you can go from top corner of the screen to the bottom opposite corner in one dash and he picks up speed near landing which can lead into an ambiguous situation. His up/down air dash is improved too and is the default mix up dash that he has.

 

[Azure J]

I'm super consistent with Dante's upshot loops in training mode, but can't do them in real matches very often... though I think in my case it's due to even the tiny bit of lag resulting in a drop more than anything.

Tell me about it, shot loops are like the defacto "I'm bored and haven't gotten an idea on something to brush up on" thing I do in training mode. Now, I rattle off 5+ reps like it's nothing from different routes, but every time I'm in a match situation, I hardly ever go with them. It isn't even like a fear of dropping it or something like that, they just don't cross my mind often enough. :lol

Speaking of consistency, I can empty cancel s.H into Weasel Shot seven out of ten times on average now. There's only a 2 frame window to cancel into it, so it's actually pretty good and I've started incorporating it into my zoning + mixups. It's really powerful against some matchups. Now I just need to get that sort of consistency with empty Reverb Shock > Fireworks...

Was it you I started using the Weasel Shot zoning on a while back in match or someone else? Either way, that maneuver is tooooooo good. I also recently realized that Weasel Shot can be used for rushdown pretty well if you plink H to M during the animation. You get all the shots and "buffer" a fast as fuck full screen dash when you get the rhythm down.

A trick someone else shared with me for empty cancel Fireworks - do a QCB+L then QCB+H (or HCB+H) for timing. This is so good, it also helped me get Crazy Dance timing down perfectly.

she has thrusters? never knew that.

The really nutty thing about her is that in canon, that suit should allow her to fly. Imagine that brokenness in Marvel. :lol

 

[Professor Beef]

The really nutty thing about her is that in canon, that suit should allow her to fly. Imagine that brokenness in Marvel. :lol

Her thrusters aren't THAT powerful.

 

[smurfx]

The really nutty thing about her is that in canon, that suit should allow her to fly. Imagine that brokenness in Marvel. :lol

next marvel game she will get deadpools teleport machine and then the real fun will start.

 

[Azure J]

Her thrusters aren't THAT powerful.

Hey, I'm only going based off what I've heard.

next marvel game she will get deadpools teleport machine and then the real fun will start.

Teleport xx EX Seismo... Hot damn. :lol

 

[Karsticles]

Her thrusters aren't THAT powerful.

Yeah they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5_zHk9H1RY&t=03m58s

He didn't have a universal confirm in Vanilla because j.M didn't link after st.H Fly. The KK combo only worked at very close range. This is because of his flight cancel being,made faster.

His st.H, j.S and a few of his other normals got slightly better hitboxes. This is especially noticeable on j.S as it can now cross up.

Repulsar Blast is easier to perform and causes hard knockdown. Very useful property to have and allows for better.combos. Because of this and IMs scaling values being adjusted his combos hurt a lot now.

He can now cancel his normals with air dash. This increases his aerial hit confirm potency and gives him more flexibility in air.combos.

Cr.H has more hit stun now (great for confirms and combos) and is now special cancelable so its an actual tool you can use in the neutrals.

Smart Bombs have been improved greatly, allowing for relaunches and have less recovery but hit stun lessens with combo length. They are also faster than before (less overall frames to the moves).

Iron Avenger and PC both do more damage now.

IMs air dashes have a new property that maintains their momentum even if they touch the ground resulting in a glide like animation. Air dashes continue for very long distances you can go from top corner of the screen to the bottom opposite corner in one dash and he picks up speed near landing which can lead into an ambiguous situation. His up/down air dash is improved too and is the default mix up dash that he has.

Understood.

 

[smurfx]

haha there's this one haggar player who changed his name to lariat tubman.

 

[Frantic]

Tell me about it, shot loops are like the defacto "I'm bored and haven't gotten an idea on something to brush up on" thing I do in training mode. Now, I rattle off 5+ reps like it's nothing from different routes, but every time I'm in a match situation, I hardly ever go with them. It isn't even like a fear of dropping it or something like that, they just don't cross my mind often enough. :lol

I often go for it if I'm feeling myself(which has been occurring more and more these days), but lag always manages to screw me over.

I'm also trying to get 10 shots after Beehive down for the added meter gain. They have to be juggled at a very specific spot for me to consistently connect the Stinger.

Was it you I started using the Weasel Shot zoning on a while back in match or someone else? Either way, that maneuver is tooooooo good. I also recently realized that Weasel Shot can be used for rushdown pretty well if you plink H to M during the animation. You get all the shots and "buffer" a fast as fuck full screen dash when you get the rhythm down.

I don't think it was me, pretty sure I would remember getting zoned by Weasel Shot, lol. I like empty cancel Weasel Shots for oki situations where no matter how they tech, they eat some lockdown/chip into mixups. It's also really useful for zoning against characters like Hulk or Haggar where I badger them safely from mostly full screen without worrying about getting bopped.

I'm also experimenting with Scat Shot for full screen lockdown/mixups/punishes/whatever, but it's too easy to just duck under. Right now I'm seeing if I can't frame trap standing characters in the corner with it. Since it can be canceled into Stinger/Prop Shredder, I'm sure there's some shit to be had there. Also seeing about using Cold Shower for chip blockstrings. Stinger level 2 causes chip, so Cold Shower > Stinger Level 2 > Reverb Shock does a lot of chip.

Also need to see if I can make Prop Shredder safe with Vajra. I want to use its huge ass hitbox as an anti-air against airdashers/dive kicks. If only I could just throw it out on command instead of having to go to Cold Shower first...

Oh, and I'm terrible at plinking. Absolutely terrible.

A trick someone else shared with me for empty cancel Fireworks - do a QCB+L then QCB+H (or HCB+H) for timing. This is so good, it also helped me get Crazy Dance timing down perfectly.

That works pretty well, thanks. I just need to figure out when to start doing the HCB motion so I can get it consistent.

 

[Nert]

haha there's this one haggar player who changed his name to lariat tubman.

Hah, I remember seeing that person a couple of days ago. Definitely the funniest Live name I've seen in a while.

 

[Azure J]

Prop Shredder as an anti-air sounds hilariously fucked up. Maybe I should look into methods for that to work too.

 

[hypernima]

Practice sessions anyone?

 

[Azure J]

You on XBL?

Also, Firebrand. Good lord, Firebrand. There's a character that tests one's reaction time.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

sooo....

Nova/Spencer/Strider?
Spencer/Doom/Strider?

 

[hypernima]

You on XBL?

Also, Firebrand. Good lord, Firebrand. There's a character that tests one's reaction time.

PSN

 

[Karsticles]

PSN

Want to play?

You on XBL?

Also, Firebrand. Good lord, Firebrand. There's a character that tests one's reaction time.

Haha, are you trying to AA him?

 

[Zissou]

Fighting Firebrand is scary. Bon Voyage laughs at all my buttons, it seems

 

[LakeEarth]

sooo....

Nova/Spencer/Strider?
Spencer/Doom/Strider?

I play Nova/Spencer/Doom, so I would say the second team is better. Spencer with a beam assist is a huge pain in the ass, and they DHC well together (both for damage and to safety). Can TAC into Doom swag combos, if you're into that. Plus Doom/Strider is a BFF combination.

 

[Zissou]

I play Nova/Spencer/Doom, so I would say the second team is better. Spencer with a beam assist is a huge pain in the ass, and they DHC well together (both for damage and to safety). Can TAC into Doom swag combos, if you're into that. Plus Doom/Strider is a BFF combination.

I agree with this. The second team is much more well rounded. He might want to consider Nova/Doom/Strider too, though he seems set on having bionic AAAAARRRRM on the team.

 

[Karsticles]

Fighting Firebrand is scary. Bon Voyage laughs at all my buttons, it seems

Dante is one of the few characters who he can't Bon Voyage without fear.

Anyone want to play for a bit?

 

[LakeEarth]

I agree with this. The second team is much more well rounded. He might want to consider Nova/Doom/Strider too, though he seems set on having bionic AAAAARRRRM on the team.

And who could blame him?

I really should get on the Strider train. It'd be nice to have a team with a "dark" anchor for once.

 

[Zissou]

Dante is one of the few characters who he can't Bon Voyage without fear.

Anyone want to play for a bit?

What does Dante have that deters random aerial bon voyages?

And who could blame him?

I really should get on the Strider train. It'd be nice to have a team with a "dark" anchor for once.

Strider anchor is great. He'll save your point character's life a lot because people snap him in instead of going for the kill, vanilla phoenix style.

 

[Karsticles]

What does Dante have that deters random aerial bon voyages

j.S into The Hammer spam - Firebrand can't do anything about it. You need to utilize Dante's zoning techniques, he has a huge list of moves that rock Bon Voyage. That's the easiest and most common I've experienced, though.

 

[Zissou]

j.S into The Hammer spam - Firebrand can't do anything about it. You need to utilize Dante's zoning techniques, he has a huge list of moves that rock Bon Voyage. That's the easiest and most common I've experienced, though.

Maybe I should consider starting Dante against him instead of Doom. If I spam helm breaker xx hammer all day, I imagine Firebrand will just start chucking fireballs, but that's what vajra is for, I suppose

 

[Karsticles]

Maybe I should consider starting Dante against him instead of Doom. If I spam helm breaker xx hammer all day, I imagine Firebrand will just start chucking fireballs, but that's what vajra is for, I suppose

If he starts to chuck fireballs, then use your missiles, or just absorb them with Tempest while calling an assist to get screen control. Dante has easy answers for everything Firebrand does. He's one of the handful of characters that made me stop playing Firebrand.

 

[Zissou]

If he starts to chuck fireballs, then use your missiles, or just absorb them with Tempest while calling an assist to get screen control. Dante has easy answers for everything Firebrand does. He's one of the handful of characters that made me stop playing Firebrand.

Ahh, that makes sense for you considering Dante does so well against Dorm as well. Missiles have such bad durability that I figured firebrand's fireballs would cut straight through them, but I'll give it a second look. Twister or Million Carats+ assist call is always great though, especially against zero (seriously, fuck zero).

 

[mr. puppy]

omg flying around with magneto while spamming morrigan is assist is hilariously fun against hulk/haggar/sent players.

 

[Karsticles]

ChrisG and Dieminion interviews:
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/...eaturing-dieminion-knuckledu-li-joe-and-more/

omg flying around with magneto while spamming morrigan is assist is hilariously fun against hulk/haggar/sent players.

Add a teleport to the mix and you have my Dormammu setup. ;-)

I played 20 matches today with my team and got Dark Phoenix every time except for when she died once on snap-in and died once on an assist call (damn it). Then it was time to DHC Dormammu in and summon the power...