-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
They're going to nerf Zero, Vergil and Magneto because they're obviously 'too good'.
Then they're going to buff Dante because no one plays him anymore and that means they went overboard with his nerfs and he's now ass. That's how balance works, right?
Somehow ends up better than vanilla Dante, and Magneto has some new glitch that keeps him in the top. Viper gets a few minor tweaks that make her even better.
Cacpcom.
I would love to have the majority of my broken character intact. I would have only nerfed the silliest things and left much of his stupidity intact.
There were a lot of stealth changes I didn't like either, such as Fireworks no longer penetrating characters and Jet Stream no longer carrying people properly, but I don't know if some of these were intentional or as a result of system changes (which I suspect is the reason why Jet Stream acts the way it does now).
But going backwards from Ultimate Dante, I would have returned the hitstun on his normals to what they originally were, removed the added pushback, returned soft knockdown on Cold Shower, returned Hammer's old hitbox and active frames, and undone little nerfs like making Fireworks penetrate again, and make his minimum scaling at least 5%, if not 10%.
He would probably end up being just as oppressive as before, but I don't care. Being able to use his standing light once again would instantly make him ridiculous. Old Hammer, even with Ultimate's invincibility, would still be incredibly ridiculous.
The Acid Rain/Clay Pigeon nerfs are very fair.
But I'm not sure if I would have taken away the pushback on H. It actually turned out to be pretty useful for hit confirming in certain situations, it was really nerfing the hitstun as well that ruined many of Dante's combo routes. It also made my character significantly less scrub friendly, which I always appreciate.
There were a lot of stealth changes I didn't like either, such as Fireworks no longer penetrating characters and Jet Stream no longer carrying people properly, but I don't know if some of these were intentional or as a result of system changes (which I suspect is the reason why Jet Stream acts the way it does now).
But going backwards from Ultimate Dante, I would have returned the hitstun on his normals to what they originally were, removed the added pushback, returned soft knockdown on Cold Shower, returned Hammer's old hitbox and active frames, and undone little nerfs like making Fireworks penetrate again, and make his minimum scaling at least 5%, if not 10%.
He would probably end up being just as oppressive as before, but I don't care. Being able to use his standing light once again would instantly make him ridiculous. Old Hammer, even with Ultimate's invincibility, would still be incredibly ridiculous.
The Acid Rain/Clay Pigeon nerfs are very fair.
But I'm not sure if I would have taken away the pushback on H. It actually turned out to be pretty useful for hit confirming in certain situations, it was really nerfing the hitstun as well that ruined many of Dante's combo routes. It also made my character significantly less scrub friendly, which I always appreciate.
What's more, they're going to nerf them in ways that either don't make sense (like lightning still crossing up in corners, but no soft knockdown effect on it anymore), or make them so technical only the loyalists will continue to pursue playing them. Viper gets a float mode, Laser is air OK and fires at a downward angle and the ability to cancel anything into Laser.
Magneto gets NICO'd (nerfed in concept only) and then becomes top three because "oh hey guys, he can repel projectiles/attract point + assists now in this stealth buff/overlooking from Capcpom."
Hsien-Ko gets unsold copies of the Megaman Legends 3 box, a statue of Ruby Heart and Leon's keys as new items in Anki Hou.
Balanced. As. Fuck.
Edit: What was Clay Pigeon like in Vanilla that it's considered nerfed now? First I'm hearing of this and I'm curious.
Also, I'd trade s.L's properties for faster startup.
Magneto gets NICO'd (nerfed in concept only) and then becomes top three because "oh hey guys, he can repel projectiles/attract point + assists now in this stealth buff/overlooking from Capcpom."
Hsien-Ko gets unsold copies of the Megaman Legends 3 box, a statue of Ruby Heart and Leon's keys as new items in Anki Hou.
Balanced. As. Fuck.
Edit: What was Clay Pigeon like in Vanilla that it's considered nerfed now? First I'm hearing of this and I'm curious.
Also, I'd trade s.L's properties for faster startup.
The opponent floated longer. It was why you could do S~HH 6 times in a row (7 times on big characters). You could also do S~H~Stinger without the need to back up from the opponent beforehand. It was really a nerf to tone down the shot loops specifically, but people pretty much figured their way around it anyway.
I would really love it if capcom just buffed the crappier characters and left most of the high tier characters alone.
I want to believe in a balance patch!
In reality this is all hsienko would get...
I want to believe in a balance patch!
In reality this is all hsienko would get...
I'd be fine with those being restored, though only if Cold Shower is returned to its vanilla float values. Don't need infinties + I hate getting crossed up because Dante travels under them. >_>
Had lighter float, I think. Think it made it easier to do shot loops, but I never was able to do them until Ultimate. Then again, I hear 10-shot loops are easier than 2-shot loops, but I have a harder time doing 10-shot loops. >_>
I don't think vanilla Clay Pigeon caused soft-knockdown, though I don't really know if Ultimate causes soft-knockdown or they just touch the ground before the hitstun runs out.
Eh, I think I'd prefer vanilla s.L to a faster Ultimate s.L. It anti-aired above and behind him, and he could still combo, and it had slightly more horizontal range than Vergil's s.L, I think.AzureJericho said:
They should speed up his cr.L, if anything. It's his smallest/shortest normal, so it being his fastest would be fair, I say.
A fully hitting Cold Shower would appear to be +10, it wouldn't be able to link into itself infinitely. As for crossing under when you do all 4 shots, with soft knockdown you could just delay the Stinger so they fall slightly, and you won't cross under them. Yay.
Pretty sure it's +11 or +12, since you can land a cr.M after it. I guess you'd still have to have perfect mashing to get it to work, though.
I don't have frame data with me right now, but I recall the startup for Cold Shower by itself being 12 frames, which means the fastest it can physically be inputted would be in 14 frames.
Didn't think you could do c.M though, I tried that yesterday and didn't do it fast enough I guess.
Pretty sure Cold Shower is 11 frames of startup, so I guess 13 frames? Still, Vanilla had the Cold Shower juggle on the weird hitbox characters, and it didn't float them as high as they float now. I'm sure there's a way to get an infinite going in there somewhere.
Give Nova a speed buff? noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonobody talks about Nova
Give Nova a speed buff or a reliable way to make his normals safe.
Karsticles
Member
GGs Slasher. Sorry about those last three "matches", my wife called on her lunch break.
What are your thoughts on the teams I was using?
And I need a new opponent!
PSN is Karsticles.
What are your thoughts on the teams I was using?
And I need a new opponent!
I'm testing new teams, so "really bad" sounds really good right now.
PSN is Karsticles.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
GGS indeed Karsticles. I thought your teams were pretty good, but I don't think you gave frank enough of a chance. I really like your on point Morrigan, very solid and not just because I don't have a very good counter to her. I would suggest a MorriDoom, cause your really good with the bullet hell, but I know you hate Doom. Morrigan, Dorm and Vergil wouldn't be too bad, but it doesn't feel very meter building type of team and it seems to me you love da meter. I would suggest try it if you haven't already. (You probably have)
So last night I had a very awkward set. I was playing this guy, who I have played a little before. He is really good and very efficient at preforming his combo's, but holy hell he was the biggest sore loser I have ever played against and that includes online. He was getting pissed to losing to a Wright team. This normally pleases me but this guy wouldn't shut up about every little thing. It became almost comical, then I even started feeling bad for him. It wasn't even like I was dominating, we were pretty even the whole time. Every time Hulk got a combo off it was like a fist fire of curses. "I'm in hitstun" "Your such a masher" "uh I teleported" "Hulk C nice didn't see that one coming" "I HAVE FRAME ADVANTAGE" it was never ending. Then this joker proceeds to tell me his team of Wesker, Doom and Strider has nothing that can stop Hulk. LOL what!? Then tells me that Hulk is such a bad match up for Wesker. I literally died laughing right then and there. Guy was dead serious. One on one Hulk destroys Wesker. WTF, no. Then he like "what would you know with your gimmicky online scrub team, go watch real hulk players they destroy Weskers" God I hate those kind of people.
Karsticles
Member
Still hoping someone wants to play me...
Thank you on the Morrigan compliments. Sometimes my brain would just fry and my inputs would go awry with her. She's so demanding, it's hard to keep your execution up constantly while playing her. I like demanding characters, though.
Frank West...I will try him against against a team that doesn't counter the setup. He isn't able to do anything against Wright.
Doom is unpleasant for all sorts of reasons. Personally, I like a high speed match where I have to think constantly. Doom makes everything into a boring flowchart, and I just watch my opponent block for a minute while winning. Vajra was way better than I expected. I'm interested in sticking around with that combination.
Do you not remember me using Vergil/Dormmamu/Morrigan against you for many, many matches?
Thank you on the Morrigan compliments. Sometimes my brain would just fry and my inputs would go awry with her. She's so demanding, it's hard to keep your execution up constantly while playing her. I like demanding characters, though.
Frank West...I will try him against against a team that doesn't counter the setup. He isn't able to do anything against Wright.
Doom is unpleasant for all sorts of reasons. Personally, I like a high speed match where I have to think constantly. Doom makes everything into a boring flowchart, and I just watch my opponent block for a minute while winning. Vajra was way better than I expected. I'm interested in sticking around with that combination.
Haha. Well, your team is amongst the most rage-inducing I have encountered. I've even uttered the words "nerf Phoenix Wright" on occasion. It's that goddamn shield barrier. It's a better combo breaker than Hidden Missiles, and just drives me nuts. Then Hulk throws out random GAMMA CHARGES, which need to be nerfed, and then there's XF4 Wesker to deal with. Very salt inducing.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
Yea I mean, putting Morrigan on point and Vergil as anchor. I can't recall you doing that against me that many times with those three.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
Well just look at Morrigan.
Karsticles
Member
Still looking for an opponent. I swear, the last 3 nights I turned on my PS3 and had 5 people playing Marvel. Now it's just me. -_-
Fun fact: if you cancel Soul Fist fast enough, Morrigan never says anything.
Ah, right.
Power is always sexy.Didn't know you were into the whole dominatrix thing
She's a sweet girl.
Fun fact: if you cancel Soul Fist fast enough, Morrigan never says anything.
Aw my bad bro shoulda checked back. Gotta go take a quiz at the college right now, any chance you'll be available later?
Karsticles
Member
I'll be playing until about 9PM.
K i'll add you when I get back.
I've been playing alot of LoL recently, been waiting on my copy of RE6 (God help me). I don't think you always want to play against the same person anyways!
Might Something Something
9PM Chicago time is when I get home =/
Professor Beef
Banned
I'm a bit busy for now, but are you free to play around 6 EST?
Karsticles
Member
@Shakobe:
For some reason we keep dropping. Between that, and the connection having a lot of lag, it's probably best for us to just not play.
Are you wireless by chance?
For some reason we keep dropping. Between that, and the connection having a lot of lag, it's probably best for us to just not play.
Are you wireless by chance?
Possibly!
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Anyone want to play a girl like me on XB? I'm not all that amazing, and my shitty madcatz fightpad DPad and 2 buttons are broken, but I'm still competent.
Quote for my XBL Tag
^^^^^^^^^^
Quote for my XBL Tag
^^^^^^^^^^
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Making Nova's Speed Tackle or Beam faster on startup would make him an excellent Morridoom counter.
Face it Tiger..
Banned
nobody talks about Nova
Give Nova a speed buff or a reliable way to make his normals safe.
Yes... yess
give him a real crouching low, and make his shitty special beam safe.
Nova has really easy fixes IMO:
*Cr.L hits low = Duh I can't believe some characters have to deal with this crap
*Red life is reduced only to the amount required to gain maximum benefit and no more. Ex: Using Beam hyper with 90% red health will only reduce 30% red health to gain the maximum benefit. Same applies for his specials.
*Speeding Tackle has projectile invulnerability on start up as well.
*Knockdown time reduced after throw. Can still easily combo after all throws but it's not like now where he can block a whole set of Hidden Missiles and still OTG from a throw.
*The wall bounce assist changed to Energy Javelin.
I think they need to tinker around with his red health draining specials too. The beams are hardly used at all in competitive play. Making the bare bone version be safer on block would be a start.
*Cr.L hits low = Duh I can't believe some characters have to deal with this crap
*Red life is reduced only to the amount required to gain maximum benefit and no more. Ex: Using Beam hyper with 90% red health will only reduce 30% red health to gain the maximum benefit. Same applies for his specials.
*Speeding Tackle has projectile invulnerability on start up as well.
*Knockdown time reduced after throw. Can still easily combo after all throws but it's not like now where he can block a whole set of Hidden Missiles and still OTG from a throw.
*The wall bounce assist changed to Energy Javelin.
I think they need to tinker around with his red health draining specials too. The beams are hardly used at all in competitive play. Making the bare bone version be safer on block would be a start.
Professor Beef
Banned
Busier than I thought, sorry. You still up for a few games?
EDIT: Never mind, I have to go to the store. Might as well find someone else to play with.
Dahbomb you should add 'make Proton Cannon safe on hit' to your Iron Man changes.
I'd like them to tone down the more weedy aspects of the game. Getting rid of TAC infinites is a good start. I don't think air throws should incapacitate so long that you can raw tag in another character to combo, that's all kinds of silly. I doubt they'll get that in depth with the changes though.
I'd like them to tone down the more weedy aspects of the game. Getting rid of TAC infinites is a good start. I don't think air throws should incapacitate so long that you can raw tag in another character to combo, that's all kinds of silly. I doubt they'll get that in depth with the changes though.
Tornado Condor
Member
Anyone want to play in XBL?
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Everyone ignored me... I want to..
Tornado Condor
Member
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Ready to be owned! ill invite
Karsticles
Member
Aside from the assist change, fuck Nova buffs. Top candidate for most witless character in the game.
Sure, why not give him a full screen, maneuverable Bionic Arm that destroys projectiles on startup?
Karsticles
Member
GGs, and thanks for the compliment. My biggest piece of advice to you is drop Hidden Missiles for now. It's a crutch that keeps you from learning the game.
I'm not sure how the connection was. I just got done playing Shakobe, and that was like swimming underwater, so anything would seem good. We'll play again sometime and I'll have a better idea.
All those are things he should've had from the beginning. The red life gimmick is stupid and unusable right now, anytime you have too much red health it's actually against your advantage to use the red health moves. Cr.L not hitting low is something that no character should have to deal with and the Speeding Tackle hyper can't be used on reaction against a lot of projectiles because it's not projectile invulnerable on start up. I nerfed his throw pick up time because that is the only thing that seems to me as "too good". I didn't even change his air dashes even though his d/f air dash is low like IM's. He has enough options to move around among his slide, j.S and centurion Arts plus a fast up/down dash.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Yeah i havent had a good couple of weeks with this game. GGs silva *Goes to find RPG to play*
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Universal nerf, throw techs have legit break animations and cooldowns a la SF4.
No more getting hit with a ground bouncing standing H at match start for me!
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Universal buff.
Bitching enough will change the game how you want it.
Bitching enough will change the game how you want it.