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[Karsticles]

I have to admit, I don't understand Karst's current team. The point of Dorm/Harmonizer is to be able to chuck hypers all the time, but Phoenix means you can't really do that. What's the point?

1) Guaranteed Dark Phoenix. Even if I play like ass, I have an amazing comeback tool.
2) I still burn meter whenever I feel like it.
3) Keepaway teams have to reconsider their approach.

Meter burning - Chaotic Flame:
Chaotic Flame + Dark Harmonizer, Dark Harmonizer means I only pay 1/3 of a bar for Chaotic Flame. I'm not quite as random and reckless with Chaotic Flame as I once was, but I still use it when I feel like it. Folks who have played against me know that I'll Chaotic Flame an assist without worry, because with the assist gone, the neutral shifts to Dormammu's favor.

Meter burning - Stalking Flare:
Dark Harmonizer + Purification x Stalking Flare, Dark Harmonizer, charge 1D2C, Dark Harmonizer, release 1D2C is meter neutral. I won't do this early on in the match when I'm trying to get meter, but I will do it once I have 5 bars. In other words, once I get 5 bars, I can throw Stalking Flare whenever I want and not actually lose meter.

So, the overall metagame is that if Dormammu does well, my opponent has to deal with the usual meter burning hijinks. If Dormammu does poorly, my opponent has to deal with Dark Phoenix. It's a Dormammu team with a very lovely safety net.

Recently, when I tag Morrigan in to let Dormammu heal, I've even taken to doing Shadow Servant -> Chaotic Flame / Stalking Flare (depending on whether Shadow Servant hits) because while this loses me 2 bars of meter, I have total match control and tend to get the 2 bars back very quickly.

I suppose I'd be interested in hearing people's suggestions on who I could replace Phoenix with that would be an S tier anchor while properly supporting Dormammu and Morrigan in the neutral, but I don't think any anchors are on Phoenix's level aside from Vergil, and I've been down that road.

Dormammu is the second best at running away in this game, so he is quite fit for the role he needs to play in all this.

 

[Kioshen]

This is a good post. I think Wesker/Spencer/Hawkeye is a really good beginner friendly team.

Yeah but that's not what he wanted. I should have rewatched the video a little bit before posting it. I didn't remember be it so reliant on Slant shot. Maybe peekaboo could replace it somewhat but hey at least it's a starting point.

 

[Bizazedo]

on who I could replace Phoenix with that would be an S tier anchor while properly supporting Dormammu and Morrigan in the neutral

Verg-!

but I don't think any anchors are on Phoenix's level aside from Vergil, and I've been down that road.

Dormammu is the second best at running away in this game, so he is quite fit for the role he needs to play in all this.

Oh .

Hrm.

X-23 would be interesting.

 

[Karsticles]

Verg-!

Oh .

Hrm.

X-23 would be interesting.

Her assists are worse than Phoenix's! And the big juice Phoenix provides is that she can't die to an incoming mix-up. She's a guarantee that you get to play your last character and you can burn XF3 when you want to. Vergil forces you to burn XF3 right when he comes in, and X-23 has to survive the incoming mix-up.

As Zero becomes more and more popular, people will feel some pain in their decision to anchor Vergil. Phoenix...well, she'd be even worse against Zero if the player knows how to TAC glitch with him, but if Capcom weren't a bunch of dumbfucks and could patch that up then it would be fine!

Plus Dark Phoenix has the "omg chip damage" factor, which means players who try and burn X-Factor to kill Dormammu early will have a hell of a time killing her. Vergil is terrifying as an anchor, but there's no particular reason to save X-Factor for him.

 

[Dubbmobile]

Here's a mixup video with Wesker/x/Hawkeye to get you started. Also here's a nice breakdown for Wesker's basic bnb.

Good luck !

Much appreciated!!

 

[Bizazedo]

Her assists are worse than Phoenix's! And the big juice Phoenix provides is that she can't die to an incoming mix-up. She's a guarantee that you get to play your last character and you can burn XF3 when you want to. Vergil forces you to burn XF3 right when he comes in, and X-23 has to survive the incoming mix-up.

As Zero becomes more and more popular, people will feel some pain in their decision to anchor Vergil. Phoenix...well, she'd be even worse against Zero if the player knows how to TAC glitch with him, but if Capcom weren't a bunch of dumbfucks and could patch that up then it would be fine!

Plus Dark Phoenix has the "omg chip damage" factor, which means players who try and burn X-Factor to kill Dormammu early will have a hell of a time killing her. Vergil is terrifying as an anchor, but there's no particular reason to save X-Factor for him.

Oh, you wanted someone BETTER than Phoenix for your specific team, not just something different.

And not Vergil.

I can't really think of anything better, just different. It's similar to my old, admittedly favorite team in that it's lacking a neutral.

The only thing I can really do is suggest fun alternatives or joke about how I'd fight the team, but unless you make a more classic team with a neutral assist, it's not getting better.

 

[JeTmAn81]

The answer is Doom. It will always be Doom.

 

[Bizazedo]

The answer is Doom. It will always be Doom.

Yeah, but when you get TO Doom he's not a great anchor and from Karst said above, that invalidates him.

Strider'd be a better answer based on his guidelines.

 

[JeTmAn81]

Yeah, but when you get TO Doom he's not a great anchor and from Karst said above, that invalidates him.

Strider'd be a better answer based on his guidelines.

I think team synergy is probably the most important thing in this game, so that's why I say Doom. Having an S-Tier anchor is less important, and none of the best anchors would really fit with Dorm and Morrigan. Neither one of them is able to maximize the opportunity of a Vajra knockdown.

 

[Karsticles]

Oh, you wanted someone BETTER than Phoenix for your specific team, not just something different.

And not Vergil.

I can't really think of anything better, just different. It's similar to my old, admittedly favorite team in that it's lacking a neutral.

The only thing I can really do is suggest fun alternatives or joke about how I'd fight the team, but unless you make a more classic team with a neutral assist, it's not getting better.

Oh, I don't want someone better, I was just responding to someone saying that he doesn't get my team structure because now Dormammu can't burn meter freely. I was just saying I'm open to suggestions if he wants to make them. I'm loving my team.

I think neutral assists, aside from Hidden Missiles and a few others, are overvalued by the community. What makes the top players the top is that they can win matches with their anchors without X-Factor sometimes. They use assists to maximize their neutral, not create it. If you play without assists long enough, you learn how to adapt to avoid your opponent's assists, which makes the fight less hopeless than you'd think. There are assists that are extremely difficult to avoid, of course, like Hidden Missiles, Vajra, Jam Session, and Mystic Ray. That's just how it goes.

 

[Bizazedo]

I think neutral assists, aside from Hidden Missiles and a few others, are overvalued by the community. What makes the top players the top is that they can win matches with their anchors without X-Factor sometimes. They use assists to maximize their neutral, not create it. If you play without assists long enough, you learn how to adapt to avoid your opponent's assists, which makes the fight less hopeless than you'd think. There are assists that are extremely difficult to avoid, of course, like Hidden Missiles, Vajra, Jam Session, and Mystic Ray. That's just how it goes.

I agree somewhat. I think you can beat most people if you're good enough without a neutral assist and it's far less important until you hit that elite level. Hell I made it pretty far into Evo with my neutral sucking, so it'd be hypocritical if I didn't agree.

But, just the same, a neutral assist would've helped a lot and I recognize I'd need one if I got back into this game seriously (curse you Steam / WoW).

Conceptually, I like your team. I like it a lot. If I had to fight it, I'd kill Dorm and snap out Morrigan, of course, but it's still dangerous with no guarantee of victory for me. Especially in current rust state.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Her assists are worse than Phoenix's! And the big juice Phoenix provides is that she can't die to an incoming mix-up. She's a guarantee that you get to play your last character and you can burn XF3 when you want to. Vergil forces you to burn XF3 right when he comes in, and X-23 has to survive the incoming mix-up.

As Zero becomes more and more popular, people will feel some pain in their decision to anchor Vergil. Phoenix...well, she'd be even worse against Zero if the player knows how to TAC glitch with him, but if Capcom weren't a bunch of dumbfucks and could patch that up then it would be fine!

Plus Dark Phoenix has the "omg chip damage" factor, which means players who try and burn X-Factor to kill Dormammu early will have a hell of a time killing her. Vergil is terrifying as an anchor, but there's no particular reason to save X-Factor for him.

ANKLE SLICER IS A GOOD ASSIST :-(

And yeah your team is a self-destruct countdown. If I can't get out of the base before that timer hits 4 and a half bars, boom.

Guaranteed anchor thinng is a good point, but I play Phoenix because I like playing Wesker and Magneto. People are less inclined to kill them when the hell bird is around. Not once have I ever felt frustrated when people snap in Phoenix on that team, Dark Phoenix is my least favorite character to play out of the four. But because she's there I feel fine taking more risks, which is probably why it's my best team.

 

[onionfrog]

Phoenix...well, she'd be even worse against Zero if the player knows how to TAC glitch with him, but if Capcom weren't a bunch of dumbfucks and could patch that up then it would be fine!

I wish we could live in an alternative universe where that was the case.....
Then they would've left SF x Tekken alone and updated this game instead.

Also, I hate to beat a dead horse, but where is megaman? I'd main the shit out of him.

 

[Master Milk]

Anyone up for some games?

I still need to just get used to playing against people, so I'm hella free!

 

[Karsticles]

Anyone up for some games?

I still need to just get used to playing against people, so I'm hella free!

Give me 20 minutes and I'll play some.

Can I join too? Really need to get some practice. I still don't have a team.

I'm cool with it if Milk is.

 

[Sayah]

Can I join too? Really need to get some practice. I still don't have a team.

 

[LakeEarth]

Do normals/specials/super produce different amounts of red life? Like in SFxT, super damage is 100% non-recoverable.

Something fun I discovered yesterday:
If you do armor piercer with Spencer after the wallbounce has been used up, the opponent goes flying across the screen. If you cancel into bionic arm (allowing the screen to scroll), your opponent flies from corner to corner.

 

[mr. puppy]

I suppose I'd be interested in hearing people's suggestions on who I could replace Phoenix with that would be an S tier anchor while properly supporting Dormammu and Morrigan in the neutral, but I don't think any anchors are on Phoenix's level aside from Vergil, and I've been down that road.
.

i guess i'll tell you for the 50th time to pick up dante already and use Dorm/Morrigan/Dante but you won't listen to me.

 

[Master Milk]

it's hard to get any sort of rhythm going

 

[Sayah]

Well, that's enough losing for one day. GGs.

it's hard to get any sort of rhythm going

I have no clue why you're picking phoenix at point. haha

 

[Karsticles]

i guess i'll tell you for the 50th time to pick up dante already and use Dorm/Morrigan/Dante but you won't listen to me.

That team loses to Hawkeye.

it's hard to get any sort of rhythm going

Too much defensive play. Be aggressive, crazy even. It's the only way you'll learn what you can be doing.

Well, that's enough losing for one day. GGs.

Do you and Milk want to play for a while? I can go into Spectator Mode if you guys want.

You both left me. :-(

I was trying to figure out a way to level up Frank with Trish, because Trish/Frank/Wesker is a good team.

 

[Sayah]

Do you and Milk want to play for a while? I can go into Spectator Mode if you guys want.

You both left me. :-(

I was trying to figure out a way to level up Frank with Trish, because Trish/Frank/Wesker is a good team.

Gotta head out soon so won't be able to play. :/

But yeah, Trish works pretty well with that Frank assist. Maybe I should train with Frank, haha.

 

[LakeEarth]

I was trying to figure out a way to level up Frank with Trish, because Trish/Frank/Wesker is a good team.

If you can combo into the round trip hyper, you can raw tag Frank, jump up, knee drop down, and get the camera shot.

EDIT - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=884dIbeNHxw&t=16s

 

[Master Milk]

gettin used to the bullshit makes a difference

of course, until new bullshit is introduced

 

[mr. puppy]

That team loses to Hawkeye.

you're playing dorm/morrigan dude, rush that hawkeye down.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

you're playing dorm/morrigan dude, rush that hawkeye down.

Yeah go for it.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

I'm gonna have to agree with Dante he would be an awesome inclusion into your team. Do you not dig his playstyle? If I could play Dante I would totaly put him on my team.

 

["God's Beard!"]

If you put any other character than Phoenix on Karst's team, it's instantly less oppressive. There's no reason to do it. It's a complete team. I do think he should experiment with liberation assist, though.

 

[Karsticles]

GGs Milk. Thoughts on your play:
1) Again, I strongly suggest you drop Phoenix on point. It's not a good character to learn the game with...or do anything else with. She's all about the Dark Phoenix. If you want someone who has similar levels of BS, pick Strider. I used a lot of different teams to give you an idea of how very unrealistic it is for her to survive in the match's opening.

2) You use 3 air dash characters, but never air dash. One of those two things needs to change, pronto.

3) Just use c.L, c.H for Dormammu's blockstring.

4) Pushblock all melee attacks in this game until you learn what's punishable. The number of things you shouldn't pushblock is very small.

If you have any questions about the matches, let me know. I know you wanted to know about Rapid Slash. Rapid Slash moves Vergil forward and creates a stream of cuts behind him. Thus, you always have to block in the direction where Vergil is traveling, which means it crosses up, always. There is no such thing as punishing the move unless you see it coming from a distance, and then you can realistically ground throw it.

Gotta head out soon so won't be able to play. :/

But yeah, Trish works pretty well with that Frank assist. Maybe I should train with Frank, haha.

He's very "basic" like She-Hulk, you might like him.

If you can combo into the round trip hyper, you can raw tag Frank, jump up, knee drop down, and get the camera shot.

EDIT - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=884dIbeNHxw&t=16s

I had Trish on point, I was going through these things to see what works:
1) Trish combo, Max Voltage, DHC Frank's tools, DHC Rhino Charge, raw tag Frank, picture.

2) Trish combo, Wesker OTG, Round Harvest, raw tag Frank.

3) Trish combo, Max Voltage really close to the ground (TK), DHC Frank's tools (whiffs). I'm not sure if this one works. The second doesn't, and the first does.

Also, it seems to me that the team of Trish/Frank/Wesker is good for other reasons:
1) Peekaboo has pretty much the same effect Jam Session does in incoming characters, so Frank gets his bs roll setups.

2) Trish can do Round Harvest -> raw Tag frank, wesker OTG to create unblockables for Frank to level him up. Unlike the Dr. Doom setup that's typical, a player raw tagging is just as dangerous here, because you'll still get level 3-4 frank (I haven't tested it).

gettin used to the bullshit makes a difference

of course, until new bullshit is introduced

There's endless bullshit in this game!

you're playing dorm/morrigan dude, rush that hawkeye down.

Hawkeye's j.H > everything Dormammu and Morrigan can do in rushdown.

I'm gonna have to agree with Dante he would be an awesome inclusion into your team. Do you not dig his playstyle? If I could play Dante I would totaly put him on my team.

I hate his aesthetic, love his playstyle and combos. I suck nuts with him, but I played 25 matches that made me a little less terrible. Jam Session is undoubtedly extremely good for Dormammu. Another issue is that it's a total bitch to learn new anchors. -_-

If you put any other character than Phoenix on Karst's team, it's instantly less oppressive. There's no reason to do it. It's a complete team. I do think he should experiment with liberation assist, though.

And give up Soul Drain combos that steal 1.5 bars of my opponent's meter? Heeeeell no. Liberation is only realistic to set up with a wall assist like Jam Session or Hidden Missiles, because you're standing there with nothing to do for so much of the match. I have to be on the move!

 

["God's Beard!"]

4) Pushblock all melee attacks in this game until you learn what's punishable. The number of things you shouldn't pushblock is very small.

My general rule is pushblock everything except incoming attacks from quick characters.

And give up Soul Drain combos that steal 1.5 bars of my opponent's meter? Heeeeell no. Liberation is only realistic to set up with a wall assist like Jam Session or Hidden Missiles, because you're standing there with nothing to do for so much of the match. I have to be on the move!

But Stalking Flare THCs!

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

But Dante is much less risk/reward than Phoenix. Not saying Phoenix isn't bad on his team, but having Dorm and Phoenix is, how do I say unorthodox. Dante is very well rounded. Plus I shudder to try to fight Bullet Hell Morrigan and Jam Sessions.

 

[Karsticles]

My general rule is pushblock everything except incoming attacks from quick characters.

I pushblock those, too.

But Stalking Flare THCs!

What will that do for me?

Also GB, if you get a 3DS, get Kid Icarus.

IMO, though, get a Wii U for Monster Hunter 3GU, Bayonetta 2, and The Wonderful 101.

But Dante is much less risk/reward than Phoenix. Not saying Phoenix isn't bad on his team, but having Dorm and Phoenix is, how do I say unorthodox. Dante is very well rounded. Plus I shudder to try to fight Bullet Hell Morrigan and Jam Sessions.

Phoenix isn't any kind of risk for me, I almost always get the 5 bars unless someone ToDs Morrigan and Dormammu right away, and then I deserve to lose. And FChamp uses Dormammu and Phoenix together, so I'm not entirely alone. Even if I were, I like it. I don't think anchor Dante offers anything special, and Jam Session, while a great assist, isn't going to help with some of Dormammu's most brutal matchups (like Dante/Vergil/Vajra).

 

["God's Beard!"]

But I don't like Bayonetta.

 

[Karsticles]

But I don't like Bayonetta.

No one's perfect.

IMO, the 3DS's best offering is its upcoming RPG releases.

 

[diztrukted]

gettin used to the bullshit makes a difference

of course, until new bullshit is introduced

where are you all getting the pixelated avatars... I want one!

 

[JeTmAn81]

The 3DS has a bunch of great games. The WiiU has done nothing for me so far. I have no idea what it would take to bring me back to a Nintendo console since I feel pretty burned out on Mario, Zelda, etc.

 

[crimsonspider89]

No one's perfect.

IMO, the 3DS's best offering is its upcoming RPG releases.

You forgot the new Pokemon.

 

[SolarKnight]

You forgot the new Pokemon.

upcoming RPG releases.

Alright, my brother's out. Who wants to play some matches with hopefully less lag than usual?

 

[Karsticles]

You forgot the new Pokemon.

I'm not following you. Pokemon is an RPG, yes?

 

[crimsonspider89]

I know it is categorized as one but several people claim it isn't.

So make sure people remembered. Also Stag legendary.

 

[SolarKnight]

I know it is categorized as one but several people claim it isn't.

Well that's just stupid.

 

[Frantic]

Strider/Strange/Dante is so much god damn fun. I can't stop playing it. I'm considering making it my main team, even. @_@

 

[Zissou]

Strider/Strange/Dante is so much god damn fun. I can't stop playing it. I'm considering making it my main team, even. @_@

How are you able to consistently protect the Strange assist call with point Strider? I assume you're using bolts.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Who wants to play?

 

[Kioshen]

How are you able to consistently protect the Strange assist call with point Strider? I assume you're using bolts.

I'd assume it's this :

* SJ height : Vajra to make them come back down in bolts
* In between : Throw Eagle bomb ?
* Normal jump height : Bolts already cover that
* Slides below bolts (Like Nova cr.M) : Get satellite thingy in face, pops them into bolt, confirm into combo

Who wants to play?

Can't right now but I'll try to join a lobby if something gets going later.

 

[QisTopTier]

Who wants to play?

Let's play I need to fight you with my day 1 scrub strider

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Play me I suck.

 

[Frantic]

How are you able to consistently protect the Strange assist call with point Strider? I assume you're using bolts.

I always try to have Formation B out, so I dash up s.H/cr.H + Formation B while calling it, so that covers it pretty well. Otherwise, wave dash back, call Strange, wave dash in. Formation A1 works fairly well in most cases as well. You can also call Strange + TK Excalibur M to close the gap with a disjointed hitbox that you can combo off of if it hits and make safe on block. Vajra H(if timed right when they're in the air, it's safe since they'll hit Bolts on the way down, giving Strider time to recover and pressure) or L/M(Bolts hit right below where Strider appears, making it hard to throw him). When first bolt comes out, I sometimes call bird bomb repeatedly. Also Strange + Gram H is a pretty boss full screen combo.

Other than that, there are some irritating matchups where it's hard to keep safe(like Magneto with Disruptor), but it's not too hard to cover Strange with Strider if you're careful. I do have a bad habit of calling it when I've got them in a corner, which is a huge no-no unless I have Formation B out or go for j.H > Excalibur L(which is a great way to bait someone into punishing Strange), but I'm getting over that and starting to call Jam Session more.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Someone else make the lobby, I'll probably be the first to leave.

 

[onionfrog]

Someone else make the lobby, I'll probably be the first to leave.

I'll be on in a few minutes, could someone send me an invite?