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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Karsticles
Member
Yeah real talk, the way air throws work in this game is pretty stupid.
Professor Beef
Banned
Took a while for me to get to this.
- Going straight from the OTG hidden missiles to Nemesis SRK hyper actually does ~3k less damage compared to going straight to the rocket hyper without missiles. Damage scaling!
- OTG missiles -> S -> j.S is too situational due to how the missiles hit, plus you can't land in time to do the rocket hyper
- the only time calling hidden missiles was worth it is when the combo ends in the corner, where you can get this extra 20k:
c.LM, s.H, dp.M, c.M, s.H, qcf.L, (dash), j.MMH, s.MS (call hidden missiles), j.MMHS, wait til OTG, standing rocket, SRK hyper.
- good resetting option though
Professor Beef
Banned
Gonna be hopping on PSN for a little bit.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
Yes let's! Not asking for much of a speed increase though. Something like 11 frames instead of the 15 I think it is or an equivalent increase if I'm wrong. Would make it much more usable while not making it ridiculous at the same time.
Karsticles
Member
GGs Sollune.
Critique my day 1 Wesker? Beyond all the dropped combos, of course.
Critique my day 1 Wesker? Beyond all the dropped combos, of course.
Hmm well if anything I noticed you didn't do alot of jump gunshots and you didn't attempt any blockstring into teleport mixups. I don't know if it's muscle memory for you but you can't dash after the DF+H OTG into your followup. Obviously it's day 1 so these are more like tips than criticisms. It's hard to nail DF+H > Dark Hole > Level 3, so my advice is to QCF+L after the Dark Hole then do Level 3. I like your use of Raw Jaguar Kicks to get in.
Karsticles
Member
You mean normal jump gunshots? Because I definitely did superjump gunshots quite often, haha. I did go for teleport mix-ups with Dark Hole, but you pushblocked Wesker a lot, and your gunfire tended to hit Dormammu out of Dark Hole (it's a really shitty assist with a long startup time). I know I can't dash into OTG with Wesker, I kept trying to do the L teleport follow-up, would mess up, and try to salvage the situation but fail (d'oh). The Dark Hole -> level 3 failures surprised me since they worked so well in training mode.
I don't know why Wesker users don't use Jaguar Kick more often. It's safe on block when canceled properly and leads to full combos.
Professor Beef
Banned
I think I really like Nova/Hulk/Sentinel.
Karsticles
Member
Which character that requires a brain is Nova replacing?
Professor Beef
Banned
Karsticles
Member
Ah. I actually respect Nemesis.Nemesis.
You should find a way to get Haggar or Hidden Missiles in there so I can hate this team more. :lol
Just messing with ya.
Professor Beef
Banned
I can't use either of those two to save my life. And you use Dante, so you have no room to speak when it comes to hatred!
<3
EDIT: Just happy birthday'd a Zero May Cry team online for the game. BLUE BLAZES, THIS TEAM IS FUCKIN' AWESOME.
man its insulting when i'm beating some people consistently and then they go and switch to hawkeye like that is the only reason why i'm winning. it always ends up with me killing their hawkeye free. sometimes i even throw haggar in there against him just to make them feel worse.
Pushblock the dash and punish the whiffed knee. It's not bad when backed by a beam assist, though.
Karsticles
Member
Wouldn't you just not cancel into the kick if you got pushblocked? I'm not talking about using it as part of a blockstring, but as an anti-AG move. So only the very end of the dash will hit.
What's worse is losing to the stuff you're doing when someone counterpicks you. I know I shouldn't be attempting Air Play when Strider is on team B's side, but fuck if I don't realize it much later than I should try to get out of the animation ASAP and then eat pavement. :lol
Never thought I'd need matchup experience against my own configuration.
It depends. If you don't cancel into the kick, and they still pushblock, Wesker still retains momentum until he recovers and will end up in the other character's face at a minor disadvantage, leaving him free to a ground throw. Not sure if he can be punished with a normal, but a ground throw for sure. You might be able to use the dash's momentum to cancel into the kick and still connect it, but I'm not sure on that. It's been a while since I've labbed it up with Wesker.
If you're using it as an anti-pushblock, the startup on it is pretty long and most characters should have already recovered and be able to jump and avoid it by the time it reaches them.
Karsticles
Member
Hum. I'll fiddle with it some more and see how it turns out.
Karsticles
Member
I even PMed you and asked if you wanted to play earlier!
Oh crap I did not see it! Was playing KOF with a friend. Tomorrow maybe? I'm trying to learn more characters so as usually it will be a lot of L's for me.
It's probably better than I'm making it out to seem, honestly. I tend to look for move's weaknesses more than its strengths, so I can either try to cover up its weaknesses when I'm playing the character, or so I can punish improper usage when I encounter someone playing that character. It can be kind of bad, since a lot of times I refuse to use a move that would be useful in a certain situation because I'm afraid of them punishing it.
Karsticles
Member
Want to play now?
I'm too new to the move to really discuss it in more detail, but I appreciate the perspective you gave.
Killa Sasa
Member
Seriously, it's important to do this. Oddly enough, my team isn't super-well equipped to deal with Spider-Man.
Twas not amused when I learned this firsthand :lol
Dante can actually be really free to Dante, since he's rather weak against safe 'in-your-face' rushdown, which is something he's really good at doing. He also likes going up against characters that have normals almost or as slow as his own.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Karma.
The funny thing is it isn't this kind of Dante that gives me problems (although I'm still omega free to enough crossups/high-lows from a competent Dante). It's actually the mashy type that gets me most just because you expect people to exert some sense of moderation playing 8 frames, but then you see shit like full screen Scat Shot, Million Stab for spacing, blockstrings nd you kinda just throw everything out like "what now?"
At that point, I usually just Devil Trigger, triple jump and chill in the sky coming up with a plan while they run into Vajra assist a few times.
Reminds me of the Gen vs Fei flowchart at times. :lol
Karsticles
Member
Anyone else want to play before I shut down?
Edit: Something I learned today. Morrigan > Hulk+Sentinel Force. Gamma Charge pushes her far enough away that the drones go over her c.L, so I can just chain c.L into itself until the drones pass over. Looks incredibly scrubby.
Huh? I played like 4 different non-GB GAFers today sir.
Edit: Something I learned today. Morrigan > Hulk+Sentinel Force. Gamma Charge pushes her far enough away that the drones go over her c.L, so I can just chain c.L into itself until the drones pass over. Looks incredibly scrubby.
Since Vanilla, I have conceived only two necessary adjustments to the Marvel 3 system. I do not want any characters nerfed as I feel they are developing well; current tournament choices are quite varied and even conservative playing is finding success as defense improves. Character buffs to make the lowest more relevant would be welcome. Regardless, I propose two major adjustments and one minor tweak:
1. Characters in X-Factor receive damage proportionate to the damage boost earned. If a character deals 150% damage in X-Factor, they receive 150% as well. As a defensive mechanic, X-Factor is great; it cancels actions making them safe, can be used to punish maneuvers with small windows of frame disadvantage, and nullifies chip damage. As an offensive mechanic it is problematic, not because it is strong but because it is without risk.
The damage increase and speed increase are interesting, they are exciting, and I would not adjust them (A universal single X-Factor level is fun to theorize but would never be implemented, so I'll stick to what's plausible). I will even accept that losing two characters to earn Level 3 X-Factor involves risk, so the concept of multi-level X-Factor is acceptable. I feel activating X-Factor robs the winning player of momentum instantly (Henry Cen mentioned this on Wakeup SRK a year ago). Momentum is immediately transferred to the losing player because they now possess the damage output to turn the tide of battle as well as the speed to grant mobility or advantage where previously they lacked (We're seeing a lot of "counter X-Factoring" lately because players are aware of how activating robs momentum). With increased mobility and damage, and less frame disadvantage in X-Factor, there is little deterring the X-Factored player from charging their opponent when previously they were backed in a corner having been put there by their opponent. Suddenly, the winning player cannot afford to maintain their own pressure (pressure that had been winning the game) because they cannot threaten with chip damage, they cannot afford to trade fearing a counter hit, and they will not want to call assists fearing what would normally be some damage from a hit is now lethal damage. The idea of trading and telling your opponent, "No, you cannot counter poke, you cannot escape, you are stuck here" is removed as one counter hit can result in a lost character. The only way to instill a bit of risk in the X-Factored player's offense is increasing their own damage intake. Is it worth pressure with launchers if one punishment means game over?
2a. Team Aerial Counters yield a combo opportunity. Team Aerial Counters result in a wall bounce, aerial flip state, or hard knockdown after a failed side, upward, or downward exchange. Characters successfully countering an exchange will regain mobility upon touching the ground to capitalize on a combo opportunity. Alternatively, players may X-Factor after countering to take advantage of air Hypers or air dashes/flight to combo sooner.
2b. In Vanilla, diagonal directions were ignored in attempts to counter an aerial exchange. I always felt priority should be given to diagonals (Up-forwad countered upward exchange, down-forward countered side, down-back countered downward, and up-back countered side). This allows a 33% manual guess and a 25% roulette if players wanted to spin the stick and mash an Team Aerial Counter (this has its own disadvantages).
These changes adjust the major problem I see with Marvel 3's system: disproportionate risk versus reward. The strongest options in this game are often safe 50/50 mixups (teleport+beam assist, Zero versus incoming characters) and safe, constant offense (Characters like Spencer and Wesker who with safe pokes, command throws, and high mobility never need to stop attacking; assists aid them even moreso). I have some personal issue with overall damage output, but I will just accept this as a high damage game. Tournament standard changing to 3/5 helped this game so much. It allowed room to condition opponents as well as adjust across a series of matches. Changing my perspective took me from a love/hate relationship with Marvel 3 to a healthy like relationship. The only issue I see with this game is a lop-sided risk/reward; without touching characters, the only way to inject a healthy dose of risk is to tweak the X-Factor and TAC mechanics within the system.
1. Characters in X-Factor receive damage proportionate to the damage boost earned. If a character deals 150% damage in X-Factor, they receive 150% as well. As a defensive mechanic, X-Factor is great; it cancels actions making them safe, can be used to punish maneuvers with small windows of frame disadvantage, and nullifies chip damage. As an offensive mechanic it is problematic, not because it is strong but because it is without risk.
The damage increase and speed increase are interesting, they are exciting, and I would not adjust them (A universal single X-Factor level is fun to theorize but would never be implemented, so I'll stick to what's plausible). I will even accept that losing two characters to earn Level 3 X-Factor involves risk, so the concept of multi-level X-Factor is acceptable. I feel activating X-Factor robs the winning player of momentum instantly (Henry Cen mentioned this on Wakeup SRK a year ago). Momentum is immediately transferred to the losing player because they now possess the damage output to turn the tide of battle as well as the speed to grant mobility or advantage where previously they lacked (We're seeing a lot of "counter X-Factoring" lately because players are aware of how activating robs momentum). With increased mobility and damage, and less frame disadvantage in X-Factor, there is little deterring the X-Factored player from charging their opponent when previously they were backed in a corner having been put there by their opponent. Suddenly, the winning player cannot afford to maintain their own pressure (pressure that had been winning the game) because they cannot threaten with chip damage, they cannot afford to trade fearing a counter hit, and they will not want to call assists fearing what would normally be some damage from a hit is now lethal damage. The idea of trading and telling your opponent, "No, you cannot counter poke, you cannot escape, you are stuck here" is removed as one counter hit can result in a lost character. The only way to instill a bit of risk in the X-Factored player's offense is increasing their own damage intake. Is it worth pressure with launchers if one punishment means game over?
2a. Team Aerial Counters yield a combo opportunity. Team Aerial Counters result in a wall bounce, aerial flip state, or hard knockdown after a failed side, upward, or downward exchange. Characters successfully countering an exchange will regain mobility upon touching the ground to capitalize on a combo opportunity. Alternatively, players may X-Factor after countering to take advantage of air Hypers or air dashes/flight to combo sooner.
2b. In Vanilla, diagonal directions were ignored in attempts to counter an aerial exchange. I always felt priority should be given to diagonals (Up-forwad countered upward exchange, down-forward countered side, down-back countered downward, and up-back countered side). This allows a 33% manual guess and a 25% roulette if players wanted to spin the stick and mash an Team Aerial Counter (this has its own disadvantages).
These changes adjust the major problem I see with Marvel 3's system: disproportionate risk versus reward. The strongest options in this game are often safe 50/50 mixups (teleport+beam assist, Zero versus incoming characters) and safe, constant offense (Characters like Spencer and Wesker who with safe pokes, command throws, and high mobility never need to stop attacking; assists aid them even moreso). I have some personal issue with overall damage output, but I will just accept this as a high damage game. Tournament standard changing to 3/5 helped this game so much. It allowed room to condition opponents as well as adjust across a series of matches. Changing my perspective took me from a love/hate relationship with Marvel 3 to a healthy like relationship. The only issue I see with this game is a lop-sided risk/reward; without touching characters, the only way to inject a healthy dose of risk is to tweak the X-Factor and TAC mechanics within the system.
Killa Sasa
Member
Both are solid IMO, Spider-Man doesn't get too much from Vajra and confirming from it is kinda hard but I think it's doable.
Spider-Man/Morrigan doesn't have the greatest direct synergy but if you're flying around while building bar for her, it can definitely work. Also, you don't even really need DHC synergy unless you need to kill, since a DHC can just set up Astral Vision.
tl;dr they're both good shells attached to an annoying MFer so I think they can work.
---------
Archon, those ideas are pretty interesting. Especially the 1st one. Could make trying to foil someone's XF a lot more interesting.
I think everyone believes there should be some risk (or THINKING) involved with TAC's. I've maintained that they're the worst aspect of the game by far.
Karsticles
Member
There's a reasonably big tournament going on in the EU right now for this game, so it's certainly not dead.
"God's Beard!"
Member
this shall be known as god's beard salty gif.
He looks moved to tears though. Did Mega Man get announced?
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I am at the new york comic convention and saw a character that should be in ultimate marvel versus capcom 3. Karsticles would love him.
Karsticles
Member
Megaman, or...? Take a picture!
Mephisto confirmed.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
I did!
Can't upload now. Have to wait until I get home.
Can't upload now. Have to wait until I get home.
Karsticles
Member
Thanks for thinking of me.
It could be any number of demons. :-O Jedah, Blackheart, Mephisto...I want them all in this game!
"God's Beard!"
Member
Jedah is already in the game, he just looks like Dante.
Karsticles
Member
And they changed his moveset...
So last night I experienced the pure amazement of Deadpool's grenades. His guns are overrated, those grenades are amazing. Nothing destroys them short of hypers, and it's just so good to jump into your opponent's face like you're going to attack, and throw a grenade while running away instead...
I love Deadpool. Also, Happy Happy Trigger does ass damage. Like 260K mashed, while Chaotic Flame pops out 320K.
I ditched them both for Shuma.
DAT DHC SYNERGY.
Shuma Laser-> Crawler Assault = +6 Web throws? Yes please.
Karsticles
Member
Other tier whores? Implying that ChrisG is a tier whore?