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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!

Dahbomb

Member
Toning down her durability would just mean that characters who can already fight her can fight her better where as characters who lose to her badly will still continue to lose badly to her. Characters like Magneto and Deadpool would rejoice but someone like Iron Fist and Haggar can't really do much about it anyway.

They should tweak the fireballs in AV which is the main problem. Having fireballs come from behind you it's lame as hell, characters with no real air stall options have to sit there and eat the chip with no reliable way to retaliate.

Morrigan is at the very least a good litmus test for how ill equipped some characters are in the game. This should be using her as a way to buff characters so that they can at least fight her when she has assists + AV up.
 
Toning down her durability would just mean that characters who can already fight her can fight her better where as characters who lose to her badly will still continue to lose badly to her. Characters like Magneto and Deadpool would rejoice but someone like Iron Fist and Haggar can't really do much about it anyway.

They should tweak the fireballs in AV which is the main problem. Having fireballs come from behind you it's lame as hell, characters with no real air stall options have to sit there and eat the chip with no reliable way to retaliate.

Morrigan is at the very least a good litmus test for how ill equipped some characters are in the game. This should be using her as a way to buff characters so that they can at least fight her when she has assists + AV up.
Yeah, I feel like there's this gap between characters who have aerial mobility, and those without. All of the She-Hulk and Frank West resets, the Ultimate Web setups, everything is pretty much "anti-non-air dashers". These characters are also screwed by incoming mix-ups. It would be healthy for the game for every character to get some form of aerial maneuverability.

I'm not sure what Astral Vision would do if Soul Fists didn't come from behind the opponent though, haha. One must also not forget that Astral Vision is not easy to set up all the time. It's not some amazing 4+0 move like the Devil Triggers or Sougenmu, it has like 30 total frames of startup. It can't be used for unblockables like Zero, it can't be used to gain ridiculous mix-ups like Vergil, it can't be used to gain a meterless Hard Drive that's positive on block, etc. All of the buff moves are pretty ridiculous, so it seems Astral Vision needs to be, too.

Also, I think Sougenmu is actually superior to Astral Vision in terms of lockdown and chip damage. Sougenmu locks you down for its entire duration, and when I watch health bars go down it looks to be more effective than Astral Vision as well. One day someone will run that Zero/Morrigan/Doom combo and folks will see how good Sougenmu is.

So would having the astral vision soul fist's disappear if morrigan is hit asking too much?
Or having all soul fist disappear if morrigan is hit?
I would be okay with the former, but not the latter. Mostly because Morrigan's entire rushdown game is based on the fact that you can Soul Fist, fly cancel, and then air dash in, and the projectile will protect your approach. It balances out how awful her mix-ups are without a pinning assist. If Soul Fist disappeared when Morrigan takes damage, characters with good anti-airs would whack her without fear as she approaches.

But again, I just don't think Morrigan is a problem. I really don't, and I'll stick with that opinion until someone wins with Morrigan in a major without Hidden Missiles.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I mean stuff like giving Iron Fist the ability to use Rising Fang without using 2 Rekkas before it and be usable in the air. This would mean that he has options against her and can actually risk doing the move for a potential break through.

Or give Haggar a command roll to advance under projectiles and armor on his Hoodlum Launchers so he can eat a fireball while getting in.

Zero is fucking cheap as shit, let's not get started on that character.


So would having the astral vision soul fist's disappear if morrigan is hit asking too much?
This is a good change. Personally I hate most forms of "combo breakers" in the game anyway. Only ones I like are Dorm's spells because he earned that during battle.
 
Also, I think Sougenmu is actually superior to Astral Vision in terms of lockdown and chip damage. Sougenmu locks you down for its entire duration, and when I watch health bars go down it looks to be more effective than Astral Vision as well. One day someone will run that Zero/Morrigan/Doom combo and folks will see how good Sougenmu is.

Assuming you get the first hit and you get an optimal combo that kills for one bar, that'll leave zero with what, 2 bars including 2 harmonizer calls? So if you lock down the incoming character you could feasibly get 3 sougenmu chip loops with a good setup. How much damage is that with hidden missiles on block?
 
I mean stuff like giving Iron Fist the ability to use Rising Fang without using 2 Rekkas before it and be usable in the air. This would mean that he has options against her and can actually risk doing the move for a potential break through.
I'm okay with this if Rising Fang no longer destroys projectiles. Otherwise you're giving him a Charging Star that wall bounces, and that would be too much bullshit for me. I can barely contain my rage against Captain America's herpaderpa.

Or give Haggar a command roll to advance under projectiles and armor on his Hoodlum Launchers so he can eat a fireball while getting in.
Ehhh, I'm iffy on these. Haggar is already the longest, most boring fight for Dormammu in the game because he takes forever to chip out, and then you'll give him an invincible command roll? Gah! Armored Hoodlum Launcher would be unfair to rushdown characters.

Assuming you get the first hit and you get an optimal combo that kills for one bar, that'll leave zero with what, 2 bars including 2 harmonizer calls? So if you lock down the incoming character you could feasibly get 3 sougenmu chip loops with a good setup. How much damage is that with hidden missiles on block?
IDKLOL.
 

Dahbomb

Member
I'm okay with this if Rising Fang no longer destroys projectiles. Otherwise you're giving him a Charging Star that wall bounces, and that would be too much bullshit for me. I can barely contain my rage against Captain America's herpaderpa.
But that's the point though... if it didn't have that property it would be ass cause then he would just get hit by projectiles using that move. The move would be very unsafe on block though and he doesn't have an air hyper to cancel into meaning he can't even bait out a button like Cap. It's a pure risk reward type thing.

Gah! Armored Hoodlum Launcher would be unfair to rushdown characters.
He already owns rushdown characters as it is. You can bait that out like his other moves and punish him that way.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Oh god we are in the Marvel cycle....

It never ends. I swore myself after seeing that Sven article that I would not let myself get sucked into it.

The crack that you can never quit....

I like how people keep wanting to give grapplers moves that don't even fit their Marvel archetype.
Haggar already has a ground roll though. Let him use that without being knocked down.
 
Oh I figured you tested all that stuff like with your Dante setup.
I was just talking observations from streams.

But that's the point though... if it didn't have that property it would be ass cause then he would just get hit by projectiles using that move. The move would be very unsafe on block though and he doesn't have an air hyper to cancel into meaning he can't even bait out a button like Cap. It's a pure risk reward type thing.
So you want to make all of my characters, who can only approach in the air, have to deal with a character with an anti-air that ground bounces and destroys projectiles? I want Iron Fist to be good, too, but the answer isn't slapping a "universal response" move on him. It wouldn't even matter if the move is unsafe, because my characters can't punish shit.

He already owns rushdown characters as it is. You can bait that out like his other moves and punish him that way.
Then why would you want to make the matchup worse? The goal is to equalize matchups, not make them even more polarized. That's why I firmly supported Dormammu's Flame Carpet nerf when it happened. Nerf dumb things and things that make matchups imbalanced. Promote thoughtful bullshit that takes work.

I like how people keep wanting to give grapplers moves that don't even fit their Marvel archetype.
Like Wesker's teleport and gunshot? ;-)
 

onionfrog

Member
Well I've done my part. Just made a twitter account and tweeted to all 3 of them that an update to UMVC3 would be great and I'd buy it day one.
 
Wesker isn't a grappler. He just has a command grab. I know you've never played SF, so I forgive you for not knowing the difference.
A grappler is someone who gets the majority of his/her damage off of command grabs. When Wesker is played properly, that's what happens. Yipes and Viscant prove it. I was mostly joking, but there's a bit of seriousness there.

Well I've done my part. Just made a twitter account and tweeted to all 3 of them that an update to UMVC3 would be great and I'd buy it day one.
Good man!
 
GGs Beef. Your Joe is super slippery. I can't kill him with a clean combo so I rely on just chipping him down little by little. He was owning my Nova after awhile.
 

onionfrog

Member
Seriously though, Doom Missiles have to go when he's hit. If nothing else, that's the only thing I want changed.
Agreed. Doom Missiles are too good.
They do everything: Anti-air, Screen control, combo breaker, OTG...
Honestly I'm fine with Vajra its not a combo breaker and if you catch the assist you can kill strider off really easily.
It wouldn't hurt if characters with terrible assists got some new assists too.
 
Vajra is a combo breaker and is totally BS when used by teleport rushdown characters. Really I just hate the hard knockdown, though. Soft knockdown on air and I'd be okay with it, but it would still be OP.

Also, it's funny that everyone complains about Hidden Missiles. Seth Killian preached that assist since pre-release and everyone ignored him.
 

onionfrog

Member
Vajra is a combo breaker and is totally BS when used by teleport rushdown characters. Really I just hate the hard knockdown, though. Soft knockdown on air and I'd be okay with it, but it would still be OP.
I'm probably really biased since Vajra works really well with felicia. It doesnt seem like half the combo breaker that hidden missiles is though.
I preached Liberation assist pre-release and it's still the best :)
Really? Don't you have to have dark spells stocked in order for it to be any good?
Although I guess if you could stock your spells in a combo and be able to combo after raw tagging Dorm out....
 

Dahbomb

Member
Most assists are combo breakers though, that's not just a property of Vajra.

You can get combo broken by Doom's Plasma Beam. Hidden Missiles have the BS property where even if you hit the assist you can get combo broken.

And Wesker is a grappler although he would be more of one had an anti-air command grab and can combo off of his ground throw. Spencer is a pure grappler for sure.


So you want to make all of my characters, who can only approach in the air, have to deal with a character with an anti-air that ground bounces and destroys projectiles? I want Iron Fist to be good, too, but the answer isn't slapping a "universal response" move on him. It wouldn't even matter if the move is unsafe, because my characters can't punish shit.
Oh noes a character has a highly risky option against my characters what will I do now?

And how is it possible that your characters can't punish something like Charging Star on block? If you don't push block you can easily punish it.
 

shaowebb

Member
Ive already marvel cycled more than I can count so the only thing I'll push for is FAR more single player content in a new Marvel in hopes of it honestly generating more pull with casuals. With so many fighters on the market casuals will only know this one by Marvel, but heck even Blaz Blue has waaaaaaay more single player lifespan than Marvel so to casuals its likely a better value. Big story mode, local H&H mode, unlock mode expanded with more than just music and art but also with costume alts, videos, and comics to read, have a mission tower loaded with bizarre gimmick matches with rewards and just plain add more to make folks OTHER than us folks that watch streams buy it.

Great game with a lot of depth wont matter to casuals when its barebones on content for single player casuals to dig through. After all, online for them is like a living hell because they WILL get stomped and lose interest in it. Yes this is my new gripe with fighters because until its given the respect it needs good fighters will continue disappearing because they wont be making as much money as they should in this saturated market because they wont stand out as a good investment to casuals.
 
I think Vajra is up there with Hidden Missiles especially if used with the right character. As Karst mentioned, teleport characters such as Wesker and Vergil can abuse it like no other. It's like a heat seeking footdive for them. I think missiles gets the edge though because Strider will most likely die if you can punish that assist.
 
Hey Nova gets good mileage off Vajira as does Zero and Viper and they aren't teleporters either.

And update come forth, fully expecting Wanda to make it.

And probably Panther.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Wesker isn't a grappler. And just because Spencer has a grapple wire doesn't make him a grappler lmao.
Spencer can combo off of his regular throws, has a ground command grab AND an anti-air command grab. Only thing he's missing is a LVL3 command grab which aren't that great anyway.

Felicia is a grappler too. A lot of these characters game plan revolves around getting grabs.

If Nova or Magneto had command grabs they would be the best grapplers in the game.
 
It's really just Vajra's hard knockdown that pisses me off. When it combo breaks Chris on Sollune's team he gets a full combo on me. -_-
 
Felicia/Spencer are grappling rushdown hybrids IMO. Has good pressure and tools to keep ignoring pushblock and going ham and have there grabs, both normal and command to help open you up and then Spencer just kills and Felicia goes into reset city.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Fine, everyone's a grappler.

Marvel Minions...
At the bare minimum you need to be able to get combos off of your throws and have a ground command grab. Full on grapplers have command grabs against jumping opponents or even hypers that are command grabs. Haggar, She Hulk and Thor have all the tools of grapplers in this game while other characters have 1 or two less tools than them but still are grab heavy (like Spencer).

While someone like Joe or Trish are not grapplers at all.
 

Dahbomb

Member
It's universally agreed that 80K is fucking stupid and a clear oversight when they forgot about that but took out Spider Man's 100K.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Kinda hard for me to consider any of those characters grapplers since their game doesn't revolve around getting in for the grab for maximum payoff. I wouldn't say Haggar is either.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Kinda hard for me to consider any of those characters grapplers since their game doesn't revolve around getting in for the grab for maximum payoff. I wouldn't say Haggar is either.
Haggar and Spencer get TODs off of all their grabs and command grabs...

Both their game plans involve getting in and opening the opponent up. Spencer has an actual high low game to open with outside his grab game.
 
It's universally agreed that 80K is fucking stupid and a clear oversight when they forgot about that but took out Spider Man's 100K.

150k.

Old web throw was silly stuff, but being able to combo off it is far more important. Would not mind if they brought back that unscaled nonsense with the new properties. Old push back on his normals too. 900k to a million damage freeeeeeee.

In other news, Thor is fun in training mode. Gonna see what he can do.
 
Haggar and Spencer get TODs off of all their grabs and command grabs...

Both their game plans involve getting in and opening the opponent up. Spencer has an actual high low game to open with outside his grab game.

What combos are you doing with Spencer that TOD off regular grabs? I know command throw in the corner, but regular throw mid screen?
 
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