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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!

D

DeadPhoenix9065

Member
Karsticles said:
Indeed. I have a thread dedicated to Soul Drain on SRK. I'm a huge fan of the move. These are all the ways I know that Morrigan can kill Phoenix and ruin Dark Phoenix:

1) j.S, s.LM, f.M, qcf.S, dp.AA
2) j.S, s.LMH, s.S, sj.MMH, dp.M (XFC), qcf.S
3) dp.M/H, qcf.S (XF2 or 3 active, any time in a combo)
4) j.S, s.LMH, s.S, sj.MMHS, qcf.S, dp.AA
5) TAC to Morrigan, air dash down immediately, qcf.S, fly, ADD j.S, qcf.S, dp.AA
6) s.LMH, f.H + pinning assist, qcf.H, Astral Vision, qcf.S, fly, s.S, sj.MMHS, qcf.S, dp.AA

That last one steals 1.5 bars.

Yeah, it's definitely best to just let Morrigan chip you out. Morrigan has the worst rushdown plan in the game, so just be patient and let nature take its course. Of course, if Morrigan is willing to burn meter, Astral Vision makes Dark Phoenix's life hell. Not as bad as Dr. Doom when he's played right, but bad. I've actually gotten to the point where I wonder who doesn't have a sure-fire way to kill Dark Phoenix. Even fucking Thor can beat her.
Click to expand...

But lucky for Dark Phoenix, she has feathers. Which helps lessen the crap Morrigan throws at her. s.H into TK overdrive M or H to get away from the soul fist behind her. But as usual her health is something that going to keep her from staying away for too long.

These are true anti-Dark Phoenix tech. She can't escape any of these unless human error occurs. (spacing, timing, ect.)
Spider-Man - Hyper grab after transformation
Morrigan - Snag meter before death
Wesker - command grab after transformation
Nemesis - command Grab after transformation
Thor - command grab after transformation
Skrull - command Grab after transformation
Frank - Hyper Grab after transformation
She-Hulk - Hyper Grab after transformation
Tron -Hyper Grab after transformation
Hagger - Hyper Grab after transformation
I think I'm missing a few. I've seen these in action so can confirm.

Everyone else, I've yet to see one. There is a suppose one from Nova, but it can be blocked and leaves him open for punish. A cap one where he finishes Phoenix with a grab. She transforms and he can grab her again. Can break out of it...
So not everyone...yet...
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Comments in bold near the changes.

God's Beard said:
God's Beard's official master balance changelist for 2013

My goal here is to increase viability of all characters and increase the utility of lesser-used moves while not breaking established precedent(no x-factor burst or random new moves or unlimited air specials). Maybe make some things more fun as well while creating new possibilities.

System
  • X-factor values changed from 40/70/100% combined boosts to 20/50/70% combined(I don't want to break X-factor either way, but some of the boosts let to too many weird chip blockstrings and random brainlessness) Why? X-Factor comebacks are pretty tame these days outside of a few characters.
  • Post-TAC meter build scales to 0% in long combos(this should solve a lot of the TAC infinites while still letting people style on each other. Also allows low damage characters to convert off of a now-risker TAC) How does this solve infinites?
  • Breaking a TAC causes a hard knockdown on the attempting character(TAC's aren't going anywhere but this would make people really consider if the risk is worth it) TACs are still random? Fail sir, fail.
  • Point character's health bar is moved to the top slot, anchor character is moved to the bottom I like my point character focused in the middle.
  • throw techs have increased pushback Good change.
  • mid-late combo damage scaling increased by 25%(I like this one because it keeps zoning/chip damage the same and it doesn't hurt characters that rely on odd hits, but decreases the overall damage of full conversions from combo-heavy rushdown characters by 100-200k and adds real reset incentives) What is "mid-late"?
  • meter build from getting hit decreased by 25% Why does this need to change?
  • meter build from blocked attacks increased by 20% for both sides Why does this need to change?
  • invincibility on crossover counters increased Which ones and how much? Generalized changes are bad in a game like this.
  • juggle limit on assists removed(aka the return of double snaps, baby!) You want to make self-OTG characters even better?
  • player match and offline versus added to Heroes & Heralds mode Yay!
  • all cards and Herald colors unlocked Sure, why not.


Akuma
  • Health increased to 800,000(from 750,000) I'm okay with this.
  • Startup on Ashura Senku decreased by 5 frames(now 9), can be guided left/right using the joystick if the S button is held down Seems like a change just for the sake of a change.
Amaterasu
  • new move: 22S(Bloom), builds 30% meter, lasts 120 frames Wat. I liked Chrisis' aerial Cold Star idea better.
  • when choosing the counter assist, the THC hyper is now Veil of Mist Get rid of the counter assist. Why would you want to nerf her THC? Okami Shuffle is the best THC in the game next to Million Dollars.
Arthur
  • Can chain daggers in the air without limit
  • Heavenly Slash assist replaced with Scatter Crossbow Good.
  • Armor break is now a soft knockdown Good.
  • Shield Deflect startup now 3 frames(from 5 frames) Good.
  • Cross Sword is now special-cancelable Good.
  • Golden Armor now lasts for 1500 frames(from 1200) It shouldn't be on a timer.
Captain America
  • Shield Slash now returns immediately when offscreen, allowing better corner combos He has fine corner combos, you just need to do your air series differently and not suck.
  • Stars and Stripes assist is invincible until the 1st active frame, 30 frames of recovery after landing added Oh no you don't!
  • Backflip recovery reduced by 5 frames(now 29 frames total) Eff that.
Chun-Li
  • Total jump frames reduced by 6(now 40) Net effect?
  • Airdash now travels 50% farther, retains same total active frames No.
  • Spinning Bird Kick and EX charge times reduced by 10 frames(now 25 and 50 frames) Fine.
  • Tenshokyaku is now dash-cancelable, floats opponent lower Cool idea.
  • Kikosho is now OTG-capable Good.
  • Health increased to 900,000(from 850,000) Why not 950K even? Kikoken should recover faster.
Chris
  • New Command Normal(Air Horizontal Shot): j6H, fires a pistol directly in front of Chris, otherwise exactly the same as Air Low Shot Why does everyone want to give Chris horizontal shots?!
  • Grenade Toss L assist replaced with Grenade Toss H Good, but fix the animation.
  • Chris' gun specials can now be canceled into Prone Position Sure.
  • Stun Rod now causes crumple on counter hit Amusing idea.
Crimson Viper
  • New move added(AA Optic Laser): S(charge), same as Optic Laser but 45 degrees upward -_-
  • Seismic Hammer assist now tracks up to max distance Good.
  • EX Seismic Hammer invincibility reduced by 2 frames(now frames 1-14) Why?
Dante
  • Invincibility on Devil Trigger removed Damn straight.
  • Can now airdash while charging Multi-Lock, startup reduced to 30 frames per shot(from 40) Good change.
  • Multi-Lock projectile delay increased to 80 frames(from 60)Why?
  • Fireworks empty cancel window increased by 1 frame(previously a 2-frame window)Good change.
  • Sky Dance now locks in opponents on hit and always causes hard knockdown, no longer resets ground bounce limit Why?
Deadpool
  • Teleport Malfunction now causes soft knockdown on Deadpool, allowing him to roll and OTG with Katana-Rama in the right situationsEh.
  • Trigger Happy H assist replaced with Ninja Gift HNinja Gift L or M would be better.
  • 4th-Wall Crisis is now a level 2 hyper combo, follow-up walk animation on whiff is jump-cancelable and damage is reduced to 280,000 from 400,000Level 1 IMO.
Dormammu
  • Liberation assist replaced with Power of the Destructor
  • Purification assist now tracks up to max distance
  • Dark Hole assist replaced with Dark Matter
  • Liberation(Creation 3) is now unblockableThis just screw over heavies, who already have a hard time against Dormammu.
  • Liberation(Creation 1/2/3) are now OTG-capable
  • Liberation(Destruction- and Creation-Mixed) are invincible from frames 1-20 but disappear if Dormammu is hit, meter build reduced by 30% rofl no You're just going to make Dormammu players go back to charging 3D0C or ignoring Dark Spells altogether, defeating the purpose of the character. Try again.
Dr. Doom
  • Hidden Missiles disappear when Dr.Doom is hit Again, this just makes teleporters better. Think of changes that make sense for the whole cast.
  • Footdive only causes a regular groundbounce, no longer untechable It's fine as it is, just block it.
  • Molecular Shield projectiles move 20% slower I'm fond of their current traveling rate.
Doctor Strange
  • Daggers of Denak now have an active hitbox while floating in space That means they can be cancelled out by other projectiles.
  • Daggers of Denak M now active after 15 frames(from 31), but still fire after 45 frames
  • Grace of Hoggoth total frames reduced to 24(from 40 frames)
  • Flames of the Faltine startup increased to 15(from 12 frames)
  • Illusion(counter) Teleport is now fully invincible until the end of recovery Make it Impact Palm, too. :p
Felicia
  • Vitality increased to 900,000(from 880,000)
  • Cat & Mouse total frames reduced to 35 from 50 Have you fought Q recently? I already can't touch her with keepaway.
  • EX Charge startup reduced by 6 frames(now 6 frames)
  • Cat Spike M assist replaced with Delta Kick H
  • Kitty's Helper duration increased to 720 frames from 600 frames
Firebrand
  • Demon Missile H assist is now the fully-charged version Getting tired eh?
Frank West
  • New move(Shopping Cart):A+S(level 1 only), same as assist version, cancelable into Bottoms Up
  • Shopping Cart assist becomes a children's bicycle at level 5 that travels the same distance at half the speed
Ghost Rider
  • Health increased to 1,050,000(from 1,000,000)
  • Hellfire L creates a flame carpet on whiff with 5 durability points and hits 3 times that lasts for 150 frames
  • Heartless Spire is now Special-cancelable He's still ass with these changes. If you don't want to think about what a character needs to be better, then skip the character.
Haggar
  • forward dash is replaced by a run that continues until canceled with 1 hit of super armor. startup 15 frames
  • Hoodlum Launcher now has 1 hit of super armor during active frames Blech.
  • Rapid Fire Fist now connects properly when mashed
Hawkeye
  • Shock Value is now special-cancelable
  • Violet Shot's poison effect now persists on tag out How does that work?
  • Balalaika now lands slightly closer to Hawkeye
Hulk
  • Gamma Tornado startup decreased by 3 frames(now 8/13/15 frames), recovery reduced by 10 on all versions to allow easier follow-ups
  • Health increased to 1,300,000(from 1,200,000)
Hsien-Ko
  • New command normal(Bomb Toss): 4H, throws a 3,6, or 9-second bomb with the same frame data as Anki-Hou, is special-cancelable qcf.S is a better input
  • Bombs removed from Anki-Hou
  • Senpu-Bu now cancelable during active frames
  • Houten Geki L/M/H versions startup reduced to 5/3/1 respectively
  • Forward dash total frames reduced to 30(from 50)
  • Airdash total frames reduced to 45 from 60, distance increased by 30%, cancelable after 5 frames(from 7)
  • Walkspeed increased by 25%
Iron Fist
  • Rekkas now negate pushblock Not a bad idea.
  • Launcher now forces a tech on airborne opponents
  • Rising Fang is now a standalone special move, not air-capable Too much, too dumb.
  • Rekkas can now cancel into themselves
Iron Man
  • Smart Bombs affect a wider horizontal area
  • Launcher hitbox widened slightly
  • Crouching H now travels horizontally Very good change.
  • Airdash 10-frame deadzone removed, can now be canceled after the 7th frame(previously frame 11)
  • Normals can no longer be canceled into airdashes
  • New command normal(knee dive): j2M, 9 frame startup, +10 on hit/block, activates flight mode on contact Why would you want it to activate flight on contact?
Jill
  • Mad Beast invincibility removed, changed to a lvl 1 hyper and duration reduced to 240 frames(from 600)
  • Feral Crouch startup reduced to 4 frames(from 10)
  • Slide distance increased by 30%
Magneto
  • Magnetic Blast now has "until landing" recovery Who would use it then?
  • Crouching L is now even on block(was +1) IMO it's better to be +1 than +0; makes the timing on tick throws harder.
  • Attraction/Repulsion/Reverse Polarity can now be done in the air, recovery on all versions reduced by 5 frames Did you not see how Champ kept Haggar out by spamming this earlier? This move does not need a buff.
  • Hyper Grav M and H startup reduced by 2 frames(now 16 and 18 respectively), travel distance increased by 25%Fuck no.
  • Force Field is now special-cancelable upon activation Magneto is not getting full combos off of a reversal. I'm amused that you started this insane buff list with a nerf to ease me in, though.
M.O.D.O.K.
  • All assists become enhanced versions when Levels of Understanding are available Damn straight.
  • Flight mode duration extended by 60 frames(now 360 frames) It's already super long.
Morrigan
  • Soul Fist durability reduced to 4 low durability during Astral Vision Why? Nothing's getting through it anyway.
  • Can now block during ground dashes Still not worth using. Up-back is safer.
  • Soul Fist assist replaced with Soul Drain Good change.
Nemesis
  • Health increased to 1,200,000(from 1,150,000)
  • Super armor on standing H increased to frames 8-27(from 10-24)
  • Super armor on crouching H increased to frames 12-27(from 16-27)
  • Super armor begins 3 frames earlier on all versions of launcher slam(now 7, 12 and 8 for L/M/H versions, respectively)
  • Standing Rocket Launcher now aims slightly downwards(~15-20 degrees)
Nova
  • Centurion Rush assist replaced with Energy Javelin, does not cause any special state on hit
  • Gravimetric Pulse H assist is always the level 2 version, does 100,000 damage to Nova rather than remove red health Why not make it the level 1 version?
Phoenix
  • Health increased to 400,00(from 375,000)
  • Trap L is now OTG-capable What's the point of this?
  • Trap H assist replaced with Trap M Why M over L?
Phoenix Wright
  • Can no longer find bad evidence Needed change.
  • Paperwork active frames increased to 40 for high version and 50 for low(from 25 and 30, respectively)
  • Better momentum early during dashes, allowing a faster wavedash
  • During Turnabout mode, theme song persists on tag outIt already does, I believe. It's annoying as hell.
Rocket Raccoon
  • Log trap durability increased from 10 to 12 low durabilityHAHAHAHA.
  • Spitfire durability increased to 5 low durability You want it to be better than all other projectile assists and not be a true blockstring?
  • Mad Hopper is now OTG-capable, duration increased to 900 frames(from 600) Sure.
  • Grab Bag damage scaling reducedFair.
  • Claymore and Grab Bag startup reduced by 5 frames(now 10 and 20 frames, respectively)Fine.
Ryu
  • Shoryuken assist replaced with Hado Shoryuken, is invincible until the 1st active frame, 30 frames of recovery added upon landingIt'll have huge startup, do you think it'll actually get use?
  • Tatsumaki assist replaced with Ren Hadoken, 3 projectiles His tatsu is a great assist, though.
Sentinel
  • Now has one hit of passive super armor during flight mode I like it.
  • flight mode startup is now normal-cancelable Why not just make flight mode faster?
  • flight mode movement speed increased by 10%, duration increased by 16 frames(now 120 frames) Good change.
She-Hulk
  • Slide distance returned to vanilla distance Fuck that. She had ridiculous range; an increase is fine, but not Vanilla range.
  • Taking out the Trash hitbox widened, invincibility increased to 14 frames from 8
  • Emergency Stop now has super armor
  • Lights Out! now has super armor from frames 24-36
Shuma-Gorath
  • Overall size including all respective hit and hurtboxes increased by 25% I think increasing his hitboxes by 25% is a bit ridiculous. c.M and H are already incredible.
  • Can now move immediately after leaving Chaos Dimension, allowing easier follow-ups Good change.
  • Mystic Smash has a larger hitbox, making it harder to stuff with attacks and throws Good change.
  • Mystic Ray now pulls the opponent along its rotation This will mess up OTG stuff.
  • Throws now steal 50,000 health and 3000 meter(from 40,000 and 2000) Sure.
  • Air H and Strange Gaze now steal 1000 meter rather than doing damage Normals that steal meter are too ridiculous. The move used to turn people to stone.
  • Airdash distance increased by 50% Good change.
  • Backdash invincibility starts from frame 3(previously frame 12) Eh, but who uses it for that?
Spencer
  • Up grapple is no longer immune to damage scaling Necessary change.
  • Wire Grapple L now connects on all crouching opponents Wow, but you didn't fix this for Ghost Rider? Bias!
  • Critical Smash damage increased to 200,000 from 157,500
Spider-Man
  • Spider Sting assist now includes Spider Bite
  • Startup on all versions of Web Glide decreased by 6 frames(now 10 for upwards and 12 for downwards)
  • Capture state for all versions of web ball extended by 10 frames
  • limits on repeating air specials removed
Strider Hiryu
  • Vajra now -5 on block, assist version now soft knockdown Best change ever.
  • Ouroboros is now a level 2 hyper, duration decreased to 240 frames(from 420) Interesting idea - I could dig it.
  • Ouroboros projectiles now do 1000 points of damage on hit or block Hmm. I'd like to see the math on the damage output in XF3 from chip on this one.
  • Formation B now lasts until fired or Strider is hit Agreed.
  • Ragnarok is now a level 1 hyper, damage reduced to 200,000 What? He needs bi damage options.
  • Health decreased to 700,000(from 750,000) Not even I am this sadistic!
Super Skrull
  • Worm Squash now causes soft knockdown on standing opponents ???
  • Orbital Grudge assist replaced with Meteor Smash. Tracks the opponent, doesn't hit overhead or cause a special hit state, OTGs Aw yeah.
Storm
  • Can now airdash twice
  • Can now call assists during float Good change.
  • Startup on Fair/Foul Wind reduced by 5 frames(now 8 frames) Good change.
  • Startup on flight mode reduced by 6 frames(now 16 frames), duration decreased by 19 frames
Taskmaster
  • Projectile immunity on Shield Skill reduced by 5 frames(now frames 6-15)
  • Projectiles reflected with Guard Master H travel at double speed
  • Startup on guard masters L/M reduced to 3 frames from 5 frames
  • Legion arrow max damage reduced to 325,000 from 347,500
Thor
  • forward dash is replaced by a run that continues until canceled with 1 hit of super armor. startup 15 frames Thor is a flyer, though. I don't like this. None of his normals are worth using anyway, even with your buffs.
  • standing H has 1 hit of super armor from frames 10-20
  • crouching M negates low priority projectiles and beams during active frames Cool change.
  • Standing and Air Mighty Hurricane M are replaced with anti-air and air-to-ground versions, respectively No thank you sir. Not unless it gets more damage scaling.
  • Initial spark removed from Mighty Spark L, increasing the startup speed That initial spark is the most valuable thing about it.
  • Startup on all mighty strike versions decreased to 15-26 from 20-31, super armor now starts on frame 20 instead of 28
  • Mighty Speech startup and recovery reduced by 5 frames
Trish
  • Low Voltage durability increased to 5 low per shot from 3 low durability 15 projectile hitpoints is a lot. Arthur needs Gold Armor to get that.
  • Peekaboo capture state increased to 60 frames from 53, ignores hitstun decay, can only be used once per combo I wouldn't mind it going up to 80. Make it worth putting out there.
  • Round Trip durability increased to 1 Medium Durability ...what? This is ridiculous.
  • Round Trip's ability to pull the opponent increased slightly It already pulls them all the way to her if you use Sign Switch H. I'd rather see her Sign Switches do new stuff. Like Sign Switch L moves Round Trip up, Sign Switch M pulls them in, and Sign Switch H moves Round Trip down. That would add something to her game.
  • Flight startup decreased to 15 from 21 frames
Tron
  • Gustaff Fire negates pushblock during active frames(point version) Why?
  • Bonne Strike M assist replaced with H version
  • Bonne Mixer M replaced with anti-air version I feel like you're unifying command grabs too much.
  • Startup of all Beacon Bomb versions reduced by 8 frames(now 25/35/25 frames) Make it 20 frames, even.
  • Active frames of all servbot launcher projectiles increased by 20 frames(now 70/112/88 frames)They should fire to different points on the screen, too.
Vergil
  • Crouching H now scales to hitstun normally
  • Spiral Swords durability changed to 6 High Durability(from 18 x 5 High Beam) Medium durability IMO.
  • Spiral Swords changed to a level 2 hyper, follow ups Blistering Swords and Summoned Swords no longer cost meter Do you have to choose one or the other? If so, that's fine.
  • Spiral Swords now persists as an assist, but the timer still runs out during assist calls HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
  • Recharge glitch for Round Trip fixed
  • Invincibility on Devil Trigger removed
Viewtiful Joe
  • Groovy Uppercut assist replaced with H version I don't think her can combo off of that as easily, but I might be wrong.
  • Startup on Shocking Pink reduced by 8 frames(now 16 frames)
  • Viewtiful Joe is now considered airborne during V-Dodge Wow, Viewtiful Joe nerfs, really?
  • Viewtiful God Hand slow down effect now lasts for 720 frames(from 600)
  • air S hurtbox increasedSomeone's salty about matches with Beef. The move is fine, up your game.
  • Shocking Pink assist glitch now works properly for both sides
Wesker
  • Rhino Charge is now invincible from frames 1-5
  • 3 active frames added to all versions of Tiger Uppercut
  • Tiger Uppercut H max distance increased by 20%
  • Wesker's speed increased by 5% with glasses on
  • Wesker's speed decreased by 5% with glasses off
  • Speed/damage boosts from glasses broken removed
  • Jaguar Dash now always crosses through unless the second part is activated
Wolverine
  • Swiss Cheese can now be canceled into Drill Claw Why?
  • Berserker Slash has projectile invincibility for frames 1-10 during Berserker Charge Nope. Nope. Nope.
  • Berserker Slash assist now tracks the opponent, always crosses up before max distance Interesting change.
X-23
  • Mirage Feint L now passes through projectiles/beams Nope.
  • Limit on repeated air Talon Attacks removed Why? She gets around fine.
  • Slice attacks can be canceled with S like Mirage Feints Risk/reward is important.
  • Decapitating Slice(throw) startup reduced by 4 frames(now 22-41 frames) Why?
  • Dirt Nap floats opponent slightly higher to accommodate randomness with follow-up capabilities
  • Health increased to 900,000(from 830,000)
Zero
  • Level 3 buster cancels off of lightning no longer shoot the bolt in front of Zero
  • It is now possible to repeat air specials
  • level 3 Buster durability reduced to 5 frames x 1 low
  • Health decreased to 800,000(from 830,000)
Click to expand...
 
A

Azure J

Member
God's Beard making me want that DELICIOUS sounding AA Optic Blast. Yum.

EDIT: WHAT IN THEEEEEEEEEEE FUCK @ Vergil keeping swords as an assist. With the utmost respect to MarvelGAF, GAF ToS and you as possible, nigga are you serious?
Edit 2: How is that Jill infinite working? I clearly don't know anything about the Programming™ of this game.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
I don't even get how Jill is hitting the opponent in that video.

DeadPhoenix9065 said:
But lucky for Dark Phoenix, she has feathers. Which helps lessen the crap Morrigan throws at her. s.H into TK overdrive M or H to get away from the soul fist behind her. But as usual her health is something that going to keep her from staying away for too long.

These are true anti-Dark Phoenix tech. She can't escape any of these unless human error occurs. (spacing, timing, ect.)
Spider-Man - Hyper grab after transformation
Morrigan - Snag meter before death
Wesker - command grab after transformation
Nemesis - command Grab after transformation
Thor - command grab after transformation
Skrull - command Grab after transformation
Frank - Hyper Grab after transformation
She-Hulk - Hyper Grab after transformation
Tron -Hyper Grab after transformation
Hagger - Hyper Grab after transformation
I think I'm missing a few. I've seen these in action so can confirm.

Everyone else, I've yet to see one. There is a suppose one from Nova, but it can be blocked and leaves him open for punish. A cap one where he finishes Phoenix with a grab. She transforms and he can grab her again. Can break out of it...
So not everyone...yet...
Click to expand...
I don't think there's a way to guarantee the ground command grabs. At least I've never seen a setup for them. It has to be aerial. There's no way to ever force a ground command grab. Pre-jump frames protect you from them. For example, if Dormammu lands 0D3C on you (no jumping allowed), but you hold up, Wesker still can't command grab you.

smurfx said:
i kinda wish haggars level 3 was a level 1 hyper instead and of course it should do much less damage.
Click to expand...
I would kill for Dark Dimension to be a level 1 that does a measly 200K damage. It would be a wonderful "FUCK YOU" to Spencer and his Bionic Lancer that leads to full combos even though it shouldn't.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
As much as I don't like Haggar, I wouldn't be opposed to him having armor on the M and H versions of Hoodlum Launcher.

I like Doom Missiles leaving on hit. Make Air S non-cancellable, while you're at it. Unless you get a clean hit.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
I'll go through the responses later, but for now just know some of the changes really were just to add fun quirks to moves, and some were me going nuts because I really want to completely revamp certain character's movesets but can't actually justify doing so haha. Or tickling my own fancy.

And Worm Squash is Skrull's OTG move that only works on opponents in hard knockdown. I was hoping that you'd catch it because it's actually a troll that a 1 frame move would work on a standing oponent.

And I didn't know Ghosty's chain whiffed on some crouchers.

You guys don't think that spending 2 meters then not transforming spiral swords then tagging out to only be able to use an assist once or twice is fair on a vergil that can't even do loops any more? Granted, Vergil combos will still exist with the blistering swords extensions even if the meter build slows way down.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
@DeadPhoenix:
I've been meaning to tell you, but when you do df.H with Vergil and then cancel into Dimension Slash (qcf.AA), you don't have to teleport cancel and then do the input. You can just do qcf.MH and get the cancel + hyper to save yourself the trouble.

God's Beard said:
I'll go through the responses later, but for now just know some of the changes really were just to add fun quirks to moves, and some were me going nuts because I really want to completely revamp certain character's movesets but can't actually justify doing so haha. Or tickling my own fancy.

And Worm Squash is Skrull's OTG move that only works on opponents in hard knockdown. I was hoping that you'd catch it because it's actually a troll that a 1 frame move would work on a standing oponent.

And I didn't know Ghosty's chain whiffed on some crouchers.

You guys don't think that spending 2 meters then not transforming spiral swords then tagging out to only be able to use an assist once or twice is fair on a vergil that can't even do loops any more? Granted, Vergil combos will still exist with the blistering swords extensions even if the meter build slows way down.
Click to expand...
Go crazy GB. I'd rather read that than this stuff. It feels half-assed.

Ghost Rider's dp.L whiffs on crouching opponents in blockstun or hitstun most of the time. It's annoying as hell because it means that he doesn't get full combos on opponents who get hit while crouching. You have to qcb.L to continue the combo.

I think a running assist that clears our all projectiles and has a protective sphere around it is absurd for any meter cost. You're talking about a super Senpu Bu there.

Maximillian jumps on board with asking for more Marvel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R22Zbe2Mq9o

Good man.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Yeah I kind of lose track what I'm balancing against once I have damage scaling and new assists and changed mechanics. I think one thing's fine but then I get excited about something else and push it harder. Oh well, just scratching an itch. Good excuse to read the guide again.

Once my training challenge is done, I'm gonna play Viewtiful Joe/Jill/Shuma for a while.
 
D

DeadPhoenix9065

Member
Karsticles said:
I don't even get how Jill is hitting the opponent in that video.


I don't think there's a way to guarantee the ground command grabs. At least I've never seen a setup for them. It has to be aerial. There's no way to ever force a ground command grab. Pre-jump frames protect you from them. For example, if Dormammu lands 0D3C on you (no jumping allowed), but you hold up, Wesker still can't command grab you.
Click to expand...

Wesker has to get Phoenix to turn while grounded.
Here is Yipes and F.Champ. at 1:22
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQQ1DkbNFTw&feature=player_embedded.

Nemesis has to have phoenix turn while she is air born.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKONpD6Qx50
Skrull just needs her to turn since he can grab her with either a ground or air grab.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucTXwf0qKaM

EDIT
*facepalm* here I thought everyone had better timing...
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Man I really liked the lawnmower assist idea, too.

Also, a couple of the things you want to know karst are things I don't know either. Like increased invincibility frames on crossover counters. I pretty much want it to work into the first active frame, but I don't know what change that is. The TAC infinite solution was to let people use TACs to kill a character, but they don't get to build meter despite giving their opponent 5 bars, and they risk getting it turned around on them and losing their character instead if the TAC broke so most people wouldn't go for it. Because i have a soft spot for infinites. the double snap thing doesn't really favor self-otg characters because you could just launch over and over. that one and the sentinel flight startup being normal cancelable are my marvel 2 throwbacks
 
F

Frantic

Member
Since I was bored, and everyone seems to be doing it, went ahead and made a change list for my main characters.

Dante
  • + Damage scaling changed from 5% for normals and specials to 5% for normals and 10% for specials.
  • + Pushback on aerial normals returned to vanilla status
  • + Hitstun on j.L returned to vanilla status
  • + Pushback on cr.M returned to vanilla status. Increase active frames by 1 additional frame.
  • + Multi-Lock allows for blocking and normal attacks.
  • + Opponent's untechable time after all throws increased by ten frames
  • + Recovery on Crazy Dance(hit) decreased
  • + Tempest always causes a soft-knockdown
  • - Sky Dance no longer resets the ground bounce on the final hit. Every other hit still causes a ground-bounce + hard knockdown.
  • - No longer able to block during the prejump frames of Bold Move
  • - Grapple no longer forces a neutral tech


Strider

  • + Damage scaling changed from 3% for normals and 7% for specials to 10% for normals and specials.
  • + Formation B does not have a time limit.
  • + Legion has 1 high durability per animal. Also has one formation, and isn't randomized.
  • - Vajra assist now soft-knockdowns. Retains hard-knockdown if the combo counter is at least 2 hits(at least let me keep my hard knockdown combo extensions pls).

Trish

  • + Hopscotch hits OTG
  • + Opponent's untechable time after ground throws increased by 20 frames.
  • + Peekaboo has 80 frames of set hitstun. Decreases by 10 frames per every use in a combo.
  • + Duet Pain damage increased to 440,000, up from 400,000.
  • + Low Voltage L startup/recovery now 10/25, down from 15/35
  • + Low Voltage M startup/recovery now 15/27, down from 20/37
  • + Low Voltage H startup/recovery now 20/30, down from 25/40


My thoughts: Most of the buffs to Dante are pet peeves, like how Dante can no longer do a normal jump and combo an air to air j.L in Ultimate, or how using a max range cr.M can't be linked into a Stinger > Volcano due to the pushback. Increased untechable time on throws will just give Dante an easier time getting combos off them, but still require some timing. Tempest causing a soft-knockdown is just kind of a random thing that I'd like to see that I don't think is too unreasonable.

The special damage scaling will give him more damage in the long run, but the retained nerfs to Volcano and Beehive will keep it from getting out of hand. The nerf to Sky Dance was done to keep Beehive Loops from doing absurd amounts of damage. Not really sure if the neutral tech on Grapple is good enough to nerf, but there wasn't much else I was willing to nerf. Crazy Dance forces a neutral tech, too, which is actually why I changed the recovery on it. If you want that unblockable, you gotta learn that 2 frame link. :p

There were a couple of other things I wanted to buff, but they'd make Dante too ridiculous.

For Strider, again, pet peeves. 3/7 damage scaling is just random, and I think 10/10 is a good balance. His base damage isn't very high, so there's no reason to make his damage scaling abysmal as well. Formation B always disappears right when I need it in combos, and I always get screwed over. Legion should not lose to Plasma Beam.

The Vajra thing would probably never be an actual thing, but I like my Rainstorm combo extensions. :(

Trish basically gets throw and combo extensions with Hopscotch OTG, as well as ground throws becoming something to worry about. Peekaboo was just an idea I had seeing God's Beard's list. Duet Pain doesn't do enough damage. Low Voltage have really bad frame data, despite not being very good projectiles... so I made them faster.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
@GB: the assist killing change is best for self-OTG characters because they will find more opportunities to hit assists.

@Frantic: I think all of your changes are good and fair, but have a question about Multilock - what is considered a "special"? For example, would Bold cause you to lose your charge? It would add an interesting further level to Dante's execution game. I'm not entirely keen on him getting solo combos from air throws...
 
F

Frantic

Member
Karsticles said:
@Frantic: I think all of your changes are good and fair, but have a question about Multilock - what is considered a "special"? For example, would Bold cause you to lose your charge? It would add an interesting further level to Dante's execution game. I'm not entirely keen on him getting solo combos from air throws...
Click to expand...
Yes, Bold Move would be considered a special and you'd lose charge. I considered making it so Dante could use specials during Multi-Lock, but... eh... I don't like the idea of Dante sorta becoming Zero where he's always holding a button. I'd just like it to be able to block during it, mainly.

As for the airthrow thing... I just hate that there's no actual balance when it comes to who can or can't convert off their airthrows. Especially when some characters have forever to convert... and have the easiest time getting airthrows in the first place.
 
H

hypernima

Banned
Bring back Tron's Vanilla H... MWAHAHAA

By the way, does anyone know how to call assists in air? I swore I saw someone do it in stream today.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
God's Beard said:
Hey Karst how would you fix Ghost Rider using only the tools he already has?
Click to expand...
-Forward dash moves twice as far.
-dp.L vertical hitbox larger.
-qcb inputs are all +0 on block (you need to guess with them as anti-airs, and they're like -20 right now)
-Heartless Spire cancelable into specials and ground dashes (this was a good idea)
-Spirit of Vengeance has hyper armor from frame 1, S input follow-up is +0 on block
-all chain specials are now usable in the air at their current angles (basically, let him superjump after Trish, etc. and try to crack them down)
-dp.H goes full screen
-normals deal chip damage
-j.M startup reduced (he can do double overheads right now but it's hard as hell - this would make it more feasible)

It seems like a lot, but I think he needs all of these things to address problems with his various matchups. A good character is able to stand a good chance against the entire cast alone. I made Heartless Spire dash-cancelable to help him get in on keepaway characters. The forward dash moving twice as far is necessary to let him keep up pressure, and combined with Heartless Spire being cancelable into specials he can now self OTG off of throws. Spirit of Vengeance has hyper armor from frame 1 now because he has nothing good to DHC into or out of - this solves that problem. Normals do chip because the fact is he'll never be able to open people up reliably. It would just make him too good if he had legitimate mix-ups. dp.H goes full screen because right now the move is just weird. It's highly negative on block, only goes 3/4 screen, and you can't get anything off of it. So...I don't want to end blockstrings in it because I want frame advantage, and I can't use it in combos. It's there as a keepaway move, but I think it would be good if it were also a long-range harassment tool against rushdown.

Frantic said:
Yes, Bold Move would be considered a special and you'd lose charge. I considered making it so Dante could use specials during Multi-Lock, but... eh... I don't like the idea of Dante sorta becoming Zero where he's always holding a button. I'd just like it to be able to block during it, mainly.

As for the airthrow thing... I just hate that there's no actual balance when it comes to who can or can't convert off their airthrows. Especially when some characters have forever to convert... and have the easiest time getting airthrows in the first place.
Click to expand...
I feel you on the air conversion. Letting all characters convert would require a major overhaul, though.

hypernima said:
Bring back Tron's Vanilla H... MWAHAHAA

By the way, does anyone know how to call assists in air? I swore I saw someone do it in stream today.
Click to expand...
Jump -> call assist.

You can't call them after superjumping, though, unless you get hit.
 
A

Azure J

Member
Frantic, as much as you've proposed the most sane and understandable list for Dante yet, for the love of God, don't take Grapple shenanigans away from me! :lol

Also, GGs to Sigmaah. Didn't play anywhere near optimally. I blame overtiredness, but at the same time, WTF my reasoning, reaction time, and decisions were horrible. Also, fuck you for wavedashing under me when I was still stuck in the air. How can you expect someone to react to that when they've been up for 20 hours or so? :lol

I also know you loved that Dante combo with Burn Kick and Vajra in the corner. :p
 
S

Sigmaah

Member
Azure J said:
Frantic, as much as you've proposed the most sane and understandable list for Dante yet, for the love of God, don't take Grapple shenanigans away from me! :lol

Also, GGs to Sigmaah. Didn't play anywhere near optimally. I blame overtiredness, but at the same time, WTF my reasoning, reaction time, and decisions were horrible. Also, fuck you for wavedashing under me when I was still stuck in the air. How can you expect someone to react to that when they've been up for 20 hours or so? :lol

I also know you loved that Dante combo with Burn Kick and Vajra in the corner. :p
Click to expand...

Haha ggs man, you've improved a shit load with viper, doing mad swag combos online with her special cancels and shit. You also are doing better with Dante too. Not dropping his stuff and opening me up a lot more with him. Good stuff dude. All I gotta say for improvement is block more and kill a character with a dhc anytime you can.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Buffs on Dante....

tumblr_lyhsnjCxyy1qfriu3o1_500.gif


Dante players are the most spoiled players on the planet. Real talk.

LMAO @ God's Beard Spiral Sword as an assist. HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAH!!!! WOW oh WOW!!!!

The rest of the Vergil changes are good though.

Why the fuck do people want to buff Berserker Slash? It's currently an amazing move both to negate push block and to mix people up. Any other property on it would make it broke again.

I like those Ghost Rider changes but he still needs a bit more.


New Command Normal(Air Horizontal Shot): j6H, fires a pistol directly in front of Chris, otherwise exactly the same as Air Low Shot Why does everyone want to give Chris horizontal shots?!
Click to expand...
Because anyone who has played Chris knows that he's completely free from opponents who approach from there. For a zoning character Chris at times feels very limited.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Caj814 said:
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Ultimate Exhibition Vol. 3
Finally done after working on it off and on for some time. Hope you all enjoy
Click to expand...
Good stuff as always, dude.

Dat Haggar/She-Hulk/Hsien-Ko combo tho. The Skrull and Hawkeye ones were also favourites.

Side note: this video taught me that Strange actually waves a glowing blue sword when he does mystic sword, and Chun-Li's legs glow pink before the last hit in her Level 3.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
OT but did you guys happen to see the Superman vs Goku "Ultimate Death Battle Analysis" video?

http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/death-battle/death-battle-goku-vs-superman

For those who want to see it. WARNING: "REAL" MATHEMATICAL CALCULATIONS ARE USED!!!!

I brought it because my Youtube page is full of people ranting about it and shit. Here's an example that I found hilarious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SyTjhHRCLU&list=UUPPuyUxBsTXQfU1KxCyPWCw&index=2

^^ This guy is mad salty about the result.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
DeadPhoenix9065 said:
But lucky for Dark Phoenix, she has feathers. Which helps lessen the crap Morrigan throws at her. s.H into TK overdrive M or H to get away from the soul fist behind her. But as usual her health is something that going to keep her from staying away for too long.

These are true anti-Dark Phoenix tech. She can't escape any of these unless human error occurs. (spacing, timing, ect.)
Spider-Man - Hyper grab after transformation
Morrigan - Snag meter before death
Wesker - command grab after transformation
Nemesis - command Grab after transformation
Thor - command grab after transformation
Skrull - command Grab after transformation
Frank - Hyper Grab after transformation
She-Hulk - Hyper Grab after transformation
Tron -Hyper Grab after transformation
Hagger - Hyper Grab after transformation
I think I'm missing a few. I've seen these in action so can confirm.

Everyone else, I've yet to see one. There is a suppose one from Nova, but it can be blocked and leaves him open for punish. A cap one where he finishes Phoenix with a grab. She transforms and he can grab her again. Can break out of it...
So not everyone...yet...
Click to expand...

How many hits is Phoenix activation's explosion? Because couldnt you use Chi with Iron Fist for the invincibility moment and then hyper cancel in lvl 3 or pillar for the kill?

Or just do this with anyone.
 
A

A Pretty Panda

fuckin' called it, man
Dahbomb said:
OT but did you guys happen to see the Superman vs Goku "Ultimate Death Battle Analysis" video?

http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/death-battle/death-battle-goku-vs-superman

For those who want to see it. WARNING: "REAL" MATHEMATICAL CALCULATIONS ARE USED!!!!

I brought it because my Youtube page is full of people ranting about it and shit. Here's an example that I found hilarious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SyTjhHRCLU&list=UUPPuyUxBsTXQfU1KxCyPWCw&index=2

^^ This guy is mad salty about the result.
Click to expand...

Of course Superman would completely fuck up Goku. I don't know why people think otherwise.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
God's Beard said:
Couldn't Goku just blow up the sun then teleport out of the solar system if Supes really needed to die?
Click to expand...
They addressed that in the video. IIRC this was their reasoning:

1) Goku can't really breathe in space or at least can't do it for extended periods of time. Blowing up the sun would of course blow up earth and in turn end up killing Goku. Superman CAN breath in space so he will survive even if the sun is blown up.

2) Goku can't teleport to some place without having the Ki/Kai of someone else. Plus he needs full concentration to do it so he can't teleport while blowing up the sun.

3) Goku isn't smart enough to figure out that Superman is powered up by the sun. He has some sort of mind reading ability but Superman has trained himself to not be influenced by these techniques.


I think what the people are contesting here is that the powers of both characters are at times extracted from non-canon sources like cartoons or one off side movies. Like that scene where Superman is able to absorb multiple supernovas or was able to carry earth.... people contest that it wasn't canon or that Superman had help (in the case of carrying earth). Some people also think that Goku can actually breathe in space and reference the Goku father vs Frieza scene where they are having a stand off in the middle of space essentially.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
A Pretty Panda said:
Of course Superman would completely fuck up Goku. I don't know why people think otherwise.
Click to expand...

Dahbomb said:
They addressed that in the video. IIRC this was their reasoning: 

1) Goku can't really breathe in space or at least can't do it for extended periods of time. Blowing up the sun would of course blow up earth and in turn end up killing Goku. Superman CAN breath in space so he will survive even if the sun is blown up. 

2) Goku can't teleport to some place without having the Ki/Kai of someone else. Plus he needs full concentration to do it so he can't teleport while blowing up the sun. 

3) Goku isn't smart enough to figure out that Superman is powered up by the sun. He has some sort of mind reading ability but Superman has trained himself to not be influenced by these techniques. 

I think what the people are contesting here is that the powers of both characters are at times extracted from non-canon sources like cartoons or one off side movies. Like that scene where Superman is able to absorb multiple supernovas or was able to carry earth.... people contest that it wasn't canon or that Superman had help (in the case of carrying earth). Some people also think that Goku can actually breathe in space and reference the Goku father vs Frieza scene where they are having a stand off in the middle of space essentially.
Click to expand...

God's Beard said:
Superman could breathe in space without the sun? Doesn't he need to eat?
Click to expand...

Superman man top tier for Injustice confirmed?
Lol no. Thats currently The Flash, Green Arrow and likely Cyborg
 
D

DeadPhoenix9065

Member
D

Dahbomb

Member
The only thing with Goku is that he gets stronger with every fight/loss so even if he let's say dies against Superman... someone is going to bring him back via Dragon Balls and he will be way stronger when he returns or probably go Super Saiyan 5. That's the whole Saiyan blood bull shit mechanic he has going his way. Neither character really has any limit to their powers and are really as strong as they need to be to defeat certain enemies or overcome obstacles.
 
P

PartTimeWarrior

Banned
Need some opinions for my new team

She Hulk - Torpedo Assist
Taskmaster - H Arrows Assist
Strider - Vajra Assist

I take advantage of She Hulk's grabs and resets with H arrows and I can lock down annoying characters with Vajra
 
C

Caj814

Member
DeadPhoenix9065 said:
The burst is worth 1 hit. So Iron Fists chi could absorb the blast. Problem is she can block right after.

Now I remember who I missed.
It was X-23's set up with dirtnap. My friend has a vid of her
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3Xm-v9HdQE
Click to expand...

I came up with the setup and posted it on the X-23 boards during Vanilla
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1dlrQmgczQ

another one I had for taskmaster via THC X-factor and his unblockable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BNglmj5-4w

modified it for UMvC3 taking advantage of Dante and Deadpool DHC into THC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsesATGGnhE&feature=player_detailpage#t=236s
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
Goku wouldn't risk Earth just to beat Superman. Hell, he wouldn't even risk Namek until everyone was off the planet, even when Namek was a shithole ready to explode.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Professor Beef said:
Goku wouldn't risk Earth just to beat Superman. Hell, he wouldn't even risk Namek until everyone was off the planet, even when Namek was a shithole ready to explode.
Click to expand...
Neither would Superman. Superman has to limit himself greatly so that his actions don't end up destroying the planet.
 
S

smurfx

get some go again
goku's powers make sense since the more energy he has the faster and more powerful beams he has. superman can just pull any power out of his ass and its just supposed to make sense. well the only power that goku has that doesn't make too much sense is instant transmission.
 
X

XxSlasherMcGirkxX

Member
As a Phoenix Wright main I have to say the notion of buffing him by getting rid of bad evidence is a bad idea. Totally against it. Yea bad evidence sucks but it's part of the character's gimmick. If you get rid of it, it removes the whole investigations aspect and uniqueness of the character. There's not enough variety of good evidence to make it into a 3 specials customized/situational character angle.

Without making a huge changelist (I probably could) Wright needs either needs one of these but NOT both

A: Bigger attack range on normals and slight very slight damage buff on normals only. Wright can't punish shit if the opponent isn't close to him. Even all of his long range special evidence attacks are rather slow with a decent amount of recovery. His normal's are bad. Every character's H attack extends them a great distance and has long range compared to their other normals. Wright's only takes a small step forward with a hit box range the same size as his L and M attacks. To succeed with Wright's normal's you really really need to know the hit boxes. Knowing shit like Standing L&M are decent anti air, Standing H in Investagation hit's on both sides, Crouching L is really fast, Crounching H it's behind and slightly upward. I guess you could say things like this for other characters but it pisses me off when I am in Trial mode and standing right in front of my opponent and do the double H move and the second hit always misses because you practicly have to standing so close to your opponent you are touching them. This is marvel one does not simply get so close to your opponent without them doing something.

B: The better trade IMO but I can see some disagreeing with is double or triple Tournabout time. It's still to easy to out-time Tournabout. Lvl 5 Frank gets to keep his super form. At least Dark Phoenix has low health and needs to burn X-Factor. Wright is stuck with a bad starting form and a timed power up mode. Tournabout Wright alone and without X-Factor is far from impossible to defeat. He still has a hard time opening people up. I always debate whether infinite Tournabout would be better but when thinking about it, I think it's a little unfair. Then again there's infinite lvl5 Frank, DP, Vergil, 80k Spencer, X-Factor 4 Wesker and Zero bullshit. Maybe it would be fair, but I could settle for triple the time.

Also if your gonna remove his invincible assists (which is fine to be honest) at the very least buff him somewhere else.

Edit: Actually when thinking about his old invincible assists, where they really abused that much. I mean you still had to work to get them. They aren't godlike on their on right, only because they were invincible. I understand why they were removed, but it's not like people were bitching in droves saying Wright to too fucking cheap. HK still has no hit stun pendulum assist at the very least they could have made it like that. There you go that's a good buff.
 
shaowebb

shaowebb

Member
You know what this board could use? A monthly challenge.

How about we use a randomizer to generate a list of names and then we have to take the first three names it gives and come up with tech for the team? That or play as them or something here against folks.

I was poking this awhile back to decide who I'd screw around as in Kamen Rider Super Climax Heroes and it kind of gave me the idea.

List generator
roster to cut and paste into randomizer said:
Akuma
Amaterasu
Arthur
Captain America
Chris
Chun-Li
Crimson Viper
Dante
Deadpool
Doctor Doom
Doctor Strange
Dormammu
Felicia
Firebrand
Frank West
Ghost Rider
Haggar
Hawkeye
Hsien-Ko
Hulk
Iron Fist
Iron Man
Jill
M.O.D.O.K.
Magneto
Morrigan
Nemesis
Nova
Phoenix
Phoenix Wright
Rocket Raccoon
Ryu
Sentinel
She-Hulk
Shuma-Gorath
Spencer
Spider-Man
Storm
Strider Hiryu
Super-Skrull
Taskmaster
Thor
Trish
Tron Bonne
Vergil
Viewtiful Joe
Wesker
Wolverine
X-23
Zero
Click to expand...

ZFm5W.jpg


Viper, Dante and Ryu are apparently what I'll do.
 
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