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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!

I like playing as all of the characters in this game casually but not against other people. I feel if im not using my main team I will get totally bodied. We are at a point in this games life were only the dedicated are constantly playing and if I don't bring my best I don't even stand a chance. I don't know the in' and out's with the other characters like I do my team. I would get frustrated to easily against my opponent who knows their characters well. I love messing around in the training room with the other characters, playing arcade mode or in random matches, but against any real person main team all the way. It's kinda funny though every other game I always use a wide variety of characters but this game even with all it's amazing characters and options I stick to one team and dedicate all my time to them. It's so against my normal gaming habits.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
You know what this board could use? A monthly challenge.

How about we use a randomizer to generate a list of names and then we have to take the first three names it gives and come up with tech for the team? That or play as them or something here against folks.

I was poking this awhile back to decide who I'd screw around as in Kamen Rider Super Climax Heroes and it kind of gave me the idea.

List generator


ZFm5W.jpg


Viper, Dante and Ryu are apparently what I'll do.

Rocket Raccoon
Strider Hiryu
Storm

Kay

lol at the bottom of the list
She-Hulk
Hsien-Ko
Shuma-Gorath
 
Frantic, as much as you've proposed the most sane and understandable list for Dante yet, for the love of God, don't take Grapple shenanigans away from me! :lol
Can't you just raw tag out of grapple resets? I thought it wasn't a sure thing.

Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Ultimate Exhibition Vol. 3
Finally done after working on it off and on for some time. Hope you all enjoy
Haha, I like that you put your avatar in the video to prevent stuff from getting stolen now. Did anything come of that?

How many tries did it take to do the Haggar/She-Hulk/Hsien-ko combo? I mean because of Hsien-ko's randomized items.

The Hawkeye combo was really, really cool.

Two Wright level 3s in one combo! So good!

So I take it that you couldn't find any synergy between my characters? :-(

How many hits is Phoenix activation's explosion? Because couldnt you use Chi with Iron Fist for the invincibility moment and then hyper cancel in lvl 3 or pillar for the kill?

Or just do this with anyone.
Phoenix's explosion is +14 on block IIRC and has 0 frames of recovery. So it always has to be something invincible going through the blast to catch her just as the hyper ends. That's why I don't think the Wesker setup actually works.

As a Phoenix Wright main I have to say the notion of buffing him by getting rid of bad evidence is a bad idea. Totally against it. Yea bad evidence sucks but it's part of the character's gimmick. If you get rid of it, it removes the whole investigations aspect and uniqueness of the character. There's not enough variety of good evidence to make it into a 3 specials customized/situational character angle.
They could expand the good evidence to have more effects. I think him having to gather the evidence at all is a big deal. In fact, it just occurred to me that there's another character very similar to Wright in this situation, and that's Dormammu. Dark Spells are basically evidence in terms of how much game time they take to collect. If you consider the Dark Spells Dormammu gets for his time, I think it's fair to say that the value of Wright's evidence is low compared to Dormammu's offerings. In addition, Wright has to land Objection to go into Turnabout, and that's hard as hell with his moveset and mobility options. I have to disagree with you and say that making all of his evidence collection good is very fair to the metagame.

B: The better trade IMO but I can see some disagreeing with is double or triple Tournabout time. It's still to easy to out-time Tournabout. Lvl 5 Frank gets to keep his super form. At least Dark Phoenix has low health and needs to burn X-Factor. Wright is stuck with a bad starting form and a timed power up mode. Tournabout Wright alone and without X-Factor is far from impossible to defeat. He still has a hard time opening people up. I always debate whether infinite Tournabout would be better but when thinking about it, I think it's a little unfair. Then again there's infinite lvl5 Frank, DP, Vergil, 80k Spencer, X-Factor 4 Wesker and Zero bullshit. Maybe it would be fair, but I could settle for triple the time.
I definitely disagree with this thought. Level 5 Frank gets to keep his super form, but he's also nowhere as good as Turnabout Wright. If I had to rank all of the game's metastates, here's how good they are:

1) Dark Phoenix
2) Turnabout Wright
3) Frank West Level 5
4) Dark Spells
5) Levels of Understanding
6) Graces of Hoggoth

Here's how hard they are to obtain (1 is hardest):
1) Dark Phoenix
2) Turnabout Wright
3) Frank West Level 5
4) Levels of Understanding
5) Dark Spells
6) Graces of Hoggoth

So, it seems pretty even to me. Frank West Level 5 doesn't even ToD like Wright does, and Wright gains ridiculous zoning as well as vicious length on his attacks and double-ish movement speed.

I do think that Turnabout could use a little more juice to open people up, though. In our tournament matches I had the easiest time dealing with Turnabout Wright yet because I learned to stop blocking low against you. I think if his c.H hit low in Turnabout the mode would be well-balanced, or if he had some way to mix people up without an assist from mid-screen.

Edit: Actually when thinking about his old invincible assists, where they really abused that much. I mean you still had to work to get them. They aren't godlike on their on right, only because they were invincible. I understand why they were removed, but it's not like people were bitching in droves saying Wright to too fucking cheap. HK still has no hit stun pendulum assist at the very least they could have made it like that. There you go that's a good buff.
Invincible assists are always a bad idea. I'd be cool with a hit of super armor or something, but the big issue to me is that once you get Turnabout, there's no reason to not tag Wright out to the anchor position to abuse the invincible assists and get a godly XF3 comeback opportunity. It basically gives him the assist power of Hsien-ko with the comeback power of Dark Phoenix. That does not sound like a good idea to me.

You know what this board could use? A monthly challenge.

How about we use a randomizer to generate a list of names and then we have to take the first three names it gives and come up with tech for the team? That or play as them or something here against folks.
Chrisis actually started something like this on SRK:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph...elopment-cycle-1-taskmaster-doom-ammy.174215/

Maybe the folks here who are interested in doing this could pool together with SRK?
 

Dahbomb

Member
Morrigan + Missiles won another tournament. Vergil didn't even play in the grand finals.

FChamp basically blocked all the stuff to get as close to 5 meters as possible and then ChrisG ended with a Soul Drain combo. Hilarity.
 
Morrigan + Missiles won another tournament. Vergil didn't even play in the grand finals.
I missed it. :-( I'm used to Marvel being late in the evening.

Anyway, what I'd really like to discuss is why FChamp used Phoenix in that grand finals. We all know that's not a good idea, and FChamp knows it too. So why do it? Was it:
1) To see if he could win with the inferior team?
2) To hype up for a money match?
3) Because he wants to win with what he loves?

It's really hard to say...but I have another suggestion that's wild and part of the Marvel cycle: what if FChamp is trying to convince some folks, some important folks, that Phoenix doesn't cut it right now?

FChamp basically blocked all the stuff to get as close to 5 meters as possible and then ChrisG ended with a Soul Drain combo. Hilarity.
It's even more hair-pulling when you play to get those 5 bars and someone X-Factor glitches the TAC to get a side exchange. Phoenix is a garbage character in Ultimate top play.

Yep that works, but how many people know that at first? ;)
Then it's on par with my Firebrand team. SSS tier against noobs, C tier against good players.
 
So uh, GAF, how do we beat Chris G?

What is the team and who is the player, or does that player exist?

Chris G isn't a God. Champ could have beat him but he made a poor choice with his team. He would have been doing a lot better if he could have blasted Morrigan. It was already a close set with a bad matchup.
 
So uh, GAF, how do we beat Chris G?

What is the team and who is the player, or does that player exist?
You beat ChrisG by picking outside of the metagame.

Captain America / Iron Man, IMHO, shits all over Morrigan/Doom. She will never get an assist call off, she will never get Astral Vision off, and her Soul Fist walls will not protect her.

I'm also still a believer that hardcore rushdown teams stand a good chance against Morrigan, because they can kill her before everything gets started.

Hawkeye/Storm/Doom is a good option because Hawkeye has a better neutral than Morrigan and you have Gimlet -> Ice Storm to rock the Hidden Missiles assist. You could try Dr. Strange in there, too, and it might work well.

Characters with AA grabs like Frank West and She-Hulk are worth looking at, but they're high risk and rely on ChrisG making a mistake.

Really, you need one of two things:
1) A setup that makes it really, really hard for Morrigan to get started (Cap/Unibeam).
2) A setup that can, at any time, destroy Hidden Missiles (point character with fast aerial hyper + second character with beam hyper DHC or similar)

Notice how neither of these things exist at all in the metagame. If Fanatiq would stop scrubbing it out on League of Legends he could be a check to ChrisG. Other than that there's DiosX.

There are better ways to do that then coming in 2nd place at a tournament.
The most important failures are the ones everyone can see.
 

Vice

Member
So uh, GAF, how do we beat Chris G?

What is the team and who is the player, or does that player exist?

Players F.Champ. Magneto, Dorm, Doom

Frutsy with more practice.

Alukard

Noel Brown

Team that has a good chance with the right player.
Nova/x/Strider with Vergil or Hawkeye.
Cap/Nova/Strider
 

Solune

Member
At the risk of sounding whiny...I like fighting games because I like...to fight. Your team is 3/4 of the "this is a single player game now" characters. Spencer zips in and gets his free offense over and over, Hidden Missiles everywhere for free blockstrings and combos, and then Vergil for endless blockstrings with Spiral Swords and Round Trip. There's just so much time spent blocking and waiting to be able to play again. It's the same reason Zero bores the hell out of me. It's nothing against you personally, I just don't find blocking for most of the match until I get hit and then hoping Dark Phoenix can save the day all that enjoyable. It gets to the point of pissing me off with how easy it all is, too. One button offense.

I did stupid things with Phoenix so often just because I'd rather risk dying than block Vergil + Hidden Missiles until X-Factor wears out and then get chipped to death. Ugh my brain.
I don't think you're being whiny, but you won effectively without having to turn Phoenix and getting Christmas Gifts here and there. I mean sure I'll get in sometime, but I recall you having a conversation with God's Beard about having to do more cheap shit. So I went in with that plan because I knew you'd be playing Dorm point where I can exploit that. If we were going by win ratio, it went about 6:4 in your favor so that's not bad at all.

Also recall when you were playing X/Dorm/Morg, it puts the opponent in same position provided the other character has no answers to Dorm (aka Doom). So I understand where you're coming from. You have to be able to take it as well as dish it out.
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 Ultimate Exhibition Vol. 3
Finally done after working on it off and on for some time. Hope you all enjoy
Great stuff!
I missed it. :-( I'm used to Marvel being late in the evening.

Anyway, what I'd really like to discuss is why FChamp used Phoenix in that grand finals. We all know that's not a good idea, and FChamp knows it too. So why do it? Was it:
1) To see if he could win with the inferior team?
2) To hype up for a money match?
3) Because he wants to win with what he loves?

I think part of it is because he wanted to prove that he won because he's a better player and it was the runback from EVO. Recall Fchamp had won against Chris G because Chris G made a rawtag error and cost him the game.

I don't agree with his decision to go Phoenix but, I at least think that was part of his mentality for choosing her.
 

smurfx

get some go again
until modok actually starts beating chris g then i will consider him a counter pick character. sure he has some tools to escape the bullshit but he still needs to beat morrigan and the other characters in chris g's team to win. frutsy got his ass handed to him by chris g's 2nd tier team so i won't consider him a threat at all.
 

Dahbomb

Member
MODOK is not a counter pick character to Morrigan.

Having good tools to fight a match up =/= counter pick

People consider anything that has a chance against MorriDoom to be a counter. ROFL.
 
MODOK is not a counter pick character to Morrigan.

Having good tools to fight a match up =/= counter pick

People consider anything that has a chance against MorriDoom to be a counter. ROFL.

I can avoid the wall of Soul Fists with VJoe by Super Triple Jumping and then doing Air Joe. VJoe is a counterpick obviously!
 
I don't think you're being whiny, but you won effectively without having to turn Phoenix and getting Christmas Gifts here and there. I mean sure I'll get in sometime, but I recall you having a conversation with God's Beard about having to do more cheap shit. So I went in with that plan because I knew you'd be playing Dorm point where I can exploit that. If we were going by win ratio, it went about 6:4 in your favor so that's not bad at all.

Also recall when you were playing X/Dorm/Morg, it puts the opponent in same position provided the other character has no answers to Dorm (aka Doom). So I understand where you're coming from. You have to be able to take it as well as dish it out.
There are a handful of characters that don't have an answer to Dormammu's Stalking Flare, and all characters have an answer if you have a projectile assist. It doesn't make any sense to compare a team that gives easy full screen control with ease to a bad matchup between two characters, and someone's decision to anchor that character in a bad matchup to get as much abuse out of the assist as possible. It's not any different from when people anchor Hsien-ko or Haggar to me - you know what you're getting yourself into.

One of the reasons I stopped using X/Dormammu/Morrigan is there are very, very few characters the Stalking Flare stuff is actually effective against. It just wasn't cutting it except against people who have poor team construction. You made a wise choice and stopped playing Doom without an assist to back him up, and now it's no longer a problem. Also, your Doom is vastly improved from before. You really were not good with him in our earlier matches, and while you're still not great with him (it doesn't seem like you can bunny hop at all), you've risen above being bad with him.

I won as many matches as I did, respectfully, because you are not good at handling Phoenix or Dark Phoenix. I think if I gave you a month and you mastered the Vergil setups + XFC TAC glitches, I would win maybe a fifth of the matches thanks to Dormammu OCVing sometimes.

Hidden Missiles is shit for the metagame. I dropped it because it was so good it made the game boring for me. The two best Marvel players in the world use the assist. It's really hard to take your comparison of a bad matchup created by poor team construction to the assist that wins every major tournament.

Edit: And remember that I'm not complaining about you winning. I'm complaining about the team being fucking boring to face because I spend so much time in blockstun. Not once did I complain about the win/loss record between us, so I don't even know why you're bringing it up. If I won 20-0 it would still be fucking boring, just like Zero is.

I think part of it is because he wanted to prove that he won because he's a better player and it was the runback from EVO. Recall Fchamp had won against Chris G because Chris G made a rawtag error and cost him the game.

I don't agree with his decision to go Phoenix but, I at least think that was part of his mentality for choosing her.
Good thought.

What's more believable:

"Hey guys I used the Phoenix team at Apex and got 2nd place to ChrisG. I guess Phoenix doesn't work in this game!"

or

"Guys, I went 0-2 at Apex using Phoenix. I guess she doesn't work in this game!"
Undoubtedly the former.
 
I missed it. :-( I'm used to Marvel being late in the evening.

Anyway, what I'd really like to discuss is why FChamp used Phoenix in that grand finals. We all know that's not a good idea, and FChamp knows it too. So why do it? Was it:
1) To see if he could win with the inferior team?
2) To hype up for a money match?
3) Because he wants to win with what he loves?
I think it may be all three. Champ likes using Phoenix. He's said it on steam multiple times.
Nothing gets more hype then seeing Phoenix since she still leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

It's really hard to say...but I have another suggestion that's wild and part of the Marvel cycle: what if FChamp is trying to convince some folks, some important folks, that Phoenix doesn't cut it right now?
I hope they'd see she needs some help. She isn't even a shadow of her former self. At least a shadow would scare...
It's even more hair-pulling when you play to get those 5 bars and someone X-Factor glitches the TAC to get a side exchange. Phoenix is a garbage character in Ultimate top play.
I'd say yes but then I feel sad...


I came up with the setup and posted it on the X-23 boards during Vanilla
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1dlrQmgczQ

another one I had for taskmaster via THC X-factor and his unblockable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BNglmj5-4w

modified it for UMvC3 taking advantage of Dante and Deadpool DHC into THC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsesATGGnhE&feature=player_detailpage#t=236s

Task needs a lot of meter for this to work and XF? Risky but it pays off so well. And flashy too. I'm actually happy to see something like this then something like with X-23 or Spider-Man's.
Do you have anymore with similar setups with other teams?
 
I think it may be all three. Champ likes using Phoenix. He's said it on steam multiple times.
Nothing gets more hype then seeing Phoenix since she still leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
It's amazing how many people are still angry about Phoenix, like she's a good character choice or something.

I hope they'd see she needs some help. She isn't even a shadow of her former self. At least a shadow would scare...
I'd say yes but then I feel sad...
Hah! Really, I'd be happy if they just fixed the TAC glitches. That's pure bullshit. Ideally, TACs are made non-random and can never steal meter, but the purest bullshit being removed would please me.

Why? He went 3-2 with the best player in the world with that team. How in the world would that convince anyone that Phoenix doesn't work?
So people can see the struggle. He needs to try, you know. No one is convinced by sandbagging. Hell, people already try to claim good players are sandbagging when they legitimately lose.

a year into this game and i'm pretty convinced its over.

none of the best players care of like about the game enough to develop anything new, and complete ass played like JRosa and picking up morridoom and beating people far better than him with it.
Metagames take time to shift. It can take a while before someone says "fuck this, I'm counterpicking". Or more accurately, as I think the case is here, to realize that counterpicks exist.
 

mr. puppy

Banned
a year into this game and i'm pretty convinced its over.

none of the best players care of like about the game enough to develop anything new, and complete ass played like JRosa and picking up morridoom and beating people far better than him with it.
 
What about Marlin constantly putting out new hitconfirms, the recent shift towards Harmonizer teams and Ray Ray/Alioune putting out newly optimized BnBs all the time?
 

mr. puppy

Banned
You mean like Champ developing new teams every week and Yipes using a new team at every tournament?

New teams? He plays 4 characters and picks the worst order of them and fucking rocks against morridoom. Yipes playing Wesker and losing is not a good example of this either, everybody can tell you Wesker is not going to bring something new to the table.
 

Azure J

Member
Not to mention trends in character bandwagons (as much as people hate bandwagoners) and stuff like the SRK team tech thread. Sorry but that was just a really ignorant comment.

At the same time, if it can get us another update with some characters... :D
 

mr. puppy

Banned
What about Marlin constantly putting out new hitconfirms, the recent shift towards Harmonizer teams and Ray Ray/Alioune putting out newly optimized BnBs all the time?

Marlin is not playing this game for 3 months and hasn't figured out that holding forwards with Viper is a horrible idea, Rayray is still using Ryu/Sentinel for some stupid reason, and I don't have any idea what Alioune is thinking with battery/sink/sink as a meter team.
 

Vice

Member
Marlin is not playing this game for 3 months and hasn't figured out that holding forwards with Viper is a horrible idea, Rayray is still using Ryu/Sentinel for some stupid reason, and I don't have any idea what Alioune is thinking with battery/sink/sink as a meter team.

Marlin, RayRay and Alioune get great results with what they play though. Results matter more than theory.
 
Marlin is not playing this game for 3 months and hasn't figured out that holding forwards with Viper is a horrible idea, Rayray is still using Ryu/Sentinel for some stupid reason, and I don't have any idea what Alioune is thinking with battery/sink/sink as a meter team.

Man you just don't play very much attention to this game, then.
 

shaowebb

Member
That's 2/3rds a top tier team.
I know its like even the randomizer wants me to stop playing low tier because other than Ryu I don't play any of these. Most I've done is maybe poke Viper or Dante in the closing days of Vanilla for a few hours.

Its a pretty fun thing to screw around with the randomizer. I'll start playing some Viper/Ryu/Dante in that order and see what I can do. I've never had options before. Vanilla Ryu and Sentinel didn't have a whole lot except armor, combo extensions and the light tatsu putting in the work. This team actually has a bunch of stuff it could do given Viper and Dante setups. I could probably use Seismo assist to help Ryu too. Heck this team has got six OTG's that I can think of.

Rocket Raccoon
Strider Hiryu
Storm

Kay

lol at the bottom of the list
She-Hulk
Hsien-Ko
Shuma-Gorath

Out of curiosity my rerolls were:
Ghost Rider
Jill
Iron Fist


followed by ...
Phoenix Wright
She Hulk
Zero


and then...
Iron Fist
Crimson Viper
Phoenix


LOL at the Iron Fist reoccurrences. Oh well I guess I'll be playing some viper/ryu/dante now for awhile to see what I can get.

LINK TO THE RANDOMIZED TEAM POST IF YOU WANT TO PARTICIPATE
 

Vice

Member
really, b/c rayray got destroyed today and has been not playing well for awhile

RayRay lost to Yipes today correct? The player who is widely considered to be the third best Marvel player at the moment in a 3-2 set. That isn't getting destroyed.
 

Solune

Member
I don't think it's hard to understand that Rayray plays Ryu because he likes to play Ryu. Marvel minions are so paradoxical it hurts my brain.

People putting out anti-whatever tech all the time, and people telling others to pick such and such team to counter certain matchups. Then you have people telling other people, play your shit, don't counterpick, what's going on here.

You have to come to a crossroad between picking a team that can win, and a team that you love to play. I play Chris. He's the definiition of this game's mid tier, as Chrisis slotted him into. No airdash, no left right mixup, no high low mixup, no invincible level 1 hyper, no legitimate safe blockstring (even with the prone tech). You will bust your balls off to earn that win and frankly it's frustrating to salt inducing at times. But when you win, you earned it with hard cold blood and sweat no bullshit attached.
 

shaowebb

Member
... But when you win, you earned it with hard cold blood and sweat no bullshit attached.

And now you know why my in Vanilla I played Ryu and what its like to be the guy who played nothing but Iron Fist in this game. I played it raw and fair. No gimmicks, just me. Lost more than I won but what I won didn't feel fraudulent or cheap due to ridiculous shenanigans because I had none to even try for.

To hell with it though. I've proven enough to myself that I can learn combos and footsies and hold out decent enough with my guy. Im all for just screwing around now and seeing how the other half lives with cheesey shit at my disposal.
 

mr. puppy

Banned
I don't think it's hard to understand that Rayray plays Ryu because he likes to play Ryu. Marvel minions are so paradoxical it hurts my brain.

People putting out anti-whatever tech all the time, and people telling others to pick such and such team to counter certain matchups. Then you have people telling other people, play your shit, don't counterpick, what's going on here.

You have to come to a crossroad between picking a team that can win, and a team that you love to play. I play Chris. He's the definiition of this game's mid tier, as Chrisis slotted him into. No airdash, no left right mixup, no high low mixup, no invincible level 1 hyper, no legitimate safe blockstring (even with the prone tech). You will bust your balls off to earn that win and frankly it's frustrating to salt inducing at times. But when you win, you earned it with hard cold blood and sweat no bullshit attached.

thats not my problem with the game and the way people are handling it.

everybody is bitching about morridoom. nobody is adapting in the slightest to morridoom. and the reason why is because the best players really dont give a damn about this game, its just the hot shit at the moment with the most money it b/c Capcom completely fucked up SFxT.

rayray,marlin,justin,champ are all playing characters and teams that were good during Evo. ChrisG is dropping characters left and right and adding new members to his team and counter-picking characters and then ends up with Morridoom/Vergil and is going to be winning with that team for a long ass time. Vergil didn't even do anything in the finals and it wasn't even needed.
 

Azure J

Member
I don't think it's hard to understand that Rayray plays Ryu because he likes to play Ryu. Marvel minions are so paradoxical it hurts my brain. [...]

thats not my problem with the game and the way people are handling it.
[...]

I agree with both of these guys. I don't even know what to say or add, but it's just weird how I can agree with both of these points.

In my opinion, this game you need to have the team you enjoy, the team designed to win and the team you win and enjoy playing with. Experimenting with all three aspects leads you to trying out more combinations and results in more experience implementing things with knowledge of what one character does and how it meshes with the other character's gameplan.
 
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