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[MiniBossBattle]

So do I treat Tron like a bootleg Nova (air dash H?) with a beam assist and go for an overhead or low or command throw? Any good teammate for her? I tried Firebrand/Tron(what assist?)/Doom beam or Sent. Its good but Tron is now more of a point character now, right?

 

[Professor Beef]

I never thought of using L3/R3 for X-Factor before. Hmmm...

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I like to fuck about and click in the sticks during supers and stuff, that wouldn't work for me. I hould use L2 and X for easy xfc since I'll get pushblock and xfactor the other way I do it.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

I like to fuck about and click in the sticks during supers and stuff, that wouldn't work for me. I hould use L2 and X for easy xfc since I'll get pushblock and xfactor the other way I do it.

But shouldn't you be mashing buttons during supers, for like that extra damage?

 

[Professor Beef]

But shouldn't you be mashing buttons during supers, for like that extra damage?

Mashing supers should've never been put into the game in the first place.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

I meant during the start up of supers etc.

I need to be pressing some sort of button, it's marvel

 

[Karsticles]

Some Arthur combos that shocked my pants off (they're back on now):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l1QpqE_kHE

Mashing supers should've never been put into the game in the first place.

Indeed.

 

[Nert]

Thank you for sharing that Arthur video. I badly need to steal that tech.

 

[Azure J]

So a colossal amount of spoilers have come out for Iron Man 3 (Spoilers: its going to be incredible) Check the MCU thread if your interested. Of note to this thread:

Spoiler

>>46665139
MARK XLII - X01
PARTICLE RADIATION CANNON ATTACHMENT
Unable to deal with FIREPOWER's fiery attacks, TONY STARK designs the PARTICLE RADIATION CANNON to absorb and channel TAGGERT's heat against him.

PROTON CANNONNNNNNN!!!

Hopefully not that bleeding edge POS.

Superior. Fucking. Tech.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Is there any real use for the L+M+H macro, or is M+H good enough for pushblocking and dashing?

LMH gives you throw option selects plus LM versions of hypers that change depending on what 2 buttons you use to activate them (e.g. Taskmaster's horizontal arrows).

 

[onionfrog]

Some Arthur combos that shocked my pants off (they're back on now):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l1QpqE_kHE

Oh man, these are good! I didn't know arthur could combo solo off an air throw.
I'm going to have to watch this several more times and try some of these combos out.
Very impressive, it just goes to show how unexplored some characters are in this game.

 

[SolarKnight]

So, a guy here is telling me that I should try doing a Nova/Strider/Rocket team. What do you guys think of that?

 

[biosnake20]

New tier lists time.

FChamp's tier list

RayRay's tier list

RayRay also has a twitch channel now. http://www.twitch.tv/rayray19wun

Discuss.

 

[enzo_gt]

I wonder if it would be possible to make some sort of connected-line model where people can define lengths between characters that show how well they work together. Y'know, something that might actually be informative about how well characters go together.

A density of characters in an area would even suggest potential teams. Though I understand how difficult and hard to read it may be with the number of characters we have, and the time it would take to make, but I think it would be cool to see an infograph of the sort.

 

[Zissou]

So, a guy here is telling me that I should try doing a Nova/Strider/Rocket team. What do you guys think of that?

I'm skeptical- What does RR provide for Strider? You need your wall bounce so I'm assuming RR is on spitfire assist, no? Vajra is a good for Raccoon though, given how limited his anti-air and air conversion options are though. RR/Doom/Strider or something like that would probably be good.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Mashing supers should've never been put into the game in the first place.

So true. That's the one thing I liked about vanilla.

 

[SolarKnight]

I'm skeptical- What does RR provide for Strider? You need your wall bounce so I'm assuming RR is on spitfire assist, no? Vajra is a good for Raccoon though, given how limited his anti-air and air conversion options are though. RR/Doom/Strider or something like that would probably be good.

Well, he mostly just joined the 3 characters that usually do the most work on certain teams of mine. The Nova/Strider synergy has proved itself already before at least, and I've annoyed the guys here quite a bit with Strider/Rocket too. Still, that's with Spitfire and I'm assuming he means Log Trap assist here since that's also something that's worked well in the Nova/Frank/Rocket team. Honestly, I don't even use a wallbounce in my BnBs outside of Rocket's so not sure what I could potentially miss.

 

[Dahbomb]

Vergil best character in the game?

Yeeeaaaa....... NOPE!

FChamp's tier list isn't even that real, later on he moved up Wesker to where he belongs right below the top 10.

 

[Karsticles]

Vergil anchor is a better Dark Phoenix for less effort.

 

[Marz]

Vergil best character in the game?

Yeeeaaaa....... NOPE!

FChamp's tier list isn't even that real, later on he moved up Wesker to where he belongs right below the top 10.

Who is then?

 

[enzo_gt]

Vergil anchor is a better Dark Phoenix for less effort.

And much less risk.

DP and Frank will never be anywhere close to the top as long as they have that risk and lack of security.

 

[Zissou]

Well, he mostly just joined the 3 characters that usually do the most work on certain teams of mine. The Nova/Strider synergy has proved itself already before at least, and I've annoyed the guys here quite a bit with Strider/Rocket too. Still, that's with Spitfire and I'm assuming he means Log Trap assist here since that's also something that's worked well in the Nova/Frank/Rocket team. Honestly, I don't even use a wallbounce in my BnBs outside of Rocket's so not sure what I could potentially miss.

You don't use wall bounce in your strider bnbs?

 

[SolarKnight]

Considering my Strider BnBs are too simple/suck? No, I don't =.=;

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Who is then?

Zero.

Nah I'd still say Vergil.

 

[Frantic]

I still want to know why people put Spencer in top 5.

 

[Professor Beef]

I still want to know why people put Spencer in top 5.

Raw damage.

 

[Karsticles]

I still want to know why people put Spencer in top 5.

Tell me something about Spencer that makes him not top 5 material. Is it that he does massive damage without using meter? Is it that he gets in for free with frame advantage? Mindless crossups? A standing overhead? Command grabs? High health? One of the best hypers in the game, which leads to full combos on hit? The 1F reversal? The best reset assist in the game?

 

[Zissou]

I still want to know why people put Spencer in top 5.

I think it's results vs theory fighter tiering. Characters like Nova and Spencer aren't top theory tier, but they are really strong and are so easy to use even a mediocre goku wannabe player can place at evo using them.

 

[Dahbomb]

Putting your marbles on an anchor character who has garbage incoming options is a poor strat that will be exploited by better players. Vergil can't survive a single combo (like Phoenix sitting on 5 bar can) and him unassisted and with low meter allows just about any character to beat him.

The best in the game is one that can win you matches without any prior resources and that is and always will be Zero. Vergil can easily be disrupted by a XF guard cancel but Zero laughs at that strat.

The way Schmidt was playing against Vergil is how people should be playing against him. He snapped in Dark Vergil after killing Wolverine and Vergil was helpless against the mix up, in more than 60% of that matches Vergil was not a factor. The match boiled down to the Wolverine Magneto match up.

Of course Vergil's strength is in that second slot because you are not putting all your marbles in one place and you are more flexible with your resource use and Vergil play. You get his assist, safe DHC, Spiral Swords DHC for damage and LVL2XF Vergil with a single assist. That is his most optimum placing in a team but he is competing with Doom in that slot usually (TAC infinite instead of SS DHC). Point Vergil is not as strong as point Zero, Viper, Wolverine, Magneto which is why no one important uses him at that slot (too many weaknesses as a point). To me the best character in the game needs to decide the game as a point character... not be a "back up" character down the order for support/anchor purposes. The point position in Marvel is the most coveted position in the game, you build your team around your point usually rarely around your anchor/level up character. If support position was more important then Doom would be the best character in the game because Hidden Missiles are broke and his TAC infinites are outrageous. Instead I give more precedence to point strength and in that Zero is the best character in the game.

Top 4 in the game is Zero, Viper, Magneto, Vergil. After that is debatable but I like Dante, Strider, Dormammu, Spencer, Doom, Wolverine, Nova, Ammy, Morrigan plus a few other characters after those 4. I think picking 2 characters form the top 4 and one support character from the next tier is essentially an automatic top tier team. It's super top tier if that support character ends up being Doom which is why I feel Doom is top 5 material. So essentially 2 characters from top 5 and some other character from the next list or better yet.... make a 3 man team out of the top 5 for full on top tier.

 

[Karsticles]

Putting your marbles on an anchor character who has garbage incoming options is a poor strat that will be exploited by better players. Vergil can't survive a single combo (like Phoenix sitting on 5 bar can) and him unassisted and with low meter allows just about any character to beat him.

The best in the game is one that can win you matches without any prior resources and that is and always will be Zero. Vergil can easily be disrupted by a XF guard cancel but Zero laughs at that strat.

The way Schmidt was playing against Vergil is how people should be playing against him. He snapped in Dark Vergil after killing Wolverine and Vergil was helpless against the mix up, in more than 60% of that matches Vergil was not a factor. The match boiled down to the Wolverine Magneto match up.

Of course Vergil's strength is in that second slot because you are not putting all your marbles in one place and you are more flexible with your resource use and Vergil play. You get his assist, safe DHC, Spiral Swords DHC for damage and LVL2XF Vergil with a single assist. That is his most optimum placing in a team but he is competing with Doom in that slot usually (TAC infinite instead of SS DHC). Point Vergil is not as strong as point Zero, Viper, Wolverine which is why no one important uses him at

It's nigh impossible to die to the incoming mix-up if you're willing to burn X-Factor on your character. And you need to pressure Vergil before he touches the ground or he'll Dimension Slash. PR Balrog was still #2 at Winter Brawl, you know.

Best character in the game, and if "you have to kill him before he touches the ground" is your opposing argument, I declare myself the victor. Phoenix has to deal with incoming mix-ups when she gets snapped in too, you know. Except Vergil doesn't need 5 bars to kill a team as an anchor. He just needs two at most.

 

[Dahbomb]

It's nigh impossible to die to the incoming mix-up if you're willing to burn X-Factor on your character. And you need to pressure Vergil before he touches the ground or he'll Dimension Slash. PR Balrog was still #2 at Winter Brawl, you know.

Best character in the game, and if "you have to kill him before he touches the ground" is your opposing argument, I declare myself the victor.

You can kill him after he touches the ground as well. It's very easy to pressure him not to do Dimension Slash on incoming (which by the way is super unsafe and you need to immediately XF to make it safe thus wasting it) by doing a meaty j.H with Magneto plus assist (which is what Schmidt was doing to shutdown ANY Vergil option on incoming and he was always biting the dust). If you are putting all your marbles in Vergil XFLVL3 and if he gets snapped in before losing any character... you have already lost the game because if you waste XFLVL1 to save Vergil you are at a great disadvantage already.

No one actually wastes an early XF to save Vergil, that is dumb and makes you lose games. You think PRRog burnt XF when ChrisG snapped his Vergil in? No he took the loss or he tried to play a shitty neutral game against MorriDoom and died then.

 

[Zissou]

In situations where I wasn't able to snap/deal with Vergil early, I find myself going for doom/dante/strider THC on Vergil incoming. He can't press any buttons or he loses, and if he blocks he has to eat mix-ups to earn the right to play. It's worked pretty well up until this point. Fuck dark Vergil. Also, Vergil has a terrible bland voice that makes him sound like a 17 year old basement dweller who thinks he's neo from the matrix.

 

[Karsticles]

You can kill him after he touches the ground as well. It's very easy to pressure him not to do Dimension Slash on incoming (which by the way is super unsafe and you need to immediately XF to make it safe thus wasting it) by doing a meaty j.H with Magneto plus assist (which is what Schmidt was doing to shutdown ANY Vergil option on incoming and he was always biting the dust). If you are putting all your marbles in Vergil XFLVL3 and if he gets snapped in before losing any character... you have already lost the game because if you waste XFLVL1 to save Vergil you are at a great disadvantage already.

No one actually wastes an early XF to save Vergil, that is dumb and makes you lose games. You think PRRog burnt XF when ChrisG snapped his Vergil in? No he took the loss or he tried to play a shitty neutral game against MorriDoom and died then.

No one wastes an early X-Factor to save Phoenix, either. Hell, no one wastes XF1 to save any character in this game unless they're a one-character player. It's just not a smart thing to do. That's not a weakness particular to Vergil. All of your top 5 characters can get snapped in and killed. Good incoming mix-ups don't let you just air dash up and out of the way!

And of course you XFC Dimension Slash.

In situations where I wasn't able to snap/deal with Vergil early, I find myself going for doom/dante/strider THC on Vergil incoming. He can't press any buttons or he loses, and if he blocks he has to eat mix-ups to earn the right to play. It's worked pretty well up until this point. Fuck dark Vergil. Also, Vergil has a terrible bland voice that makes him sound like a 17 year old basement dweller who thinks he's neo from the matrix.

I like his voice.

Really? Something about the way he says, "foolishness dante, foolishness!" is absolutely grating to me-compounded by the fact that hearing it means I also just lost to extreme derp.

Dante is the most annoying character in the game. Terrible lines, false bravado.

'Top 5 Material' does not mean top 5, though. There are plenty of candidates for Top 5, and I just can't see Spencer being better than some of them. I won't deny he's got strong tools, but I'd put him around number 8 on a top ten, personally.

And on the subject of Vergil, XFC Dimension Slash on incoming means nothing to me since I've got Acid Rain/Crystal/Million Carats/Jam Session, Peekaboo/Hopscotch, or Formation A2/C for him to run right into. If they decide to Dimension Slash on incoming, they just signed their death warrant.

You said you want to know why people put him in the top 5. If he's top 5 material to you, then it should be easy to understand why people put him in the top 5.

 

[Zissou]

Really? Something about the way he says, "foolishness dante, foolishness!" is absolutely grating to me-compounded by the fact that hearing it means I also just lost to extreme derp.

 

[Frantic]

Tell me something about Spencer that makes him not top 5 material. Is it that he does massive damage without using meter? Is it that he gets in for free with frame advantage? Mindless crossups? A standing overhead? Command grabs? High health? One of the best hypers in the game, which leads to full combos on hit? The 1F reversal? The best reset assist in the game?

'Top 5 Material' does not mean top 5, though. There are plenty of candidates for Top 5, and I just can't see Spencer being better than some of them. I won't deny he's got strong tools, but I'd put him around number 8 on a top ten, personally.

And on the subject of Vergil, XFC Dimension Slash on incoming means nothing to me since I've got Acid Rain/Crystal/Million Carats/Jam Session, Peekaboo/Hopscotch, or Formation A2/C for him to run right into. If they decide to Dimension Slash on incoming, they just signed their death warrant.

 

[racketpunch]

'Top 5 Material' does not mean top 5, though. There are plenty of candidates for Top 5, and I just can't see Spencer being better than some of them. I won't deny he's got strong tools, but I'd put him around number 8 on a top ten, personally.

Just curious

Who would your top 5 be? I have Spencer sitting nice and pretty in the the top 5.

 

[Professor Beef]

Just curious

Who would your top 5 be? I have Spencer sitting nice and pretty in the the top 5.

Dante and 4 other moves.

 

[Frantic]

Just curious

Who would your top 5 be? I have Spencer sitting nice and pretty in the the top 5.

Zero, Viper, Vergil, Magneto, Dante would be top 5, probably in that order though it sometimes changes. Beyond that, it gets trickier for me to tier. I tend to invest heavily on 'theory', so it can get skewed sometimes.

But I do have a high opinion of Spencer. Back in vanilla, he was #8 for me... and he's stayed there in Ultimate. They added new top tiers, and the previous top tiers weren't nerfed enough to boost him higher though. *shrug*

 

[Dahbomb]

All of your top 5 characters can get snapped in and killed.

But 3 of my top 5 characters are point characters so the snap back example doesn't work on them and all of them have better escapes than Vergil. You can't snap in Zero because he starts as a point character, which is why I value point strength over anchor/support strength. Anchor/support characters can be killed via Happy Birthdays/hyper punishes or snap backs so the game plan of the point character becomes much more vital to the match.

Zero, Viper, Vergil, Magneto, Dante would be top 5, probably in that order though it sometimes changes. Beyond that, it gets trickier for me to tier. I tend to invest heavily on 'theory', so it can get skewed sometimes.

Yeah I feel the same way although my top 5 usually swaps between Doom and Dante a lot. Characters like Spencer/Wolverine are top 5 material but the main reason I don't place them straight up in top 5 because they lose to a much lower tier character like Haggar or Hulk since their game plan is so one dimensional.

I also think Magneto is better than Viper and would swap their positions in fact. Like Viper's bad match ups are getting to her now where as Magneto seemingly appears to be getting better and better. The way Schmidt was using his Magneto, Rog couldn't touch him consistently with Doom or Vergil... he only got lucky with derp Wolverine tactics. Although characters that do well against Magneto in tournaments (like Wolverine) get trounced by Viper plus that unblockable/EX Seismo.

Then you add in Morrigan into the mix and she becomes insanely hard to properly rate. I still say that Morrigan in the meta is 90% ChrisG's skill and Hidden Missiles at work hence why I can't put her at top 5 yet.

 

[racketpunch]

Zero, Viper, Vergil, Magneto, Dante would be top 5, probably in that order though it sometimes changes. Beyond that, it gets trickier for me to tier. I tend to invest heavily on 'theory', so it can get skewed sometimes.

But I do have a high opinion of Spencer. Back in vanilla, he was #8 for me... and he's stayed there in Ultimate. They added new top tiers, and the previous top tiers weren't nerfed enough to boost him higher though. *shrug*

I can't argue with that list since it's pretty legit. Top 5 is just really hard to decide. In no order I would say Zero, Magneto, Vergil Spencer, and Doom. To me, the only clear winner would be Vergil sitting at the very top.

 

[Dahbomb]

In both those tier lists, Chris was rated better than Taskmaster.....

 

[Bizazedo]

In both those tier lists, Chris was rated better than Taskmaster.....

Very good recent posts, by the way, Dahbomb. Our little debate about Zero I thought you were reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally reaching and using too much theorycraft, but these recent posts feel more grounded in actual results and situations.

I post that because it brings me to Taskmaster. I really feel he's under used, but I am stuck mostly on theory / the fact that I think he's fantastic versus Zero to really properly communicate why right now.

That and I'm exhausted.

(Anyone around on 360?).

 

[Nert]

So do I treat Tron like a bootleg Nova (air dash H?) with a beam assist and go for an overhead or low or command throw? Any good teammate for her? I tried Firebrand/Tron(what assist?)/Doom beam or Sent. Its good but Tron is now more of a point character now, right?

There are a few setups that work well for Tron. As you mentioned, Tron doesn't really make sense as anything but a point character in UMvC3; her assists are poor and it can be difficult to DHC into her.

Tron/Frank/Dante is probably the best Tron team when played right. If you have two bars, Lunch Rush into Survival Techniques provides a quick level 4 or 5 for Frank with Jam Session backing him up. Shopping Cart assist is helpful as always and it can be used in a lot of derpy air dash H crossups. Dante isn't the easiest comback character to use, but

Tron is also a decent battery if you want to use more meter dependent characters in the 2nd and 3rd slots. I run Tron/Super Skrull/Arthur and I end up in a pretty good situation even if Tron does nothing but soak up damage (infernos after every combo with Skrull!). A horizontal projectile or beam assist is definitely nice to have, as they can cover random drills to let her get across the screen safely and allow her to annoy rushdown characters with beacon bombs (leading to full combos if they connect).

One other approach that I can think of would be something like Abegen's team (Tron/Thor/She-Hulk). Beacon bomb can be used for some interesting grab and reset setups that characters with command grabs can take advantage of. Now that I type that out, I guess that Skrull and level three Frank would work, too. This video explains it better than I could.

A couple of random asides about Tron:

• Her air medium has ridiculous range and is often her best way to swat an opponent out of the sky.

• Beacon bomb H is a wonderful tool against the DIVE KICK characters, especially if they haven't fought many Trons before.

• If you don't need to use Tron as a battery, her damage output can be incredible. It's not at all difficult to end combos with one or two King Servbots and then a Lunch Rush on top of that. You can reliably touch of death the 800k crew with optimized combos.

 

[Dahbomb]

I think Task is way better than Chris and one of the characters with the least bad match ups in the game.

 

[Bizazedo]

I think Task is way better than Chris and one of the characters with the least bad match ups in the game.

Yeah, really good way to put it and is in words what I was feeling, thank you!

 

[Nert]

I'm skeptical of any tier list that doesn't have Doctor Doom in at least the top three. He is on basically everyone's team at this point and likely has more tournament wins and high placements than anyone else. Even in theorycraft land, what top tier teams aren't made better by Hidden Missiles or Plasma Beam?

 

[Zissou]

I'm skeptical of anybody who tiers individual characters in marvel.

 

[Dahbomb]

I'm skeptical of any tier list that doesn't have Doctor Doom in at least the top three. He is on basically everyone's team at this point and likely has more tournament wins and high placements than anyone else. Even in theorycraft land, what top tier teams aren't made better by Hidden Missiles or Plasma Beam?

Thing is that you can't just win games with an assist you need top point characters. Not every character can exploit Doom the same way. If Doom was as good as Dante on point he would be top 5 FREE and potentially top 3 for being the ultimate package. Right now he has too many bad match ups to be among top 3. No top 3 character should be ROFL stomped by a character like Hawkeye.

 

[Karsticles]

I'm skeptical of anybody who tiers individual characters in marvel.

Damn straight.

 

[Nert]

Thing is that you can't just win games with an assist you need top point characters. Not every character can exploit Doom the same way. If Doom was as good as Dante on point he would be top 5 FREE and potentially top 3 for being the ultimate package. Right now he has too many bad match ups to be among top 3. No top 3 character should be ROFL stomped by a character like Hawkeye.

Unless we're talking about 1v1 matchups only, tier lists only make sense when you consider team structures. Doom is far and away the best support character, with his ridiculous TAC combos, general damage output and extraordinary assists. The amount of top players that use him is staggering (anyone using Morridoom, FChamp, Marlinpie, PR Rog, etc.). Zero is better with Doom, Vergil is better with Doom, Morrigan almost requires Doom, Spencer is better with Doom, Magneto is better with Doom, Dormammu is better with Doom...