-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Fuck Hulk/Sentinel. Scrubbiest god damn thing in this game. Even winning against it is enraging.
Huh, I should test if Taskmaster can XFC into Aegis Counter in the middle of Shell Kick. Pretty sure he has ways to follow it up with assists, so there's something.
Unless Missiles are well on their way, you could always snap her out after the super. Additionally, someone like Taskmaster can just SHIELD SKILLZ his way out of the way of missiles(unless they're already hitting, in which case he's screwed).
Huh, I should test if Taskmaster can XFC into Aegis Counter in the middle of Shell Kick. Pretty sure he has ways to follow it up with assists, so there's something.
Professor Beef
Banned
Kane Blue River: (laughs)
KBR uses Rocket Punch assist though for TODs off of any confirm or throw.
RayRay's Ryu defies tier lists. Seriously, if ChrisG didn't run MorriDoom (and even with Ryu he makes it competitive) he would have just as many NLBC wins as him.
Also there was a VxG qualifier match between Clockwork and Baba Ganoosh who was using Firebrand/Hulk (AA)/Sentinel (Drones). Any combo lead into a hard knockdown unblockable set up with Drones. It wasn't a 1 hit all team dead team but it was super scary. AA assist of Hulk made it hard for Clockwork to rushdown. Clockwork won the set because the guy was ultra free to Strider comebacks but he was demolishing Clockwork's other characters. I already know FB owns Doom in the match up.
RayRay's Ryu defies tier lists. Seriously, if ChrisG didn't run MorriDoom (and even with Ryu he makes it competitive) he would have just as many NLBC wins as him.
Also there was a VxG qualifier match between Clockwork and Baba Ganoosh who was using Firebrand/Hulk (AA)/Sentinel (Drones). Any combo lead into a hard knockdown unblockable set up with Drones. It wasn't a 1 hit all team dead team but it was super scary. AA assist of Hulk made it hard for Clockwork to rushdown. Clockwork won the set because the guy was ultra free to Strider comebacks but he was demolishing Clockwork's other characters. I already know FB owns Doom in the match up.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Back when I played Thor in Vanilla, I x-factored against my friend's blockstring, he counter x-factored and I immediately did a tiger knee air command grab. Best feeling ever.
You'd get some retarded option selects with custom assists. Plus, at the very least every assist would be the H version of the current ones.
Oh, how did I forget to mention this? Pad Dante players, try mapping your Left Trigger to L as if you were playing a Zero team and using that L for Reverb Shock (QCB+L) then practice pressing H in the window for Fireworks. It's what I came up with a while back (around the time I made my last video) and that layout helps me get the raw Fireworks waaaay more often than anything else.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Speaking of Hulk/Sent, played some randoms online just now. The first guy got mad that his Phoenix Wright/Amaterasu/Storm team with amazing tech like raw tag Phoenix for cellphone zoning got mad that I scrubbed out a win because online Viper, so he decides to counterpick me with Hawkeye/Hulk/Sentinel.
Thank God I invested in learning neutral/zoning first in this game. Online was not giving me anything resembling proper combos and negating so many options with Focus/Twister is too good.
Thank God I invested in learning neutral/zoning first in this game. Online was not giving me anything resembling proper combos and negating so many options with Focus/Twister is too good.
Karsticles
Member
I'm sure you can XFC into Aegis Counter, but Morrigan will just XFC back.
Also, Hulk/Sentinel is infuriating unless you play - dun dun dun - Morrigan! c.L mashing > everything Hulk/Sentinel does. Drones go right over her, multi-hit confirm over armor, and it's fast enough that you can go for punishes and still recover before Gamma Crush comes out.
I have been putting some time in this mostly single player and training mode and I have a few questions for people. Keep in mind I am really really new to MVC. So I am using at this point mostly Nova, Iron Fist, Super Skrull, Sentinel, and Dr. Strange. So here is my odd question. So Nova and IF both have a OTG capable attack which can be used to extend combos on a hard knockdown. I can very consistently hit with Iron Fists OTG kick though it just barely kicks them off the ground it seems, but I can hit them with a super. Nova though holy shit it seems completely random when his OTG hits. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. From what I understand hitting with S in the air should force a hard knockdown but sometimes the 6H just seems to wiff them. Is there something I am missing or some property of his moves that I need to understand the get the OTG to hit more consistently? Sorry if this question is so scrubby but this game is nuts.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Felicia f.H > Hulk f.H
Fuck your option selects!
Fuck your option selects!
If the super freeze has already happened, then it's guaranteed. The counter hyper is a 0-framer.
Karsticles
Member
I'll do my best to explain:
Nova's j.S causes a hard knockdown, but it also hits three times. Each of those three hits causes a hard knockdown. The hard knockdown's "timer" starts from when the hard knockdown hit connects. Therefore, if you only hit with the first of the three j.S hits, your hard knockdown timer will run out earlier than it would have if all three of your j.S hits connected.
This is why Nova players use Flight in his aerial combos - it causes more j.S hits to connect consistently. This combo:
s.LMHS, sj.H, fly, j.LHS, f.H, s.S, sj.H, dp.AA
Will hit more consistently than this combo:
s.LMHS, sj.MMHS, f.H, s.S, sj.H, dp.AA
I hope that helps.
I meant XFC in response to Taskmaster's XFC.
I don't really know how Nova works so I don't know if his S is guaranteed hard knockdown off stray hits, but if you launch, then any S is guaranteed hard knockdown. If you launch and then S (hard knockdown) and you're having trouble OTGing, slow down your air combo so that you land sooner after the opponent does. That will give you more time to OTG.
This is perfect! Thank you sir! Iron Fists OTG seems to knock people up less than Nova's. Is it just a less effective OTG or should I be able to launch off of it like you can with Nova's?
Karsticles
Member
I don't think you can launch off of Iron Fist's OTG, you can only string more rekkas together. Different ground bounces knock people up to different heights. It's the ground bounce that's knocking them up, not the OTG. Knock someone down with Dr. Doom and use s.M to follow up for an example of an OTG that does not ground bounce.
As Karst said, Iron Fist can't launch after his OTG. But that is because Iron Fist's launcher is unique: It must be blocked low and only hits opponents who are standing. (It whiffs on anyone who is in the air)
I feel like I am just barely starting to understand this insane game. So if I am having problems with OTG type stuff (which seem VERY powerful and important.) delaying the last couple hits of the air combo should give me more time to get on the ground and hit them. Fantastic. Now to decide on a team!
I love Iron Fist and Nova. Neither seem to have amazing assists though so my 3rd I feel like needs to have a really good one. Dr. Strange with bolts is very cool and hit book super hits off the ground and is easy to DHC into. Sentinel also has a great assist and I find his OTG to super really easy to do. Prolly gonna go with Sent but Dr. Strange is so much fun. Hard to pick!
I love Iron Fist and Nova. Neither seem to have amazing assists though so my 3rd I feel like needs to have a really good one. Dr. Strange with bolts is very cool and hit book super hits off the ground and is easy to DHC into. Sentinel also has a great assist and I find his OTG to super really easy to do. Prolly gonna go with Sent but Dr. Strange is so much fun. Hard to pick!
Karsticles
Member
Oh no, Iron Fist has a fantastic assist: Rising Fang. It's really good.
Nova has two solid assists: Gravimetric Pulse, and Centurian Rush (M?). Neither can hold a team together all that well, but they're solid.
I recommend picking one of the two characters you are interested in and playing 100 matches with the team. I've been playing this game for over 2 years and still haven't settled on a team. ;-)
Good advise. I will prolly start with Sentinel just because I feel more effective with him in a basic fight. Strange I cant really pull off any of his fancy shit at all its just that the book is so easy to hit with that I know I can do damage with him.
Are there any other characters you're interested in playing? (Aside from Nova, Iron Fist, Super Skrull, Sentinel, and Dr. Strange.)
As far as building a team goes, I'd start with something like Nova(Centurion Rush)/x/Sentinel(Drones). Where x is whoever you want to use in the middle.
IIRC Sentinel can relaunch with Nova's centurion rush assist.
Example: c.M j.MMHS call Nova assist( when you land) qcf L s.S j.MHS qcf L qcf AA.
You can get full combos off Nova's airthrow with f.H( if close) and dp L( if far away, then s.LMS ...etc)
I won't comment on any of your other characters, since I don't really play any of them well.
Seconded, you can learn a lot by sticking with the same team for a while.
Karsticles
Member
Jump, air dash up-back, set a trap, fly, plink dash forward along the air, dive kick, call Frank West right before you connect, use his pin for high/low or box dash S.
JeTmAn81
Member
The craziest part about KBR's play is that he doesn't even use drones assist. It's weird that he does so well with zero full-screen neutral support.
0_o
Shopping cart assist I assume? And more stupid questions: I'm not familiar with the box dash S, any good guide?
I have no idea how KBR gets away with as much as he does(team construction-wise). That Yipes made a mostly non-xfactor comeback with solo Hawkeye against his team in top 16 says a lot about how poorly constructed KBR's team is, but it's hard to play perfectly for 99 marvel seconds, and one fuck-up plus some bad guesses on welcome mix-ups can cost you the match. Yipes was playing Vergil second, and because of his lack of air mobility, he never actually got to use Vergil in any of his matches against KBR. I still stand by KBR's team being ass. Justin Wong winning early on with Iron Fist didn't mean using IF was a good idea. A testament to the player's skill, not to their smart team construction.
Box dash S is literally jump in the air, air dash forward, press S.
Triangle Jump : |\ ( or /\ )
Box Jump : |¯ ( or /¯ )
KBR's team is near perfect for tournaments where nerves and mistakes come into play. Start of the round you have to deal with Hulk option select, armor AND Lariat. Even if you tech Hulk's air throw you land into a Lariat so if you mash tech too hard you will get hit by Lariat. ANY touch or throw/command throw leads into a dead character and that results into a mix up in the corner. The corner mix up is such that you definitely can't press buttons against Hulk + Lariat but when you are scared to press buttons you are free to command throws or cross ups... which lead into a dead character.
Once you survive the initial mix up/gimmicks you can zone out the entire team but even then you need to be on point because one wrong input can lead into a Hulk j.S or Pipe. Also the only character on Yipes' team who could deal effectively with the team was Hawkeye. Spencer was free to that team and Vergil with his poor incoming options and single hit attacks was free to armor/Lariat. Vergil generally does great against heavy character teams because he is able to punish them where other characters can't but KBR dealt with Vergil before he established any game.
Once you survive the initial mix up/gimmicks you can zone out the entire team but even then you need to be on point because one wrong input can lead into a Hulk j.S or Pipe. Also the only character on Yipes' team who could deal effectively with the team was Hawkeye. Spencer was free to that team and Vergil with his poor incoming options and single hit attacks was free to armor/Lariat. Vergil generally does great against heavy character teams because he is able to punish them where other characters can't but KBR dealt with Vergil before he established any game.
Karsticles
Member
Some sex for GB:
0D0C lets Morrigan combo one Soul Drain in the corner. s.LM, f.M + 0D0C, Soul Drain, fly, j.S, s.S, etc.
2D1C lets you do this:
s.S, sj.MMHS, call 2D1C, Astral Vision, Soul Drain, fly, Soul Drain (corner only)
1D2C lets you do this:
s.S, sj.H, Soul Fist M, fly, ADD, sj.H, Soul Fist M, unfly, j.MMHS + call 1D2C, Astral Vision, Soul Drain; works mid-screen, and sometimes in the corner depending on how meteors fall
3D0C lets you do this:
s.S, sj.MMHS, call 3D0C, Astral Vision, Soul Drain (both hits connect, anywhere)
Yes, shopping cart.
Also, if you get an assist that lets you combo into Round Harvest, you can do Round Harvest -> Raw Tag Frank West -> superjump camera shot. Easy level 4.
0D0C lets Morrigan combo one Soul Drain in the corner. s.LM, f.M + 0D0C, Soul Drain, fly, j.S, s.S, etc.
2D1C lets you do this:
s.S, sj.MMHS, call 2D1C, Astral Vision, Soul Drain, fly, Soul Drain (corner only)
1D2C lets you do this:
s.S, sj.H, Soul Fist M, fly, ADD, sj.H, Soul Fist M, unfly, j.MMHS + call 1D2C, Astral Vision, Soul Drain; works mid-screen, and sometimes in the corner depending on how meteors fall
3D0C lets you do this:
s.S, sj.MMHS, call 3D0C, Astral Vision, Soul Drain (both hits connect, anywhere)
See LakeEarth on the box dash.
Yes, shopping cart.
Also, if you get an assist that lets you combo into Round Harvest, you can do Round Harvest -> Raw Tag Frank West -> superjump camera shot. Easy level 4.
Thanks!
So is the idea to to dash almost instantly (like Raptor's insta-air dash Roundhouse in VS, UF, F, K) for a near ground level hit?
It just blows my mind the KBR made a team absolutely dependent on not playing the neutral at all, which is avoiding the one really fun part of the game. Chris G's team, lame as it may be, is outplaying the opponent for the entirety of the match at least (or showing them they lost at character select).
"God's Beard!"
Member
That's cool that you get your little meter ball and all, but with Magneto Liberation lets you kill Sentinel for no meter ^_^
I actually think it's best with Doom. It's almost a meterless Ammy THC. Magneto/Dormammu/Doom is so good, too bad nobody plays it.
Join the club.
Here's a new combo I came across with Trish/Dr. Strange in practice.
j.H, j.d+H, cr.L, cr.M, cr.H, S, j.M, j.d+H, assist call daggers of denak, s.L, s.M, s.H, S, j.H, qcb+H/round trip, d+H, qcf+L, d+H, qcf+L, too much stimulus for you hyper.
The timing and placement has to be correct, though. Otherwise, it's a missed combo.
That and other reasons are why I don't spectate marvel. You people hype it up. All I see is soul fist and hidden missile spam. The only thing I can really applaud is the finger dexterity.
I still watch Marvel. I just stopped paying attention when Chris G steps up, and re-watch the match if he ended up losing.
Different characters have different height minimums before they can air dash, and for some characters, you want a certain height so that your button actually comes out before you hit the ground. It takes a little practice.
Are you kidding me?
Yes, Morrigan has a very high execution barrier, but much more than that she's incredibly difficult to control, position, and capitalize off of stray hits. Chris G has an unparalleled understanding of the character, and this comes through with shining colors every time he plays against someone who's skilled.
ChrisG's SoulFist placement and mobility is a marvel. He uses his brain while playing every fraction of a second, which is much more than I can say for most Wolverines and Vergils (yes, I'm aware that Chris also uses Vergil, but he essentially uses him as a failsafe... I don't find his Vergil very interesting to watch usually).
There's also the misconception that ChrisG is just doing the same thing every match. He's not. He's adapting where necessary, and his character knowledge has grown significantly over the past few months.
I've just recently got into spectating. I never used to be a big spectator. It's either I'm opening Marvel streams at the wrong times or something else. In recent memory, I once opened a stream to a Zero player singlehandely demolishing all three characters on the other team with the same combo repeated over and over and over again. Then, I caught a whiff of the grand finals at Final Round and I was legitimately hoping rayray would get the win.....but noooooooooooooope.
Morrigan is very hard to use and the placement does have to be correct. It isn't easy which is why I'm applauding finger dexterity. But when the whole match consists of using two moves, that just sucks the fun out of everything.
That's where game familiarity comes into play. Why use all the moves in your arsenal when half of them suck? Why use 20 different combos when only one is the best? The point of competition is to do what it takes to win. If you can win with using two moves, that says something. Of course it's actually a LOT more complicated than that, but that's just one way to look at it.
"God's Beard!"
Member
lolz
It's more than finger dexterity. It's knowledge and handling. That's what's interesting about watching ChrisG.
I don't think it sucks the fun out of anything, but that's just me. Just because a combo has about 20 different moves in it doesn't necessarily make the match more entertaining for me when it always starts with a YOLO Footdive, Helmbreaker, Berserker Slash, Tri-jump A. I'm not saying those things don't take skill, but to say that the entire match comes down to two moves is too reductionist.
Yeah, if Sayah is really new to Marvel, then I'd recommend him watching something that's both smart and flashy like Yipes. It can be understood and appreciated regardless of character knowledge. He's always a spectacle. He's probably my favorite player to watch right now.
And this is a great match. One of my favorites. Both players' reactions are on point and they are playing so intelligently.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";52653087]lolz[/QUOTE]
Pun intended.
Best marvel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GauAdTvauVM
Karsticles
Member
To be fair, Morrigan only has three specials, and one of them isn't worth using most of the time.
I don't get hyped for Soul Fist and missiles spam usually either. 90% of the time ChrisG is playing against a team that can't handle it so it's essentially a one player game (MorriDoom vs Ryu, Haggar, Hulk, Wesker, Sentinel is dumb as fuck). When it's ChrisG vs another zoning team that knows what it's doing and is actually playing the match up like the set vs Champ at SBA, that's hype because it's a battle of attrition, match ups, space control and meter management. But when it's against a bad match up ChrisG doesn't have to use his brain or skill in match up much... he's thinking to himself "wow this is free as fuck, why do people use these characters against my team? Free rent money". The only reason why ChrisG would get hit by someone like Ryu is because he was on full auto pilot and turned off his brain, just fell back on muscle memory and reflexes on Soul spam.
And good Wolverine play is hype for me to watch. I love watching Justin Wong and PRRog play Wolverine. Noel's Wolverine is way too passive for me to give a crap about but it's safe and effective. The only Vergil I get hyped for is Yipes', every other Vergil is ass in comparison. They can't hold their own dick if they are out of resources and it usually shows. I guess it's a matter of playing the character you play and then watching others play it, you can see who is playing it right and who is playing it derp. I say the same for Wesker as well.
And good Wolverine play is hype for me to watch. I love watching Justin Wong and PRRog play Wolverine. Noel's Wolverine is way too passive for me to give a crap about but it's safe and effective. The only Vergil I get hyped for is Yipes', every other Vergil is ass in comparison. They can't hold their own dick if they are out of resources and it usually shows. I guess it's a matter of playing the character you play and then watching others play it, you can see who is playing it right and who is playing it derp. I say the same for Wesker as well.
It was a great match but now it won't pan out the same way mostly because ChrisG's Morrigan has improved a ton and he rushes down far more often. Unless Yipes upgraded his Dante dramatically in the match up.
I don't contest this at all. It's certainly outdated at this point. ChrisG's Morrigan is significantly better and he now has Vergil on his team. His Doom is better, too. Yipes seems to have dropped Dante in most cases, which is a real shame because I contend that he was the best.
But Yipes has some tricks up his sleeve as well, I'm sure, and we haven't seen the two go head-to-head recently.
I fully expect Yipes to pick Spencer next runback with ChrisG. Then he's gonna get bopped a few games, he's gonna crack, go to character select screen and pick Dante and fail even harder because he's already done mentally.
That seems to be how Yipes rolls, unfortunately.
That seems to be how Yipes rolls, unfortunately.
Yipes should just learn Strider for the Morrigan matchup, at least.
I fully expect Yipes to pick Spencer next runback with ChrisG. Then he's gonna get bopped a few games, he's gonna crack, go to character select screen and pick Dante and fail even harder because he's already done mentally.
That seems to be how Yipes rolls, unfortunately.
Yipes should just learn Strider for the Morrigan matchup, at least.
I remember Yipes saying that he's been experimenting with different counterteams on his stream a long time ago. I don't know what, if anything, came out of that.
One of the biggest strengths of ChrisG's team is that you can't reliably practice against it without having ChrisG there. No one else is able to play MorriDoom close to his level of skill.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Shut up Beef.
Karsticles
Member
Every area should pick someone and cultivate them to play Morrigan/Doom to help people learn the matchup. Otherwise this is going to go on for a long time.