"God's Beard!"
Member
Nobody's mastered the god mode movement for doom. down-forward, up-forward, down-forward, neutral x infinity.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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@kevo_huevo- For the Doom clock loop, I always let the first j.M hit twice, but the second only once. As you guessed, the best way to get damage using Akuma tatsu assist seems to be (in the corner after hard knockdown), call Akuma, wait a fraction of a second, st.H, H plasma beam, sphere flame.
That Yipes syndrome- hates playing any character without a normal ground wave/plink dash. Being able to pull off midscreen Maziodyne loops yet having difficulties with tri-dashing blows my mind, haha
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";53595939]Nobody's mastered the god mode movement for doom. down-forward, up-forward, down-forward, neutral x infinity.[/QUOTE]
Wait, what? How is this supposed to work?
That Yipes syndrome- hates playing any character without a normal ground wave/plink dash. Being able to pull off midscreen Maziodyne loops yet having difficulties with tri-dashing blows my mind, haha
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";53595939]Nobody's mastered the god mode movement for doom. down-forward, up-forward, down-forward, neutral x infinity.[/QUOTE]
Wait, what? How is this supposed to work?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Doom has a really low height requirement for his airdash, so if you're fast you can have the down command from super jumping as the first input for his tridash. Makes for a super-fast super jump tridash.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";53609256]Doom has a really low height requirement for his airdash, so if you're fast you can have the down command from super jumping as the first input for his tridash. Makes for a super-fast super jump tridash.[/QUOTE]
Ahh, that makes sense- like how Nova's diddybop input works. I need to mess around with this.
Ahh, that makes sense- like how Nova's diddybop input works. I need to mess around with this.
My execution is weird and all over the place. I honestly don't understand it myself. Although I can do tridash movement in training mode, in an actual game my brain refuses to work it out. >_>
In general, 'neutral' execution is much, much harder for me than combo execution. I tend to be worried I'll mess up and get hit, so my execution plummets.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Canceling Doom's low short into a dash into a tiger knee photon array looks really cool. Not that he needs more anti-pushblock tech.
For me, neutral game difficulty vs. combo difficulty is kind of character specific. I feel relatively comfortable doing neutral game Strider stuff, but I am horribly inconsistent at doing his more optimized combos. During a combo, my Dante looks fine but otherwise I box dash around like a maniac, chuck air plays, and hope nobody notices how fraudulent I am. I feel crippled by choice having so many moves at my disposal with him
Apologyman isnt gonna win anything at NCR with firebrand. Drew Grimey was just mindfucked and scared when all he had to do was touch firebrand and xfactor. Once firebrand is dead, Doom-Skrull is kinda meh by itself you gotta random them out with xf3 skull.
What made it more hilarious is the fact that he plays the same unblockable bullshit team. His is even more gay because he has 2 dark anchors on his team.
What are your guys' opinions on X-23 and Jill? Worthless?
What made it more hilarious is the fact that he plays the same unblockable bullshit team. His is even more gay because he has 2 dark anchors on his team.
What are your guys' opinions on X-23 and Jill? Worthless?
X-23 has 3 for 1 unblockable technology but it requires a TAC infinite character... which means a properly designed team is a really cheap/top team.
Jill has no such similar thing and requires a shell of something like Vergil/Doom to add to her damage. Usable as a point character but she basically does similar stuff to Wolverine (no zoning, pure rushdown/mix down character but harder to use).
Felicia has sort of been forgotten even though she has similar stuff to those characters plus an actual usable assist and scary anchor potential. She is more solid than Jill IMO simply because of her throw game is just so good plus she can self OTG off a Vajra hit meaning she can tackle hard match ups easier.
Jill has no such similar thing and requires a shell of something like Vergil/Doom to add to her damage. Usable as a point character but she basically does similar stuff to Wolverine (no zoning, pure rushdown/mix down character but harder to use).
Felicia has sort of been forgotten even though she has similar stuff to those characters plus an actual usable assist and scary anchor potential. She is more solid than Jill IMO simply because of her throw game is just so good plus she can self OTG off a Vajra hit meaning she can tackle hard match ups easier.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Felicia has quite a few ways to get you into a tac infinite. Her command grab having the range and speed it does makes her pretty damn good. Air Delta kick beats out a ton of shit in game too and it annoys Karst which is always a plus.
She has a knee drop which is better than what some characters have.
kevo_huevo
Member
thanks for all the doom tips, zissou, very much appreciated.
Ahh yeah, forgot about that. Still, when the other characters from her archetype have delta kick, dive kick, etc. for easy reliable air-to-air confirms, who is gonna pick her?
Speaking of Felicia, who are potentially her ideal teammates? Strider seems obvious,
which seems to suggest Felicia/Doom/Strider, but I'm not sure which kind of projectile assist the cat likes the best.
She needs jam session (other assists- tenderizer etc. may work, not sure. Jam session is the one people most frequently mention) to guarantee the dirt nap.
You need Dante as one of the characters. You can basically pick a 3rd from Magneto, Iron Man or Doom to supply the beam and TAC infinite.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
oogie boogie
I definitely fall into this category. Too many times I've found myself requiring that movement playing Doom or Dormammu nd it's gotten me killed in the worst ways. Sucks too since Dormammu's one of my favorites in this game.
Karsticles
Member
I have inverse Yipes syndrome. I'm weak at wavedashing, especially backwards, but I can hop with Doom, Dormammu, and Morrigan all day. :-/
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
That's why I hate playing Doom. Doofus won't move.
Daily Haggar salt. Got super jump height piped with Trish, he got hit by the Hopscotch I just laid right before getting hit which took about a second to hit him after he hit me. He back techs, lands, dashes up, OTGs, and continues to kill my Trish.
how does that even work
Honestly, a lot of my neutral game is made up entirely of j.M > Air Play repeatedly. It's the Dante flowchart, imo. Everything else you do with Dante is entirely matchup/player/style specific, which is the biggest thing to know when learning Dante. You have to radically change your gameplan against pretty much every character/team/player, unlike most characters who can just flowchart the exact same gameplan. It's honestly why I like him, but it's also why he's a very difficult character at the higher level. Doesn't help that in this game, one fuck up generally means death.
how does that even work
Better than the 'j.S > Hammer only' Dantes. I remember playing one Dante that never even used ground normals, and just j.S > Hammer'd all day. I was like "wtf is this".For me, neutral game difficulty vs. combo difficulty is kind of character specific. I feel relatively comfortable doing neutral game Strider stuff, but I am horribly inconsistent at doing his more optimized combos. During a combo, my Dante looks fine but otherwise I box dash around like a maniac, chuck air plays, and hope nobody notices how fraudulent I am. I feel crippled by choice having so many moves at my disposal with him
Honestly, a lot of my neutral game is made up entirely of j.M > Air Play repeatedly. It's the Dante flowchart, imo. Everything else you do with Dante is entirely matchup/player/style specific, which is the biggest thing to know when learning Dante. You have to radically change your gameplan against pretty much every character/team/player, unlike most characters who can just flowchart the exact same gameplan. It's honestly why I like him, but it's also why he's a very difficult character at the higher level. Doesn't help that in this game, one fuck up generally means death.
Das paipu- the one move where when it trades with my Doom j.S I think, 'Oh fuck' instead of 'Fuck yeah!'
I feel like I need a list of characters/duos and the specials I should be using against each, haha. I completely forget about situational stuff like multilock or crystal. Maybe I should start writing down notes after matches. It doesn't help that Dante is my second character so I get comparatively less experience with him. I should start him for a while just to get more point Dante experience, I think.
Random aside- what's the best way to handle a teleport happy Dormammu (I play Doom/Dante/Strider)? I assumed from the frame data (30 total frames between start-up and recovery) that at least Dante would have a consistent answer (I figured I could punish with st.H or something), but Dorm appears just far enough away that it seems difficult to punish on reaction (unless I'm missing something. The excludes his H teleport which puts him right above you, of course). Anybody have any ideas?
"God's Beard!"
Member
X-23 needs Jam Session for absolutely nothing. People really need to stop saying that.
That's debatable. Doom has poor ground mobility, and it seems for personal preference/playstyle reasons, Yipes prefers to play characters that are fast on the ground with their wave dashing. Sentinel is sort of fast on the ground, but can't airdash or anything to get the same mileage out of flight that someone like Magneto does. Yipes is known for his movement in marvel- I don't know how you could argue he plays low mobility characters.
I'll see about writing up a brief list of which move works in which matchup, and I'll see about factoring certain assists in as well. Won't get into all the subtle details, but it'll should help give you some ideas. Anything more, and you'll have to wait until I finish my guide(that's going, but slooooowwwllly)
Unassisted, s.M works pretty well. Probably won't punish, unless you were expecting it, but it'll give you pressure at least - and Dorm can't really deal with pressure. If they have a beam or something, I like to just jump around with j.M. Against the teleport/fish-hook Dorm's, I just jump around with j.M and they usually run into it.
Doom can do two Doom hops and cover the whole screen faster than like Hawkeye, Vergil, or Spencer wave dashing/plinking can. People just choose not to do anything with Doom except super jump around fishing for grabs cuz people still lose to it for whatever reason. Sentinel has a really good ground dash IMO.
Yea Yipes movement is good but most of the time I see him use EMD>teleport or SS>teleport or just grapple in with Spencer. Its solid stuff but not really movement related to me. I just don't get the Doom/Sent hate.
Edit: I suppose Dooms movement on the ground is not as safe as regular wavedashing
Professor Beef
Banned
Because Sentinel's height takes up nearly the entire screen and he's build like a house of cards. He's also only really fast on the ground compared to his air movement.
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";53628642]X-23 needs Jam Session for absolutely nothing. People really need to stop saying that.[/QUOTE]
Can't you just do something like dp.H in incoming into S? Seems like it would work.
Can't you just do something like dp.H in incoming into S? Seems like it would work.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Yeah, but it only works if they block it. If they get hit they'll go out of range of the activation. Furthermore, it can be pushblocked with obscene yomi skills.
Any assist at all that covers incoming works. Vergil, Shuma, Iron Man, doesn't really matter as long as it hits upwards. The idea that she needs Jam Session specifically for anything is ridiculous. Log Trap is her best assist overall.
You can do it meaty without an assist as well, but it's hard to time.
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";53630262]Yeah, but it only works if they block it. If they get hit they'll go out of range of the activation. Furthermore, it can be pushblocked with obscene yomi skills.
Any assist at all that covers incoming works. Vergil, Shuma, Iron Man, doesn't really matter as long as it hits upwards. The idea that she needs Jam Session specifically for anything is ridiculous. Log Trap is her best assist overall.
You can do it meaty without an assist as well, but it's hard to time.[/QUOTE]
If it hits, can't you just d.H, qcf.L, OTG, launcher? Assuming you're in XF that is.
Yeah, I think Log Trap is her best assist, too. I actually think someone should take Kusoru's team but swap Joe for X-23. X-23 -> Frank DHC glitch lets him level up easy, and once you have level 4 Frank you can use X-23 for unblockables.
Any assist at all that covers incoming works. Vergil, Shuma, Iron Man, doesn't really matter as long as it hits upwards. The idea that she needs Jam Session specifically for anything is ridiculous. Log Trap is her best assist overall.
You can do it meaty without an assist as well, but it's hard to time.[/QUOTE]
If it hits, can't you just d.H, qcf.L, OTG, launcher? Assuming you're in XF that is.
Yeah, I think Log Trap is her best assist, too. I actually think someone should take Kusoru's team but swap Joe for X-23. X-23 -> Frank DHC glitch lets him level up easy, and once you have level 4 Frank you can use X-23 for unblockables.
I've been looking forward to that guide for a year, haha. I'm sure making it is a pain in the ass though. Any tidbits related to Dante neutral game stuff that you have in the meantime would be greatly appreciated
Thanks for the anti-TP ideas-I'll try them out and see how it goes. My friend plays Dorm backed with Akuma tatsu assist, so I'm always wary of going too crazy with offense and getting tagged by it- maybe I need to throw caution to the wind and just go nuts and hope for the best.
I think Dante, maybe because of his aesthetic or his legacy from the DMC series, ended up having disproportionate info on combo stuff he can do rather than general info on how to play the character effectively neutral game-wise. Every once in a while, I'll catch something when Yipes is streaming, like 'after a blocked
box dash H, going in for a dash in cr.M will catch people expecting a second box dash H' but there's no consolidated source of information.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Huh? No, you can't do anything but Talon Attack or activation after her Crescent Scythe. If they get hit, it pops them up to super jump height and nothing X-23 does will reach them before they air recover. You could x-factor, land then superjump and try to activate again, but you're more than likely wasting x-factor on top of the 3 bars at that point. You probably won't be able to kill the 3rd character anyway because you won't have enough level 1 x-factor left for the 2nd dirt nap.
I know what you mean. The last lobby I played in, I saw the most disgustingly awesome footsie sequence ever with Dante. It was versus an anchor Strider (last characters on both team, no X-Factor) and they were both dashing in and out trying to get the last combo for the match. Basically, when the guy playing Dante got a read on Strider's dash up, he put out the most psychic looking c.M xx Reverb Shock x Devil Trigger and it immediately clicked in my head. I would NEVER have thought of that, but it worked so well and made so much sense that it blew my mind. :lol
"God's Beard!"
Member
The thing people don't really know about Dirt Nap teams, is that it's really not near-perfect like Firebrand or C.Viper stuff. It can be broken a bunch of different ways. My team is Strider/X-23/Magneto which isn't one of the better ones from a pure 300% perspective, but it helps to illustrate what it can't do.
These are teams that I can't 300% no matter what:
Of course, in many of these situations, I'm hardly in a losing position. But it could mean leaving an anchor with 50k health left but having 5 bars and level 3 x-factor.
Phoenix teams and lag armor are the main counters, but Doom/Vergil teams are free once hit. It's basically flipping the top 3 anchors around from their normal positions.
These are teams that I can't 300% no matter what:
- Point characters with 750k health
- 2nd slot characters with more than 1.1 million or less than 850k health
- Anchors with more than 950k health
- 2nd or anchor characters with invincible hypers
- Phoenix teams
Of course, in many of these situations, I'm hardly in a losing position. But it could mean leaving an anchor with 50k health left but having 5 bars and level 3 x-factor.
Phoenix teams and lag armor are the main counters, but Doom/Vergil teams are free once hit. It's basically flipping the top 3 anchors around from their normal positions.
Karsticles
Member
The attempts some people are making to engage in UMvC3 balance discussion in the FGW thread are hilarious.
This is part of my therapeutic attempts to not engage in discussion...
This is part of my therapeutic attempts to not engage in discussion...
The crazies don't seem to come in here much, at least. Marvel discussion in the weekly thread is always spotty at best. Shit like thinking loopable hard drives are too good blows my mind. Of all the characters to complain about- you're going to whine about Sent? Really?
Karsticles
Member
And for the meter it costs...wow. I don't even remember how much each Hard Drive does, I just remember that when I do a Sentinel combo into Hard Drive chains, as each one ends I think "that's all it did?" I even TK Rocket Punch before each one.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I like patch discussion because it's always a good trolling opportunity.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I dunno, I posted in the manga thread for like two years and still convinced a couple people I was Masashi Kishimoto.
Karsticles
Member
He and ZTS are GFAQs regulars, and they're the exact same there.
More balance talk kinda makes me want to do the entire cast now. Probably won't, though. I'm not knowledgeable enough on some characters to make balance changes.
As for the Yipes bit, yeah. There's tons of info all over the place, but not in one location. That's kinda why I'm writing the guide. A 'one-stop' location for everything you need to know.
I am the world's biggest procrastinator, I'm sorry! Haha. One part of it is that I'm very, very particular about these sorts of things. I want it to be comprehensive, but easy to read, so there's a ton of rewriting, rearranging, reorganizing, etc. Plus, I'm always learning new things with Dante as I go, so that results in various rewrites. I'll get there eventually!I've been looking forward to that guide for a year, haha. I'm sure making it is a pain in the ass though. Any tidbits related to Dante neutral game stuff that you have in the meantime would be greatly appreciated
It didn't help that vanilla let Dante combo everything and anything together, so most of the focus was on that, especially since he could get away with just s.L and Hammer.
As for the Yipes bit, yeah. There's tons of info all over the place, but not in one location. That's kinda why I'm writing the guide. A 'one-stop' location for everything you need to know.
Hard Drive does like 120k per Hard Drive, I think. I know it's really terrible damage, and honestly there's no reason to get rid of it.
Here's the FGTV balance patch change list for those who are curious. This is from memory so it might be missing something.
Tron:
I missed this section.
Ghost Rider:
Can double jump
Has command throws at mid range (like Skrull)
Bike has proper invincibility
Can properly do MMHS and LMHS in air/ground
She Hulk:
Cr.L mashable again (they stated that no character should be allowed to mash cr.L on whiff or something)
Slide range increased
Lampost move start up decreased
Wolverine:
No more Fatal Claw loops
Damage from combos reduced by 10%. Pretty sure they meant standard BnB combo not scaling because Wolverine's values are already low.
No more Swiss Cheese or something.
Sentinel:
L Rocket Punch causes soft knockdown (no idea why they suggested this)
Health 1.1 million
No more Hard Drive loops
S and j.S cause block damage
Hawkeye
Proper chaining of normals given
F.M special cancellable
Double jump or wall jump
Phoenix
No change
Vergil
RT glitch removed
Spiral Swords have more start up/recovery, easier to punish
Helm Breaker cannot be cancelled to SHS or other special moves (if I remember this correctly)
Helm Breaker -1 on block
Hit boxes adjusted
Storm
Flight start up reduced
Lightning Sphere less start up, H version has semi tracking capability
Double Typhoon have much faster statt up
Whirlwind have faster start up (I think they suggested 10, 15, 20 start up)
Tron:
I missed this section.
Ghost Rider:
Can double jump
Has command throws at mid range (like Skrull)
Bike has proper invincibility
Can properly do MMHS and LMHS in air/ground
She Hulk:
Cr.L mashable again (they stated that no character should be allowed to mash cr.L on whiff or something)
Slide range increased
Lampost move start up decreased
Wolverine:
No more Fatal Claw loops
Damage from combos reduced by 10%. Pretty sure they meant standard BnB combo not scaling because Wolverine's values are already low.
No more Swiss Cheese or something.
Sentinel:
L Rocket Punch causes soft knockdown (no idea why they suggested this)
Health 1.1 million
No more Hard Drive loops
S and j.S cause block damage
Hawkeye
Proper chaining of normals given
F.M special cancellable
Double jump or wall jump
Phoenix
No change
Vergil
RT glitch removed
Spiral Swords have more start up/recovery, easier to punish
Helm Breaker cannot be cancelled to SHS or other special moves (if I remember this correctly)
Helm Breaker -1 on block
Hit boxes adjusted
Storm
Flight start up reduced
Lightning Sphere less start up, H version has semi tracking capability
Double Typhoon have much faster statt up
Whirlwind have faster start up (I think they suggested 10, 15, 20 start up)
I'm not sure how you're thinking you'll put it out there once it's done, but you could always make it a publicly viewable google doc or something while it's a work in progress. I understand being a bit OCD about stuff though.
I wish SRK did a better job of segmenting their forums when a new iteration or update of a game comes out. Instead they just mash everything together and it becomes difficult
to discern what threads and information are relevant to the current version of the game. This is to say nothing of their other recent
bad changes. It definitely exacerbates the issue of people being stuck with a certain view of a character (Dante = hammer, etc.)
Ragingnight
Member
To be fair I wasn't whining nor did I ever say its too good. I just think its stupid conceptually for any character to have a loopable super no matter what place they are in the tier scale. But I know its all about labeling each other on the internet so I understand.
I don't see what's conceptually wrong with looping hypers- like others have said, Sent still ends up doing way less damage for three bars than a character with a proper level three.
As for the 'crazies' comment- it may have been uncalled for (and was not meant to refer any one person specifically). Real insanity is whoever was saying they want Doom to be Captain Commando-style assist tier and stuff like that. People like that clearly don't care about the game having a healthy competitive community or it being reasonably balanced shouldn't be posting anything about balance changes.
It just gets annoying seeing people who never set foot in the OT to talk about actually playing the game come out of the woodwork in the FGC weekly thread or threads for majors and talk about about bizarre balance changes they want to see.
They said characters with rapid fire normals can no longer rapid fire them on whiff. They specifically mentioned Magneto's s.L, and how he can just stand under someone and mash it to anti-air them. This change would remove that. Probably their best change, imo(the rest are kinda meh).
I'm not entirely sure how I'll get it on the internet, but I'll figure it out eventually. One thing I do want to do is have video links for combos, mixups/setups, and what not. I've also considered making pictures with rough approximation of distance, spacing, hitboxes, etc to give an idea of when, where, and how to use certain moves. Like have a picture Dante and Wolverine at each end of the screen, and have multi-colored areas where using, say, Crystal would be a good idea, or a really bad idea. The text would go into detail on all the options and counters you can set up at those spaces and what have you.
Whether or not I'll actually be able to do any of that is anyone's guess. My goal right now is to actually finish a text version before I even go beyond just the idea of that sort of thing. It'd certainly be nice, though!
I'm setting myself up for failure.