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[Dahbomb]

BTW Vergil has a unique air dash animation in H&H mode. He has a blue reticle that pops up like Dante if you give him an air dash.

Magus actually suggested that Blistering Swords and Storm Swords should have their own special command and be their own 1 meter hypers. TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

FGTV was messing around with She Hulk plus air dash and yeah... that's WAY too good. Box dash j.H and j.S is like damn near unblockable once she gets in range.

 

[Frantic]

BTW Vergil has a unique air dash animation in H&H mode. He has a blue reticle that pops up like Dante if you give him an air dash.

I've known that since H&H came out. Suggests, to me, that Vergil had an airdash outside of Devil Trigger at one point during development, especially since giving him a double jump doesn't have any additional animation... not that it really makes much sense since Vergil doesn't have double jump/airdash in DMC3. I don't know why they even gave him them in DT, either.

I remember CJ saying something along the lines of "why does Dante get it and Vergil doesn't" while they were testing it out, and I had a brief fit of nerd rage.

FGTV was messing around with She Hulk plus air dash and yeah... that's WAY too good. Box dash j.H and j.S is like damn near unblockable once she gets in range.

But is it better than Dante's?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Anybody wanna play?

Anybody have that crazy damage Deadpool combo?

Also, Wesker has the best airdash.

 

[Dahbomb]

But is it better than Dante's?

It's way better man. Like the moves come out really fast. Plus you have to factor in She Hulk's superior air game, it would essentially be 90% of her offense... just box dash forward j.H all the time. Basically her entire game plan would be call an assist, use her better slide (because that was her change too) then box dash j.H. She also had a double jump so that's like a potential for a double overhead.

I've known that since H&H came out. Suggests, to me, that Vergil had an airdash outside of Devil Trigger at one point during development, especially since giving him a double jump doesn't have any additional animation... not that it really makes much sense since Vergil doesn't have double jump/airdash in DMC3. I don't know why they even gave him them in DT, either.

I remember CJ saying something along the lines of "why does Dante get it and Vergil doesn't" while they were testing it out, and I had a brief fit of nerd rage.

Yeah that's what I thought too. I just find it weird that they didn't use that animation for his Devil Trigger air dash version. Vergil doesn't even need the air dash in his Devil Trigger, it just makes him even more godlike in that hyper. Vergil having an air dash would almost be Dante Vanilla Hammer dumb.

 

[DeadPhoenix9065]

Was board in class so I reworked idea of Karst with the Dark Phoenix force transformation but also changed the original as well. Too broken or just not a good idea? Not many characters rely on meter as heavily as she would, so I would like her to be the most meter hungry character. Sorry Vergil, Dorm...
-note this is going off the attributes as the games is as of now, frame data, moves, specials, ect.



Dark Phoenix Rises - lvl 5
-cost five stocks of meter
-Health drains over time
-Health no longer drains when 3 or more bars are built
-health can drain to zero ( cause an unblockable burst that causes 600,000 of direct damage to anyone on the screen including own assists (can only be done on the ground; No burst if KO'd or chipped)



Force Transform - lvl 3 transform
-Health does not drain
-Feathers, enhanced Traps and Shots are locked until 3 bars are built (relocked if below 3)
-meter is dropped to 1 meter instead of zero when activated
-Red health recovers while "healing Sphere" is active with 3 or more meter stocked.
(opponent doesn't need to be in field for red health to recover)
-Reverts back to Phoenix if meter is empty

*Once you activate one of them, you can not use the other until the match is over

 

[Karsticles]

I don't think giving her two separate transformations is the way to go - that's a lot of work for programmers. I suggested mine because it's probably 1-2 lines of code for Capcom to plop in. Adding two new hypers to her and a bunch of conditionals seems unnecessarily complicated. Beauty through simplicity, I say.

Edit: Also, her health draining is very fair with current X-Factor values. If her health did not drain, Phoenix could lame out a huge portion of the cast with just s.L spam. Something is needed to pressure her to go in.

How would her death explosion not cause a ton of draws?

Man, Magus' decisions are based on his bad brain.

Pretty much, yeah.

 

[Dahbomb]

Just give her self activation on Dark Phoenix with 5 bars. No additional changes required.

I don't understand the last part of the LVL5 Dark Phoenix. That reads like a 600K unblockable explosion on death...

A LVL3 pseudo-Dark Phoenix is unnecessary.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Man, Magus' decisions are based on his bad matchups.

 

[Dahbomb]

Man, Magus' decisions are based on his bad matchups.

"I hate this character so he should get shit taken away from him"

Or

"I love this character so make him broke"

I swear if FChamp wasn't there Magus would've destroyed Wolverine. He essentially wanted Berserker Slash to be deleted from the game.

 

[enzo_gt]

Those hold-forward infinites are the weirdest thing ever.

 

[Frantic]

It's way better man. Like the moves come out really fast. Plus you have to factor in She Hulk's superior air game, it would essentially be 90% of her offense... just box dash forward j.H all the time. Basically her entire game plan would be call an assist, use her better slide (because that was her change too) then box dash j.H. She also had a double jump so that's like a potential for a double overhead.

You know who would be broken with an airdash? Frank West. lol

Yeah that's what I thought too. I just find it weird that they didn't use that animation for his Devil Trigger air dash version. Vergil doesn't even need the air dash in his Devil Trigger, it just makes him even more godlike in that hyper. Vergil having an air dash would almost be Dante Vanilla Hammer dumb.

Probably because Vergil never actually has those circle things, so they just decided to scrap it. Who knows. It's Cacpcom.

"I hate this character so he should get shit taken away from him"

Or

"I love this character so make him broke"

Bias? What's that?

 

[Dahbomb]

I actually laughed out loud at the Phoenix section. Every single suggestion either was too good or made her even worse so they were like fuck it.. No change.

I can't believe Magus thought giving Phoenix 750K health was a good idea. FChamp had to explain to him by showing how that would be dumb.

Still not as bad as FChamp's two Phoenix suggestion so that he can have Dark Phoenix/Dorm/Phoenix on one team...

 

["God's Beard!"]

The only change I want for Wolverine is to be able to cancel his Amazon River Run into Drill Claw.

 

[Professor Beef]

I don't even want to know how they'll make VJoe worse.

 

[Karsticles]

Still not as bad as FChamp's two Phoenix suggestion so that he can have Dark Phoenix/Dorm/Phoenix on one team...

Do tell. Are you in the USA for the long-term, by the way?

I don't even want to know how they'll make VJoe worse.

He won't get changed much, but Morrigan? The horrors that await her...

 

[enzo_gt]

He won't get changed much, but Morrigan? The horrors that await her...

If they could fix Phoenix, they can fix Morrigan.

...but only at the cost of making spiral swords damage unscaled or some bullshit nobody asked for.

 

[Azure J]

FGTV's balance patch ideas made me go from to D: so quickly when Magus opened his mouth and pretty much said "characters should stay in their niche (Point/Assist/Anchor)" when everyone else was advocating for good characters...

Only for them to agree with/fall in line with him. All of the jimmies were rustled.

 

[Karsticles]

FGTV's balance patch ideas made me go from to D: so quickly when Magus opened his mouth and pretty much said "characters should stay in their niche (Point/Assist/Anchor)" when everyone else was advocating for good characters...

Only for them to agree with/fall in line with him. All of the jimmies were rustled.

I think it's time for Magus to be put down.

 

[biosnake20]

I've known that since H&H came out. Suggests, to me, that Vergil had an airdash outside of Devil Trigger at one point during development, especially since giving him a double jump doesn't have any additional animation... not that it really makes much sense since Vergil doesn't have double jump/airdash in DMC3. I don't know why they even gave him them in DT, either.

Or it could just be that they took dante's airdash asset and made it blue for H&H.

 

[Dahbomb]

Or it could just be that they took dante's airdash asset and made it blue for H&H.

That doesn't make sense because they could've just used his DT air dash animation.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

The issue of Magus is his belief on how the game should be played. Removing certain systems to make it knockdown mix-up heavy game helps some (mostly his) characters but leaves others in an unfriendly eco-system. Hard Knockdown for a mix-up? I thought SF4 was meant for that.

ShakyK and FChamp understand the decisions Capcom made but want to adjust is because of the many hours of gameplay they have witnessed and understand every character deserves one or two dumb buttons or special moves.

Magus is creating a marvel he wants to play in while FGTV house is making marvel still diverse and different.

 

[Dahbomb]

FGTV's balance patch ideas made me go from to D: so quickly when Magus opened his mouth and pretty much said "characters should stay in their niche (Point/Assist/Anchor)" when everyone else was advocating for good characters...

Only for them to agree with/fall in line with him. All of the jimmies were rustled.

ShadyK is way too neutral and Magus is too forceful with his suggestions so it really comes down to if FChamp accepts Magus' nonsense. Champ was defending Wolverine while Magus was going in, ShadyK..didn't say much aside from the real obvious stuff.

Not to say I disagree with everything Magus says, he does make some good suggestions but the bad ones are those where it's obvious he is making a knee jerk suggestion without much thought behind it.

And yea I am in US long term.

The issue of Magus is his belief on how the game should be played. Removing certain systems to make it knockdown mix-up heavy game helps some (mostly his) characters but leaves others in an unfriendly eco-system. Hard Knockdown for a mix-up? I thought SF4 was meant for that.

That is one suggestion I agree with Magus on. The hard knockdown mix up/reset was just an example of the type of resets that should be MORE prevalent in the game. Right now every single reset in the game (unless it's a guaranteed unblockable reset) is useless because TACs exist... he wants to nerf TACs so that legitimate resets are more viable. Resets are more than just hard knockdown reset, they are dash under during a combo, anti-mash aerial reset, air throw resets etc. Essentially what Viscant's game plan was in Vanilla but extended to more characters. A huge part of the game is ignored because TACs exist... I mean I have a shit ton of Vergil resets I rarely get to use because damage is either too high or TACs are a better option (not that I use TACs much personally but if I wanted to optimize my game I would always TAC into Iron Man if I couldn't kill).

Do tell.

Champ's suggestion was that at the character select you could press like Start plus another button to select between Regular Jean and Dark Phoenix.

Regular Jean is what is in the game now (Jean -> Dark Phoenix at 5 bars). Dark Phoenix selectable character is exactly that but she has no transformation hyper so if she dies once that's that. Basically Champ wanted to play his theory fighter team of Dark Phoenix on point, Dormammu and Jean.

Magus then suggested to just give Jean a health buff, make her move point viable. There were other suggestions given but I can't remember most of them now... they were all universally bad.

 

[Face it Tiger..]

Saw a cool fake today.

 

[Sigmaah]

Saw a cool fake today.

I remember seeing this before, during the UMvC3 character speculation (I think) or it was something similar.

 

[enzo_gt]

I remember seeing this before, during the UMvC3 character speculation (I think) or it was something similar.

Yeah, Psylocke still the most animu in the cast.

 

[Dahbomb]

2 more SF characters in that fake pic is so fail. The Marvel side is good though.

FGTV about to do balance suggestion weekly in about an hour... essentially when Magus gets there. Right now FChamp is doing FT15 vs Taekua

 

[Zissou]

BTW Vergil has a unique air dash animation in H&H mode. He has a blue reticle that pops up like Dante if you give him an air dash.

Magus actually suggested that Blistering Swords and Storm Swords should have their own special command and be their own 1 meter hypers. TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

FGTV was messing around with She Hulk plus air dash and yeah... that's WAY too good. Box dash j.H and j.S is like damn near unblockable once she gets in range.

I remember when She-hulk had an airdash in one of the builds of ultimate. Now look at what has become of her I think it would be fine as long as minimum airdash height was appropriate.

I was using my She-hulk/Doom/Ammy team from vanilla for old time's sake against my friend's Firebrand/Dorm/Akuma team, and
was thinking pretty much the entire time, 'dear lord She-hulk is ass.'

The issue of Magus is his belief on how the game should be played. Removing certain systems to make it knockdown mix-up heavy game helps some (mostly his) characters but leaves others in an unfriendly eco-system. Hard Knockdown for a mix-up? I thought SF4 was meant for that.

ShakyK and FChamp understand the decisions Capcom made but want to adjust is because of the many hours of gameplay they have witnessed and understand every character deserves one or two dumb buttons or special moves.

Magus is creating a marvel he wants to play in while FGTV house is making marvel still diverse and different.

I've always thought every character needed
at least one dumb move. To me, a move like footdive is actually anti-YOLO- like if someone is thoughtlessly mashing buttons like an idiot, one footdive/frying-pan/helm breaker/whatever will put them in their place. If a character doesn't have a single scary move that their opponent has to respect, it feels like the game devolves too easily into absolute stupidity.

 

[Dahbomb]

Foot Dive should exist but it shouldn't fucking have the giant rectangle hit box that it does now.

 

[Zissou]

Against characters like Zero or Vergil though, footdive is the only normal I can use with with Doom to have any hope of beating their ridiculous buttons. It ends up getting beaten by pizza cutter or whatever button Vergil was randomly mashing half the time anyway.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

GGs Solune, that really was a great set. I laughed when your Wesker did the super counter while my Wright was doing his C.H. It looked like I was bowing my head in shame and then in a flash died due to Wesker's awesomeness.

 

[Solune]

GGs Solune, that really was a great set. I laughed when your Wesker did the super counter while my Wright was doing his C.H. It looked like I was bowing my head in shame and then in a flash died due to Wesker's awesomeness.

GGs man, that was a lot of fun. I recorded it if you want me to upload the matches. There's alot of me yelling and stuff. My Hawkeye and Strange are very fraudulent as you can tell lol.

Your Wright is awesome, I definitely need to make a team around him sometime.

Edit: btw God's Beard I missed your invite earlier today, sorry I was deep in training mode, uploading a combo vid later. I'll definitely play next time.

 

[DeadPhoenix9065]

I don't think giving her two separate transformations is the way to go - that's a lot of work for programmers. I suggested mine because it's probably 1-2 lines of code for Capcom to plop in. Adding two new hypers to her and a bunch of conditionals seems unnecessarily complicated. Beauty through simplicity, I say.

Edit: Also, her health draining is very fair with current X-Factor values. If her health did not drain, Phoenix could lame out a huge portion of the cast with just s.L spam. Something is needed to pressure her to go in.

How would her death explosion not cause a ton of draws?

that's why I stick to art making then programing

I thought you'd agree though. But I get you. Still, I'd like the other rest of the cast say "oh shit" like they did in the vanilla days. More players get annoyed now a days because all the anti crap floating around makes them realize they don't need to be scared.
Ah yeah, she would go and say, "I don't give a **** because I'm Dark Phoenix, so I'm gonna sit her and laugh." lol Ah she would fit in with her origin a bit. Having so much power and just screwing with everyone.
With the drain, I actually would like healing sphere to actually give some more benefit then needing to be up-close all the time. She needs something to help lessen the blow of low health at it's low state. If drain were to stay at least give red health while healing sphere is on so she could get back some fighting ground, and with animated hypers, they say screw it, and kill her anyways, so there is always that way around that.

Oops, forgot about draws. well a long start up would be a quick fix, but sounds like a crappy one. I wouldn't know about that. Ha back to the drawing board.

Just give her self activation on Dark Phoenix with 5 bars. No additional changes required.

I don't understand the last part of the LVL5 Dark Phoenix. That reads like a 600K unblockable explosion on death...

A LVL3 pseudo-Dark Phoenix is unnecessary.

Yeah, when she ran out of life by anyone laming her out, but it wouldn't matter since everyone would get her in a anti setup anyway.
Ha what about if she gets hit with an anti setup since usually they get her before she touches the ground after the transform, so if she got caught in one, she goes boom when she dies just to give everyone around the finger. Only usable if she gets caught in the air after Transforming. Sounds stupid and broken, but just throwing around ideas.

 

[Dahbomb]

So like... how many frames into the assist of Dark Harmonizer does it take before you get the meter? Like if you hit her when she is coming in (which is hard enough as it is) she still gives you meter unless you somehow manage to clip her before she even lands.

 

[Karsticles]

So like... how many frames into the assist of Dark Harmonizer does it take before you get the meter? Like if you hit her when she is coming in (which is hard enough as it is) she still gives you meter unless you somehow manage to clip her before she even lands.

It has to be before her hands start to go up. You basically have to hit her right as she touches the ground. The entire assist is vulnerable for 10 frames.

 

[Dahbomb]

It has to be before her hands start to go up. You basically have to hit her right as she touches the ground. The entire assist is vulnerable for 10 frames.

That's like less than 5 frames you get to actually completely negate the opponent from getting meter even if you clock Morrigan. Need a frame by frame analysis on this.

Does this apply to other meter assists as well or do they only give you meter after a set amount of frames? I know the others are way slower but if you call them out and they get clipped by Disruptor maybe they can still get their desired effect. If not then it's laughable how much superior Dark Harmonizer is compared to the other 2.

 

[SloaneRisette]

More good games to TWILT, I think I found my GAF Marvel rival, lol

Looking back I made a lot of dumb mistakes in my match (and you definitely outplayed me a lot too, especially down to anchor battles). My Ammy is still horrible at the moment, I can sorta do combos in training mode, but when it comes to matches I'm not even close, lol. Gotta work on my motions too, I'm getting QCB instead of DP, which is wack.

Probably going to run Cap/Doom/Ammy now (it's only fitting with a Dr. Doom themed fight stick, anyways). I'll try all of the assists out for Doom and see how they work, but I might try out Bloom too for Ammy. I could always use more meter for Hyper Charging Star.

 

[Karsticles]

That's like less than 5 frames you get to actually completely negate the opponent from getting meter even if you clock Morrigan. Need a frame by frame analysis on this.

Does this apply to other meter assists as well or do they only give you meter after a set amount of frames? I know the others are way slower but if you call them out and they get clipped by Disruptor maybe they can still get their desired effect. If not then it's laughable how much superior Dark Harmonizer is compared to the other 2.

I think the others are comparably fast, they just have massive recovery. There's no reason to ever use anything but Dark Harmonizer, though.

IT HAS BEGUN! THE PATCH TALK!

Just as I'm going to bed. -_- Post a summary for me to check out tomorrow?

 

[Dahbomb]

IT HAS BEGUN! THE PATCH TALK!

 

[Zissou]

More good games to TWILT, I think I found my GAF Marvel rival, lol

Looking back I made a lot of dumb mistakes in my match (and you definitely outplayed me a lot too, especially down to anchor battles). My Ammy is still horrible at the moment, I can sorta do combos in training mode, but when it comes to matches I'm not even close, lol. Gotta work on my motions too, I'm getting QCB instead of DP, which is wack.

Probably going to run Cap/Doom/Ammy now (it's only fitting with a Dr. Doom themed fight stick, anyways). I'll try all of the assists out for Doom and see how they work, but I might try out Bloom too for Ammy. I could always use more meter for Hyper Charging Star.

You should absolutely use cold star for your Ammy assist. It's arguably the best assist in the game for Doom.

 

[Sayah]

FotF loop is really really hard. Frantic made a video that got me to do my first rep ever, maybe he'll be a gem and post it after reading this.

Yeah, I tried it a lot today and was unsuccessful.

The Strange bnb is actually really easy once you get it down. It's all about delaying that first MMH, f.H superjump air series properly. Wait as long as possible between each attack.

Didn't know that. I will try it again.

Ah, bad habit!

I actually just learned I can press R2 instead of two attack buttons. That works better for me.

heck these videos out for Strange/Ammy synergy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-INiL1AnC4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryp8qvcbB8Q

Yeeeess. This stuff is really great and inventive. Getting a lot of ideas from these vids that I'll hopefully eventually implement.

Ammy's meter assist is pure suicide.

I just realized that after I used it today. Morrigan comes and goes. Ammy stays there longer and there's more opportunities to deliver happy b-day's.

 

[SloaneRisette]

You should absolutely use cold star for your Ammy assist. It's arguably the best assist in the game for Doom.

I probably should but I love that meter for Cap, lol. Plus it's always kind of goofy with Cap's Shield Slash OTG, and Cap is my best character by far, so I'm trying to do my best to work in favor of him.

I'll probably stick with Cold Star though, I'm sure a few matches in I'll realize that Bloom was a bad idea, lol.

 

[Sayah]

I'll probably stick with Cold Star though, I'm sure a few matches in I'll realize that Bloom was a bad idea, lol.

Ammy's meter assist is pure suicide.

.

 

[TWILT]

More good games to TWILT, I think I found my GAF Marvel rival, lol

Looking back I made a lot of dumb mistakes in my match (and you definitely outplayed me a lot too, especially down to anchor battles). My Ammy is still horrible at the moment, I can sorta do combos in training mode, but when it comes to matches I'm not even close, lol. Gotta work on my motions too, I'm getting QCB instead of DP, which is wack.

Probably going to run Cap/Doom/Ammy now (it's only fitting with a Dr. Doom themed fight stick, anyways). I'll try all of the assists out for Doom and see how they work, but I might try out Bloom too for Ammy. I could always use more meter for Hyper Charging Star.

Good games haha.

Yeah, your Ammy needs some work, but I don't think mine was much better lol.

I'd suggest sticking with Cold Star for Ammy; real good assist for Doom. Bloom's not a bad option, but Cold Star is so much better.

I need to stop depending on Vergil so much, but I still want to rock a Dante team. Need to practice my stolen Nova/Dante/Strider team some more.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yeah, you'll never be able to do the Faltine loop until you understand why it works, then it's super easy.

 

[Sayah]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";55010712]Yeah, you'll never be able to do the Faltine loop until you understand why it works, then it's super easy.[/QUOTE]

Any explanations?

Also, I'm supposed to be getting work done but I'll play a few matches if anyone wants.

 

[Dahbomb]

Patch talk today covered Haggar, Chris, Spencer, Nova, Doom, Zero, Nemesis, Arthur.

Bias level was an all time high today. Surprisingly Magus was the most reasonable person there today and ShadyK profusely defending stuff that is almost universally considered to be too good whike shitting on characters who barely win anything.

 

[SolarKnight]

What characters have they not done yet?

 

[Dahbomb]

What characters have they not done yet?

Dante, RR, MODOK, Strange, Jill, X23, Felicia, Dormammu, Taskmaster, Ammy, Akuma, Firebrand, Viper, Iron Fist, Captain America, Shuma Gorath, Hulk, Skrull, Joe, Frank West, Wright, Chun Li, Morrigan (they claim that Morrigan is the grand finale).

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

GGs man, that was a lot of fun. I recorded it if you want me to upload the matches. There's alot of me yelling and stuff. My Hawkeye and Strange are very fraudulent as you can tell lol.

If you upload, I will watch it. Especially if you commentated during it, that would make it really interesting to me.

 

[Frantic]

Bias level was an all time high today. Surprisingly Magus was the most reasonable person there today and ShadyK profusely defending stuff that is almost universally considered to be too good whike shitting on characters who barely win anything.

ShadyK loves him some high execution broken stuff, and hates when low execution bops him, basically.

I hate Haggar a lot, but I wouldn't nerf him in a theoretical change list. I'd probably buff him, since I know as a character he's not that great even though I do get bopped by him. Although I do wish the whole game of chicken that Haggar, Hulk and Cap have going for them was removed. Just results in letting them get away with dumb shit.