Support NeoGAF

[Dahbomb]

Doom fulfills a different role on the team than Vergil. Vergil in top level play is the anchor or secondary character for his SS. Doom is pure support on the team.

Both are at the highest category in their role... Vergil is the best anchor in most situations and Doom is the best support. The big difference is that Vergil can win games by himself... Doom in most situations can't he needs other characters to do work.

 

["God's Beard!"]

If we are using the "attached to character" non sense then Vergil has the best LVL1 hyper fucking free. Mostly because he already has an air hyper to DHC out with so he doesn't fucking need aerial Spiral Swords to bail out.

*DHC in Spiral Sword is safe in 90%+ of situations. On block it's 100% safe. I mean technically it's safer than Photon Arrow because Spiral Sword can't be hit by Nova's YOLO hyper or SoV or Viper's hypers.

*DHC after a combo into Spiral Sword is the closest thing we have to a walking DHC glitch in the game. Low damage character lead into TOD because of Spiral Swords.

*With a tracking teleport Vergil with SS can DHC into most hypers in the game

*Spiral Swords loops into itself for high damage.

*Spiral Swords can set up unblockables with a high hitting assist like Nova.

*Spiral Sword allows Vergil to cancel moves into it like Rapid Slash for TODs.

*Spiral Swords negates the neutral game or whatever fucking screen cleaning shit you put out. Photon Array? Shits on that hyper. Shockwave? No. SoV? No. Gimlet? No. Only big time beams can beat it... most projectile hypers get beat by it it even fucking negates EX Seismo.

*Sets up mix ups with Round Trip and assists.

*Sets up lock down situations with RT Glitch and Missiles plus other assists.

*Spiral Sword >>> Ouroborus and Phoenix meaning he counter picks other top anchors and establishes himself as the one true god of anchors.

*Spiral Swords goes into superior formations like Blistering Swords and Storm Swords which further negate any XF anchor characters.


Oh and it's attached to a character who can win games without ever using it.

See, isn't this more fun than watching twitter feeds?

Also, doesn't Gimlet beat it if hawksie is in the air?

 

[GuardianE]

Both are at the highest category in their role... Vergil is the best anchor in most situations and Doom is the best support. The big difference is that Vergil can win games by himself... Doom in most situations can't he needs other characters to do work.

People say this a lot, but anchor Dooms (and not even particularly good Dooms) win so many games in late tournament that it's hard to take it seriously. Yes, Vergil is undoubtedly one of the best anchors, if not the best anchor in the game. Even so, Doom is not the slouch that everyone makes him out to be. If Doom really were a bad point character, it would make his outstanding support role fairer.

Until we see more Hawkeyes and other specific counter Doom characters as anchor, Doom will still be strong in that role, even by himself. And in a game where you can lose a character in the blink of an eye, a counter Doom character certainly isnt a reliable safety blanket.

 

[Dahbomb]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";55459336]See, isn't this more fun than watching twitter feeds?

Also, doesn't Gimlet beat it if hawksie is in the air?[/QUOTE]
I don't have Twitter and I don't watch Twitter feed.

All my Twitter updates come from the FGW thread!

People say this a lot, but anchor Dooms (and not even particularly good Dooms) win so many games in late tournament that it's hard to take it seriously. Yes, Vergil is undoubtedly one of the best anchors, if not the best anchor in the game. Even so, Doom is not the slouch that everyone makes him out to be. If Doom really were a bad point character, it would make his outstanding support role fairer.

I said in most situations. Doom wins games against players who make mistakes and is definitely capable of making comebacks after a single touch similar to Sentinel. He is just not what is considered a top anchor. Most of Doom's wins come from people being forced to use him on anchor... he loses more than he wins in that situation but skill is still required to keep him out/beat him.

 

[Marz]

My vanilla team was sent/storm/doom lol

Haha. Storm and Sent work really well together. Better not ever make a bad assist call against that team.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I wanna see Ray Ray drop Magneto and put Sentinel on point.

 

[onionfrog]

I think spiral swords is the best level 1 super in the game. It effectively stops other people from playing when activated, and is also a great DHC thanks to damaging sword loops.

 

[Marz]

Best Doom anchor strategy is Chris G's. Super jump around until they're dumb enough to jump up and get air thrown.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

Haha. Storm and Sent work really well together. Better not ever make a bad assist call against that team.

Yup, my assist kill was full screen H laser, Cr H Laser, Sentinel Force DHC, IceStorm.

 

[Dahbomb]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";55461428]I wanna see Ray Ray drop Magneto and put Sentinel on point.[/QUOTE]
He says that he would do it if they gave Sentinel a faster fly, better health and his Vanilla launcher back.

Until we see more Hawkeyes and other specific counter Doom characters as anchor, Doom will still be strong in that role, even by himself. And in a game where you can lose a character in the blink of an eye, a counter Doom character certainly isnt a reliable safety blanket.

You don't need Hawkeye to counter Doom, plenty of characters even lower then High tier counter Doom.

Nova, Strange, Dorm, Morrigan, Magneto, Dante, MODOK, Joe, Taskmaster etc all shit on Doom from a tall height. Even Sentinel who is notorious for bad match ups does decently well against Doom.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

I probably wouldn't put Photon Array in the top ten lvl1 hypers either to be honest. It's still a great hyper though.

 

[GuardianE]

You don't need Hawkeye to counter Doom, plenty of characters even lower then High tier counter Doom.

Nova, Strange, Dorm, Morrigan, Magneto, Dante, MODOK, Joe, Taskmaster etc all shit on Doom from a tall height. Even Sentinel who is notorious for bad match ups does decently well against Doom.

I didn't say high tier. I said Doom counters. You listed Doom counters, so I see no reason to disagree. You also don't see most of those characters as anchor.

I think that Doom is a much stronger point character than people talk about. People justify his strong support functionality with his weaker point character utility, but I personally think it's bullshit. Good zoning, divekick, aerial movement, a very powerful airthrow game, great meter building, and solo 100% combos off stray hits. Yes, he's probably weakest on point. That's only because his role as support is absurdly strong.

 

[Dahbomb]

Yeah he's obviously a High tier character by himself and can dish out an absurdly high amount of solo damage.

There is no real justification for him having the best support in the game while having strong point capabilities when other characters don't have both and some don't have even one good thing going for them. I mean maybe it would be justifiable if every character in the game was like Doom, Dante, Strider and Ammy but that isn't the case. Capcom didn't really design the game that way and the players are fine with character falling into their niches.

 

[enzo_gt]

Svens shuts down possibility of a team other than the original UMvC3 team handling source code. This is what usually leads to some terrible ports or mishmashes of games, so it's good that they want their designers to be behind their projects every step of the way.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Anyone wanna play in about 45 minutes?

 

[Solune]

I'll be on at 3 God's Beard.

 

[Azure J]

He says that he would do it if they gave Sentinel a faster fly, better health and his Vanilla launcher back.

What was different about Sent's vanilla launcher?

 

[Dahbomb]

What was different about Sent's vanilla launcher?

It was hyper armor.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I'm pretty sure Trader Joe's made a deal with the devil to sell strawberry licorice at a dollar a bag. Forgive me, lord.

Anyway, I'll be online when my system is done updating.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

It was hyper armor.

I was about to ask the same thing. I think it still does have armor. Not sure though, as it's never been a move I would just throw out, even in vanilla.

And as a guy that plays Doom in every position I'd have to say he can be pretty damn good in all positions but like a lot of shit in this game, it's situational. If I'm down to him as my anchor and I have 3+ bars and xf and I'm only fighting 2 characters (ideal is 1 1/2 though) then I'm still pretty confident. I play him first on my Doom/Dorm/Sentinel team and as long as I don't get opened up right at the beginning then I'm ok. Don't care too much to play him second though, but he can be alright.

And then only character I fear at all is Hawkeye. Yeah there's other characters that give me trouble, but depending on the situation I can at least stand a chance. With Hawkeye, nothing matters....you've probably lost.

 

[Solune]

Sent Launcher still has armor, I throw it out all the time :lol.

 

[Dahbomb]

No now it has one point of super armor. Before you could not physically hit Sentinel out of his launcher at all, he would absorb all hits.

Hyper armor > Super armor

 

[Frantic]

I honestly never even knew Sent's launcher had any type of armor until the UMvC3 change list. The armor starts up super slow, so Sent gets hit out of it a lot anyways.

 

[Zissou]

ShadyK has a weird definition of 'shell.' He just listed powerful duos- to me a shell is a duo you specifically put in slots two and three who offer strong support to your starting point character while ideally remaining a strong duo once your point character dies.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

No now it has one point of super armor. Before you could not physically hit Sentinel out of his launcher at all, he would absorb all hits.

Haha, I don't remember this. I probably still wouldn't use it though.

I have a couple system questions that hopefully someone can answer....if they've encountered them as well. I happy birthday'd someone (forgot what character I was using) and I killed the point character but they didn't drop out of the combo and I was able to easily keep going without adjusting my combo and kill the assist. I believe I killed their point (Dante) with my launch and as I was jumping up to kill the assist, Dante was still getting hit by my air combo. It was weird shit. I was likely playing as Felicia, Nova, Chris, or Dormmamu.

The second situation is something I've noticed on many occasions but can't replicate it. I will catch someone's assist or a happy birthday and after their assist lands and my combo is done, I can still combo the assist once it gets back up to exit the screen. I don't know what the hell causes this but I think it usually happens when I'm playing as Wolverine.

EDIT: Why in the fuck doesn't this game have a replay funtion....holy shit Capcom.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Sorry our connection didn't work out Solune.

GGs to Beats. Sorry about all the weirdness, I'm about to pass out.

 

[Beats]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";55510036]Sorry our connection didn't work out Solune.

GGs to Beats, sorry about all the weirdness. I'm about to pass out.[/QUOTE]

Good games man.

Were you purposely doing swiss cheese a bunch with Wolverine? That threw me off a bit lol.

 

[Dahbomb]

ShadyK has a weird definition of 'shell.' He just listed powerful duos- to me a shell is a duo you specifically put in slots two and three who offer strong support to your starting point character while ideally remaining a strong duo once your point character dies.

What you are talking about is a back heavy shell. A front heavy shell is like Zero/Dante. You can add an anchor to that team and the team would be excellent. Or a shell like Viper and Strider is literally a shell... you just have to put something in the middle of it.

There is no rule that shells have to be #2 and #3 slot characters.

 

[Karsticles]

No now it has one point of super armor. Before you could not physically hit Sentinel out of his launcher at all, he would absorb all hits.

Hyper armor > Super armor

I just want to reaffirm that Dahbomb is right on this. When Vanilla was released, I played point Sentinel, and I started a lot of rounds with s.S + Dark Hole because it was safe, a frame trap, and beat EVERYTHING. Sentinel's launcher had infinite armor in Vanilla, nothing beat it. For some reason Capcpom decided to nerf it in Ultimate.

Good games man.

Were you purposely doing swiss cheese a bunch with Wolverine? That threw me off a bit lol.

lol

 

["God's Beard!"]

I mash the fuck out of buttons online, especially bad connections lol

Hey karst I landed a Biohazard Rush and Tron's level 3 :-o

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";55524760]I mash the fuck out of buttons online, especially bad connections lol

Hey karst I landed a Biohazard Rush and Tron's level 3 :-o[/QUOTE]
Land the Nemesis level 3 and I'll be impressed! I think that's the most embarrassing way to die in the game, right next to calling Phoenix as an assist and having her get bopped when you have 5 bars and getting grabbed by Tron's level 3 while you have Dark Phoenix.

Spoiler

<3 Viscant.

Oh yeah, and for anyone who cares about what's going on in my life: I just got my last rejection from my Ph.D programs after being waitlisted for a while. My wife and I plan on moving to Colorado because Chicago is ass. So, if anyone is around Colorado, see you there, and hook me up with locals. I have to figure out a new path in life after wasting a bunch of time (2 years) and money ($80,000) on my MA program.

 

[Beats]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";55524760]I mash the fuck out of buttons online, especially bad connections lol

Hey karst I landed a Biohazard Rush and Tron's level 3 :-o[/QUOTE]

I can't believe I got hit by that. >_<

yeah, the connection wasn't too great. I was mashing quite a bit too lol. It got a little better midway though..

-

edit: I'm liking Captain America with Molecular Shield assist, but Doom is kind of boring. Anyone know what are some good assists for him?

 

[PKrockin]

So... I played this for like 8 hours on my 360 (no Gold) before I gave it away and thought it was pretty fun unlike most other fighters I've tried. I didn't even know about Heroes and Heralds until afterwards. I was thinking of getting the Vita version.

I want to play a team of

Spoiler

Phoenix Wright, Ryu and Amaterasu

, and I have no fighting game experience and no way to play online most days, going up against an experienced community, how boned am I?

 

[Karsticles]

So... I played this for like 8 hours on my 360 (no Gold) before I gave it away and thought it was pretty fun unlike most other fighters I've tried. I didn't even know about Heroes and Heralds until afterwards. I was thinking of getting the Vita version.

I want to play a team of

Spoiler

Phoenix Wright, Ryu and Amaterasu

, and I have no fighting game experience and no way to play online most days, going up against an experienced community, how boned am I?

Super boned, but we're here to help you remember to wear protection.

I can't believe I got hit by that. >_<

yeah, the connection wasn't too great. I was mashing quite a bit too lol. It got a little better midway though..

-

edit: I'm liking Captain America with Molecular Shield assist, but Doom is kind of boring. Anyone know what are some good assists for him?

Captain America + Unibeam = THE BEST.

 

[FSLink]

So I'm really liking using Zero/Frank West/Vergil. I lose Jam Session mixups but getting Lv4/Lv5 Frank off of any hit is pretty nice, and gives Vergil a nice assist if needed too.

 

[smurfx]

Land the Nemesis level 3 and I'll be impressed! I think that's the most embarrassing way to die in the game, right next to calling Phoenix as an assist and having her get bopped when you have 5 bars and getting grabbed by Tron's level 3 while you have Dark Phoenix.

Spoiler

<3 Viscant.

Oh yeah, and for anyone who cares about what's going on in my life: I just got my last rejection from my Ph.D programs after being waitlisted for a while. My wife and I plan on moving to Colorado because Chicago is ass. So, if anyone is around Colorado, see you there, and hook me up with locals. I have to figure out a new path in life after wasting a bunch of time (2 years) and money ($80,000) on my MA program.

i think chavelo lives in colorado so ask him if there is any scene there.

 

[Frantic]

lol, is Angelic picking up Karst's new team?

 

[Karsticles]

lol, is Angelic picking up Karst's new team?

GOD DAMN IT. I avoided Wolverine because I didn't want to copy him. -_-

Holy shit that tech is nice, though.

Edit: Ooohhhh. I checked his history and see that he liked Solune's video. So, he is officially copying off of me, because the video that Solune made as a result of my incompetence with combo creation resulted in Angelic checking that video out. Mmm hmm.

Edit: Holy crap that combo is +1.3 net meter. That means I could potentially end every single Firebrand combo with enough meter to pop out Stalking Flare for him. :-O

Edit3: I scoured his Youtube and found the XF3 combo I have been hoping to find:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhYDkesAc7A

JOY.

 

[PKrockin]

Ah, to hell with it. I bought it. If you see some scrub seemingly acting at complete random it's probably me.

 

[Dahbomb]

Cue Firebrand is top tier gif.

 

[Zissou]

Who can you raw tag in to continue the combo after Firebrand kidnap? Do you need a normal with a certain minimum start-up or anything for it to work?

 

[AnkiRendan]

So... I played this for like 8 hours on my 360 (no Gold) before I gave it away and thought it was pretty fun unlike most other fighters I've tried. I didn't even know about Heroes and Heralds until afterwards. I was thinking of getting the Vita version.

I want to play a team of

Spoiler

Phoenix Wright, Ryu and Amaterasu

, and I have no fighting game experience and no way to play online most days, going up against an experienced community, how boned am I?

You have good taste, sir. I'm no good at this either, so if you ever want to play, let me know. I was trying to learn Phoenix Wright combos today and I just struggled with the timing...

 

[Ghazi]

Question: Is it feasible

Spoiler

possible

to do Doom TAC infinites online (against players with a stable connection, of course)?

 

[Frantic]

Dead body glitch is the best glitch.

Who can you raw tag in to continue the combo after Firebrand kidnap? Do you need a normal with a certain minimum start-up or anything for it to work?

I think it has to do with a combination of raw tag recovery frames + fast, high hitstun normal. I've never been able to figure it out myself, and I've never gotten it consistent enough to where I consider it feasible.

 

[smurfx]

Dead body glitch is the best glitch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaRBHQlEu-o

 

[Solune]

edit: I'm liking Captain America with Molecular Shield assist, but Doom is kind of boring. Anyone know what are some good assists for him?

Unibeam as Karst said, Drones, Vajra. They all allow Captain America to Charging Star somewhat safely. Unibeam being the best because you get full conversions from Charging Star H and M and if it's blocked is nearly completely safe outside of certain supers / x-factor.

Personally when I'm "trolling" I like Iron Fist Rising Fang and Nova Centurion Rush.

So I'm really liking using Zero/Frank West/Vergil. I lose Jam Session mixups but getting Lv4/Lv5 Frank off of any hit is pretty nice, and gives Vergil a nice assist if needed too.

I was trying Zero/Frank West for sometime trying to level up, what's your setup or do you use TAC? Sounds like Rekkouha DHC Tools > whiff > Jump up Knee Drop > picture?

Oh yeah, and for anyone who cares about what's going on in my life: I just got my last rejection from my Ph.D programs after being waitlisted for a while. My wife and I plan on moving to Colorado because Chicago is ass. So, if anyone is around Colorado, see you there, and hook me up with locals. I have to figure out a new path in life after wasting a bunch of time (2 years) and money ($80,000) on my MA program.

Like we were discussing, take your time and also good luck on any future endeavors.

GOD DAMN IT. I avoided Wolverine because I didn't want to copy him. -_-

Holy shit that tech is nice, though.

Edit: Ooohhhh. I checked his history and see that he liked Solune's video. So, he is officially copying off of me, because the video that Solune made as a result of my incompetence with combo creation resulted in Angelic checking that video out. Mmm hmm.

Edit: Holy crap that combo is +1.3 net meter. That means I could potentially end every single Firebrand combo with enough meter to pop out Stalking Flare for him. :-O

Edit3: I scoured his Youtube and found the XF3 combo I have been hoping to find:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhYDkesAc7A

JOY.

lol, that's cool that he actually watched my video!! But he states his source from this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcd2Vk2tXo4

Also I was trying rawtag tech from Mystic Stare to Dorm but yah, seems to be incompatible. You can rawtag to Firebrand > Bon Voyage x 2 to setup your unblockable though. Assuming you start off with Shuma comboing of course.

Who can you raw tag in to continue the combo after Firebrand kidnap? Do you need a normal with a certain minimum start-up or anything for it to work?

Should work with most people with an OTG + assist, Unless you're referring to the rawtag combo that was just posted then yes, you'll need a character with a fast tag-in recovery and relatively fast normal.

 

[Zissou]

Dead body glitch is the best glitch.

I think it has to do with a combination of raw tag recovery frames + fast, high hitstun normal. I've never been able to figure it out myself, and I've never gotten it consistent enough to where I consider it feasible.

Ahh, I was just curious. Zak Bennett apparently does it consistently with Doom, no? I haven't seen footage of him since he switched teams.

Also, I've been messing around with Doom+jam session, and it seems really good compared with weasel shot (aside from the additional damage scaling), especially because it actually has some substantial projectile durability (how many low durability points does it have again?). Quick question: does jam session work well for alpha countering in?

 

[PKrockin]

You have good taste, sir. I'm no good at this either, so if you ever want to play, let me know. I was trying to learn Phoenix Wright combos today and I just struggled with the timing...

Fellow PW and Amaterasu fan? Awesome. I was finding it tough to use Ammy on the 360 because you have to switch weapons quickly. Sure I'll play you once I get these different controls figured out. Seems to be no way to set L+M+H without giving up something...

My PSN tag is KaizoMario.

Damn this game is good on the Vita. Way better d-pad than 360 or PS3, looks great on the OLED, and no input lag.

Spoiler

port okami to the vita already capcom, please

 

[Ghazi]

Fellow PW and Amaterasu fan? Awesome. I was finding it tough to use Ammy on the 360 because you have to switch weapons quickly. Sure I'll play you once I get these different controls figured out. Seems to be no way to set L+M+H without giving up something...

Once you get used to the motions it's much easier to do. Really Glaive is the main thing you'll want to be able to switch to.

 

[Frantic]

Ahh, I was just curious. Zak Bennett apparently does it consistently with Doom, no? I haven't seen footage of him since he switched teams.

I've seen people do it consistently, but I kinda suck at combos so...

Also, I've been messing around with Doom+jam session, and it seems really good compared with weasel shot (aside from the additional damage scaling), especially because it actually has some substantial projectile durability (how many low durability points does it have again?). Quick question: does jam session work well for alpha countering in?

10 frames x 3 low durability points.

As for Alpha Countering... no idea, really. Never really tried it.