Karsticles
Member
And I can't answer the Nemesis vs. Tron question because there are no good Nemesis players, while there's Al_Rikir and Abegen for Tron.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Karsticles
Member
Yet if KaneBlueRiver didn't exist, you would probably rank Hulk lower. There are no good Thor or Nemesis players.
I have ranked Hulk as the best heavy since forever. Even before UMVC3 came out. Although being the best of the heavies still doesn't mean much. I am only unsure about bottom 3 and #2 after Hulk.
I would agree that there are no good Thor players using optimized Thor teams.
JeTmAn81
Member
I think Haggar has supplanted Hulk for the heavyweight title. His mixups are the best. Then again, there are a lot more good Haggar players.
BTW, if I wrote a web-based system that walks you through picking a Marvel team (point, assists, synergy) does that sound like something anyone would find useful?
Karsticles
Member
Professor Beef
Banned
Hulk > Haggar if only for the fact that Haggar has to put the controller down when fighting Magneto.
I think Hulk is better than Haggar for the following reasons:
*Can get in easier. Armored Gamma Charge can power through any single hitting projectile or normal plus put the fear of Hulk in them.
*Has more armored moves up close. Haggar has to use Lariat to make the opponent respect him.
*Hulk has a durable projectile with which he can play a semi-zoning game (or just chip out an opponent if they are on a pixel). Haggar has no such tool which means against some of the other heavies Hulk has an additional tool to use. Plus the fear of Gamma Wave on assists really makes opponents think twice about using it.
*Hulk has better solo damage and combos. While they both TOD from most hits Haggar usually requires a bit more.
*Better hypers. Hulk has a long ranged hyper, a semi safe hyper and an invincible high damage hyper.
*Hulk controls a bigger portion of the screen. He has long ass armored normals that take up a huge portion of the screen.
Haggar has a superior assist, slightly better aerial options (air to air command throws), better resets and better ground throw game.
Skrull UMVC3 Changes
■Stone Dunk hit box has been increased.
■Orbital Grudge floats higher.
■Obrital Grudge super armor activates faster.
■Meteor Smash can be activated in the air.
■Death Penalty automatically brings you over the opponent.
■Number of hits in Inferno (ground and air ver.) can be increased through rapid button presses.
seems more like buffs than nerfs
■Stone Dunk hit box has been increased.
■Orbital Grudge floats higher.
■Obrital Grudge super armor activates faster.
■Meteor Smash can be activated in the air.
■Death Penalty automatically brings you over the opponent.
■Number of hits in Inferno (ground and air ver.) can be increased through rapid button presses.
seems more like buffs than nerfs
"God's Beard!"
Member
But it doesn't come from the heart anymore.
JeTmAn81
Member
Like that, but interactive.
Karsticles
Member
I can't see myself using that, and I'm not sure how you'd be able to pull it off. Maybe if it were closer to the game's release, it would be a big deal, or if we got an expansion announced...
They changed his dialogue when he does Inferno so that's the nerf.
JeTmAn81
Member
It would be aimed a lot more at beginners than people who already know the game (they should already know how to pick teams). I think some people would find it a lot easier to simply answer questions about how they want to play and have some options laid out for them automatically rather than having to digest a bunch of information first and then make decisions.
I would probably have it ask a series of questions aimed at narrowing down the player's preferences for a point character (zoning, heavy/grappler, Marvel character, Capcom character), and then have pre-stored data on tap for the kind of assists/DHC's that would build synergy with that character. I was thinking of displaying a variety of character attributes to pick from, and then narrow down the available attributes based on what can be found in a single character. The original idea came from the sense I get from Marvel that each character is special because they possess a unique distribution of basic abilities available to characters in the game (air dashes, armored moves, projectiles, etc.). So it's almost like being able to customize a character with the abilities that you want from them, and then a character already in the game would fit your customization.
Dunno. It would be a lot of work, and I probably will never end up doing it, but it just seemed like it could be a fun project.
Karsticles
Member
I just wonder how many beginners are coming in this late.
JeTmAn81
Member
Probably not many...this game is not friendly to beginners at all :/ But there has to be somebody.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Is it just me or is it really sad that Strange's projectile counter doesn't counter Gimlet?
The Mango Sentinel
Member
It makes me sad that nemesis doesn't need much to be a whole lot better. It's still fun to kill an assist with tk rockets though.
Morrigan/Iron Man/Doom is actually a really sick team.
If want to play Iron Man, the question you should ask yourself is "how can my team utilize Unibeam assist, Proton Cannon THC, and TAC infinites?" He's a support character through and through, and a decent anchor because he becomes a real threat in LVL 3 X Factor with super fast high lows and meterless kills, and if you can get a life lead he's sitting pretty.
Iron Man sucks but he's not unviablely bad like people make him out to be. You just really got to make sure your first two characters do work with Unibeam or he's back by Drones or Missiles.
Iron Man is a bad pick because Doom exists, otherwise he would be in high demand. People would put with him like they put with Sentinel.
To all the Vanilla Morrigan players out there.... could Morrigan juggle you with 13 fireballs in Vanilla like she can in Ultimate? Granted we had little experience with the character but I never saw that happen in Vanilla. I have to imagine the hit stun on the fireballs was increased.
To all the Vanilla Morrigan players out there.... could Morrigan juggle you with 13 fireballs in Vanilla like she can in Ultimate? Granted we had little experience with the character but I never saw that happen in Vanilla. I have to imagine the hit stun on the fireballs was increased.
Karsticles
Member
I anchored her, but I'm not sure. This is what changed with Soul Fist in Ultimate:
1) Hitstun increased.
2) Now effected by hitstun decay.
Yea I don't think juggling characters to death with fireballs was a feature of Vanilla Morrigan. Man such a harmless change on paper but when you factor in AV it changes a lot. Same for the increased damage on Soul Fist, it didn't seem like a lot at first but those fireballs add up quickly.
Whenever Champ was on balance discussion for zoners he was very passive with them. Said that if you give them a cookie they might bite off the hand as well. Viscant said the same thing, like he said that if Trish got a better projectile/zoning game she might become too good due to her match ups. Actually I don't know if it was Viscant who said this but some top player said it.
Whenever Champ was on balance discussion for zoners he was very passive with them. Said that if you give them a cookie they might bite off the hand as well. Viscant said the same thing, like he said that if Trish got a better projectile/zoning game she might become too good due to her match ups. Actually I don't know if it was Viscant who said this but some top player said it.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Trish would say "no you cannot" to the majority of the cast with higher durability alone.
I popped in vanilla to give it a shot, and I can't juggle past the initial volley. I can at least get two reps in Ultimate. Additionally, it doesn't seem like her jump fireball loops work in vanilla - they pop out too fast.
Another thing to remember is vanilla Morrigan's flight had 15 frames of startup, and it's now down to 11. Might not seem like much, but does tack on additional time for her before she can fire her projectiles.
Edit: Holy shit Footdive is ASS in vanilla. I forgot how slow it moved.
Also, RIP vanilla UI.
Edit 2: RIP Iron-Man flight plink dash. You never saw the light of day. ;_;
Another thing to remember is vanilla Morrigan's flight had 15 frames of startup, and it's now down to 11. Might not seem like much, but does tack on additional time for her before she can fire her projectiles.
Edit: Holy shit Footdive is ASS in vanilla. I forgot how slow it moved.
Also, RIP vanilla UI.
Edit 2: RIP Iron-Man flight plink dash. You never saw the light of day. ;_;
One more tidbit about vanilla Morrigan that I noticed. She can't plink dash while in flight, for some reason. Kinda weird.
"God's Beard!"
Member
And Iron Man's air dashes were even better pre-release. Crazy fast.
I remember coming back from the Ultimate stations at EVO 2011 and Killa Sasa asked me about Iron Man. I just didn't know how to break it to him.
I remember coming back from the Ultimate stations at EVO 2011 and Killa Sasa asked me about Iron Man. I just didn't know how to break it to him.
NHarmonic.
Member
Played for the first time yesterday, for like 4 hours and it was a lot of fun. I ended up using Trish, Dante and Wesker for the most part. Amateratsu was brutal though, that special attack is epic xD
Also, is Chris used competitively? Really curious about it, i couldn't get the hang of playing with him at all...
Also, is Chris used competitively? Really curious about it, i couldn't get the hang of playing with him at all...
Yes, a Chris player recently put the best player in the world at the game into the losers bracket, and his Chris did a lot of the lifting too.
Chris is used competitively (but sparsely) and is a solid character but needs assists and good match awareness to play properly.
NHarmonic.
Member
Wow, i'm impressed :O
You guys use him on your teams, by the way?
I guess i could look up for some videos of competitions. I want to see Jill and Nemesis in action so bad, RE3 is my childhood... (they weren't unlocked when i played :/).
Professor Beef
Banned
Look up "GC Yoshi" and "LLND." Those are two of the most well-known Chris users...and possibly the only ones, I dunno.
EDIT: I forgot that Bum uses him, too.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
There's always Señor Ass Taxi
Nemesis is a bad character for competitive play but he stomps hard at casual level. He's easy to play though. Jill is a very hard character to play for beginners.
You should play Chris and Wesker with Strider. Strider is not that easy but the assist would be great for your team. You can get a full combo off of Vajra assist with both characters and it covers the air space so you can plant mines on the ground to limit their options.
I had a Chris team a long time ago. It was Chris/Dante/Iron Man in Vanilla. Team was fine but my play was garbage with it.
You should play Chris and Wesker with Strider. Strider is not that easy but the assist would be great for your team. You can get a full combo off of Vajra assist with both characters and it covers the air space so you can plant mines on the ground to limit their options.
I had a Chris team a long time ago. It was Chris/Dante/Iron Man in Vanilla. Team was fine but my play was garbage with it.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Oh god I'm having so much fun with raw tag combos right now
Spencer's command grab, raw tag to Nova, Centurion Rush L xx Power of the Nova Force DHC Round Harvest, raw tag to Nova, Energy Javelin, raw tag to Spencer, Bionic Arm, OTG Grapple, zip zip 80k, raw tag to Nova, Slant Shot assist + Centurion Rush L x-factor air Nova Strike H, raw tag to Spencer, Armor Piercer xx Bionic Arm DHC Round Harvest, raw tag to Spencer, 80k, raw tag to Nova, Centurion Rush L
doesn't even kill :3
Spencer's command grab, raw tag to Nova, Centurion Rush L xx Power of the Nova Force DHC Round Harvest, raw tag to Nova, Energy Javelin, raw tag to Spencer, Bionic Arm, OTG Grapple, zip zip 80k, raw tag to Nova, Slant Shot assist + Centurion Rush L x-factor air Nova Strike H, raw tag to Spencer, Armor Piercer xx Bionic Arm DHC Round Harvest, raw tag to Spencer, 80k, raw tag to Nova, Centurion Rush L
doesn't even kill :3
Killa Sasa
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";56858210]And Iron Man's air dashes were even better pre-release. Crazy fast.
I remember coming back from the Ultimate stations at EVO 2011 and Killa Sasa asked me about Iron Man. I just didn't know how to break it to him.[/QUOTE]
Seriously didn't believe you (and everyone else who had said the same for months) until I played him myself.
The disappointment T_T The celebrity superhero relegated to what ultimately turns out to be a support role.
If Parker wasn't pretty solid I'd be out of options, as fun as Captain is for theory-busting.
I remember coming back from the Ultimate stations at EVO 2011 and Killa Sasa asked me about Iron Man. I just didn't know how to break it to him.[/QUOTE]
Seriously didn't believe you (and everyone else who had said the same for months) until I played him myself.
The disappointment T_T The celebrity superhero relegated to what ultimately turns out to be a support role.
If Parker wasn't pretty solid I'd be out of options, as fun as Captain is for theory-busting.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Oh god someone throw their opponent into Trish's trap assist with Spencer's command grab right now. Tell me I'm not the only one that sees how dumb that animation looks 
Yeah I remember saying something like "I dunno maybe I'm remembering wrong but he seemed slower".
lol that easy break of bad news
Yeah I remember saying something like "I dunno maybe I'm remembering wrong but he seemed slower".
lol that easy break of bad news
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";56872396]Oh god someone throw their opponent into Trish's trap assist with Spencer's command grab right now. Tell me I'm not the only one that sees how dumb that animation looks [/QUOTE]"No one's going to see it, don't worry about animating it better."
Go for Smash Kick and watch him completely whiff the kick.
[/QUOTE]"No one's going to see it, don't worry about animating it better."Go for Smash Kick and watch him completely whiff the kick.
"God's Beard!"
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";56858210]And Iron Man's air dashes were even better pre-release. Crazy fast.
I remember coming back from the Ultimate stations at EVO 2011 and Killa Sasa asked me about Iron Man. I just didn't know how to break it to him.[/QUOTE]
Was his ground dash better though? Could he cancel into normals earlier? His current air dash is perfectly find for his skillset, its his shitty ground dash that really hurts him.
I remember coming back from the Ultimate stations at EVO 2011 and Killa Sasa asked me about Iron Man. I just didn't know how to break it to him.[/QUOTE]
Was his ground dash better though? Could he cancel into normals earlier? His current air dash is perfectly find for his skillset, its his shitty ground dash that really hurts him.
If IM at least had his Vanilla air dashes his mobility would at least be on par with Doom in that he could at least move across horizontally quickly. He wouldn't just be a big moving target for people to smack down. Characters can live without good ground mobility if they have good air mobility.
oh.. THAT.. lol! you gotta be kidding me.
Karsticles
Member
I dropped him entirely for this reason.
Vanilla Iron Man was easily bottom ten, he was absolute garbage.
Ultimate Iron Man isn't that good either, but he's leaps and bounds ahead of where he used to be. People are in love with Iron Man's vanilla air dash when its all he had going for him, everything that is essential for playing a good neutral game in Ultimate (converting into bnb from max range c.M, s.H, superjump height confirms off j.H xx ADF, repulsor actually auto-correcting correctly) was impossible in Vanilla.
He desperately needs a better ground dash, his air dash is fine.
I don't think he was bottom 10 but he certainly wasn't good. They fixed a lot of issues with him and took away one of his biggest strength... tridash j.M. You could bully and open up a lot of characters with it as your sole means of offense.
Iron Man wasn't bottom 10 because there were some really bad characters in Vanilla. Vanilla Ryu, Chris, Cap, Thor, Chun Li, Arthur, Hsien Ko were pretty awful.
Iron Man wasn't bottom 10 because there were some really bad characters in Vanilla. Vanilla Ryu, Chris, Cap, Thor, Chun Li, Arthur, Hsien Ko were pretty awful.
The problem with tridash j.M was that Iron Man's hit confirms were shit in vanilla. The krispy kreme bnb didn't exist in the same that it does in Ultimate so you had to go for c.M, S confirms, which were absolute garbage as S is death on whiff or block.
ADD j.H to control space works better than j.M mixups for Iron Man's gameplan anyway. I guess its just annoying that people still think Iron Man was better in vanilla or was somehow nerfed. Its not the case at all, he was much worse in that game than he is in Ultimate. Despite still being a low tier character he was probably one of the mot buffed characters in Ultimate.
ADD doesn't get you into position to do mix ups, tridash j.M does. Iron Man's horizontal movement sucks whether on the ground or in the air... before it only used to suck on the ground.
Also I am not saying he was better in Vanilla.. being Low Mid in that game meant you were pretty bad. Being low mid in Ultimate means you can at least somewhat compete because a lot of mid tiers can wreck teams. Plus different meta game and such.
Current Iron Man with Vanilla air dashes and/or proper ground dash would be around Nova/Trish tier. Better than Storm but worse than Magneto/Doom. Considering Mag/Doom is like top 5 and are OP, being High tier like Trish/Nova is very respectable.
Also I am not saying he was better in Vanilla.. being Low Mid in that game meant you were pretty bad. Being low mid in Ultimate means you can at least somewhat compete because a lot of mid tiers can wreck teams. Plus different meta game and such.
Current Iron Man with Vanilla air dashes and/or proper ground dash would be around Nova/Trish tier. Better than Storm but worse than Magneto/Doom. Considering Mag/Doom is like top 5 and are OP, being High tier like Trish/Nova is very respectable.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";56872118]Oh god I'm having so much fun with raw tag combos right now
Spencer's command grab, raw tag to Nova, Centurion Rush L xx Power of the Nova Force DHC Round Harvest, raw tag to Nova, Energy Javelin, raw tag to Spencer, Bionic Arm, OTG Grapple, zip zip 80k, raw tag to Nova, Slant Shot assist + Centurion Rush L x-factor air Nova Strike H, raw tag to Spencer, Armor Piercer xx Bionic Arm DHC Round Harvest, raw tag to Spencer, 80k, raw tag to Nova, Centurion Rush
doesn't even kill :3[/QUOTE]
That sounds fucking silly...but I think I wanna try it. I like how I've been playing this game since it came out and I'll still occasionally hear a win quote I've never heard. Dunno how I missed Deadpools quote to Dante but somehow I just heard it today
Spencer's command grab, raw tag to Nova, Centurion Rush L xx Power of the Nova Force DHC Round Harvest, raw tag to Nova, Energy Javelin, raw tag to Spencer, Bionic Arm, OTG Grapple, zip zip 80k, raw tag to Nova, Slant Shot assist + Centurion Rush L x-factor air Nova Strike H, raw tag to Spencer, Armor Piercer xx Bionic Arm DHC Round Harvest, raw tag to Spencer, 80k, raw tag to Nova, Centurion Rush
doesn't even kill :3[/QUOTE]
That sounds fucking silly...but I think I wanna try it. I like how I've been playing this game since it came out and I'll still occasionally hear a win quote I've never heard. Dunno how I missed Deadpools quote to Dante but somehow I just heard it today