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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Face it Tiger..
Banned
Yipes Demi-god tier confirmed 
Viper is not the best theoretical character especially in the current meta where Zero, Magneto and Morrigan with Missiles dictate the pace of the game. I think in the current meta Viper without Jam Session/Vajra is not going to win anything. Unknown has leveled up greatly but his team is just really off. He has to burn meter/XF just to safely tag in Viper from Sentinel. With those assists she is definitely top 5 and one of the best Vergil killers in the game.
Doom is the BEST support character in the game, its not even up for debate. If we were to judge tiers based on teams, there is no doubt Doom is the best character in the game. However Doom is not as big of a threat as the characters he supports... he is only as good as the best character in the game.
Vergil is the best practical anchor character and the easiest to use. While on paper a Dark Phoenix is more powerful than Vergil in various situations, Vergil just does similar stuff with fewer resources and less restrictions on the team... hence why he is more "practical". Strider provides a nice balance of top anchor and top assist so that's why he remains relevant.
The best overall point character is Zero. No requirement to TAC to kill, no requirement to XF and kill with minimal effort on an optimized team. Can play an excellent neutral game, can literally toss coins at you from mid screen away, can convert off of Vajra (difficult but doable), has a scary incoming game that leads to more characters dead, can zone and is a big problem for rushdown only characters like Zero/Spencer because of his normals. The biggest hurdle that Zero players have had to cross was in fact Morrigan. You could see Flux how close he came to taking out ChrisG but eventually succumbed. People overstate how rough zoning is for Zero when in fact... its rough for pretty much any character in the same situation.
Doom is the BEST support character in the game, its not even up for debate. If we were to judge tiers based on teams, there is no doubt Doom is the best character in the game. However Doom is not as big of a threat as the characters he supports... he is only as good as the best character in the game.
Vergil is the best practical anchor character and the easiest to use. While on paper a Dark Phoenix is more powerful than Vergil in various situations, Vergil just does similar stuff with fewer resources and less restrictions on the team... hence why he is more "practical". Strider provides a nice balance of top anchor and top assist so that's why he remains relevant.
The best overall point character is Zero. No requirement to TAC to kill, no requirement to XF and kill with minimal effort on an optimized team. Can play an excellent neutral game, can literally toss coins at you from mid screen away, can convert off of Vajra (difficult but doable), has a scary incoming game that leads to more characters dead, can zone and is a big problem for rushdown only characters like Zero/Spencer because of his normals. The biggest hurdle that Zero players have had to cross was in fact Morrigan. You could see Flux how close he came to taking out ChrisG but eventually succumbed. People overstate how rough zoning is for Zero when in fact... its rough for pretty much any character in the same situation.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I've always said you were the best theory fighter here. I'm just better than Dahbomb. I haven't watched anything since I'm on vacation for the next week but congrats on your team doing well!
The team did work, but Champ failed the team.
Karsticles
Member
My team won, FChamp lost.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";58191906]I've always said you were the best theory fighter here. I'm just better than Dahbomb. I haven't watched anything since I'm on vacation for the next week but congrats on your team doing well![/QUOTE]
Where are you on vacation at? IMO, the FChamp vs. ChrisG set is definitely worth watching. I was irate with the decisions Champ was making.
Well FChamp used the team against ShadyK in long sets and was losing more times. Granted ShadyK was mentally prepared and Champ wasn't playing the team in optimal fashion... its still a team with holes and fallacies that will crumble in the long run. ChrisG going to the lab and getting some prep time will download and destroy the team in convincing fashion next time.
Also as an aside... I think Champ really needs an actual anti-Wolverine team not this Plasma Beam/Phoenix non sense. He basically lost two matches against Wolverine players. And yea that PRRog match was a throw... it was too blatant.
Also as an aside... I think Champ really needs an actual anti-Wolverine team not this Plasma Beam/Phoenix non sense. He basically lost two matches against Wolverine players. And yea that PRRog match was a throw... it was too blatant.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
The team did fine. FChamp fucked up.
Karsticles
Member
Like I've always said, I watch Marvel to learn things. I tuned out during the PR Balrog vs. FChamp matches. There is no anti-Wolverine team aside from Haggar assist. Wolverine is probably the best point character in the game.
Dormammu/Morrigan/Phoenix has a ton of problems, but ChrisG's team is not one of them. ChrisG's team has 2 characters that are 100% free to Stalking Flare, and he has no projectile assists to mess up Dormammu's keepaway game when he gets bars. I don't think it's entirely an answer to FChamp's team, though, since Soul Drain combos are still such a problem for Phoenix. ChrisG was too generous in his willingness to chip Phoenix out. I'm curious what holes you think the team has in the matchup, though.
Karsticles
Member
Haggar and Hulk have nothing on Wolverine. As long as the Wolverine player doesn't derp into Double Lariat or s.H, it's a won state for him. I'd say Zero is roughly even with Wolverine. His hitboxes are better, but his movement is awkward (something people rarely talk about).
You don't even need Lariat although that's always great against Wolverine. Any character that will make Wolverine scared of pressing buttons is good against him. That includes Hulk and Zero as well. Viper too if you are godlike with her. Also while not used in that position, Doom is actually very solid against Wolverine as is Taskmaster (great OS, great anti air,s, jump H). I also really like Nova against Wolverine and I like Amaterasu (although not played in that position). Trish and Joe do great against Wolverine too if your defense is on point. Among the lower tiers Chun Li is solid against her as is Jill. A Chris when set up is a nightmare for Wolverine to deal with. A smart Vergil player will beat Wolverine by properly anti airing him and stuffing his approaches with superior normals then have him block some Spiral Sword pressure. On paper Magneto should beat Wolverine because of superior mobility and plink Mag Blasts but just like against Haggar Magneto players fuck up their dashes and get clipped in mid air.
Thing is that aside from Magneto and Doom, Champ has no characters that can control Wolverine and he doesn't have an assist aside from Plasma Beam. He has Phoenix if she has bars but if Wolverine gets first touch he will snap in and she is a free character. So that's why has to play his Plasma Beam and Phoenix team. I guess there is always Ghost Rider...lololol
Oh I forgot the big one.... LVL4 Frank is super free vs Wolverine. If Wesker had his Vanilla counter, him with Haggar would really do a number on Wolverine as well.
Thing is that aside from Magneto and Doom, Champ has no characters that can control Wolverine and he doesn't have an assist aside from Plasma Beam. He has Phoenix if she has bars but if Wolverine gets first touch he will snap in and she is a free character. So that's why has to play his Plasma Beam and Phoenix team. I guess there is always Ghost Rider...lololol
Oh I forgot the big one.... LVL4 Frank is super free vs Wolverine. If Wesker had his Vanilla counter, him with Haggar would really do a number on Wolverine as well.
Theoretically speaking, Dante vs Wolverine should be like 7-3 in Dante's favor even with any assists Wolverine can use. All of his tools cause tons of problems for Wolverine - all his normals out range Wolverine so the speed of them doesn't really matter, all of his specials are virtually impenetrable by Wolverine without assists and even with assist he still has to maneuver around them, etc - and Wolverine doesn't really have any way to deal with Dante's offensive pressure once he gets going. On paper, it looks greatly in Dante's favor.
Then you play the matchup and Wolverine shouts "UNACCEPTABLE" and all that theory goes out the window because you realize stuff on paper does not take into account human limitations. It's the same reason why Wolverine generally steam rolls through other bad matchups like Zero, Viper, Magneto, etc.
Then you play the matchup and Wolverine shouts "UNACCEPTABLE" and all that theory goes out the window because you realize stuff on paper does not take into account human limitations. It's the same reason why Wolverine generally steam rolls through other bad matchups like Zero, Viper, Magneto, etc.
I don't know if there's a reason Flocker plays Hawkeye, but he should drop him and pick a similar horizontal assist. I mean he does maul alot of the competition already, but I'm confident he would obliterate people with Zero May Cry or a similar horizontal assist attached to better character.
crimsonspider89
Banned
The speed of Hawkeye's assist plus Hawkeye being able to maul a lot of the airdashers.
Fchamp did well with Karst's team, despite terrible choking with Phoenix, and a pretty bad Morrigan, It seems like a very good team against Moridoom. It might be even better if he switched Phoenix out for Vergil anchor.
I've gotta go back and watch the rest of the archives, I missed grand finals since I had to get up early for work.
I've gotta go back and watch the rest of the archives, I missed grand finals since I had to get up early for work.
Karsticles
Member
It is better if you drop Phoenix for Vergil, because you can spend meter more freely, and Morrigan/Rapid Slash is a very strong combination.
Zero May Cry is a horribly overrated team.
It's still a really good team though. It's pretty much the same as Wolverine/Doom/Vergil- Ridiculous point character that can run through a team/assist character/dark vergil. Dante is crap with just rapid slash assist just like Doom and is mostly there to put in work, but it doesn't really matter because you have Vergil in the back. Dante doesn't provide infinites, but Zero has no use for them anyway.
Yeah, all the tools in the world don't help you when they're all slow as fuck. A Dante player needs anticipation, reaction, and prediction for that matchup to work, which is oftentimes simply impossible against a character like Wolverine.
Yipes Demi-god tier confirmed
I'm disappointed by Yipes' showing. That CJ Showstoppa match was eyeroll inducing. I don't think he took the match as seriously as he should have, and put himself into unnecessary situations to get Footdive'd and Helm Breaker'd. He should know that's what CJ would go for. I don't think that's enough to dethrone him. I'd see how he does at EVO before making that claim. I feel like a lot of hidden trump cards are going to be played.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Just down at the beach in Socal with my girlfriend since the semester ended. I can browse gaf now since she's asleep lol
I'll definitely have you guys catch me up on this and next weekend's festivities when I'm back, I'll also have good internet again at that point!
crimsonspider89
Banned
ZMC is bad once you look at team pretty boy. Two assists with a shell that can come back if Zero dies. Dante/Strider can make comebacks and then you get Dark Strider all in your face.
ZMC does not have Strider on it.
I always liked Hunter May Stride over Zero May Cry, but most other people won't like the sharp drop in damage potential once Zero goes, the team requires you to be extra sharp, especially if you want to confirm from Vajras that are successful and you lose the guaranteed corner carry stuff.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Archer May Stride is fun too.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Why I said when you look at team pretty boy. Or animu.
*shakes head*
When I say ZMC isn't as good as team pretty boys.
It means, not ZMC which doesn't have Strider hence why team pretty boys is scarier.
*shakes head*
When I say ZMC isn't as good as team pretty boys.
It means, not ZMC which doesn't have Strider hence why team pretty boys is scarier.
Karsticles
Member
That's why he was talking about team pretty boy.
kevo_huevo
Member
any anchor advice?
nova/doom (beam)/???
i don't think i like akuma on anchor anymore, and i don't want to move doom to anchor. would wesker work, with palm or jaguar kick as a combo extension for nova/doom?
nova/doom (beam)/???
i don't think i like akuma on anchor anymore, and i don't want to move doom to anchor. would wesker work, with palm or jaguar kick as a combo extension for nova/doom?
Karsticles
Member
Strider or Amaterasu, obviously. Both work for Nova and Doom, and are great anchors.
Karsticles
Member
I was just using the term crimson did for reference.
I agree, both of these characters are fine anchors, and have assists that work quite well with both characters. Doom/Ammy and Doom/Strider are proven, but Nova also works really well with both characters. With Strider you get a better anchor, but with Ammy you get the Doom/Ammy THC shenanigans.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Team Strider may cry. Was using dry humor. I have nicknames for every team. Like Super Strange or Power of IMPACT PALM!
Yeah..... or my favorite. Team Oldschool badguys
Yeah..... or my favorite. Team Oldschool badguys
what does that consist of?
crimsonspider89
Banned
Skrull and Strange. A stupid shell nobody plays.
kevo_huevo
Member
i've never considered strider as an anchor; i'll give him a shot. i just hate learning new characters, i would rather just play. ammy just never interested me as a character at all so i don't think i'll try using her. honestly the only reason i used akuma at anchor was his high damage output, but i can't stand his nubs for hitboxes.
JeTmAn81
Member
I bet this one is Dormammu and Strange. I r clevar.
that works?
crimsonspider89
Banned
Bolts with Skrull is stupid good. Gives Skrull safety with meteor smash, mix ups since people will duck bolts which allows Skrull to do overhead games not to mention rolling hook games. Skrull can DHC into Strange with inferno into Rings which secures a kill as well.
Karsticles
Member
Bolts of Balthakk = safe Meteor Smash that combos.
excuse me, im gonna go into the lab for a while...
Karsticles
Member
Sometimes Molecular Shield, Mystic Ray might work, and I'd give Vajra a shot.
Meteor Smash + Bolts is not safe at all for anyone who can duck under bolts with crouching normals. You don't even need to upback, just block the Meteor Smash standing, then cr.LMH and bam you've punished Skrull.
Unless the people who've tried it against me suck and mistime it or something.
Unless the people who've tried it against me suck and mistime it or something.
crimsonspider89
Banned
You duck, you get hit by the bolts or Skrull half way through the combo. Due to the active frames of Bolts.
If you go for crouching normals the entire way through, you'll duck under bolts. They're active, but not that active. Only time you'll ever get hit by bolts is if you stand up for your strings. Admittedly, not every character can do it, but a lot of them certainly can.