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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
SloaneRisette
Member
Except license rights.
Karsticles
Member
EXCELLENT! Also, I agree with your X-Factor suggestion, Dahbomb. Here is the summary of all system changes. On Sunday, we will vote to finalize them, and then Dahbomb will decide the 3 characters we will discuss next week.
SYSTEM CHANGES:
TAC Changes:
*Cost 1 bar, always a guaranteed exchange in one of three directions.
*Meter gain/loss from directional choice removed.
*HSD returns to 0 after a TAC and builds normally from there.
*The TAC user cannot gain meter after a TAC until the opponent enters recovery (exception: Soul Drain, meter gain assists).
Throw Changes:
*Throw tech window increased by 3 frames.
*You cannot be grabbed during tech recovery.
*Ground throw techs put one character-length distance between the two characters.
*Throws can only be initiated with f.H and b.H.
X-Factor Changes:
*X-Factor sum values are now as follows: XF1 40%; XF2 65%; XF3 80%.
*X-Factor now freezes the in-game timer while active.
*X-Factor buffs now stack additively with install hypers, not multiplicatively.
Damage Changes:
*All damage decreased by 20% across the board.
*Chip damage increased by 5% (to 35%).
*Damage scaling now applies to assists.
Combo Changes:
*Cannot mash Light chains on whiff. Can only do it on block or hit.
Assist Changes:
*Assists depart with invulnerability frames if the point character is hit before they appear on the screen.
*Assists cannot be called during recovery frames or rolls.
*Cannot call assists after throw techs for 15 frames.
*Cannot call assists at super jump height after recovering.
*When an assist begins recovery from knockdown, it is invincible until it exits the stage.
Other Changes:
*Guard Breaks removed.
*Ground neutral tech recovery is now slightly slower and more deliberately visualized.
*Character deaths do not cause inputs to drop when there are multiple characters being hit simultaneously.
*Incoming characters can choose which side to come in on by holding left or right.
*Input reading changed: holding forward/back is no longer a forward/back input in terms of moves. Example: holding back, and then doing qcb, currently gives one a reverse dragon punch motion. In general, directional input buffering is toned down a bit.
*Raw tags no longer hit overhead.
*Attack cancelation does not change when in X-Factor (currently, you cannot cancel Morrigans s.H in certain X-Factor levels).
*All snapbacks universalized to be 2 frames and +1 on block. Attack travel speed instantaneous for all characters.
SYSTEM CHANGES:
TAC Changes:
*Cost 1 bar, always a guaranteed exchange in one of three directions.
*Meter gain/loss from directional choice removed.
*HSD returns to 0 after a TAC and builds normally from there.
*The TAC user cannot gain meter after a TAC until the opponent enters recovery (exception: Soul Drain, meter gain assists).
Throw Changes:
*Throw tech window increased by 3 frames.
*You cannot be grabbed during tech recovery.
*Ground throw techs put one character-length distance between the two characters.
*Throws can only be initiated with f.H and b.H.
X-Factor Changes:
*X-Factor sum values are now as follows: XF1 40%; XF2 65%; XF3 80%.
*X-Factor now freezes the in-game timer while active.
*X-Factor buffs now stack additively with install hypers, not multiplicatively.
Damage Changes:
*All damage decreased by 20% across the board.
*Chip damage increased by 5% (to 35%).
*Damage scaling now applies to assists.
Combo Changes:
*Cannot mash Light chains on whiff. Can only do it on block or hit.
Assist Changes:
*Assists depart with invulnerability frames if the point character is hit before they appear on the screen.
*Assists cannot be called during recovery frames or rolls.
*Cannot call assists after throw techs for 15 frames.
*Cannot call assists at super jump height after recovering.
*When an assist begins recovery from knockdown, it is invincible until it exits the stage.
Other Changes:
*Guard Breaks removed.
*Ground neutral tech recovery is now slightly slower and more deliberately visualized.
*Character deaths do not cause inputs to drop when there are multiple characters being hit simultaneously.
*Incoming characters can choose which side to come in on by holding left or right.
*Input reading changed: holding forward/back is no longer a forward/back input in terms of moves. Example: holding back, and then doing qcb, currently gives one a reverse dragon punch motion. In general, directional input buffering is toned down a bit.
*Raw tags no longer hit overhead.
*Attack cancelation does not change when in X-Factor (currently, you cannot cancel Morrigans s.H in certain X-Factor levels).
*All snapbacks universalized to be 2 frames and +1 on block. Attack travel speed instantaneous for all characters.
WHAT?! Where did you saw this?!
No I mean we are doing 5 characters next week instead of 3. One a day, 2 days to finalize.
SloaneRisette
Member
Posted in FGW but I'll post here. I have no real good eye for balance, but I'll definitely give thoughts on Cap changes since he's my best character and the character I've worked the most with.
Ow LOL you scared me
Getting their hopes up for nothing.
Karsticles
Member
I posted the Chindogg tweets on GFAQs and Capcom-Unity and talked about our efforts here. I also posted a link to our current patch list. My hope is that the community will generally be in agreement with our suggested changes, and we will be a little more united in our suggestions.
Do 3, and then if we finish early do the next 3 early. One character a day is too much - some days folks won't be around. It's good to give all 3 characters the whole week.
Sounds good!
I LOVED all the suggestions, especially those above
I don't think we finalized that incoming character change about the sides. That is still on the discussion table. God's Beard said he wanted incoming mix ups to still be strong and I agree.
Yes. 1F throws really put a damper on the ridiculous stuff in the game. That said there are a few changes made to throws particularly throw techs.
It nerfs Zero a lot! And nerfs to Zero are always welcome
But yeah, as it is now, the incoming mixup game is TOO strong
Karsticles
Member
Yes, why not?
I think they are still strong; let me explain:
Currently, you come in on one side, and let's be honest: it's a fucking guessing game. At last night's locals, there was a Spider-man player you said you can kara-cancel Spider Sting to make it cross under. So he would 50/50 me with either a bare Spider Sting, or a kara-canceled Spider Sting. If I tried to air dash out, he would Web Throw me, which also had a 50% chance of crossing up. That shit is dumb and impossible to react to, and it needs to change.
If character could choose what side they come in on, incoming mix-ups would STILL be strong because the player with his character already on the screen still has a good 3-5 seconds (how long is the lock-out time?) where he has point + assists against just assists. Now it just means that the assists will be toned down a bit to normal game levels of idiocy instead of the frustrating level of incoming mix-up idiocy.
A lot of characters are sitting ducks in the current incoming mix-up environment. Basically, you need to be small, have air mobility, and/or a reversal to get out of those corners. If Sentinel didn't have Hard Drive, he would be the most fucked character in the cast because he would never get out of there. This just makes it a little more balanced, and gives characters a chance to survive. Incoming characters are already fighting 2v1, give them a little something to help out.
Karsticles
Member
Two folks suggested feature updates on other websites - should we bother adding that stuff? The two suggestions were:
1) Replays
2) Kicking people from lobbies.
We could add the hitbox viewer, since it's on the goddamn Vita version.
What more do you need to understand how this will work?
Keep in mind that with XF3 and overall damage toned down, Dark Phoenix is not going to be quite as scary. She is almost guaranteed to run out of X-Factor by the time 2 characters die. Besides, isn't her most irritating aspect her incoming mix-ups? Set up two traps, TELEPORT TELEPORT TELEPORT. This underpowers those slightly, which I am fine with as someone who would like to be a Dark Phoenix main again.
1) Replays
2) Kicking people from lobbies.
We could add the hitbox viewer, since it's on the goddamn Vita version.
You still do. Even if, for example, Chris gets to choose whether to come in left or right, it only takes half a second for a Wolverine player to recognize that and zip in with Berserker Slash + Plasma Beam. Having air dashes and double jumps is still important.
Deal: it will not apply to Snapbacks. This makes sense, since you spent a bar to make a character vulnerable for a while.
What more do you need to understand how this will work?
Keep in mind that with XF3 and overall damage toned down, Dark Phoenix is not going to be quite as scary. She is almost guaranteed to run out of X-Factor by the time 2 characters die. Besides, isn't her most irritating aspect her incoming mix-ups? Set up two traps, TELEPORT TELEPORT TELEPORT. This underpowers those slightly, which I am fine with as someone who would like to be a Dark Phoenix main again.
Absolutely. Throws are a great equalizer and a powerful tool that every character in the game has, though certain characters have better options after a throw. That balancing can be remedied with character specific changes.
If you can choose which side to come in then that removes the need to nerf unblockable set ups.
Also it makes Vajra even better now.
I just think you need to clarify this a bit more. Like say you die in the right corner, if you change directions do you now appear from the left corner or behind/above the opponent's character. And you just hold a direction? What if you want to block forward but not switch sides?
I am not against this but I think a new mechanic needs better clarification.
Also it makes Vajra even better now.
I just think you need to clarify this a bit more. Like say you die in the right corner, if you change directions do you now appear from the left corner or behind/above the opponent's character. And you just hold a direction? What if you want to block forward but not switch sides?
I am not against this but I think a new mechanic needs better clarification.
MiniBossBattle
Member
At least you can't get guard broken like in MvC2* on incoming.
*Remembers seeing IronMan Super to She Hulk Super guard breaks.
*Remembers seeing IronMan Super to She Hulk Super guard breaks.
Karsticles
Member
It doesn't entirely remove the need to nerf unblockable setups, since there is still the Firebrand/Tenderizer snapback setup to worry about. It does mostly solve them, though.
It's a relative buff to Vajra, in the sense that you know it will hit regardless of the incoming side. But it's not actually any more effective offensively, since your opponent knows which side he/she is coming in on.
I bolded the answer to your question.
The game would have you come in on whichever side you held a direction for the longest. So you can hold left for a second, and then hold right just as your character comes in to block forward if you want.
Karsticles
Member
Is this phrasing more clear?
Karsticles
Member
The existing character no longer chooses your side, so no more dead body glitch.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Glitch would be removed, you gotta think of the new game/version not having any of the old glitches. You can not balance characters based on old glitches currently in the game.
MiniBossBattle
Member
There goes my Storm incoming mixup.
commanderpepper
Member
All I want is PW to get buffed. Get rid of bad evidence and Order in the Court can be performed in investigation mode. Also a double jump but, that's pushing it.
Karsticles
Member
Is there any in-game logic for Wright to have a double jump?
Not really. I'm trying to think about air mobility options for him in the context of the source material. But technically, Captain America shouldn't have a double jump by this logic either.
commanderpepper
Member
I feel like he's a slow character. He has bad air normals so to compensate give him a bit more air mobility. To be honest I'd be more then happy with the first two suggestions I proposed.
Lee Chaolan
Member
What changes do I want?
Invincible Phoenix Wright Turnabout Assists back.
Oh yeah.
Invincible Phoenix Wright Turnabout Assists back.
Oh yeah.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
PW should have more life, dude got hit by a car went flying head first into a lightpole and was pretty much ok afterwards
"Damage Changes:
*All damage decreased by 20% across the board.
*Damage scaling now applies to assists."
So what stops me from spamming [insert whatever is the best assist in the new version here] every chance I get? If I spammed drones before, Sentinel was probably dead. Now hailstorm, hyper sentinel force, x factor, hyper sentinel force, hailstorm might not even kill my assist especially if I let my point character get hit on purpose.
*All damage decreased by 20% across the board.
*Damage scaling now applies to assists."
So what stops me from spamming [insert whatever is the best assist in the new version here] every chance I get? If I spammed drones before, Sentinel was probably dead. Now hailstorm, hyper sentinel force, x factor, hyper sentinel force, hailstorm might not even kill my assist especially if I let my point character get hit on purpose.
commanderpepper
Member
What changes do I want?
Invincible Phoenix Wright Turnabout Assists back.
Oh yeah.
No they were right to change that. It was sort of insane. Once I got the assist I felt like I couldn't lose.
That should be a new super.
Lee Chaolan
Member
I was kidding.
Anyway, I like your ideas. I wonder though, No bad evidence, could that possibly be broken? The only thing to stand in the way then would be the Meat that Phoenix picks up to increase his health. So it could still take more than 3 to get them I suppose.
I think Order in the Court is fine where it's at. For a combo, it's very easy to just switch to that for order in the court. Still an interesting idea.
I'd like the Maya shield to have a bit more vitality but some would agrue it's strong enough as it is.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Those changes are not all at once, we are going to vote on which ones we want to keep. It's a list of ideas.
He needs a damage buff, or a majorty of the cast needs to drop down to his, jill, and felicia's level.
Assists still take more damage than point characters, the problem was that before they took WAY more damage. Now you may have to actually do combos rather than super XF super to kill an assist. Also because overall health will be higher, you will have more meter in a match to snipe assists.
On the point of pre-match movement... just lower the walk speed of Wolverine no need to make a big system change over one god damn character. Marvel is all about that pre-match movement.
And keep the legit twitter post coming. We may get some new better ideas.
AKingNamedPaul
I am Homie
If I am Capcom, I would aggressively buff vergil/zero, buff hidden missiles and soul fist's and nerf Shuma Gorath relentlessly.
The update would automatically charge your account 40 dollars and it would only include these 5 changes. I would then watch the world burn.
The update would automatically charge your account 40 dollars and it would only include these 5 changes. I would then watch the world burn.
ShadyK actually likes the idea of taking away pre-match movement. :lol
Hurry up and get to characters so we can do Hsien Ko some much needed justice while visibility is high!
Edit: Looks like I'm late with that one, ah well.
Hurry up and get to characters so we can do Hsien Ko some much needed justice while visibility is high!
Edit: Looks like I'm late with that one, ah well.
commanderpepper
Member
I was kidding.
Anyway, I like your ideas. I wonder though, No bad evidence, could that possibly be broken? The only thing to stand in the way then would be the Meat that Phoenix picks up to increase his health. So it could still take more than 3 to get them I suppose.
I think Order in the Court is fine where it's at. For a combo, it's very easy to just switch to that for order in the court. Still an interesting idea.
I'd like the Maya shield to have a bit more vitality but some would agrue it's strong enough as it is.
If they were to get rid of bad evidence then I would suppose they would nerf some of the evidence. Like make cellphone emit 2 orbs instead of 3.
As for Order in the Court, I can see an argument for leaving it only in Investigation mode.
Maya having more time on screen would be nice. Also I'd like PW have a way to call out Missile when on the screen. Maybe it would be a charge move because Missile is a low projectile that OTGs.