I have two things to add:
*Gold and Silver Herald colors unlocked from the start.
* When the creator of a lobby leaves, the private slots in the lobby stay private!!!
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
*Gold and Silver Herald colors unlocked from the start.
* When the creator of a lobby leaves, the private slots in the lobby stay private!!!
OTG RHK is fair, gives him possibility of air throw combos and easier to set up God Hands solo. As long as the HSD on it is adjusted so you don't get derp relaunch combos over and over again.
The higher damage is a slipper slope mostly because he gets a lot of his damage from zoning. It's like asking for a damage buff on Morrigan. Also do you want better scaling or just higher base damage?
On top of that I would say they need to tone down the charged Zoomerang a bit and make it into an assist. Some characters get wrecked supremely hard by the charged zoomerang trap. I think him getting those other buffs, this is a fair change and it also makes him less reliant on a singular tool.
Oh and the Joe P1 infinite should be removed.
The higher damage is a slipper slope mostly because he gets a lot of his damage from zoning. It's like asking for a damage buff on Morrigan. Also do you want better scaling or just higher base damage?
On top of that I would say they need to tone down the charged Zoomerang a bit and make it into an assist. Some characters get wrecked supremely hard by the charged zoomerang trap. I think him getting those other buffs, this is a fair change and it also makes him less reliant on a singular tool.
Oh and the Joe P1 infinite should be removed.
And this is a bad thing because....?
Yup, fucking terrifying in X-Factor too. XF3 She Hulk is some weird crazy stuff.
MiniBossBattle
Member
H&H online and local with friends. Buy and trade cards. I want Nova's Dophin kick to have armor and have chip damage lol.
Well if you want to make TACs useless they are more ways to do that. The change we proposed removed the guessing game involved from TACs and made it into a legitimate tag combo mechanic.
As long as TACs are blind guesses they are an illegitimate mechanic. I proposed TACs be more reactable like throws in Tekken but the majority opted for a 1 meter guaranteed TAC, no meter gain afterwards.
Not that I am against your suggestion, any suggestion on TACs would be a net improvement on its current state.
"God's Beard!"
Member
My best Magneto combo does 830k meterless and builds two and a half bars, works on all characters anywhere on screen and isn't super high execution :3
Volcano assist!
Volcano assist!
Karsticles
Member
Because TACs are a mechanic in the game, and they should be made useful and interesting, not discarded or made unusable.
Added the second one, but I think the herald colors should stay as a way to get people to play H&H.
I got all the cards in a weekend except for 2 - I don't think trading them is necessary.
Professor Beef
Banned
The relaunch combo is only with his Slow combo, which isn't really a problem since the opponent has a few ways to get out of it.
He only really needs higher damage on his strikes, not on his Voomerangs. Higher base damage would be nice I guess.
Voomerang I want changed, but not what you suggested. I actually want the uncharged ones to not go away when Joe gets hit, but the charged ones can stay the same.
As far as Wright changes....here's some stuff I was thinking of to emphasize his "mode" style play without changing it too much (I shake my head when I hear about removing bad evidence and stuff, luck is a part of the character both plot and gameplay style wise).
- Faster cancel into Trial mode mid-combo for more reliable damage and Hold It stun setups
- In trial mode, slightly buffed normals and paper should have slightly more durability.
- Being able to change modes like Zero can charge his buster pre-fight. With a stronger Trial mode, he'd be able to at least fish for a hit and then switch to Investigation while safe. Maybe even have time to put a Maya Shield? That might be a bit too strong and covering his initial start-of-the-round weakness too much.
- Bad evidence not removed, better durability on items thrown, different throw arcs for different bad evidence.
With everything being normalized some more (ex: XF3 Vergil won't be as bullshit thanks to no more multiplying buffs), I think Turnabout is fine as is, he doesn't even really "need" another move that hits low in Turnabout with the Maya THC to setup unblockables. c.H hitting low wouldn't hurt I suppose, but I do like having to lock people down with projectiles and setup the unblockable if I don't have a low hitting assist.
I don't think bringing back his invincible assists in Turnabout is a good idea, but maybe armor like Hsien-Ko's assist? Probably too strong though, maybe just add one hit of armor if anything at all.
- Faster cancel into Trial mode mid-combo for more reliable damage and Hold It stun setups
- In trial mode, slightly buffed normals and paper should have slightly more durability.
- Being able to change modes like Zero can charge his buster pre-fight. With a stronger Trial mode, he'd be able to at least fish for a hit and then switch to Investigation while safe. Maybe even have time to put a Maya Shield? That might be a bit too strong and covering his initial start-of-the-round weakness too much.
- Bad evidence not removed, better durability on items thrown, different throw arcs for different bad evidence.
With everything being normalized some more (ex: XF3 Vergil won't be as bullshit thanks to no more multiplying buffs), I think Turnabout is fine as is, he doesn't even really "need" another move that hits low in Turnabout with the Maya THC to setup unblockables. c.H hitting low wouldn't hurt I suppose, but I do like having to lock people down with projectiles and setup the unblockable if I don't have a low hitting assist.
I don't think bringing back his invincible assists in Turnabout is a good idea, but maybe armor like Hsien-Ko's assist? Probably too strong though, maybe just add one hit of armor if anything at all.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71708866]My best Magneto combo does 830k meterless and builds two and a half bars, works on all characters anywhere on screen and isn't super high execution :3
Volcano assist![/QUOTE]
I was fighting this really unorthodox magneto the other day and he was doing this goofy shit that I was trying to do when I first learned magneto. Launch into gravitation and then mix up into another string that ended in a launch and gravitation. Just wrecked me with mixups and resets using this stupid shit. Glad to see it applied though
Volcano assist![/QUOTE]
I was fighting this really unorthodox magneto the other day and he was doing this goofy shit that I was trying to do when I first learned magneto. Launch into gravitation and then mix up into another string that ended in a launch and gravitation. Just wrecked me with mixups and resets using this stupid shit. Glad to see it applied though
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Yes please
Still seems like a bad character to me. TA mode is still on a timer and Investigation PW still sucks balls. No attempt to limit randomization either. At least put a semi pattern where if you get 2 bad evidences in a row your next evidence is good guaranteed. This allows player to have a max time frame for achieving the 2nd mode.
Um. If you have two bad evidence in two different slots, the third one is always an actual evidence, lol (if in a different slot) It's already there!
Turnabout mode should have a slightly longer timer at most, I don't think making it permanent is the way to go considering how strong some evidence is in that mode (Cell phone, Photo)
Investigation Wright should suck balls since there should be some danger in gathering evidence and having to be defensive. There's already stuff like fishing for hits out of Maya Shield, he just needs a better way of setting it up (my suggestion of better Trial Wright to switch to Investigation + put up Maya Shield after say, a knockdown)
Karsticles
Member
Here are my suggestions for this week's four characters thus far:
Phoenix Wright:
*Bad evidence removed from the game.
*Meat gathering rate increased.
*”M-Maya?!” L appears closer to Wright than before.
*Ace Attorney startup reduced to 5 frames.
*Stance Change reduced to 10 frames (from 20).
*”M-Maya?!” L startup reduced to 15 frames.
*”M-Maya?!” M and H startup reduced to 20 frames.
Assists: “Get em’ Missile!”, Questioning (becomes Objection when appropriate), Gather/Present Evidence (continues to gather through the L+S, M+S, and H+S inputs until all evidence is gathered; uses L+S if in Trial mode; if all slots are filled and called while in Investigation mode, throws away his L+S item).
Phoenix:
*Dark Phoenix no longer suffers from life drain.
*Dark Phoenix feathers now travel 15% farther.
*TK Shot (air) no longer makes Phoenix prone until she lands.
*Only one TK Shot H may be performed per jump unless in flight (as with Trish).
*New Hyper: Overload; Phoenix loses all health immediately; requires 5 bars.
*Flight startup reduced to 14 frames.
*f.M reduced to 19 frames.
Assists: TK Overdrive H, TK Shot H, TK Trap L
She-Hulk:
*Lights Out startup reduced to 20 frames.
*c.L chains into itself on block/hit.
*Taking out the Trash hitbox and invincibility slightly increased.
*Emerald Cannon hyper forces a wall bounce.
*Speed increased slightly.
*Emergency Landing (Catapult Cancel) no longer makes She-Hulk prone until landing.
*Canceling Runner’s Start has 0 frames of recovery.
*Torpedo assist startup reduced to 35.
Assists: Lights Out, Shooting Star, Torpedo
Wolverine:
*Fatal Claw damage slightly decreased.
*Wavedashing with Wolverine is less likely to activate Berserker Charge.
*Dash speed decreased slightly.
*Berserker Charge provides slight red health recovery.
Assists: Berserker Barrage H (fully mashed), Swiss Cheese, df.M
Phoenix Wright:
*Bad evidence removed from the game.
*Meat gathering rate increased.
*”M-Maya?!” L appears closer to Wright than before.
*Ace Attorney startup reduced to 5 frames.
*Stance Change reduced to 10 frames (from 20).
*”M-Maya?!” L startup reduced to 15 frames.
*”M-Maya?!” M and H startup reduced to 20 frames.
Assists: “Get em’ Missile!”, Questioning (becomes Objection when appropriate), Gather/Present Evidence (continues to gather through the L+S, M+S, and H+S inputs until all evidence is gathered; uses L+S if in Trial mode; if all slots are filled and called while in Investigation mode, throws away his L+S item).
Phoenix:
*Dark Phoenix no longer suffers from life drain.
*Dark Phoenix feathers now travel 15% farther.
*TK Shot (air) no longer makes Phoenix prone until she lands.
*Only one TK Shot H may be performed per jump unless in flight (as with Trish).
*New Hyper: Overload; Phoenix loses all health immediately; requires 5 bars.
*Flight startup reduced to 14 frames.
*f.M reduced to 19 frames.
Assists: TK Overdrive H, TK Shot H, TK Trap L
She-Hulk:
*Lights Out startup reduced to 20 frames.
*c.L chains into itself on block/hit.
*Taking out the Trash hitbox and invincibility slightly increased.
*Emerald Cannon hyper forces a wall bounce.
*Speed increased slightly.
*Emergency Landing (Catapult Cancel) no longer makes She-Hulk prone until landing.
*Canceling Runner’s Start has 0 frames of recovery.
*Torpedo assist startup reduced to 35.
Assists: Lights Out, Shooting Star, Torpedo
Wolverine:
*Fatal Claw damage slightly decreased.
*Wavedashing with Wolverine is less likely to activate Berserker Charge.
*Dash speed decreased slightly.
*Berserker Charge provides slight red health recovery.
Assists: Berserker Barrage H (fully mashed), Swiss Cheese, df.M
MiniBossBattle
Member
Redo the cards with specific arcade/online locks (Team Super KO!). It would be cool to embed non-match stuff so even if you lose, you earn xp for a new card for H&H.
commanderpepper
Member
It's been a while since I played a PW game but, I thought all evidence had some purpose. The game would throw some "useless" evidence but, it would come up at a later time in the case and had some purpose. Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly lol.
No I meant on a single slot. Like you search slot 1 2 times and 3rd time you are guaranteed a good evidence for that slot. Also cap the number of bad evidences you can receive in a match.
Dash speed is perfectly fine on Wolverine. Not even among the fastest in the game. Besides RTSD characters are supposes to have fast dashes.
Ah, okay.
Not opposed to better chances, but I still don't think removing it altogether is the best idea. Perhaps make it tons easier to get good evidence, but make the better evidence like Cell phone have a much much lower chance of showing up.
Always had the impression that it was supposed to mimic "presenting" the correct evidence at the right time, hence why if you have bad evidence and you try to "present" it in Trial mode, Wright just becomes a sitting duck, lol.
Normal wall bounce or forced wall bounce as an assist?
Also bringing back forced wall bounce on her Lv1.
Karsticles
Member
No one would use the Clothesline assist anyway.
I'll be in for a slight, slight buff on her slide. I haven't forgotten what a monster she was in Vanilla.
"God's Beard!"
Member
It's actually possible to cancel a launch into attraction in the corner to pull them behind you then do a Shockwave for full damage. But it's hard as hell.
I personally feel most assists should cause a forced bounce. In that instance yes the assist should cause a forced bounce but only as an assist.
Cannon never caused forced wall bounce, her clothesline didn't wall bounce in Vanilla. Her run stop combos could be done mid screen so she didn't need a wall bounce.
And buff that Lampost move too. Shit is ass.
Slide has to be at least Nova range. Even with all those changes Nova would still be better.
Cannon never caused forced wall bounce, her clothesline didn't wall bounce in Vanilla. Her run stop combos could be done mid screen so she didn't need a wall bounce.
And buff that Lampost move too. Shit is ass.
Slide has to be at least Nova range. Even with all those changes Nova would still be better.
Karsticles
Member
Lights Out = Lamp Post move.
commanderpepper
Member
Well okay, I see where you're coming from. This would explain why Order in the Court destroys bad evidence and puts Phoenix back into Investigation mode. If bad evidence is to remain in the game then PW shouldn't pick up the same evidence over and over again. For example when PW picks up the Servbot and throws it away he shouldn't pick it up again.
Karsticles
Member
Lights Out is currently 30 frames. I don't think reducing it by 5 frames makes a difference. Also, it hits more like 1/2 screen.
I can't think of any other Phoenix changes I would want to make that she really needs. I could let her combo off of all her throws, but I don't think it's really necessary. She gets to set up with traps and stuff after a throw, and that's good enough.
What does PW do when he has all the evidence as assists? He fires off the projectile? If so then which one or is it random? That's actually a neat idea.
The best Phoenix change:
Press Select plus button to select regular Jean.
No Dark Phoenix. 750K health. Healing Field reworked, a consistent amount of heal when near opponeny, no more than 200k health healed per activation. Cannot build meter during hyper.
The best Phoenix change:
Press Select plus button to select regular Jean.
No Dark Phoenix. 750K health. Healing Field reworked, a consistent amount of heal when near opponeny, no more than 200k health healed per activation. Cannot build meter during hyper.
Karsticles
Member
I edited it; he uses whatever is in his L+S slot. So, Wright users will have to adjust their teams according to what he gets there.
Yeah that would be a pretty nifty idea.
Trying to think if having summoning Missile as Wright while on point would have any use, but can't really think of anything. If he was usable in Investigation mode, it could be an interesting way of defense. Summon Missile, Summon Maya, and then if the opponent tries to go in, they have a chance of getting hit by Missile.
Trying to think if having summoning Missile as Wright while on point would have any use, but can't really think of anything. If he was usable in Investigation mode, it could be an interesting way of defense. Summon Missile, Summon Maya, and then if the opponent tries to go in, they have a chance of getting hit by Missile.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Slight dash speed decrease for Wolverine seems kind of arbitrary. He only covers long distances at once with Slashes, usually he's doing little dashes and normal jumps.
And don't say it's because you're making wavedashing easier, because plink dashing is way faster. And Wolverine's only got a moderately fast dash. I don't think it's a necessary nerf.
And don't say it's because you're making wavedashing easier, because plink dashing is way faster. And Wolverine's only got a moderately fast dash. I don't think it's a necessary nerf.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71712886]Slight dash speed decrease for Wolverine seems kind of arbitrary. He only covers long distances at once with Slashes, usually he's doing little dashes and normal jumps.
And don't say it's because you're making wavedashing easier, because plink dashing is way faster. And Wolverine's only got a moderately fast dash. I don't think it's a necessary nerf.[/QUOTE]
Yea I agree, his dash is fine.
The only other nerf I would add to him is more recovery on Swiss Cheese. If there's no universal health increase I would not be opposed to a slight decrease in his base damage.
And don't say it's because you're making wavedashing easier, because plink dashing is way faster. And Wolverine's only got a moderately fast dash. I don't think it's a necessary nerf.[/QUOTE]
Yea I agree, his dash is fine.
The only other nerf I would add to him is more recovery on Swiss Cheese. If there's no universal health increase I would not be opposed to a slight decrease in his base damage.
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71712886]Slight dash speed decrease for Wolverine seems kind of arbitrary. He only covers long distances at once with Slashes, usually he's doing little dashes and normal jumps.
And don't say it's because you're making wavedashing easier, because plink dashing is way faster. And Wolverine's only got a moderately fast dash. I don't think it's a necessary nerf.[/QUOTE]
A moderately fast dash? Wolverine has the second fastest dash in the game, right behind X-23, I bet.
Reducing the dash speed reduces his ability to dash -> Berserker Slash across the entire screen in a second. In general, it just makes his pressure a little weaker, which I think is needed.
I couldn't think of any other necessary changes for Wolverine, because most of what makes him good is system stuff. We're indirectly nerfing him with the dive kick OS removal already...
And don't say it's because you're making wavedashing easier, because plink dashing is way faster. And Wolverine's only got a moderately fast dash. I don't think it's a necessary nerf.[/QUOTE]
A moderately fast dash? Wolverine has the second fastest dash in the game, right behind X-23, I bet.
Reducing the dash speed reduces his ability to dash -> Berserker Slash across the entire screen in a second. In general, it just makes his pressure a little weaker, which I think is needed.
I couldn't think of any other necessary changes for Wolverine, because most of what makes him good is system stuff. We're indirectly nerfing him with the dive kick OS removal already...
commanderpepper
Member
They should add Missile as a charge move for PW to use like Felica's Sand Splash. Only usable in Courtroom mode though.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Please don't get rid of my trap M assist. I love that thing.
You'd be wrong. Off-hand, Strider is also faster.
I'm gonna go ahead and not agree with you on the second point. Not necessary at all.
You'd be wrong. Off-hand, Strider is also faster.
I'm gonna go ahead and not agree with you on the second point. Not necessary at all.
Yeah, this would give him a better low in Turnabout and give him another self unblockable without being too derpy (since you still have to time it).
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71713071]Please don't get rid of my trap M assist. I love that thing.[/QUOTE]
For Phoenix? You use the Trap H assist, fraud. You don't even like the character, and that assist is pure garbage.
Edit: Maybe the Berserker Charge speed boost should be dropped slightly?
For Phoenix? You use the Trap H assist, fraud. You don't even like the character, and that assist is pure garbage.
Edit: Maybe the Berserker Charge speed boost should be dropped slightly?
"God's Beard!"
Member
Well trap whatever, I just call it trap assist. And it's not. It's a solid incoming lockdown assist and I use it for guard breaks with Wesker. Vertical trap wouldn't work.
Why? It's a speed boost, that's what it does. I'm not the one trying to turn it into Devil Trigger with red health regen.
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71713316]Well trap whatever, I just call it trap assist. And it's not. It's a solid incoming lockdown assist and I use it for guard breaks with Wesker.[/QUOTE]
TK Trap L can do the same thing, though. And it's actually useful.
TK Trap L can do the same thing, though. And it's actually useful.
Jill, X23, Strider and Iron Fist all have faster ground movement than Wolverine. What makes him fast is dash into B Slash and he can't always do that. If you want to talk about pure movement with just dashes, you can cover more distance faster with even Wesker than Wolverine.
Nerfing B Charge would impact some his B Charge combos. B Charge is already slightly nerfed due to no stacking in XF.
There are only 2 problems with Wolverine : Easy damage and start of game gambit. Easy damage is rectified by FC nerf with maybe a slight base damage nerf. Start of game gambit can be nerfed with slower walk speed and he also loses his Dive Kick OS.
Nerfing B Charge would impact some his B Charge combos. B Charge is already slightly nerfed due to no stacking in XF.
There are only 2 problems with Wolverine : Easy damage and start of game gambit. Easy damage is rectified by FC nerf with maybe a slight base damage nerf. Start of game gambit can be nerfed with slower walk speed and he also loses his Dive Kick OS.
Karsticles
Member
But Wolverine's pressure is better than any of those characters. So him getting in easier means more. I'll remove the change, regardless.
How about that Berserker Charge nerf?
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71713316]Why? It's a speed boost, that's what it does. I'm not the one trying to turn it into Devil Trigger with red health regen.[/QUOTE]
30% is a bit much, don't you think? 25% seems like it's enough. And Wolverine should have have health regen somewhere. It's the goddamn basis of the character's existence.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I want Wolverine's slide to be cancelable into Drill Claw. You won't be able to combo after OTGs with it, but you could use it as a surprise footsie tool. It has less range than his standing H so I don't think it's gonna be a problem. Just to make Wolvie less one-dimensional.
No, it can't. Not for Wesker.
No, it can't. Not for Wesker.
DeadPhoenix9065
Member
I don't think Dark Phoenix should have health drain removed, she can take her time and spam the hell out of whatever she wants.
The feathers in s.H canceled into TK shot and Traps is a nightmare for characters, if she can do that all day, without the pressure of needing to end the fight, forget about getting close.
Other then that I'm on board with the rest.
Saves a lot of squabble between those that wanted Jean Grey and the ones that want to keep her as Phoenix.
A better Berserker Charge nerf would be to add slightly more recovery to its activation. I don't want Wolverine players to lose the only source of swag they have but the pressure is definitely too good on the character.
Actually if you nerf the recovery too much you won't be able to combo off B Slash. As would changing the dash speed. You can probably lower the block stun on B Slash then so that when he cancels into B Charge he has less advantage.
I am going to go to sleep and think more about Wolverine.
Actually if you nerf the recovery too much you won't be able to combo off B Slash. As would changing the dash speed. You can probably lower the block stun on B Slash then so that when he cancels into B Charge he has less advantage.
I am going to go to sleep and think more about Wolverine.
"God's Beard!"
Member
It's not causing any egregious balance issues, so I say leave it. Why piss off Wolverine players for "seems like it's enough" changes?
I mean, it only does the one thing, it takes away his meter gain and it's a hugely central part of his playstyle. Not like Vergil's Devil Trigger where he gets 15% speed boost, 20% damage, an extra jump and an airdash, all of his moves become cancelable, his hitboxes become bigger, he gets health regen and it lasts 50% longer than Berserker Charge.
But he has to use meter just to keep up the pressure. I don't think it needs any change. It just seems super good because he has to use it all the time or die.
Karsticles
Member
She can't safely spam outside of XF3. She gets mauled by a lot of stuff.
It's only +7 from Berserker Slash to Berserker Charge; hard to nerf that.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71714271]It's not causing any egregious balance issues, so I say leave it. Why piss off Wolverine players for "seems like it's enough" changes?
I mean, it only does the one thing, it takes away his meter gain and it's a hugely central part of his playstyle. Not like Vergil's Devil Trigger where he gets 15% speed boost, 20% damage, an extra jump and an airdash, all of his moves become cancelable, his hitboxes become bigger, he gets health regen and it lasts 50% longer than Berserker Charge.
But he has to use meter just to keep up the pressure. I don't think it needs any change. It just seems super good because he has to use it all the time or die.[/QUOTE]
I'm iffy about it. Not sure. I'll sleep on it.
God's Beard just reminded me how absurdly powerful DT is. Vergil's section is going to be nerf city.
I am mostly against nerfing BC too. I think nerf to his damage and his opening gambit are the ones that are really needed. The character is just way too linear, any drastic change would drop him in tiers hardcore. Like if characters could air dash away during pre match, Wolverine would not be top 10.
I am mostly against nerfing BC too. I think nerf to his damage and his opening gambit are the ones that are really needed. The character is just way too linear, any drastic change would drop him in tiers hardcore. Like if characters could air dash away during pre match, Wolverine would not be top 10.
I still say Wolverine's s.L should start up in 5 frames. But then again, that might just me being salty over it starting up in half the time as Dante's s.L. *shrug*
I'll try to think up some ideas for the characters after I sleep, and mull over the already suggested changes some(although I don't think Wolverine's dash should be nerfed imo).
I'll try to think up some ideas for the characters after I sleep, and mull over the already suggested changes some(although I don't think Wolverine's dash should be nerfed imo).
Looking at Vergil's DT, can Dante get 10% speed boost while in DT? ;P
DeadPhoenix9065
Member
True, a lot of crap can but can I have a specific scenario?