QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
He needs to be 1000 at most, he's too mobile for anything else.
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
He needs to be 1000 at most, he's too mobile for anything else.
Professor Beef
Banned
Swap Task's health with Sentinel.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I was thinking. Not going to comment on the swapping health values though.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Nah, but task should drop down into the 1000 range too
I look at it this way, Magneto right now is used differently than MVC3 launch. The reason people are so good with him because he has been explored and played with a heck of a
lot more than some of the other characters. With system and character changes, many of the balanced characters will be altered. For example, Magneto is so much more harder to fight when he is fighting with hidden missiles. If you remove HM, he is not as scary any more. Same with Morrigan.
Secondly, I have seen some shit being pulled off with Spider-man players that have put in the time with their character. And with the top tier getting nerfed, mid teir characters like Spidey will always be relevant.
As an in your face character, Haggar is very good already. He has a lot of tools that make him good when he is close. But naturally he will lose to good zoning characters. Its an age old Zangeif issue.
And in regards to Dante and Wesker, my buffs for them are simply giving Dante his magic series on the ground and Wesker's Rhino Charge counter back. Its not anything major.
Poltergust
Member
Cool!
Makes me wish I went to EVO this year, though. It was bad timing because I had a family trip during that time, plus it was the weekend of me getting back to Austin for college.
I think his damage should be lower overall (I think he's one of the few characters whose minimum damage scaling is at 30%... yeah), and some of his hitboxes should be shortened or have less active frames (like his s.S or j.S). I also don't think that meteors or that volcano move should come out at frame 1 guaranteed.
I really don't see any amount of system changes making Magneto not top-tier. He still has 7f Disruptor, incredible mobility, huge damage, great hitboxes, a fantastic mix-up game complemented with one of the best grabs in the game, etc. He's still scary even without HM, you know. He's one of the best rushdown characters in the game, and HM augments that, not grants it. There's no way that he and characters like Spider-man and Haggar are even comparable.
Let me put it this way: which character rushes down the best with no assist backing them up?
A) Magneto
B) Spider-man
C) Haggar
D) Tron (lol)
The answer is extremely clear here.
But Magneto is so supposed to be strong lol. Nah he is a 8 way-dash character, of course he will have nasty mixups. You know what I mean? He is designed to be a character that has quick high low mixups. But my problems with him are his damage, TAC, hyper magnetic longevity loops and HM. Magnetic blasts can get nerfed too. But if you nerf his movement, then I feel he is not going to be good anymore.
He is a hard character to balance.
Magneto shouldn't be able to make his air dash safe. Nobody else gets that without an assist. Blast is the only thing that bugs me about his character that isn't addressed with the system change (no TAC infinite, no mashing L).
Sentinel - he's mostly balanced. A small health buff. He's too mobile with WAY too much damage to put back at 1.2 million. 950k at best. No good reason he should have more health than Iron Man.
Sentinel - he's mostly balanced. A small health buff. He's too mobile with WAY too much damage to put back at 1.2 million. 950k at best. No good reason he should have more health than Iron Man.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I use Sentinel hardcore (over 10,000 matches with him on xbl alone...probably 20,000+ total) and I don't even give a shit about the health buff. There are many things I'd take over that.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
What are Sentinel's biggest weakness's besides easy overheads and his size?
Neither of those would make him a better character.
Iron Man needs a mobility buff hardcore. Out of all the air dash characters he has the worst one except for maybe Thor.
Sentinel should have way more health because he is the biggest target in the game. Unless the character gets a hit box reduction so that everyone doesn't get instant overheads on him.
Magneto is not "balanced". Any character who is top 5 is not balanced.
Dorm mostly needs reduction in base damage. He gets easier damage than Wolverine despite being a hybrid character.
Deadpool needs some buffs but nothing extreme.
Beyond this I will not comment because we still have to remain on schedule. I will say that categorizing characters as balanced is inappropriate because even balanced characters require minor changes.
Karsticles
Member
How did we come to be discussing whatever character everyone felt like?
j.S already gets stuffed by people know how to anti air or air grab well. It is not good in it's current state, but people aren't good at that stuff yet on average. s.S has a lot of active frames because it needs to destroy projectiles. You don't see rushdown Dormammu doing any work in top level play.
A damage need is fine, but 1D2C and 2D1C need a massive buff if they don't come out in 1 frame. I don't know if you played this game in Vanilla, but no one used anything but 3D0C back then because the risk was not worth it for the other two. All of Dormammu's spells need to be worth using, or the character does not make sense.
j.S already gets stuffed by people know how to anti air or air grab well. It is not good in it's current state, but people aren't good at that stuff yet on average. s.S has a lot of active frames because it needs to destroy projectiles. You don't see rushdown Dormammu doing any work in top level play.
Rushdown Dorm not doing any work at top level play?
Both Angelic and Ranmasama made top 8 EVO with a rushdown Dorm. Angelic barely even knows how to charge spells with the character.
Now I am not saying he needs a nerf in that department but the facts are facts if you want to start arguing tournament results.
The discussion sort of trailed off because the question was raised about who needed buffs and who needed nerfs. It was a fair question and clearly there is even discrepancy on that. I am going to punch someone if I see Magneto being referred to as the Ryu of the game.. fucking only Mag players say that. Magneto is more equivalent to Akuma, the Ryu of this game would be Taskmaster.
Both Angelic and Ranmasama made top 8 EVO with a rushdown Dorm. Angelic barely even knows how to charge spells with the character.
Now I am not saying he needs a nerf in that department but the facts are facts if you want to start arguing tournament results.
The discussion sort of trailed off because the question was raised about who needed buffs and who needed nerfs. It was a fair question and clearly there is even discrepancy on that. I am going to punch someone if I see Magneto being referred to as the Ryu of the game.. fucking only Mag players say that. Magneto is more equivalent to Akuma, the Ryu of this game would be Taskmaster.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
For me it's chicken blocking. Up back is a pain in the ass. It's very difficult to open people up with Sentinel since his crouching light doesn't hit low. I generally have to make very good reads with my air grabs and command grabs.
I have no idea why I'm awake after a long night of drinking. I need to take my ass to sleep.
Sentinel is not even supposed to be a mix up character. The problem is that he is always put into a position where he NEEDS to open up someone to win the game because he is left playing solo against 3 characters. If he was a better point people would consider playing him second.
The character ALMOST needs a rework. Faster flight speed is a must, faster air limbs, more block stun on Rocket Punch, adjusted hit box, higher health, Hard Drive fixed. Hell I would not mind a more controlled unfly/refly mechanic added to the character.
The character ALMOST needs a rework. Faster flight speed is a must, faster air limbs, more block stun on Rocket Punch, adjusted hit box, higher health, Hard Drive fixed. Hell I would not mind a more controlled unfly/refly mechanic added to the character.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I thought of something fun, what if they got rid of the unfly cancel trick
I thought you meant something fun.I thought of something fun, what if they got rid of the unfly cancel trick
Karsticles
Member
I have a list of Sentinel changes ready. Be prepared. ;-) I want him back as my point character.
And LOL, I don't even understand how the bolded could be said. That literally means...nothing to me.
Anyway, let's try to get back to our four characters. I was gone all of yesterday and don't have time to read every post, but what changes need to be made from this list?
Phoenix:
*Dark Phoenix health drain rate reduced.
*Dark Phoenix feathers now travel 15% farther.
*TK Shot (air) no longer makes Phoenix prone until she lands.
*Only one TK Shot H may be performed per jump unless in flight (as with Trish).
*New Hyper: Overload; Phoenix loses all health immediately; requires 5 bars, rdp.AA.
*Flight startup reduced to 14 frames.
*f.M reduced to 19 frames.
*Multiple Dark Phoenix characters are now distinguishable on-screen.
Assists: TK Overdrive H, TK Shot H, TK Trap L
Phoenix Wright:
*Bad evidence removed from the game.
*”M-Maya?!” L appears closer to Wright than before, startup is reduced to 15 frames, and the shield now benefits from damage scaling.
*Ace Attorney startup reduced to 5 frames.
*Stance Change reduced to 10 frames (from 20).
*”M-Maya?!” M and H startup reduced to 20 frames.
*”Get em’ Missile!” added as a normal move; charge back for 30 frames, then forward and M; startup is 15 frames, 10 recovery.
*Present Evidence and Paperwork air OK.
*Slip-Up startup reduced to 19 frames.
*Dash distance increased by 20%, total dash time unchanged.
*Hitboxes on normals improved slightly.
Assists: “Get em’ Missile!”, Questioning (becomes Objection when appropriate), Gather/Present Evidence (continues to gather through the L+S, M+S, and H+S inputs until all evidence is gathered; uses L+S if in Trial mode; if all slots are filled and he is called while in Investigation mode, throws away his L+S item).
She-Hulk:
*Lights Out startup reduced to 25 frames; horizontal hitbox increased.
*c.L chains into itself on block/hit.
*Taking out the Trash hitbox and invincibility slightly increased.
*Emerald Cannon hyper forces a wall bounce.
*Speed increased slightly.
*Emergency Landing (Catapult Cancel) no longer makes She-Hulk prone until landing.
*Canceling Runner’s Start has 0 frames of recovery.
*Slight increase on c.H range/distance, j.H hitbox improved slightly.
*Shooting Star assist causes significant knockback on block.
*Torpedo causes less knockback on hit; assist version startup reduced to 35 frames startup.
*Somersault Kick has 1 hit of super armor beginning on frame 5.
Assists: Lights Out, Shooting Star, Torpedo
Wolverine:
*Fatal Claw damage slightly decreased.
*Wavedashing with Wolverine is less likely to activate Berserker Charge.
*Berserker Charge provides slight red health recovery.
Assists: Berserker Barrage H (fully mashed), Swiss Cheese, df.M
Angelic made top 8 with Wolverine/Mystic Ray. Dormammu just cleaned up sometimes. He rarely did any work himself. And when I say rushdown, I mean j.S/j.H approaches, not teleport + beam. Teleport + beam clearly works, but that's not rushdown, it's just a teleport mix-up. Unless you think Dr. Strange teleporting behind Eye of Agamotto is "rushdown Dr. Strange".
And LOL, I don't even understand how the bolded could be said. That literally means...nothing to me.
Anyway, let's try to get back to our four characters. I was gone all of yesterday and don't have time to read every post, but what changes need to be made from this list?
Phoenix:
*Dark Phoenix health drain rate reduced.
*Dark Phoenix feathers now travel 15% farther.
*TK Shot (air) no longer makes Phoenix prone until she lands.
*Only one TK Shot H may be performed per jump unless in flight (as with Trish).
*New Hyper: Overload; Phoenix loses all health immediately; requires 5 bars, rdp.AA.
*Flight startup reduced to 14 frames.
*f.M reduced to 19 frames.
*Multiple Dark Phoenix characters are now distinguishable on-screen.
Assists: TK Overdrive H, TK Shot H, TK Trap L
Phoenix Wright:
*Bad evidence removed from the game.
*”M-Maya?!” L appears closer to Wright than before, startup is reduced to 15 frames, and the shield now benefits from damage scaling.
*Ace Attorney startup reduced to 5 frames.
*Stance Change reduced to 10 frames (from 20).
*”M-Maya?!” M and H startup reduced to 20 frames.
*”Get em’ Missile!” added as a normal move; charge back for 30 frames, then forward and M; startup is 15 frames, 10 recovery.
*Present Evidence and Paperwork air OK.
*Slip-Up startup reduced to 19 frames.
*Dash distance increased by 20%, total dash time unchanged.
*Hitboxes on normals improved slightly.
Assists: “Get em’ Missile!”, Questioning (becomes Objection when appropriate), Gather/Present Evidence (continues to gather through the L+S, M+S, and H+S inputs until all evidence is gathered; uses L+S if in Trial mode; if all slots are filled and he is called while in Investigation mode, throws away his L+S item).
She-Hulk:
*Lights Out startup reduced to 25 frames; horizontal hitbox increased.
*c.L chains into itself on block/hit.
*Taking out the Trash hitbox and invincibility slightly increased.
*Emerald Cannon hyper forces a wall bounce.
*Speed increased slightly.
*Emergency Landing (Catapult Cancel) no longer makes She-Hulk prone until landing.
*Canceling Runner’s Start has 0 frames of recovery.
*Slight increase on c.H range/distance, j.H hitbox improved slightly.
*Shooting Star assist causes significant knockback on block.
*Torpedo causes less knockback on hit; assist version startup reduced to 35 frames startup.
*Somersault Kick has 1 hit of super armor beginning on frame 5.
Assists: Lights Out, Shooting Star, Torpedo
Wolverine:
*Fatal Claw damage slightly decreased.
*Wavedashing with Wolverine is less likely to activate Berserker Charge.
*Berserker Charge provides slight red health recovery.
Assists: Berserker Barrage H (fully mashed), Swiss Cheese, df.M
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Haha it sounds like you're just making him MvC2 Sentinel.....well old school Sentinel in general. I've come to accept that he is not that. Man I miss the goofy ass shit he could do in COTA. I was pissed when I found out he was only an assist in MvC......still used him all the time though, even if Psylocke and Colossus were the same thing but better.
There's just something so fun about watching this big stupid robot doing all this karate and shit.
Teleport + beam isn't rushdown? Since when did we change the classification on rushdown? Also both players go for swipes a lot and Ranmasama goes for that stupid unblockable set up as well. The thing about top Dorm play is that neither a rushdown only or a zoning only playstyle gets you through, you need to play a hybrid style and adjust on the fly. That's how FChamp won EVO, he didn't lock himself to one playstyle.
The Magneto/Ryu analogy is what every Magneto player says when talk of balance comes up as a means to get away without serious nerfs on him.
ADD DECREASED WALK SPEED FOR WOLVERINE ALREADY!
The Magneto/Ryu analogy is what every Magneto player says when talk of balance comes up as a means to get away without serious nerfs on him.
ADD DECREASED WALK SPEED FOR WOLVERINE ALREADY!
Karsticles
Member
Why does Wolverine need his walk speed decreased if we are enabling superjumps and air dashes at the start of the round?
Rushdown means extended, in your face pressure. Wolverine can rush down, Dormammu can mix you up from afar. Huge difference. No one considers Hawkeye to be able to rush down just because he can df.H into a flip and then arrow someone. That's ridiculous. Regardless, the context of the discussion is j.S, not teleport mix-ups. Swipes are dangerous to go for. 9/10 times a smart anti-air is what kills my Dormammu.
We are enabling super jumps and air dash at start of match? Since when? THAT'S A HUGE CHANGE! If air dashes are allowed then ground dashes should be allowed too.
And Hawkeye can rushdown actually, he can pressure you with poison tip and he has good normals. In XF this is especially effective and his tick throw game is good. Obviously not his best attribute but he can get in and apply some pressure just like Dorm can apply some tri jump pressure some of which leads to cross up j.S into 800k damage. Opening someone up is part of rushdown.
And Hawkeye can rushdown actually, he can pressure you with poison tip and he has good normals. In XF this is especially effective and his tick throw game is good. Obviously not his best attribute but he can get in and apply some pressure just like Dorm can apply some tri jump pressure some of which leads to cross up j.S into 800k damage. Opening someone up is part of rushdown.
biosnake20
Member
I think Wolverine shouldn't have the ability to link his tornado claws. Fatal claw damage can stay the same.
Nah if you nerf the FC damage to below Berserker Barrage you not only make Berserker Barrage hyper actually usable in combos but most DHC options would lead to more damage than two FCs. He should still have the option of linkable FCs in case he is playing solo.
There is absolutely no reason FC should be doing more damage than BB.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Super jumps and air dashes before the start of the match? Oh goodness. Certainly not something I can get behind.
Why are we even making this radical change? This is a ridiculous buff to all air dashers in the game. So we gonna enable flight too? What about teleports?
If this is just because people are salty over Wolverine then please stop. Making aggressive changes to the system because of one character is a roundabout way of fixing things. Fix the character not the system.
If this is just because people are salty over Wolverine then please stop. Making aggressive changes to the system because of one character is a roundabout way of fixing things. Fix the character not the system.
I think someone suggested it to ShadyK and he said that would be cool. After that there was no real discussion on it. Certainly I did not know this was even being implemented, let alone considered.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yup, horrible idea
Karsticles
Member
Of course ground dashes would be allowed.
Hawkeye can't rush. A safe pressure string is not rushdown. Dormammu's c.L to df.H is not rushdown, no more than what Hawkeye does. Rushdown means you can create extensive pressure and open people up with that pressure consistently. It's not just having a good normal up close and a good blockstring. Anyone can open someone else up at close range, that does not make it rushdown.
This is one of like three things that take skill for Wolverine players. Let's not remove it.
Either no movement before the match, or enable more movement. It doesn't make sense that right now you can do the following:
1) Walk
2) Jump
3) Double Jump
Why do double jump characters get that kind of advantage, but other characters can't air dash?
Wolverine is NOT the only character with crazy walk speed. Fight a point Akuma or point X-23, and it's the same thing. There's no reason some characters should start with inherent start of the round benefits.
You all know that my #1 goal with this patch is making every character viable in every position (save Phoenix, for obvious reasons). Tell me how to make that happen without changing the opening gambit. Even if not superjumps, air dashes, for sure. You can't get higher in the air with an air dash than you can with a double jump, so that's fair, right? I can understand not wanting superjumps, but give me one good reason we shouldn't enable ground and air dashes.
Yeah, I don't like this either.
Agree to disagree on the semantics of rushdown but a bigger issue has now emerged.
I already know Akuma and X23 have high walk speed and so what? No one complained about point Akuma being god tier in first 5 seconds same for X23. Wolverine is the problem because of his walk speed, his option selects and his normals/pressure. We already nerfed one part of his OS and by giving him slower walk speed we reduce another aspect of his start of game gambit.
If Wolverine is such a huge problem for people then pick armored characters like Hulk/Haggar or pick Joe/Chun Li/Viper or pick a rushdown character yourself like Jill who has a reversal. That's why these characters
have such tools.
Every character is "viable" in every position but every character is not 100% balanced for all 3 positions. Viper can be played anchor but no one should do it because she has better tools as a point and she has unsafe DHCs. You shouldn't give her safe DHCs just because you want to play her second. Characters should have some modicum of roles in the game based on their toolset. Due to this some characters having a natural advantage at start of round is a part of the game and a design decision.
I already know Akuma and X23 have high walk speed and so what? No one complained about point Akuma being god tier in first 5 seconds same for X23. Wolverine is the problem because of his walk speed, his option selects and his normals/pressure. We already nerfed one part of his OS and by giving him slower walk speed we reduce another aspect of his start of game gambit.
If Wolverine is such a huge problem for people then pick armored characters like Hulk/Haggar or pick Joe/Chun Li/Viper or pick a rushdown character yourself like Jill who has a reversal. That's why these characters
have such tools.
Every character is "viable" in every position but every character is not 100% balanced for all 3 positions. Viper can be played anchor but no one should do it because she has better tools as a point and she has unsafe DHCs. You shouldn't give her safe DHCs just because you want to play her second. Characters should have some modicum of roles in the game based on their toolset. Due to this some characters having a natural advantage at start of round is a part of the game and a design decision.
Karsticles
Member
No one complains about Akuma or X-23's walk speed because Wolverine is better at it, but I promise you that if we nerf Wolverine's walk speed, people will pick X-23 up and we'll have the same problems. I used to fight an X-23 as my main sparring partner, and it didn't feel any different from Wolverine. Sometimes it felt worse because her dash is so fast.
Answer my question: how do you propose that we make all characters viable on point without making changes to the start of the round rules?
This is the opposite of my perspective. Only a few select characters should be tailored for specific positions. C. Viper is going to be a good anchor when I am done with her.
All characters are already "viable" on point depending upon the match up. It's obviously not everyone's best position and that's how it should be. I don't need Dante to be excellent at start of the round because he is versatile and can play numerous positions. However I do need Viper or Chun Li to be good there because they have unsafe DHCs and they need assists to be optimum. This is the game we play. If your character has problems at start of round then put him lower down the order or pick Lariat or counter pick the opponent. The only problem is one that has no answer and Wolverine has answers/solutions.
How is Viper gonna be a good anchor "when you are done with her"? You are going to give her safe DHCs options?
How is Viper gonna be a good anchor "when you are done with her"? You are going to give her safe DHCs options?
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I just don't think that's going to happen, nor do I think it should happen. Matchups, character advantages/disadvantages are something I love about fighting games. Whenever I play point Modok or Joe I know I'm pretty damn safe at the start of the round and that's one of the advantages of playing them on point. And I certainly don't think everyone should have that advantage. Wolverine's opening gambit is easily the most terrifying thing about him. Why take that away? And this is coming from a Chris player.
When you're playing point Dorm against Wolverine you are just fucking yourself. Yes it sucks, but I believe it's part of matchups. I do believe in making it not suck as bad....but kinda removing it altogether doesn't feel like it's the answer. Yes I'm aware that Wolvie could superjump and possibly keep up with you, but it's gonna make him a lot less scary overall.
I will say that your changes will certainly bring a lot more team variety and that is a very good thing.
Karsticles
Member
Dante is excellent at the start of the round...he can start the round out of every single character's range if he wants to.
C. Viper doesn't need safe DHCs because if you want her in, she has two amazing alpha counters that lead into full combos. If you want to be really villainous, you can cancel those alpha counter assists into her EX attacks.
This is not a Dormammu issue, please stop pretending that I look at everything in this game from Dormammu's perspective. I play fucking Firebrand on point, I have great start of the round gambits. They are so good that most characters can't handle him. It's not about me, it's about what's good for the game. Everyone should have strong options at the start of the round, and allowing air and ground dashes would be an improvement.
And stop dodging half of my point. I take time to make my posts and make my arguments, and you skip half of the shit I say while selecting minor points to counter. It's really irritating. Tell me why double jumps are okay pre-round, but air dashes and ground dashes are not. Why do a select few characters get to start out of everyone else's range?
I also plan on adding a few more assists that are alternatives to Double Lariat - you'll see.
I never said anything about not wanting matchups. I am talking about general point viability. I don't play point Dormammu, and I don't think I ever would play point Dormammu unless I were using Dormammu/Morrigan/Phoenix for fun. I'm looking to try and make Sentinel my point character, so I am completely unbiased when I am talking about double jumps being unfair (since he has one).
I'm cool with removing the superjump option - I just copied it in there from the ShadyK changes to think about later because I was rushed. I am still defending the idea of air and ground dashes being allowed, however.
XxSlasherMcGirkxX
Member
TB Wright's C.H. hits low. Every Wright player agrees.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Magneto is not broken. He's strong. Nobody complains about braindead Magneto players walking over everyone for free. Nobody complains about insane Magneto damage he didn't earn. He doesn't have any insane near-unstoppable mixup or endless pressure. He just has the tools to fight everyone and he does well at it.
I have no idea what this means.
I'm not willing to change a character based on how much damage you think his archetype should do. That's the definition of arbitrary. If it's not broken, I won't touch it. I'd rather fix the egregious problems and work through a variety of buffs on underused tools to make everybody more interesting.
You should probably avoid Street Fighter analogies. Akuma is a character that traditionally has a tool that only belongs to him, that opposes the majority of the cast, and gets additional layers on wakeup mixups that other characters don't get in exchange for fragility.
In Marvel, that means Zero. Ryu has a collection of strong tools that let him fight a variety of opponents. Like Magneto. 8-way airdash characters are the shotos of Marvel.
lol no we aren't. I'm also not agreeing to nerfing Wolverine's walk speed.
Karsticles
Member
Magneto is the basis of what every character should be.
1) Can be played at a low level successfully.
2) Great tools for a variety of situations.
3) Solid solo capabilities.
4) Good assist(s).
5) Very high skill cap.
That right there should be the design standard for every character in this game.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71952221]lol no we aren't. I'm also not agreeing to nerfing Wolverine's walk speed.[/QUOTE]
You should read the recent discussion before responding to comments.
1) Can be played at a low level successfully.
2) Great tools for a variety of situations.
3) Solid solo capabilities.
4) Good assist(s).
5) Very high skill cap.
That right there should be the design standard for every character in this game.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71952221]lol no we aren't. I'm also not agreeing to nerfing Wolverine's walk speed.[/QUOTE]
You should read the recent discussion before responding to comments.
"God's Beard!"
Member
You should read the recent discussion before responding to comments.
I did. If you did that, Doom would start fullscreen at the beginning of every round.
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";71953356]I did. If you did that, Doom would start fullscreen at the beginning of every round.[/QUOTE]
If you read everything, then you know I said I don't support adding superjumps, and ground dashes should be allowed. Tell me how Doom will start full-screen at the start of the round by bunny hopping around the screen with Wolverine's ground dash chasing him.
Edit: Also, isn't anyone bored with the start of the match options? Just pushing forward for a few seconds? I'd much rather have some intense footsie games going on as the game starts.
If you read everything, then you know I said I don't support adding superjumps, and ground dashes should be allowed. Tell me how Doom will start full-screen at the start of the round by bunny hopping around the screen with Wolverine's ground dash chasing him.
Edit: Also, isn't anyone bored with the start of the match options? Just pushing forward for a few seconds? I'd much rather have some intense footsie games going on as the game starts.
The most I could ever agree to during pre-match time was no movement. As that goes against Marvel tradition, I opted against it (even if I think it'd be a wonderful change) and hoped that the throw tech changes would make up for it.
Allowing full movement options pre-match is just asking for a ton of trouble. Morrigan, Magneto, Dorm and Zero would never be touched, Vergil gets even nuttier, Haggar would never be outside of command throw range, Strider would just be lol... Fucking DANTE, a character that struggles during the beginning of things, would wind up dictating match progression with plink dashes.
Allowing full movement options pre-match is just asking for a ton of trouble. Morrigan, Magneto, Dorm and Zero would never be touched, Vergil gets even nuttier, Haggar would never be outside of command throw range, Strider would just be lol... Fucking DANTE, a character that struggles during the beginning of things, would wind up dictating match progression with plink dashes.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Why does Dahbomb keep trying to tell people Jill has a reversal? Unless he means the hyper?
So basically now there's no opening gambit variety because everybody can plink dash.
I feel like there was a game that let you do this before and the beginning of every round made it look like it was being played by maniacs.
So basically now there's no opening gambit variety because everybody can plink dash.
I feel like there was a game that let you do this before and the beginning of every round made it look like it was being played by maniacs.
Karsticles
Member
I begrudgingly add this change, and return Ace Attorney to its previous startup time:
Phoenix Wright:
*Bad evidence removed from the game.
*”M-Maya?!” L appears closer to Wright than before, startup is reduced to 15 frames, and the shield now benefits from damage scaling.
*c.H (Turnabout) now hits low.
*Stance Change reduced to 10 frames (from 20).
*”M-Maya?!” M and H startup reduced to 20 frames.
*”Get em’ Missile!” added as a normal move; charge back for 30 frames, then forward and M; startup is 15 frames, 10 recovery.
*Present Evidence and Paperwork air OK.
*Slip-Up startup reduced to 19 frames.
*Dash distance increased by 20%, total dash time unchanged.
*Hitboxes on normals improved slightly.
Assists: “Get em’ Missile!”, Questioning (becomes Objection when appropriate), Gather/Present Evidence (continues to gather through the L+S, M+S, and H+S inputs until all evidence is gathered; uses L+S if in Trial mode; if all slots are filled and he is called while in Investigation mode, throws away his L+S item).
Double jumps are OK because it was a design choice and characters were balanced around it. Just like walk speed disparity. Chun Li has low health because she has reversal options, a triple jump and good specials for stuffing rushdown. Not being able to triple jump at start of round makes her a worse point character. Aside from Dante (who has a 8 frame jab), all characters who have a double/triple jump were generally design to be played up front. It makes sense when you look at who has it (Chun Li, Deadpool, Joe, Cap, Viper). If you disallow these characters from jumping at start you nerf their advantage and you make walk speed a pointless attribute on characters.. By allowing more characters to do other options you shift balance from these characters to fliers who already have enough advantage as it is.
I am not dodging any thing, I am on a cellphone and I can't make long multiquote posts. It's hard to post, go back to read quotes then copy/paste stuff and the longer the post the harder it is to manage all while writing
coherently.
And you can't have footsie battles "pre match" without attacks being involved. That goes against the definition of the word.
I am not dodging any thing, I am on a cellphone and I can't make long multiquote posts. It's hard to post, go back to read quotes then copy/paste stuff and the longer the post the harder it is to manage all while writing
coherently.
And you can't have footsie battles "pre match" without attacks being involved. That goes against the definition of the word.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
I suppose I consider point viability and matchups very similar in the sense that a characters point viability is going to depend on his matchup in the opening, haha. I know you were talking to Dahbomb but I didn't point out Dorm because you play him, but simply because he probably has the shittiest opening gambit in the game. He can only open against a handful of characters as I'm sure you're aware. But yeah I absolutely would not change that at all. I like characters having certain roles in the game and Dorm is just a character that is better played second. I mean you can play him on point.....it's just a huge risk depending on the other persons team. I personally love playing Dorm backed by Dark Harmonizer and missiles. If I can survive the opening then it's like infinite Stalking Flares and many lols are had.....and much hatemail is received.
I will stand by the point that I do think it's perfectly fine that some characters get to get away for free at the start. It's just a benefit of picking that character.
Ground dashes might be ok though. I'm not too sure about air dashes though. Hell I didn't like jumping when I first played vanilla....I was like wtf since you couldn't do that in other games.
"God's Beard!"
Member
How about a compromise? No superjumps, and your buttons get locked out.
So you can dash, but all your movement has to be done with the stick.
So you can dash, but all your movement has to be done with the stick.