Zero will probably reach minimum scaling after 9 hits, anyways.
And with it being nine hits, I guess it would become 9 frames x 1 low durability points?
hahahahgjhasjkdhfasjdfj;ljasdf
I want everyone with flight to be able to cancel their specials!
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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
And with it being nine hits, I guess it would become 9 frames x 1 low durability points?
biosnake20
Member
Gotta have at least one of them. Foul wind would be an awesome assist.
Karsticles
Member
Nah, it can stay as 3x3. It doesn't matter for 99% of the game's situations.
Man, Chun-li is so good now according to my patch notes...
It is canceled by EMD H, but EMD H has a 17 frame startup; more than 3x Zero's. You're not doing anything on reaction to snuff it out. Dormammu never negates buster shots unless Zero is dumb - all of his stuff has way too much startup time. Zero players use it at awkward angles from the air, so in practice nothing actually stops it.
I'm mainly talking game semantics, since beam durability is based on the amount of hits the move has. Needs some clarification, otherwise it could end up 9x3!
"God's Beard!"
Member
You said active frames, not startup. Which would have doubled the speed of the moves, which already moved the opponent much farther than attraction. Fair Wind only has 1 frame of recovery. There's a good reason these moves were nerfed before release. As much as I love them.
Dude, the hitbox is like half the screen, causes massive hitstun and you've knocked a third of the startup off it. I don't like tracking assists because they're braindead. And this is WAY harder to escape than Hidden Missiles or Vajra. And we're already gonna nerf missiles. Only if you qualify it as tracking the position your opponent has the moment Storm comes on screen.
Both of these are due to him not having anything real to do in the air, despite having a special-cancelable air move. I think you'll find that Spitfire xx rocket skates xx Spitfire is less impressive than you think, mostly just a way for him to run since he doesn't have a plinkdash and rocket skates has a lot of recovery.
I was trying to decide between that and making more of his moves air-OK, but the new oil bomb might be too strong and his QCB traps not useful enough.
Better to have more variety in his assists. Shippuga powered up has some utility, and L to H Hadangeki is a straight buff. Both is redundant.
I'll give you 180 frame charge and 10-frame startup on level 3 buster. It's a big move, but it's not one you don't expect coming. It's a megabuster move, it's supposed to be bigger charged.
It already does almost 400k. The benefit to Lightning storm is that it has half the startup of Ice Storm.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Now you're thinking with portals. Traps are the most underused assists in the game, only the occasional Trish or MODOK player has them. They need a hero.
Don't forget two Oil Bombs per combo
Xbox?
"God's Beard!"
Member
You forgot the best way to activate it with dante, Dahbomb.
Kill a character, Oil bomb assist, Acid Rain.
BLOCK THAT MOFO
Kill a character, Oil bomb assist, Acid Rain.
BLOCK THAT MOFO
Yeah. javelin fangz7. I'm on right now.
Karsticles
Member
I just want a list of things that would activate Oil Bomb so I can think on it better, GB. I'm not opposed to it, I just want more info on ways you see this working in practice.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72039841]You said active frames, not startup. Which would have doubled the speed of the moves, which already moved the opponent much farther than attraction. Fair Wind only has 1 frame of recovery. There's a good reason these moves were nerfed before release. As much as I love them.[/quote]
The active frames are basically recovery, though. I'll put it at 20, though. It's still a good improvement.
Vajra hits at 59 frames but is invincible for frames 37-53. This is way more risky with less payoff IMO.
Changed.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72039841]You said active frames, not startup. Which would have doubled the speed of the moves, which already moved the opponent much farther than attraction. Fair Wind only has 1 frame of recovery. There's a good reason these moves were nerfed before release. As much as I love them.[/quote]
The active frames are basically recovery, though. I'll put it at 20, though. It's still a good improvement.
Don't forget the extra startup assists get, though. All assists get 24 frames of startup added on. So you're looking at an assist that takes 66 frames to activate. Compare that to the 35 frames EMD L comes out at. You need to protect her for it to go off successfully, it won't be easy. I think it will be fine with good tracking, because you need to reward that protection.
Vajra hits at 59 frames but is invincible for frames 37-53. This is way more risky with less payoff IMO.
Okay, I'll accept this.
The net trap is amazing as an assist, though.
It's the M version currently, and I think that Sougenmu + Hadangeki L will provide more lockdown than Shippuga.
What about the hitbox and damage?
It only does 6K more than Ice Storm. I feel like there needs to be a slightly greater incentive.
Karsticles
Member
Edit: Should we configure everyone's X-Factor values?
Final suggested Phoenix Wright changes; I hope everyone will be pleased with the evidence system. "Get em Missile!" was removed as a point ability because c.H now hits low in Turnabout. While I like FSLink's suggestion, it would take a whole paragraph to write out, and I'm trying to keep things simple:
Phoenix Wright:
*Evidence now works as follows: meat is only acquired when Wright has red health to recover, bad evidence guarantees that the next evidence found will be good, and bad evidence rate has been reduced in general.
*Bad evidence now causes dizzy state on hit for 120 frames.
*”M-Maya?!” L appears closer to Wright than before, startup is reduced to 15 frames, and the shield now benefits from damage scaling.
*c.H (Turnabout) now hits low.
*Stance Change reduced to 10 frames (from 20).
*”M-Maya?!” M and H startup reduced to 20 frames.
*Present Evidence and Paperwork air OK.
*Slip-Up startup reduced to 19 frames.
*Dash distance increased by 20%, total dash time unchanged.
*Hitboxes on normals improved slightly.
Assists: “Get em’ Missile!”, Questioning (becomes Objection when appropriate), Gather/Present Evidence (continues to gather through the L+S, M+S, and H+S inputs until all evidence is gathered; uses L+S if in Trial mode; if all slots are filled and he is called while in Investigation mode, throws away his L+S item).
Final suggested Phoenix Wright changes; I hope everyone will be pleased with the evidence system. "Get em Missile!" was removed as a point ability because c.H now hits low in Turnabout. While I like FSLink's suggestion, it would take a whole paragraph to write out, and I'm trying to keep things simple:
Phoenix Wright:
*Evidence now works as follows: meat is only acquired when Wright has red health to recover, bad evidence guarantees that the next evidence found will be good, and bad evidence rate has been reduced in general.
*Bad evidence now causes dizzy state on hit for 120 frames.
*”M-Maya?!” L appears closer to Wright than before, startup is reduced to 15 frames, and the shield now benefits from damage scaling.
*c.H (Turnabout) now hits low.
*Stance Change reduced to 10 frames (from 20).
*”M-Maya?!” M and H startup reduced to 20 frames.
*Present Evidence and Paperwork air OK.
*Slip-Up startup reduced to 19 frames.
*Dash distance increased by 20%, total dash time unchanged.
*Hitboxes on normals improved slightly.
Assists: “Get em’ Missile!”, Questioning (becomes Objection when appropriate), Gather/Present Evidence (continues to gather through the L+S, M+S, and H+S inputs until all evidence is gathered; uses L+S if in Trial mode; if all slots are filled and he is called while in Investigation mode, throws away his L+S item).
"God's Beard!"
Member
I still don't think evidence assist is a reasonable change. We said no new moves and cycling through the slots like that will take extra system programming that could cause glitches.
Pretty much any projectile that can hit a crouching short character would activate the bomb. At least that's how I am envisioning it. That assist HAS to go in, its not going to be broken but it will be hella fun.
Please don't nerf the hit box on Buster. Charge time, durability change and hit point scaling is more than enough. Also keep Shipuuga for the assist. Sogenmu Shipuuga is not bad, sort of a mini lock down. Two projectiles that are the same is redundant. Zero not having 3 good assists is not the end of the world, he is going to be played point anyway.
Also what if PW gets bad evidence as an assist in the M or H slot? I too feel this whole system is a bit too radical.
Please don't nerf the hit box on Buster. Charge time, durability change and hit point scaling is more than enough. Also keep Shipuuga for the assist. Sogenmu Shipuuga is not bad, sort of a mini lock down. Two projectiles that are the same is redundant. Zero not having 3 good assists is not the end of the world, he is going to be played point anyway.
Also what if PW gets bad evidence as an assist in the M or H slot? I too feel this whole system is a bit too radical.
Fuck no.
Karsticles
Member
What if Wright just had L+S as his assist? Is it fair to give him a move that dizzies on hit every 2 assist calls, plus the opportunity to get 1 slot ahead of time or an evidence piece to call?
The two Hadangeki moves aren't the same, though. One is better for keepaway or protected rushdown, the other is better for creating pressure or mix-ups.
I will think up another assist for Wright.
These are the current Zero changes; let me know if they are acceptable.
Zero:
*Soft knockdown on Raikousen removed; hitstun remains high.
*Minimum scaling on specials and normals reduced to 15%
*Raikousen canceled by Buster no longer creates a hitbox.
*Hit stop during combos reduced for improved combo flow.
*Sentsuizan no longer hits multiple characters.
*Level 3 buster startup increased to 15, requires 180 charging frames, hits 9 times; projectile is now 9x1 durability.
*Health reduced to 800,000.
Assists: Shippuga, Ryuenjin H, Hadangeki H
I added Oil Bomb in the notes, I just want GB to feed my imagination with his visions. I think it will be less useful than the trap assist, but no big deal, since RR has two amazing assists. One quirky assist will be fine.
The two Hadangeki moves aren't the same, though. One is better for keepaway or protected rushdown, the other is better for creating pressure or mix-ups.
I will think up another assist for Wright.
These are the current Zero changes; let me know if they are acceptable.
Zero:
*Soft knockdown on Raikousen removed; hitstun remains high.
*Minimum scaling on specials and normals reduced to 15%
*Raikousen canceled by Buster no longer creates a hitbox.
*Hit stop during combos reduced for improved combo flow.
*Sentsuizan no longer hits multiple characters.
*Level 3 buster startup increased to 15, requires 180 charging frames, hits 9 times; projectile is now 9x1 durability.
*Health reduced to 800,000.
Assists: Shippuga, Ryuenjin H, Hadangeki H
Why did you guys remove Get Em Missile from TA mode? Man PW still looks like a mediocre character to me. :/
That's a lot of Zero nerfs but fine.... we gotta find some middle ground here. I accept them. Man I dread Vergil already, that Hightime 2 character pick up is getting nerfed for sure!
That's a lot of Zero nerfs but fine.... we gotta find some middle ground here. I accept them. Man I dread Vergil already, that Hightime 2 character pick up is getting nerfed for sure!
Karsticles
Member
Oh right, and do we want Double Snapbacks to return?
I'm not so bothered by High Time picking up 2 because it's a combo ender, not an extender. Vergil only gets combos off of that if he burns X-Factor, and I think that's balanced.
I'm not so bothered by High Time picking up 2 because it's a combo ender, not an extender. Vergil only gets combos off of that if he burns X-Factor, and I think that's balanced.
11 changes, and he got c.H as hitting low in TA mode. I'm not going to give him a 2/3 screen low that causes a wall bounce and a way to create self unblockables without spending meter. That's too crazy for me even.
Most of those 11 changes are in his less desirable forms. The best ones are using Evidence in the air, cr.H hits low and less bad evidence.
Also so what if he gets self unblockables? He's on a timer anyway and he's supposes to be godlike! I still say his LVL3 should refresh his timer, would make him at least Mid tier.
Also so what if he gets self unblockables? He's on a timer anyway and he's supposes to be godlike! I still say his LVL3 should refresh his timer, would make him at least Mid tier.
haha, I was trolling.
Anyways, my two cents on Buster as a non-committee member. You can increase the charging time, you can increase the number of hits, but do not change anything else about it imo. Lvl.3 Buster is pretty much 95% of Zero's gameplan, and he more or less banks everything on it. I don't like the idea of nerfing it any beyond the charge time. It's supposed to be good, that's why it's on a charger.
I really feel a 15 frame startup on Buster is pushing it waaay too far, and makes it not worth its charging time.
Karsticles
Member
Turnabout mode is basically Ouroboros or Spiral Swords in terms of screen control. You don't get to do anything for like 20 seconds. I think it's scary enough as-is with the buffs we gave it.
It still clears the screen and leads to full combos, though. This is how I look at it:
Gimlet fires in 9 frames. Buster shot is only slightly slower than Gimlet in terms of travel rate. Except Buster shot is 100% safe on block, creates mix-ups that lead to full combos, and doesn't cost meter.
Now, does a 5 frame startup time for that move sound right to you? I feel like, since it's still special-cancelable, a 15 frame startup makes it a great move still.
Poltergust
Member
I still don't agree with bad evidence existing period.
Hey if the PW fans are happy then that's fine by me.
And yea I just saw the start up increase on Buster.... Come on now man! 15 frame is too high for a projectile that is on a charger. You have to rescind that, the little guy has had enough.
Buster isn't omnidirectional tracking. The comparison is ass. 10 frame start up at the absolute maximum. Increasing start up starts to affect his combos and other stuff like his mix ups. Or else we veto you!
Ya I'm ok with them too... You win Karst. Only reason you win is cause if a patch does come, he'll be nerfed to shit anyway! LAME.
Karsticles
Member
Zero begging for mercy in my head gives me a feeling of elation. I changed it to 10 like GB suggested.
What about a third assist? Do you think L+S would be worth using?
It seems like the Wright players can't come to an agreement about evidence gathering, so I am inclined to leave bad evidence in place. If everyone were unanimous on it, I would change it in a heartbeat. If UglyWhateverhisnameis were to chime in, I would definitely listen.
I was gentle to him. You don't know what Capcom might do...look at Phoenix. 5 bars doesn't even mean anything these days.
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
Renegade here, lot of ideas.
SYSTEM CHANGES:
All uppercut assists retain at least 1 f invincibility immediate high knock up + air tech but get taunt animation vulnerability
TAC have 5 more frames to counter
TAC counters cause hard knockdown
TAC counters can be hyper canceled
TAC infinites removed
Xfactor damage/speed down across the board by 30%
Damage reduced overall by 20% (on top of any damage nerfs)
Ability to Crossover Counter in Air (maybe even after a KO)
PIE IN THE SKY (After hitting crossover counter, hitting S in air resets your character to neutral. i.e. they won't perform an assist and can execute a jumping attack)
Upon character death, player can select left or right entry. However this is immediately locked in, and the screen adjusts giving the attacker some time to react.
EVERY CHARACTER GETS 1 NEW ASSIST TYPE
Hsien Ko-
Decrease startup of pendulum
S cancels pendulum in jumping state
speed her up by 10%
lessen recovery on dash (airborne and grounded)
Armor lasts 10 seconds.
Gong assist is H instead of M gong
Add Dash cancelable normals
Make Spike Ball super hit high (gong) then low (balls) like in VS. Make it recover instantly while the balls bounce around. Make the command the demon command it was in VS.
Tron-
Give Bonne Flame assist back.
Give jump H not knockback like in vanilla.
Wesker- "nerf dumb wesker. Buff Smart Wesker"
Make counter super invincible till it counters again
increase normals damage scaling, but less command grab/throw damage scaling.
make S -5 on block (from -1)
buff counters to come on faster, be even on block.
Projectile counter immune to projectiles for duration (even recovery)
Make Maximum wesker not randomly cross up, more negative on block.
Phoenix
Healing field negates chip damage (jean only).
Fireballs can be flight canceled.
Health back to 400,000.
Dark Phoenix Rises completely invulnerable until she touches ground.
Feathers appear later on Down+H while in Dark Phoenix mode.
Flight activates faster.
Haggar
Lengthen invulnerability on Lariat assist
shorten active hit frames on lariat assist (so hit spins empty once)
make rapid fire fist combo if mashed
make pipe push back further if pushblocked
Doom-
remove hard knockdown on raw S Foot dive
speed up air/ground photon shot
make butter beam go full screen
make S -4 on block
extend hitbox of c. M
increase spins/chip of Doom Rocks assist
Storm-
Flight cancel Lightning Sphere
Speed up Lightning Sphere
Lightning SPhere OTGs
Buff Lightning Storm damage
Lightning Storm soft knockdowns
Increase DHC window from Lightning Storm
Flight/Dash cancel 1st lightning attack
Speed up Vert Typhoon
Make assist H Horizontal Typhoon
Tri Dash faster
Arthur
Shield Deflect can be held nullifies all projectiles
Gold armor Shield deflect nullifies hyper Projectiles
2 frame startup
Can Cancel Armor breaking into supers once landed
Lance charge (20f->15f startup, 1 hit armor, -4 to -1 on block. Gold version 2 hits armor?)
Chris
Can Special and Hyper Combo Cancel Prone position
Sentinel
1.1 million health
Drones stay on screen if sentinel is hit (as assist too)
Drones assist vulnerable for taunt
Can flight cancel Rocket Punch
nerd overall damage by 10%
Chun Li
Hoyokusen doesnt add to hitstun or damage scaling
Add in Axe Kick?
Allow EX SBK in air
Lightning legs causes less hit/damage scaling
Viper
EX attacks use 75% meter
Focus attack doesn't unblock able guard stun
Felicia
Full startup invincibility to Dancing Flash
Zero
Increase damage scaling on special moves
shadow moves only do 50% damage
Slightly increase lvl3 buster charge time
Vergil
Remove round trip glitch
Rapid Slash increased recovery (-8 to -13)
Default swords is blistering swords for 1 meter
Spiral swords costs 1 more meter, lasts longer, stay on hit.
increase recovery on teleports
remove giant backwards hitboxes on normals
Wolverine "make him more comic representation"
Berserker Slash has one hit of armor (still takes damage)
Add 4 frames of recovery to berserker charge
Remove swiss cheese
reduce damage on fatal claw
reduce life to 700,000.
All damage is red damage
Wolverine regains life while on point (even while being hit)
Wolverine heals faster while off screen
Dive Kick ground bounces grounded foes
Dive Kick more recovery on landing
Hulk
Hulk's strength increases nearer to death
lower Standing mediums hitbox
can perform gamma charge in air?
Captain America
increase backflip invulnerability
make shield slash medium durability (it's the fucking shield, dude)
Iron Man "bring back the SWAG"
Old MvC2 Smart Bombs back (attack+S), better arcs on them
Flight Cancel smart Bombs
double jump return
increase hitstun on all unibeams to allow followups in air combos
Diag tri dash sped up
Nova "remove derp"
reduce traveling distance on slide centurion rush (SJ air throws into full screen slide OTG is dumb)
reduce hitbox on dolphin kick
speed up tri dash
improve red life burning rewards.
Magneto "reduce damage while maintaining threat"
Tri Dash faster
Reduce damage on Gravity Squeeze
Reduce damage on jump H
successful force field counter can be canceled into flight on hit or block
She Hulk "bring her back to viability"
Give back chain L's
Give back slide
Chariot has 1 hit of armor, charging it gives hyper armor
Spider Man
Maximum spider projectile invincibile
web ball incapacitates longer
Super Skrull "make him less stupid"
reduce damage on inferno
increase recovery on meteor smash
Deadpool-
Replace up guns assist with horizontal guns
Teleport count resets when he tags out or DHCs
Firebrand-
health increase
damage increase
flying grab doesn't unblock able in guardstun
Morrigan
reduce durability on fireballs by 1 point
reduce damage on fireballs by (85 to 60)
reduce damage of soul drain (85 to 70)
Astral Vision Sister does 70% of morrigan damage
Vector Drain can be done in air
Ryu
Denjin state lasts 10 seconds (up from 5)
Denjin hurricane kick nullifies projectiles
denjin state hadouken 10 durability points
Overhead can OTG?
Spencer-
Remove Unscaled Vertical Grapples
Bionic Arm beats armor
Dr Strange-
Increase damage scaling on specials
Give him an air dash
increase startup of Read a Book
Nemesis
Tentacles drain meter (that T virus)
Earlier armor window on d.H
Bigger explosion on rocket.
Maybe can steer rocket a little so it can hit people?
Trish and Joe- ??
Hawkeye-??
Iron Fist- Give him a fist power up mode (glow fist) that ignores push block.
Ammy-??
Ghost Rider- ?
Thor- Normals need to be sped up all around.
Mighty strike startup invincibility
(WHY CAN'T THOR THROW HIS DAMN HAMMER, WHAT THE HOLY HECK CAPCOM?!)
Phoenix Wright- Turnabout assists back?
Make bad evidence toss better?
Increase Order in the Court DHC window
SYSTEM CHANGES:
All uppercut assists retain at least 1 f invincibility immediate high knock up + air tech but get taunt animation vulnerability
TAC have 5 more frames to counter
TAC counters cause hard knockdown
TAC counters can be hyper canceled
TAC infinites removed
Xfactor damage/speed down across the board by 30%
Damage reduced overall by 20% (on top of any damage nerfs)
Ability to Crossover Counter in Air (maybe even after a KO)
PIE IN THE SKY (After hitting crossover counter, hitting S in air resets your character to neutral. i.e. they won't perform an assist and can execute a jumping attack)
Upon character death, player can select left or right entry. However this is immediately locked in, and the screen adjusts giving the attacker some time to react.
EVERY CHARACTER GETS 1 NEW ASSIST TYPE
Hsien Ko-
Decrease startup of pendulum
S cancels pendulum in jumping state
speed her up by 10%
lessen recovery on dash (airborne and grounded)
Armor lasts 10 seconds.
Gong assist is H instead of M gong
Add Dash cancelable normals
Make Spike Ball super hit high (gong) then low (balls) like in VS. Make it recover instantly while the balls bounce around. Make the command the demon command it was in VS.
Tron-
Give Bonne Flame assist back.
Give jump H not knockback like in vanilla.
Wesker- "nerf dumb wesker. Buff Smart Wesker"
Make counter super invincible till it counters again
increase normals damage scaling, but less command grab/throw damage scaling.
make S -5 on block (from -1)
buff counters to come on faster, be even on block.
Projectile counter immune to projectiles for duration (even recovery)
Make Maximum wesker not randomly cross up, more negative on block.
Phoenix
Healing field negates chip damage (jean only).
Fireballs can be flight canceled.
Health back to 400,000.
Dark Phoenix Rises completely invulnerable until she touches ground.
Feathers appear later on Down+H while in Dark Phoenix mode.
Flight activates faster.
Haggar
Lengthen invulnerability on Lariat assist
shorten active hit frames on lariat assist (so hit spins empty once)
make rapid fire fist combo if mashed
make pipe push back further if pushblocked
Doom-
remove hard knockdown on raw S Foot dive
speed up air/ground photon shot
make butter beam go full screen
make S -4 on block
extend hitbox of c. M
increase spins/chip of Doom Rocks assist
Storm-
Flight cancel Lightning Sphere
Speed up Lightning Sphere
Lightning SPhere OTGs
Buff Lightning Storm damage
Lightning Storm soft knockdowns
Increase DHC window from Lightning Storm
Flight/Dash cancel 1st lightning attack
Speed up Vert Typhoon
Make assist H Horizontal Typhoon
Tri Dash faster
Arthur
Shield Deflect can be held nullifies all projectiles
Gold armor Shield deflect nullifies hyper Projectiles
2 frame startup
Can Cancel Armor breaking into supers once landed
Lance charge (20f->15f startup, 1 hit armor, -4 to -1 on block. Gold version 2 hits armor?)
Chris
Can Special and Hyper Combo Cancel Prone position
Sentinel
1.1 million health
Drones stay on screen if sentinel is hit (as assist too)
Drones assist vulnerable for taunt
Can flight cancel Rocket Punch
nerd overall damage by 10%
Chun Li
Hoyokusen doesnt add to hitstun or damage scaling
Add in Axe Kick?
Allow EX SBK in air
Lightning legs causes less hit/damage scaling
Viper
EX attacks use 75% meter
Focus attack doesn't unblock able guard stun
Felicia
Full startup invincibility to Dancing Flash
Zero
Increase damage scaling on special moves
shadow moves only do 50% damage
Slightly increase lvl3 buster charge time
Vergil
Remove round trip glitch
Rapid Slash increased recovery (-8 to -13)
Default swords is blistering swords for 1 meter
Spiral swords costs 1 more meter, lasts longer, stay on hit.
increase recovery on teleports
remove giant backwards hitboxes on normals
Wolverine "make him more comic representation"
Berserker Slash has one hit of armor (still takes damage)
Add 4 frames of recovery to berserker charge
Remove swiss cheese
reduce damage on fatal claw
reduce life to 700,000.
All damage is red damage
Wolverine regains life while on point (even while being hit)
Wolverine heals faster while off screen
Dive Kick ground bounces grounded foes
Dive Kick more recovery on landing
Hulk
Hulk's strength increases nearer to death
lower Standing mediums hitbox
can perform gamma charge in air?
Captain America
increase backflip invulnerability
make shield slash medium durability (it's the fucking shield, dude)
Iron Man "bring back the SWAG"
Old MvC2 Smart Bombs back (attack+S), better arcs on them
Flight Cancel smart Bombs
double jump return
increase hitstun on all unibeams to allow followups in air combos
Diag tri dash sped up
Nova "remove derp"
reduce traveling distance on slide centurion rush (SJ air throws into full screen slide OTG is dumb)
reduce hitbox on dolphin kick
speed up tri dash
improve red life burning rewards.
Magneto "reduce damage while maintaining threat"
Tri Dash faster
Reduce damage on Gravity Squeeze
Reduce damage on jump H
successful force field counter can be canceled into flight on hit or block
She Hulk "bring her back to viability"
Give back chain L's
Give back slide
Chariot has 1 hit of armor, charging it gives hyper armor
Spider Man
Maximum spider projectile invincibile
web ball incapacitates longer
Super Skrull "make him less stupid"
reduce damage on inferno
increase recovery on meteor smash
Deadpool-
Replace up guns assist with horizontal guns
Teleport count resets when he tags out or DHCs
Firebrand-
health increase
damage increase
flying grab doesn't unblock able in guardstun
Morrigan
reduce durability on fireballs by 1 point
reduce damage on fireballs by (85 to 60)
reduce damage of soul drain (85 to 70)
Astral Vision Sister does 70% of morrigan damage
Vector Drain can be done in air
Ryu
Denjin state lasts 10 seconds (up from 5)
Denjin hurricane kick nullifies projectiles
denjin state hadouken 10 durability points
Overhead can OTG?
Spencer-
Remove Unscaled Vertical Grapples
Bionic Arm beats armor
Dr Strange-
Increase damage scaling on specials
Give him an air dash
increase startup of Read a Book
Nemesis
Tentacles drain meter (that T virus)
Earlier armor window on d.H
Bigger explosion on rocket.
Maybe can steer rocket a little so it can hit people?
Trish and Joe- ??
Hawkeye-??
Iron Fist- Give him a fist power up mode (glow fist) that ignores push block.
Ammy-??
Ghost Rider- ?
Thor- Normals need to be sped up all around.
Mighty strike startup invincibility
(WHY CAN'T THOR THROW HIS DAMN HAMMER, WHAT THE HOLY HECK CAPCOM?!)
Phoenix Wright- Turnabout assists back?
Make bad evidence toss better?
Increase Order in the Court DHC window
Karsticles
Member
Haha, did you join GAF just to post this?
A lot of your changes are already incorporated. I'll read the rest now.
SloaneRisette
Member
Good games Marz! My main advice is that you probably shouldn't random super as much (at least in my opinion with Magnetic Shockwave, you were in a position to be punished a lot and have to either take damage or pop X-Factor earlier than you'd probably want to) and that if you can, like after I would Charging Star, instead of throwing, just straight up combo so you don't scale as bad. I don't know if you're more of a beginner or not, but you're pretty good so far, definitely. And I definitely need to start working on my execution more and working on Task/Morrigan more if I want to pick them up seriously, lol.
If I were to get my stick modded somehow and get marvel for ps3 would u wanna play? I play Zero lol. I'm looking for more ppl to play but some are only ps3 so I might have to get this game and stick modded for ps3!
It's supposed to be a one-shot move that clears through projectiles or punishes on reaction, that's why it's charge move. You see something and release the button. It's a fucking Megabuster. At 15 frame startup, it can no longer do that and it becomes comparable to any other motion projectile. Additionally, he loses a shit ton of combo potential because he'll no longer be able to combo into it since hitstun will wreck him.
As for its comboability or safety, sure it's annoying, but you can dodge it, bait it out, and even punish it in some cases if the other person is throwing it out without regard(like Buster > Lightning on block). If anything, make it so he has to charge 210 frames instead of 150. I'd be more willing to accept that than a startup increase.
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
Nah, I got approved as a TO in the whole Jaxel bro-haha.
SOrry, I followed think link from Capcom unity and didn't know there were different rules.
Wolverine is something I thought of as a complete overhaul to be more akin to his character. Not exactly strong but keeps on coming.
Armor on berserker Slash isn't that bad when defensive assists are buffed all over the place and Slash->CHarge is more punishable on block.
EX moves aren't worth a whole meter, come on. They're REALLY good... but the game they're based on has EX moves are 1/4 of a meter, not a whole bar. Besides, with damage down across the board and her unblockables removed, she'll need more of them.
He doesn't need a roll when he has Rising Fang with assist call to get in.
Although we aren't at Iron Fist right now.
GGS bro. I'm not really a beginner I just can't seem to do much online lol. Mags is my best character and I just can't do his or Sents fly combos online xD.
You killed me though. Dem charging stars.
Karsticles
Member
These are the changes that interested me; I'm curious what others think:
Too many flight cancel suggestions, IMO. Some of this is seriously "LOL", though, like buffing Bionic Lancer and buffing Viper's EX attacks.
Too many flight cancel suggestions, IMO. Some of this is seriously "LOL", though, like buffing Bionic Lancer and buffing Viper's EX attacks.
Certainly.
No new moves is the rule. Not sure about Rising Dragon on a whim...
I toned it down to 10 f startup / 180 f charge.
Ggs Vice! Fuck Nova and his stupid ass grab range lol.
Swerve. Now to find someone who can dual mod (probs will be impossible)
Swerve. Now to find someone who can dual mod (probs will be impossible)
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
Nah, shit disappearing is a cop out. you can already nuke the assist.
I made a lot of suggestions to improve projectile invulnerability too.
Flight cancels are REALLY fun, and to be honest, the flight characters (Storm, Jean, Magneto) have some of the MOST boring and least creative combos overall. Storm and Magneto Flight-> Jump H's x N? Jeez.
I made a lot of armor suggestions. Bionic lancer losing to armor is kinda dumb, IMO. It's the only 1 hit super in the game, I think?
The buff on Viper's EX attacks is to compensate for taking away her unblockables.
It's kind of of a big picture thing, ya know?
Some of the stuff was whacky, sure. But I just kinda spitballed a lot of ideas.
If we start with this 'more akin to character" then a lot of characters would require reworks especially Iron Man. We aren't here to rework characters but to improve them or not make them OP. Wolverine is already a lot like his comic counterpart, the only thing that is weird is Fatal Claw but everything else is fine.
Giving Berserker Charge 4 more frames of recovery would not make that series of Slash into Charge punishable. Brush up on your frame data. If it was punishable then that would essentially kill the character since that's like 70% of his offense.
Berserker Slash is a get in move while also being a powerful mix up and pressure tool. Giving it armor means it is hard to stuff out and you can throw it out willy nilly. It becomes a better Gamma Charge. Wolverine is not an armor/heavy character to justify having armor on any of his moves.
EX Seismo is one of the best moves in the game for 1 bar. Safe on block (positive in fact), highly invincible, leads into a full combo, huge hit box. Why are you comparing Marvel Viper to SF Viper? Different games. By that logic you should make her Burn Kick not hit overhead or not have her Focus Attack have hyper armor.
Before this patch I had a series of buffs I would like to see on a character in the event of a new patch. I had a big list for Iron Fist but a lot of it was new moves. At the bare minimum if Iron Fist doesn't have Rising Fang, he would still be low tier as hell especially when everyone else around him is getting buffed as hell. The character is just in a really bad spot and almost requires a rework. Rising Fang having a ton of recovery makes it fair IMO.
Karsticles
Member
Bionic Lancer is also the game's only invincible 1 meter move that leads to full combos with minimal damage scaling.
She doesn't need the unblockables to be good.
I still think 10 frame startup is too much, but that's just me. I tend more towards the buff and/or leave alone side of things than the nerfing side of things. I tend to only want to nerf the very obvious stupid bullshit like his damage and shooting lightning out of nowhere.
Like, I don't really like the idea of Sentsuizan hitting only one character, but it's not so drastic of a change to make me comment. Buster, though... that's Zero. Changing its properties too much changes him entirely as a character, and I don't really want that. It's like... Dante from vanilla to Ultimate was nerfed, but he's still Dante at the end of the day. Changing Buster too much would change Zero into something else, and I don't like that idea. Like I said, though, just my two cents.
Karsticles
Member
The buster shot is still really good. 10 frame startup for a projectile like that is really fast. I just don't think that Zero should be able to hold the charge and punish whatever he feels like into full combos. Give folks a little bit of breathing room. Otherwise I'd need a nerf to either it travel time or hitbox. Like I said, the thing is basically Gimlet plus full combos right now.
And Zero is supposed to be sword-focused. His buster always sucked in the games.
Karsticles
Member
I'm not pushing for more nerfs, I'm defending the state we agreed upon. -_-
I'm relatively happy with our Zero changes as-is:
Zero:
*Soft knockdown on Raikousen removed; hitstun remains high.
*Minimum scaling on specials and normals reduced to 15%
*Raikousen canceled by Buster no longer creates a hitbox.
*Hit stop on multi-hit moves reduced for improved combo flow.
*Sentsuizan no longer hits multiple characters.
*Level 3 buster startup increased to 10, requires 180 charging frames, hits 9 times; projectile is now 9x1 durability.
*Health reduced to 800,000.
Assists: Shippuga, Ryuenjin H, Hadangeki H
If Zissou and GB sign on to that, I say we are done with Zero. I could agree to a 5 frame startup on the buster if it takes 300 frames to charge, but I think it's probably better for Zero that we leave it like this.