Support NeoGAF

[Azure J]

It doesn't "lose" to floating characters it goes through them. The hit box of cr.L is on the very tip of the gun shot and if a character like Morrigan fits between Dante and the tip the attack whiffs. I saw this on a Vita to confirm. So you basically want a hit box extension on the move.

This is the more eloquent version of what I was saying, yeah.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Ew, no. You haven't done anything to help him open people up. No follow-ups after Chaos Dimension, that's ridiculous.

Other than a monster pizza slicer the size of Tron with an airdash that covers twice the space?

This is the only game where he can't follow up Chaos Dimension. That's his deal, he's THE level 3 Marvel character. He was the first character to get one.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72216311]This is the only game where he can't follow up Chaos Dimension. That's his deal, he's THE level 3 Marvel character. He was the first character to get one.[/QUOTE]
Akuma didn't have Raging Demon in his initial crossover appearance?

 

[Dahbomb]

Frank West is too hard to balance like Wright. Theoretically these characters when powered up SHOULD be #1 and #2 in the game otherwise they would be bad. Frank getting 15% nerf on normal chip is very substantial as it is. The Drink buff makes LVL1 Frank able to take a gamble more freely.

Also the assist you replaced is actually beastly when leveled up although with the nerf there would be no reason not to pick Cart over it.

I know for sure that Snapshot being punishable on HIT is stupid and an oversight. You don't need to make it -5 on block, you just need to make it more acceptable on hit. -25 on hit is RIDICULOUS!

Also a lot of characters have follow ups after lvl3, some even have full combos. Make Shuma's LVL 3 comboable!!!

 

[Karsticles]

Frank West is too hard to balance like Wright. Theoretically these characters when powered up SHOULD be #1 and #2 in the game otherwise they would be bad. Frank getting 15% nerf on normal chip is very substantial as it is. The Drink buff makes LVL1 Frank able to take a gamble more freely.

Also the assist you replaced is actually beastly when leveled up although with the nerf there would be no reason not to pick Cart over it.

I know for sure that Snapshot being punishable on HIT is stupid and an oversight. You don't need to make it -5 on block, you just need to make it more acceptable on hit. -25 on hit is RIDICULOUS!

Also a lot of characters have follow ups after lvl3, some even have full combos. Make Shuma's LVL 3 comboable!!!

I'm really worried about XF3 Shuma-Gorath taking out entire teams with 5 bars.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Akuma didn't have Raging Demon in his initial crossover appearance?

There were no level 3s in COTA.

I'm really worried about XF3 Shuma-Gorath taking out entire teams with 5 bars.

Clearly the solution is a 100% speed boost and no damage boost.

 

[Dahbomb]

I'm really worried about XF3 Shuma-Gorath taking out entire teams with 5 bars.

But you said Shuma can't get in as a solo character.

A lot of characters with that many bars and XF can wipe a team. X23 is one of them. Plus Chaos Dimension really ticks down the XF time where as its much faster with X23.

You can add that combos after Chaos Dimension are subject to max damage scaling. That wouldn't matter in XF3 but it would when not using XF.

 

["God's Beard!"]

You can add that combos after Chaos Dimension are subject to max damage scaling. That wouldn't matter in XF3 but it would when not using XF.

eww

 

[Karsticles]

But you said Shuma can't get in as a solo character

Getting in is kind of irrelevant when you have an unblockable.

1) XFC guard cancel something.
2) Kill that character.
3) Level 3.
4) Unblockable the next character.
5) Kill that character, building 1 bar in the process.
6) Level 3.
7) Unblockable the next character.
8) Win.

That's what I'm worried about.

Giving Shuma-Gorath a 100% speed boost would be pretty hilarious, but I can't back that, haha.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Getting in is kind of irrelevant when you have an unblockable.

1) XFC guard cancel something.
2) Kill that character.
3) Level 3.
4) Unblockable the next character.
5) Kill that character, building 1 bar in the process.
6) Level 3.
7) Unblockable the next character.
8) Win.

That's what I'm worried about.

Giving Shuma-Gorath a 100% speed boost would be pretty hilarious, but I can't back that, haha.

What a day for balance when we're worried about making Shuma as strong as X-23.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72218521]What a day for balance when we're worried about making Shuma as strong as X-23.[/QUOTE]
Her unblockable setups should get a nerf, too!

 

["God's Beard!"]

Her unblockable setups should get a nerf, too!

I will fight you to the death.

 

[Dahbomb]

Shuma becomes a great anchor?

Here's how you deal with that.

QCF + A2

 

[Frantic]

Those lists for Frank and Chris are pretty good, honestly. Only thing I can really think of are...

Frank West
[+] Roundhouse Kick L now special cancelable
[+] Snapshot 0 on hit
[-] Damage scaling reduction from 20/20 to 15/15.

I'm not so sure on the damage scaling one, but Frank West does ridiculous amounts of damage in level 4/5 so...

I don't know what Roundhouse Kick L is for, so I gave it some slight utility...? Maybe? Fake low canceled straight into high? Fake roll canceled into high/low? *shrug*

Chris
[+] Grenade Toss L now -3 on block, down from -7. Pushback increased slightly.

Chris doesn't really have a safe blockstring. I never pushblock him, since I can punish him with a throw or a normal if he's not properly assisted.

Can't think of much else. I'll stew on it a little bit more.

 

[SolarPowered]

Her unblockable setups should get a nerf, too!

Is it necessary when it takes three bars and X-factor 3 for the kill?

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Good god this thread.

So we're on Frank and Chris now?

 

["God's Beard!"]

How do you guys feel about S+A being Shopping Cart for level 1 Frank?

 

[GuardianE]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72219801]How do you guys feel about S+A being Shopping Cart for level 1 Frank?[/QUOTE]

Would it have the same properties as the assist? Also, does he lose it as he levels up? Does it change as he levels up?

 

[Dahbomb]

Frank doing ridiculous damage is the point lol. Plus with a 20% health buff he's not always gonna TOD even when leveled up.

I like the Grenade L change, put that in.

 

[Karsticles]

Shuma becomes a great anchor?

Here's how you deal with that.

QCF + A2

He'll already be a great anchor just by having the unblockable and the 8-way air dash and other changes. We're trying to remove stuff that prevents the other side from playing, remember?

Those lists for Frank and Chris are pretty good, honestly. Only thing I can really think of are...

Yeah, they're pretty solid characters right now. They just need a few touch-ups.

Frank West
[+] Roundhouse Kick L now special cancelable
[+] Snapshot 0 on hit
[-] Damage scaling reduction from 20/20 to 15/15.

I'm not so sure on the damage scaling one, but Frank West does ridiculous amounts of damage in level 4/5 so...

I don't know what Roundhouse Kick L is for, so I gave it some slight utility...? Maybe? Fake low canceled straight into high? Fake roll canceled into high/low? *shrug*

Snapshot +0 on hit might be a bit too much, since the difference in its hitstun and blockstun is 2. That would mean it's only -2 on block. I made it -5 on block, -3 on hit.

According to the guide (lol), Roundhouse Kick L bypasses pushblock. So if you do c.LMH, Roundhouse Kick L, and your opponent pushblocked as you start to do the move, it has no effect on you. The guide recommends mixing it up with Barrel Roll.

I'm all for a damage nerf on Frank.

Chris
[+] Grenade Toss L now -3 on block, down from -7. Pushback increased slightly.

Chris doesn't really have a safe blockstring. I never pushblock him, since I can punish him with a throw or a normal if he's not properly assisted.

Can't think of much else. I'll stew on it a little bit more.[/QUOTE]
Chris has safe blockstrings. s.H is -2 on block, c.H is -1 on block. I still like the change, though. I'll make it +1 on block.

 

[Dahbomb]

On the topic of Frank's L Kick. That's actually a big part of his mix ups. The straight kick is just for combos, the low version is for the low attack which he needs. The fake kick is for feinting the low then going straight into j.M paddle saw overhead or the Roll. Its an extremely effective mix up as long as you train your opponent to look for the low kick.

You don't really gain much from making it special cancelable IMO.

 

[Karsticles]

Is it necessary when it takes three bars and X-factor 3 for the kill?

Maybe. It's not really about the character that gets killed by the unblockable that bothers me, it's the potential that the next character could die without playing after that. That's even worse than Spiral Swords and Ouroboros, and we need to stay away from it. I do like the idea of a follow-up combo, but I'd need someone to crunch some numbers to make me feel better about the potential damage that can be done.

Good god this thread.

So we're on Frank and Chris now?

Yep. And a side discussion on level 3 follow-ups.

I guess I should move toward all level 3s having better utility. Let me make some changes...

Frank doing ridiculous damage is the point lol. Plus with a 20% health buff he's not always gonna TOD even when leveled up.

I like the Grenade L change, put that in.

Fair enough.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Here's the current list for Shuma, any last requests? I feel like he's the big body Nova with these changes.


Shuma-Gorath:
*Air dash distance doubled, total frames remain unaltered
*Mystic Smash is throw invincible
*j.S knocks down opponents right next to him
*Mystic Stare’s charge time reduced to 30 frames; assist now shares the point version’s functionality.
*Mystic Ray recovery reduced by 10 frames across the board; charge time reduced to 30 frames; durability changed to 5x1 for L version, 10x1 for M version, 15x1 for H version; assist startup reduced to 47 frames.
*Strange Gaze, jH steal 20,00 vitality and 1000 meter, damage reduced to 20,000
*Shuma-Gorath's hitbox, hurtbox and character model are increased in size by 50%
*Minimum damage scaling on normals and specials reduced to 15%.
*j.M animations switched.
*Untechable Time after Chaos Dimension increased to allow OTGs

It would probably be very negative on block; I don't see what it would be used for when there's the zombie toss.
.

For flavor. BTW, it's super hard to punish on block. But you can't really do anything with it. It's like his version of Dante's little guitar slide.

 

[Frantic]

Snapshot +0 on hit might be a bit too much, since the difference in its hitstun and blockstun is 2. That would mean it's only -2 on block. I made it -5 on block, -3 on hit.

Sure. Only reason I listed it was because the other list had no mention of what it was on hit.

According to the guide (lol), Roundhouse Kick L bypasses pushblock. So if you do c.LMH, Roundhouse Kick L, and your opponent pushblocked as you start to do the move, it has no effect on you. The guide recommends mixing it up with Barrel Roll.

Yeah, I don't see Roundhouse Kick L working that way. lol.

Chris has safe blockstrings. s.H is -2 on block, c.H is -1 on block. I still like the change, though. I'll make it +1 on block.

Well, s.H leaves him pretty close to his opponent, so characters with fast normals can still just push a button afterwards since his buttons aren't that great. I just want something to be relatively safe on block that pushes characters away since he's not really supposed to be in characters faces.

You don't really gain much from making it special cancelable IMO.

Fake a low, then surprise barrel roll! BOOM.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72222086]Here's the current list for Shuma, any last requests? I feel like he's the big body Nova with these changes.


Shuma-Gorath:
*Air dash distance doubled, total frames remain unaltered
*Mystic Smash is throw invincible
*j.S knocks down opponents right next to him
*Mystic Stare’s charge time reduced to 30 frames; assist now shares the point version’s functionality.
*Mystic Ray recovery reduced by 10 frames across the board; charge time reduced to 30 frames; durability changed to 5x1 for L version, 10x1 for M version, 15x1 for H version; assist startup reduced to 47 frames.
*Strange Gaze, jH steal 20,00 vitality and 1000 meter, damage reduced to 20,000
*Shuma-Gorath's hitbox, hurtbox and character model are increased in size by 50%
*Minimum damage scaling on normals and specials reduced to 15%.
*j.M animations switched.
*Untechable Time after Chaos Dimension increased to allow OTGs[/QUOTE]
This is still a terrible list. And it is not the current list. I spent an hour discussing my changes and then you just posted a bunch of random stuff.

j.S needs to be safe on block, since it's his only incoming mix-up. Make it special cancelable, and you have an interesting move.

He can't open people up with his current moveset. He needs an 8-way air dash.

Your Strange Gaze change is either pointless (you never use Strange Gaze in combos) or overpowered (Phoenix).

Changing his model is asking for all sorts of trouble; no way can you predict the effects that will have on his game, comboability, etc. It's far too big of a change for a patch. That's MvC4 right changes right there. You know I want him to be bigger, too.

The j.M animations do not need to be switched.

Mystic Smash needs a bigger hitbox; even if it can't be thrown, everything beats it in priority. It needs more.

The only thing from that list that's different from mine that I'm open to is comboing off of Chaos Dimension.

This is the current list:

Shuma-Gorath:
*Air dash movement extended to 8 directions; distance increased by 50%; total time to completion unaltered.
*Improved ground dash speed by 50%; total time to completion unaltered.
*Mystic Smash hitbox increased considerably; startup reduced by 5 frames across the board.
*j.S is now special cancelable, and characters knocked down by it during air series land next to Shuma-Gorath instead of far away.
*Mystic Stare’s recovery reduced by 15 frames across the board; charge time reduced to 30 frames; assist now shares the point version’s functionality.
*Mystic Ray recovery reduced by 10 frames across the board; charge time reduced to 30 frames; hitstun increased slightly on all versions; durability changed to 5x1 for L version, 10x1 for M version, 15x1 for H version; assist startup reduced to 47 frames.
*Strange Gaze now turns opponents to stone for 90 frames; aerial opponents fall to the ground; usable once per combo.
*Shuma-Gorath's hitbox is now more consistent during combos.
*Minimum damage scaling on normals and specials reduced to 15%.
*j.M hitbox increased significantly.

Doing stuff like air dash behind an opponent, j.S, Mystic Smash cancel to cross up makes him chaotic.

I am interested in him comboing after Chaos Dimension, though.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

This is a post I made about Chris a long time ago. The horizontal firing in the air I guess wouldn't apply since we aren't adding new moves

Chris

- Extend hitbox of flamethrower so that it can hit crouching Frank West (seriously I don't give a shit about any other character, but others would be fine too). OR allow Chris to call assists during flamethrower. I'd prefer the former but would happily take the latter as that could lead to some serious damage with certain assists.

- Gun fire can shoot straight in air with atk+S. Magnum will not cause wall bounce or hard knockdown as that would be too good. But I'd take it if people think it's ok.

- Reduced recovery on stun rod for safe blockstring. Or stun rod has increased startup but is overhead

- Grenade toss L has less recovery so comboing off of it is easier and less character specific.

- Grenade toss M does more damage plus hard knockdown. I honestly use this move for nothing other than very very specific combos and I'd like to use it more.

- Combination Punch L>M>H should be easier. Yes I can do it 9/10 times just because I've practiced it so much but I usually don't risk it outside of being fancy because the H is easy to fuck up on.

- Combination Punch M>H should be easier and magnum shot should never miss

- Sweep combo is invincible until Chris puts stun rod away.

I'd also like to add that shotgun should not miss at point blank.....it really pisses me off.

It would also be cool to be able to block after a j. down+H. Not necessary, but nice.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I feel like Chris' Shotgun being rotated up 15 degrees would solve a lot of Chris player's complaints about not being able to fight at that angle without losing the utility of the move or creating a new one.

j.S needs to be safe on block, since it's his only incoming mix-up. Make it special cancelable, and you have an interesting move.

He can't open people up with his current moveset. He needs an 8-way air dash.

The j.M animations do not need to be switched.

Mystic Smash needs a bigger hitbox; even if it can't be thrown, everything beats it in priority. It needs more.

Does Vergil's Helmbreaker deserve to be special cancelable then?

What does Shuma need an up-back dash for?

You keep saying that he can't open people up, but refuse to acknowledge that I gave him Nova's forward airdash with no startup frames and a more ambiguous crossup normal.

Mystic Smash's hitbox was made better by increasing the distance between his hit and hurtbox by 50%.

 

[Karsticles]

- Combination Punch L>M>H should be easier. Yes I can do it 9/10 times just because I've practiced it so much but I usually don't risk it outside of being fancy because the H is easy to fuck up on.

Added this.

- Reduced recovery on stun rod for safe blockstring. Or stun rod has increased startup but is overhead

Curious about thoughts on the second half of this.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72224431]Does Vergil's Helmbreaker deserve to be special cancelable then?[/quote]
1) Different character, different move. You might as well equate Hadoken to Dark Matter because they're projectiles.
2) Vergil has no aerial specials.
3) Helm Breaker is special cancelable on the ground. I'm not certain on whether I want to change that yet.

What does Shuma need an up-back dash for?

Air dash up-back when crossed under into j.S when a down-back air dash would not be safe. Think a little more before you ask this stuff; you're a creative guy. I know you're just being lazy and difficult.

You keep saying that he can't open people up, but refuse to acknowledge that I gave him Nova's forward airdash with no startup frames and a more ambiguous crossup normal.

This won't help. Nova's air dash works because he has the j.H/throw option select. Shuma-Gorath will want to j.M and will get air thrown instead or will have to go for the subpar j.H to be safe. That's just the very first layer of why that's a problematic addition.

Mystic Smash's hitbox was made better by increasing the distance between his hit and hurtbox by 50%.

They're not going to make him bigger for a patch. Let it go. It's a nice dream, but it's a dream for a new game.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Stun Rod overhead would be perfect. give it 24 frame startup.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Added this.


Curious about thoughts on the second half of this.

What's the current Chris list looking like?

I'd love that invincibility on Sweep Combination.

 

[Karsticles]

Man, where has Zissou been?

What's the current Chris list looking like?

I'd love that invincibility on Sweep Combination.

Chris:
*Flamethrower vertical hitbox increased, slight upper body invincibility.
*Grenade fires now dim significantly when the active frames have finished.
*Flame Thrower damage reduced to 120,000 maximum.
*s.S now cancels Chris’ Grenade Launcher and Satellite Laser hypers.
*Prone Position now cancelable (jump cancelable? Special?; arguable)
*Combination Punch H has one hit of armor from frames 5-12.
*Grenade Toss L +1 on block.
*Combination Punch follow-up inputs made more lenient.
*Stun Rod now hits overhead; startup increased to 24 frames.

Assists: Gun Fire M, Grenade Toss H, Flamethrower

I'm not sure about Sweep Combination becoming a reversal - I'm curious what others think.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Uggh, I feel like you're turning Shuma into a character he's never been. No combo after Chaos Dimension, 8-way airdash...

He used to be a footsies and fireballs character with an insane hyper.

At least give him something cool like Mystic Ray carries people to the top of the screen on block instead of just making him another goomba stomper.

He's a space alien demonlord, he needs weird shit like Ashura Senkuu, not tridashes.

 

[Karsticles]

It's kinda funny that Capcom has such a hard on for Shuma and look how he turned out.

He has the best animations in the game. Maybe the most animation work put into him of any character.

He's only bad because Niitsuma thinks characters should either have good assists or good point abilities unless the character's name is Dante or Magneto (etc.). Mystic Ray is an incredible assist, so Shuma-Gorath has to be bad in Niitsuma's eyes.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

It's kinda funny that Capcom has such a hard on for Shuma and look how he turned out.

 

["God's Beard!"]

In this game, all Shuma-Gorath does is jump into the air and Mystic Smash to get in. That's 90% of his neutral. I'm not changing anything about how he is in this game; all of your beef is with Capcom. I'm just making him better at what he does. Like it or not, Shuma-Gorath is an aerial approach character in this game.

Let's fix it! Make his wavedash like X-23s! More invincibility on his backdash! Make 2M jump cancelable! And for the love of God swap his jMs so he can go all Marvel Superheroes on people again.

Make it so that Vergil can't swipe Mystic Stare off his own body!

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

I'm ready for another round of games is any PSNer's wanna play?

 

[Dahbomb]

Make it so that Vergil can't swipe Mystic Stare off his own body!

That's actually a legitimate change. Although you have to make the same change for other characters too like Dormammu and Sentinel.

*Stun Rod now hits overhead; startup increased to 24 frames.

Best buff ever. Chris now finally High tier.

I honestly thought about posting it but thought it would get rejected fast. This makes Chris extremely lethal because now you have to worry about chip damage, throw game and overhead.

I feel like Chris' Shotgun being rotated up 15 degrees would solve a lot of Chris player's complaints about not being able to fight at that angle without losing the utility of the move or creating a new one.

That wouldn't solve anything because that's not really the area Chris is that weak against because that area is usually cover by a mine. The problem is when people are camping at the upper corner of the screen shooting downward, a space that Chris can only cover with assists. So if Chris for example had Deadpool's up guns or his M guns in the air, that would rectify the issue. To be honest, even if he could fire his measly pistol in the air straightforward that would be enough.

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

NO way making stun rod overhead would be stupid.

 

[Karsticles]

NO way making stun rod overhead would be stupid.

You're right, we should get rid of that Turnabout c.H hitting low, too. ;-)

 

[XxSlasherMcGirkxX]

You're right, we should get rid of that Turnabout c.H hitting low, too. ;-)

I see what you did there and I really don't care much for it.

 

[Dahbomb]

I honestly think upper body invincibility on Flamethrower is too much. Tri dash characters would have a shit time getting in on him and since it's special cancelable it makes it even tougher to get in on. That vulnerable hit box on his head is what makes the move fair.

As an assist it would double as a pseudo Tron Gustaff Flame with superior lock down, chip and combo utility. Just having Flamethrower as an assist would be more than enough... it's not supposed to be an AA move.

Fake a low, then surprise barrel roll! BOOM.

He can already do that. Making it special cancelable would mean if you cancel it too early it fails to become a real mix up.

 

[Karsticles]

I see what you did there and I really don't care much for it.

LOL. I'm just saying that giving Chris a 24 frame overhead isn't that big of a deal. It's bright blue and shiny so you can react to it, and honestly I always thought it was an overhead anyway. What's so bad about it in your opinion?

I honestly think upper body invincibility on Flamethrower is too much. Tri dash characters would have a shit time getting in on him and since it's special cancelable it makes it even tougher to get in on. That vulnerable hit box on his head is what makes the move fair.

As an assist it would double as a pseudo Tron Gustaff Flame with superior lock down, chip and combo utility. Just having Flamethrower as an assist would be more than enough... it's not supposed to be an AA move.

Yeah, it might be in retrospect. I'll swap that up a bit.

 

["God's Beard!"]

For the love you bear Shuma, Karst. 50% size boost goes on the list. I believe we're both gentlemen here. Improving Shuma is in both our interests. But I have to stick to my guns here, and if you leave me no choice, I will choose the nuclear option.

In the sight of gods and men, I swear you will rue the day I flip this switch. Once I do, there's no turning back for any of us.

I'm ready for another round of games is any PSNer's wanna play?

Let me finish dinner.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72229921]For the love you bear Shuma, Karst. 50% size boost goes on the list. I believe we're both gentlemen here. Improving Shuma is in both our interests. But I have to stick to my guns here, and if you leave me no choice, I will choose the nuclear option.

In the sight of gods and men, I swear you will rue the day I flip this switch. Once I do, there's no turning back for any of us.[/QUOTE]
You know I want the size boost, but Capcom would never go for it, and it complicates the character balance too much. You and I have no idea how adding 50% to all of the hitboxes on his attacks would affect the neutral game. If no new animations is a rule, remodeling and redoing all of Shuma-Gorath's hitboxes is definitely out of the question.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Man, where has Zissou been?


Added.



Chris:
*Flamethrower vertical hitbox increased, slight upper body invincibility.
*Grenade fires now dim significantly when the active frames have finished.
*Flame Thrower damage reduced to 120,000 maximum.
*s.S now cancels Chris’ Grenade Launcher and Satellite Laser hypers.
*Prone Position now cancelable (jump cancelable? Special?; arguable)
*Combination Punch H has one hit of armor from frames 5-12.
*Grenade Toss L +1 on block.
*Combination Punch follow-up inputs made more lenient.
*Stun Rod now hits overhead; startup increased to 24 frames.

Assists: Gun Fire M, Grenade Toss H, Flamethrower

I'm not sure about Sweep Combination becoming a reversal - I'm curious what others think.

Well if Grenade Toss L is +1 on block then I suppose Sweep Combination doesn't have to be invincible. My issue was that I'd either get pushblocked during blockstrings and Bionic Armed/Chaotic Flame etc or I wouldn't get pushblocked and just straight punished. It sucked.

It would still be nice if it was invincible. Fuck Spencer. Same reason I want Dark Dimension to be a lvl 1 that does 150-200k

 

["God's Beard!"]

You know I want the size boost, but Capcom would never go for it, and it complicates the character balance too much. You and I have no idea how adding 50% to all of the hitboxes on his attacks would affect the neutral game. If no new animations is a rule, remodeling and redoing all of Shuma-Gorath's hitboxes is definitely out of the question.

So it's done then? You would have the realm bleed?

 

[SolarPowered]

Somebody gonna die over Shuma today.

 

[Karsticles]

Well if Grenade Toss L is +1 on block then I suppose Sweep Combination doesn't have to be invincible. My issue was that I'd either get pushblocked during blockstrings and Bionic Armed/Chaotic Flame etc or I wouldn't get pushblocked and just straight punished. It sucked.

It would still be nice if it was invincible. Fuck Spencer. Same reason I want Dark Dimension to be a lvl 1 that does 150-200k

Me too, but I doubt anyone else would go for that...

Yes, fuck Spencer. I'm not even sure how I want to nerf him yet outside of what I have already done...

Somebody gonna die over Shuma today.

I would FT10 1v1 Shuma-Gorath mirror match GB over this if I could. :-(

 

["God's Beard!"]

Even if I agreed, you would still have to convince Dahbomb and Zissou. Try convincing Dahbomb that Shuma-Gorath's size, hurtboxes, and hitboxes should all increase by 50% and see how it goes.

Then it's in Dahbomb's hands. You best pray to the Lord of the Dark Dimension. Because nothing but cruelty awaits otherwise.

I would FT10 1v1 Shuma-Gorath mirror match GB over this if I could. :-(

Best of three sets, once in MVC3, once in MVC2, once in Marvel Superheroes.

 

[Dahbomb]

It's bright blue and shiny so you can react to it, and honestly I always thought it was an overhead anyway. What's so bad about it in your opinion?

Chris' whole game plan is about mine set up and chip... forcing you to block and take a massive amount of chip or try to attack and get hit by or trade against a mine. There will be many times where Chris will have you under a mine and you are blocking or a mine is about to go off and he is going to go for a throw. A lot of people have a bad habit of mashing after throw tech but against Chris that is a death sentence because mashing while the mine goes off is an instant kill for him as you will just mash into a puddle of fire. His ground throw game is really, really scare because of this... he even has tick throw stuff and his air throw game is good too. With an overhead especially with so much shit going on in the screen it makes his mine pressure game really scare. Get hit low? Die. Try to mash a button? Die. Try to throw tech wrong? Die. Get grabbed? Die. Now you get hit by overhead? Die.

Chris does have situational fuzzy overheads with Jam Session though so it's not like this would be a HUGE change but it would still be a substantial buff. I don't think this will make him "OMFG NEW ZERO NERF PLZ" but it's enough to place Chris up a tier. It would rectify a major fault in Chris and that was the serious lack of mix ups.

Try convincing Dahbomb that Shuma-Gorath's size, hurtboxes, and hitboxes should all increase by 50% and see how it goes.

This isn't a big deal balance wise but the problem is that this is an unrealistic suggestion. This requires reworks of every move hit box/hurt box, his character model etc. It's not as simple as taking Shuma Gorath and stretching him 50%.

I still support comboable Chaos Dimension but this change is just silly.