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[DeadPhoenix9065]

Spiral Swords is based off of the source material. You can't just change it like that.

b-b-b-but you, you have to upgrade the move first. When you start the game with him you only get 3. But I guess if Dante get's his upgrade forms, I guess Vergil should too

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

That's probably the best change I like on her. I guess having your throws lead to potential unblockable set ups is about all you can do for the character without adding/reworking new moves to get her a combo off throws.

You could have her recover faster from her throw and the low sweep from Feral Stance could otg.

 

["God's Beard!"]

If we still have slots, put that ML has more range on Wolverine. It's weird that the drag-in move whiffs sometimes.

The only thing I've changed since the first time I posted the list is Launcher -> qcb.S.

Tell me what you want his assists to be and I'll change it.

Swap Clothesline with Launcher Slam M and note that the assist has armor now.

 

[Dahbomb]

QCB rocket needs to hit at the middle of the screen closer to Nemesis otherwise it would be a useless move. It would have better frame data like I said, I am leaning towards -10 with some push back.


Also you guys forgot the most important Nemesis change..... BUFF THE DURABILITY OF THE ROCKET!

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

QCB rocket needs to hit at the middle of the screen closer to Nemesis otherwise it would be a useless move. It would have better frame data like I said, I am leaning towards -10 with some push back.


Also you guys forgot the most important Nemesis change..... BUFF THE DURABILITY OF THE ROCKET!

Haha, I was just about to mention it since I don't think anyone has yet.

 

[DeadPhoenix9065]

QCB rocket needs to hit at the middle of the screen closer to Nemesis otherwise it would be a useless move. It would have better frame data like I said, I am leaning towards -12 with some push back.


Also you guys forgot the most important Nemesis change..... BUFF THE DURABILITY OF THE ROCKET!

Or add something extra to the explosion similar to Phoenix's TK shot.

 

[Frantic]

Nemesis' legs has no hitbox, please fix that. A lot of combos don't work on Nemesis because of that.

Isn't that only when he jumps? Every character has no hurtbox on their legs when they jump(something that was changed going into Ultimate. Vanilla has hurtboxes on the legs in a jump). It isn't until they push a button that they regain it. It's just most noticeable for Nemesis since he doesn't tuck his legs like other characters tend to.

 

[Dahbomb]

Honestly the explosion itself should be a point of medium durability like Deadpool's grenades.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Or add something extra to the explosion similar to Phoenix's TK shot.

That's how it works now.

 

[Karsticles]

We're already at 11 changes:

Nemesis:
*Fatal Mutation now has full invincibility and grabs in a 360 degree circle; places opponent in a crumple state; startup time reduced to 10 frames.
*Biohazard Rush now has hyper armor on frame 1 until recovery; startup reduced to 8+1; vertical hitbox increased; recovers sooner to allow for post-hyper combos.
*Bioweapon Assault now better at predicting where rockets should fire; recovers sooner, allowing for post-hyper combos.
*c.H super armor changed to frames 8-27.
*s.H super armor changed to frames 7-24.
*Launcher Slam L is now +2 on block.
*Minimum damage scaling for hypers changed to 60%.
*qcb.S now fires a downward-angled rocket that hits the corner at full screen.
*Clothesline Rocket L: 26 frame start up, 0 on block(no rocket, soft knockdown); previous L and M versions moved to M and H, respectively.
*c.L now chains to s.L.
*Launcher Slam M now has armor from frames 8-29; carries over to the assist version.

Assists: Launcher Slam M, Deadly Reach, qcb.S


If someone wants to change the rocket, it's going to be hard. I think it's fine as-is with the explosion (10 hit points). Nemesis is not a keepaway character, he doesn't need to win firefights.

 

[Azure J]

So, I wanted to suggest the following addition to Dante:
+ Airthrow hard knockdown state lengthened for solo conversions

I'm guessing there was a 10 change per character rule imposed? I don't know if we're really willing to replace anything that's currently listed, but I know that both Frantic and AzureJ are okay with this buff.

Thoughts?

Nah, I'm not. Well, it's not so much I'm not ok with it as I feel like it'd make Dante too good and I don't want it over any of the current buffs on that list.

 

[Dahbomb]

You know a character is shit when you come up with 10 legit buffs and he still needs more.

Nemesis is not a full keep away character but he does have zoning presence. It makes no sense that a hard hitting projectile that does like 100K damage loses to weak ass projectiles. The Rocket itself should have at least Magnum potency.

 

[DeadPhoenix9065]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72416431]That's how it works now.[/QUOTE]

Well color me ignorant.
I was sure it didn't since I remember a low voltage H killed the rocket and still hit Nemesis.

 

["God's Beard!"]

We're already at 11 changes:

Nemesis:
*Fatal Mutation now has full invincibility and grabs in a 360 degree circle; places opponent in a crumple state; startup time reduced to 10 frames.
*Biohazard Rush now has hyper armor on frame 1 until recovery; startup reduced to 8+1; vertical hitbox increased; recovers sooner to allow for post-hyper combos.
*Bioweapon Assault now better at predicting where rockets should fire; recovers sooner, allowing for post-hyper combos.
*c.H super armor changed to frames 8-27.
*s.H super armor changed to frames 7-24.
*Launcher Slam L is now +2 on block.
*Minimum damage scaling for hypers changed to 60%.
*qcb.S now fires a downward-angled rocket that hits the corner at full screen.
*Clothesline Rocket L: 26 frame start up, 0 on block(no rocket, soft knockdown); previous L and M versions moved to M and H, respectively.
*c.L now chains to s.L.
*Launcher Slam M now has armor from frames 8-29; carries over to the assist version.

Assists: Launcher Slam M, Deadly Reach, qcb.S


If someone wants to change the rocket, it's going to be hard. I think it's fine as-is with the explosion (10 hit points). Nemesis is not a keepaway character, he doesn't need to win firefights.

If you want to knock down to ten, stick the +2 on Clothesline Rocket L instead of the slam.

Well color me ignorant.
I was sure it didn't since I remember a low voltage H killed the rocket and still hit Nemesis.

Probably just too fast for the explosion.

 

[Karsticles]

I say we get rid of the qcb.S rocket. I don't see it getting a lot of use with almost a whole second to punish if it's a bad read.

 

[GuardianE]

Nah, I'm not. Well, it's not so much I'm not ok with it as I feel like it'd make Dante too good and I don't want it over any of the current buffs on that list.

Oh, I misread your PM.

I don't really see why. In the current meta, it doesn't make sense to have such a pitiful throw game. Airthrows are central to MvC3. There's a reason why every addition to UMvC3 can solo combo off their airthrow, at least into Hyper.

 

["God's Beard!"]

If you put a hitbox on Nemesis' feet, he'll have to superjump over some characters.

I say we get rid of the qcb.S rocket. I don't see it getting a lot of use with almost a whole second to punish if it's a bad read.

The only use would if you made it hit near his feet so he has a non-hyper OTG.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

We're already at 11 changes:

Nemesis:
*Fatal Mutation now has full invincibility and grabs in a 360 degree circle; places opponent in a crumple state; startup time reduced to 10 frames.
*Biohazard Rush now has hyper armor on frame 1 until recovery; startup reduced to 8+1; vertical hitbox increased; recovers sooner to allow for post-hyper combos.
*Bioweapon Assault now better at predicting where rockets should fire; recovers sooner, allowing for post-hyper combos.
*c.H super armor changed to frames 8-27.
*s.H super armor changed to frames 7-24.
*Launcher Slam L is now +2 on block.
*Minimum damage scaling for hypers changed to 60%.
*qcb.S now fires a downward-angled rocket that hits the corner at full screen.
*Clothesline Rocket L: 26 frame start up, 0 on block(no rocket, soft knockdown); previous L and M versions moved to M and H, respectively.
*c.L now chains to s.L.
*Launcher Slam M now has armor from frames 8-29; carries over to the assist version.

Assists: Launcher Slam M, Deadly Reach, qcb.S


If someone wants to change the rocket, it's going to be hard. I think it's fine as-is with the explosion (10 hit points). Nemesis is not a keepaway character, he doesn't need to win firefights.

The hell happened to clothesline rocket as an assist? I liked that thing -_-

You could have her recover faster from her throw and the low sweep from Feral Stance could otg.

Quoting myself cause I don't know if anyone saw it.

 

[Karsticles]

Oh, I misread your PM.

I don't really see why. In the current meta, it doesn't make sense to have such a pitiful throw game. Airthrows are central to MvC3.

You could consider Dante to be lucky since his throw OS is left in tact while most characters lost it.

 

[Dahbomb]

I say we get rid of the qcb.S rocket. I don't see it getting a lot of use with almost a whole second to punish if it's a bad read.

He has nothing for that space though. Plus it would be useful for combos as well.

If you make a bad read then you make a bad read, that's life. At -10 with push back that's fine especially for a Rocket that does 100k damage.

Also I don't think this Rocket should be an assist. Either use Deadly Reach or the rocket not both. Keep the Slam, I want an armored assist from Nemesis.

 

[Karsticles]

Everyone happy with this?

Nemesis:
*Fatal Mutation now has full invincibility and grabs in a 360 degree circle; places opponent in a crumple state; startup time reduced to 10 frames.
*Biohazard Rush now has hyper armor on frame 1 until recovery; startup reduced to 8+1; vertical hitbox increased; recovers sooner to allow for post-hyper combos.
*Bioweapon Assault now better at predicting where rockets should fire; recovers sooner, allowing for post-hyper combos.
*c.H super armor changed to frames 8-27.
*s.H super armor changed to frames 7-24.
*Minimum damage scaling for hypers changed to 60%.
*qcb.S now fires a downward-angled rocket that hits the ground at half a screen away.
*Clothesline Rocket L: 26 frame start up, +2 on block(no rocket, soft knockdown); previous L and M versions moved to M and H, respectively.
*c.L now chains to s.L.
*Launcher Slam M now has armor from frames 8-29; carries over to the assist version.

Assists: Launcher Slam M, Clothesline Rocket M, qcb.S

 

["God's Beard!"]

The hell happened to clothesline rocket as an assist? I liked that thing -_-

Why? It's not a great move on its own.

 

[Renegade_Civil-War]

Some choice ideas from the GFAQs balance thread:

What's funny is that I though about reducing Wolverine to glass cannon status of 600-700k, only all damage is red health to him... and he heals at 50% tag out speed while on point and twice tag out speed when off screen. Snapouts and character death would still remove his red life. (I think)

Be more true to the character that he's the little guy who keeps on coming.

Probably make sense to reduce his damage by a lot too.

And yeah, I like that Nemesis.

Armor assist? Yes please.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Be more true to the character that he's the little guy who keeps on coming.

Magneto vs Wolverine 10-0 matchup confirmed

 

[GuardianE]

You could consider Dante to be lucky since his throw OS is left in tact while most characters lost it.

Hmmm, did I miss that change? I don't see it in the throw changes.

Fair enough. Figured I'd circulate it and see what people thought.

 

[Frantic]

Dante getting a solo airthrow conversion would be nice, but not necessary(especially with the proposed s.L > cr.L buff since he'd have something to help stop just holding upback). I'd actually prefer if he could convert off ground throws over airthrows... but that's because I throw people out of a lot of unsafe shit with ground throws, and wouldn't mind getting a proper punish!

Still, airthrows and what characters can do to convert off them could probably use a look over at one point or another.

 

[JeTmAn81]

BTW I think you people are all typing the Nemesis rocket motion incorrectly. My time playing Nemmy tells me it's QCF.S, not QCB.S!

 

[DeadPhoenix9065]

BTW I think you people are all typing the Nemesis rocket motion incorrectly. My time playing Nemmy tells me it's QCF.S, not QCB.S!

They want a new special move to be used with QCB S

 

[Karsticles]

Hmmm, did I miss that change? I don't see it in the throw changes.

Fair enough. Figured I'd circulate it and see what people thought.

Only b.H and f.H give air throws. Haggar can no longer pipe OS, Magneto can no longer tridash j.H OS, etc. Dante still can with his j.H box jump, though. So he is very lucky.

 

[Azure J]

I still don't get the point of this assist, and I can't put something in if I don't understand it. She still gets the full combos, right? It just makes it a little harder?

Attacks with a "Strike" modifier have a spinning knockdown for a few frames before the character flips out and techs normally. The change is to make Viper players think either in setting up the FA unblockable so the character stands and gets standard crumpled or to confirm the AA unblockable with something more than "slap face on controller into dead character, rinse and repeat."

It'd pretty much make the Thunder Knuckle H confirm the most legit way of doing a full combo off of a FA on anti-air.

 

[Dahbomb]

OK I just looked at the changelog of Nemesis entirely a few times.

He truly needs all of that. If there was a case where we could extend the limit it would be here.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

BTW I think you people are all typing the Nemesis rocket motion incorrectly. My time playing Nemmy tells me it's QCF.S, not QCB.S!

New move

Wait I thought we couldn't have new moves if it required a new animation.

Oh unless it's the animation from his super.

 

[Frantic]

Only b.H and f.H give air throws. Haggar can no longer pipe OS, Magneto can no longer tridash j.H OS, etc. Dante still can with his j.H box jump, though. So he is very lucky.

Sure he can. Tridash df, f.H.

I actually do that anyways when I play him because I'm stupid.

 

[GuardianE]

Dante getting a solo airthrow conversion would be nice, but not necessary(especially with the proposed s.L > cr.L buff since he'd have something to help stop just holding upback). I'd actually prefer if he could convert off ground throws over airthrows... but that's because I throw people out of a lot of unsafe shit with ground throws, and wouldn't mind getting a proper punish!

Still, airthrows and what characters can do to convert off them could probably use a look over at one point or another.

s.L>c.L is nice for catching up backs, but airthrows have so much utility in this game. Only being able to rainstorm when solo without X-factor is absolutely terrible. Dante is very much in the lower bracket of characters when it getting much of anything off an airthrow. Every strong character in this game has a great airthrow conversion with the exception of Wolverine.

And I believe Dante can convert off a grounded backthrow. It's just difficult and probably not practical.

Only b.H and f.H give air throws. Haggar can no longer pipe OS, Magneto can no longer tridash j.H OS, etc. Dante still can with his j.H box jump, though. So he is very lucky.

Oh, I gotcha. Well, most characters still have that option select, it's just not that good anymore because the normal they're option-selecting isn't a Helm Breaker or a Pipe. Nova still has his boxdash conversion, presumably.

 

[Dahbomb]

BTW I think you people are all typing the Nemesis rocket motion incorrectly. My time playing Nemmy tells me it's QCF.S, not QCB.S!

Its a new move (sort of not really). Same rocket shot as QCF but angled down closer to his body.

And no its not a new animation. Like stated the hyper shots use angled down animation.

 

[Renegade_Civil-War]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72418746]Magneto vs Wolverine 10-0 matchup confirmed[/QUOTE]

well, now let's not get carried away with ourselves. It's cool to throw nods to that stuff in there. There's a reason we're playing Marvel and not Arcana Heart 3.

That being said, you COULD make magneto's attraction/repulsion etc work better on wolverine, lol.

 

[SolarKnight]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72404651]
Net Trap working like Peekaboo would solve it but new animations are out.[/QUOTE]

I guess?

It was more of a "why doesn't it do this already" fix. I mean, you can already knock someone into activating boulder as long as the trap is set before they hit the ground. For example, pright now I can throw someone into a boulder trap and follow that up, Claymore too but it's much more unreliable because of its hitbox, but net does nothing. Sure, it could lead to infinites, but they could just force the second one to cause a tech.

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

Well I guess my game is broken. I've booted it up several times now and it just sticks on the checking dlc screen......wtf.

 

[Dahbomb]

The only change I don't really know about is cr.L into st.L. Why does he need that? I know you guys discussed this earlier but I need a refresher.

 

[Karsticles]

Alright, someone type up the C. Viper focus attack nerf in a concise manner and I will add it. I don't understand why it's wanted, but whatever.

Sure he can. Tridash df, f.H.

I actually do that anyways when I play him because I'm stupid.

I mean low to the ground. And he can't get OS off of his tridash anymore.

The only change I don't really know about is cr.L into st.L. Why does he need that? I know you guys discussed this earlier but I need a refresher.

More pushback in a blockstring, and c.L can train people to block the s.L and instead go into a command grab.

Well I guess my game is broken. I've booted it up several times now and it just sticks on the checking dlc screen......wtf.

GFAQs account spotted:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/637240-ultimate-marvel-vs-capcom-3/66803914

Or maybe a lot of folks are having the problem.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The only change I don't really know about is cr.L into st.L. Why does he need that? I know you guys discussed this earlier but I need a refresher.

Safe blockstring that keeps him out of throw range. Also gives him a couple extra little mixups.

 

[Dahbomb]

Focus Attack LVL3 unblockable now causes a strike effect on airborne opponents which they can quickly recover from preventing Viper from following up after it. Against opponents on the ground, FA lvl3 is unchanged.

OK yea Nemesis definitely needs that. I say leave the Nemesis changelog as it is, its perfect.

 

[Ghazi]

Well I guess my game is broken. I've booted it up several times now and it just sticks on the checking dlc screen......wtf.

I mentioned this earlier today, it also seems to be happening with SFIV, they must be prepping their servers for the Marvel patch!

 

[Karsticles]

Focus Attack LVL3 unblockable now causes a strike effect on airborne opponents which they can quickly recover from preventing Viper from following up after it. Against opponents on the ground, FA lvl3 is unchanged.

OK yea Nemesis definitely needs that. I say leave the Nemesis changelog as it is, its perfect.

I thought she could confirm with Thunder Knuckle H still.

 

[Renegade_Civil-War]

Focus Attack LVL3 unblockable now causes a strike effect on airborne opponents which they can quickly recover from preventing Viper from following up after it. Against opponents on the ground, FA lvl3 is unchanged.

I'd say make it just like in Street Fighter... if you're in blockstun, the FA can be blocked.
This only really can be done with Rose and (maybe) Sim though.

If not, it's unblockable.

 

[Frantic]

s.L>c.L is nice for catching up backs, but airthrows have so much utility in this game. Only being able to rainstorm when solo without X-factor is absolutely terrible. Dante is very much in the lower bracket of characters when it getting much of anything off an airthrow. Every strong character in this game has a great airthrow conversion with the exception of Wolverine.

Well, Zero is more or less in the same boat as Dante when it comes to airthrows, and that doesn't stop him from being the best character in the game!

Solo airthrow conversions are very nice, but not a necessity. I will gladly take a solo conversion with Dante, but I also won't go out of my way to argue for it.

I will, however, argue for a nerf on Nova's airthrow. Because seriously, wtf. 'Let me whiff my launcher and still combo you!' Bullshit.

 

[Dahbomb]

I thought she could confirm with Thunder Knuckle H still.

The strike would have minimal hit stun, she wouldn't be able to follow up unless she XFs.

And Dante gets full combos from air throws in XF. Stop complaining fanboys!

 

[The Mango Sentinel]

GFAQs account spotted:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/637240-ultimate-marvel-vs-capcom-3/66803914

Or maybe a lot of folks are having the problem.

Haha, no. Posting on gfaqs would cause entirely too much rage, I don't know how you do it. But it's comforting that others are having this issue.

I mentioned this earlier today, it also seems to be happening with SFIV, they must be prepping their servers for the Marvel patch!

Ahhh alright

And yeah I let it sit for about a minute and a half and then it continued.

 

[Karsticles]

The strike would have minimal hit stun, she wouldn't be able to follow up.

Is everyone in agreement that this should be the change?

By the way, if Firebrand gets the same nerf I will just drop him. He'll be a piece of shit no matter what you do to him.

 

[GuardianE]

And Dante gets full combos from air throws in XF. Stop complaining fanboys!