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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
"God's Beard!"
Member
OK, then let me put it a way you like to use. I've forgotten everything you've said. Make the case right now. Let's settle it. I was just trying to have an argument before you started making personal insults.
Professor Beef
Banned
I think we can do without the namecalling, Karst.
kevo_huevo
Member
alert the bipson bank. we've got a high stakes bison dollars ft50 brewing here.
Look, I'd much rather not see this all devolve into name calling and bad blood when the gist of everything we're doing here is to promote a better game period. Can we all agree to disagree on this one and just start taking closer looks at things being said or going unsaid?
FWIW I believe a universal damage nerf is neither here nor there after thinking harder about it. We're already taking care of individual character damage well enough. The damage nerf came at a time when we were just doing a theory patch note and entertained the thought of a Marvel 3 with more instances of Marvel 2's neutral game and reset based play. While the idea is still tantalizing, the moment this became a thing we could get out there for Ono and Capcom's consideration, I began to understand the reigning in on "wishful thinking" for the sake of a more presentable and palatable set of balance changes and system tweaks.
FWIW I believe a universal damage nerf is neither here nor there after thinking harder about it. We're already taking care of individual character damage well enough. The damage nerf came at a time when we were just doing a theory patch note and entertained the thought of a Marvel 3 with more instances of Marvel 2's neutral game and reset based play. While the idea is still tantalizing, the moment this became a thing we could get out there for Ono and Capcom's consideration, I began to understand the reigning in on "wishful thinking" for the sake of a more presentable and palatable set of balance changes and system tweaks.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Is Spiral Swords really blocking the projectiles or can Vergil just block quickly enough?
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72391891]OK, then let me put it a way you like to use. I've forgotten everything you've said. Make the case right now. Let's settle it. I was just trying to have an argument before you started making personal insults.[/QUOTE]
The game is better off being reset-oriented. It forces players to learn more of their character toolsets, it makes the game less one-sided once someone gets a hit (notice that at high level play, whoever gets the first hit tends to win), and it increases the value of team support by needing all 3 characters to be able to support one another well (as opposed to point/support/anchor right now, which is very limiting and getting old fast). Resets are also very hype, far more interesting than watching 15 second ToD combos, and far more interesting to play against as well.
The only insult I made was how you bring things up long after they're done and just say "oh yeah I'm not supporting that". Sometimes comments get passed over, but when mine get passed over I make sure to repeat them, and I make sure to engage with people so that I am heard. I don't say something, stop posting about it for 3 or 4 days, and then bring it back up later. That's just a shitty way to communicate, and it's very tiring and hinders progress.
The game is better off being reset-oriented. It forces players to learn more of their character toolsets, it makes the game less one-sided once someone gets a hit (notice that at high level play, whoever gets the first hit tends to win), and it increases the value of team support by needing all 3 characters to be able to support one another well (as opposed to point/support/anchor right now, which is very limiting and getting old fast). Resets are also very hype, far more interesting than watching 15 second ToD combos, and far more interesting to play against as well.
The only insult I made was how you bring things up long after they're done and just say "oh yeah I'm not supporting that". Sometimes comments get passed over, but when mine get passed over I make sure to repeat them, and I make sure to engage with people so that I am heard. I don't say something, stop posting about it for 3 or 4 days, and then bring it back up later. That's just a shitty way to communicate, and it's very tiring and hinders progress.
Mostly because of terrible game at super jump height. The combos that you are seeing are optimized combos off of grounded hit... but that doesn't give the whole picture. RR not being able to convert aerial stray hits easily is what lowers his damage potential. His small hit boxes don't help. Compare this with Firebrand who has a dive kick and Bon Voyage he can do in the air to grip opponents into a corner and start his game.
As far as FB goes, he should get a damage buff (along with other buffs) along with significant nerf on his unblockable.
Not really because SS is going to be 2 bars.
I am not warmed up to the idea still. He gave the reason that Storm Float wasn't a good idea in Vanilla because stuff like Tron, Akuma and Lariat existed.... well 2 of those still exist and now people have started using Missiles. And there will be better assists in this version of the game so that's even less reason to bring it back.
BTW Storm can still call assists after float but it has to be after a normal jump. You can probably do stuff like 3 Lightning Attacks straight up from the ground, float and call an assist. Maybe, been a long time since I played Ultimate Storm.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Resets are more exciting than new long combo #378478403719
Professor Beef
Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72392876]Is Spiral Swords really blocking the projectiles or can Vergil just block quickly enough?[/QUOTE]
The vertical hitbox on SS is surprisingly suspect.
The vertical hitbox on SS is surprisingly suspect.
Karsticles
Member
We gave him the ability to convert off of superjump height hits, though. That's what the additional j.S hitstun and Rocket Skates being j.S cancelable were about. Now he can staircase down.
I'm curious what this unblockable nerf is.
I do like this thought.
SolarKnight
Member
Alright, fine, I'll drop the damage argument.
Btw, do you guys have the current frame data for the bear trap? I'm curious about something.
Btw, do you guys have the current frame data for the bear trap? I'm curious about something.
Definitely agreed, but I can also understand where Beard is coming from. He doesn't want the masses who've stuck with the game's iterations and its high risk/high reward to become alienated with a sweeping change that might require more experimentation and data for optimal satisfaction among players.
At the same time, I think everyone agrees that if there were more instances of peace and more instances where characters live through one another's combos, there would be less griping over "that one randumb button/special/super" deciding a match.
Edit: Re-evaluating the vertical hitbox on Spiral Swords is actually a really good idea.
Karsticles
Member
27 startup, 8 recovery, +22 on block and hit.
By that logic, we should leave in TAC infinites, too. The people who have stuck with the game have tolerated all of the BS because there's nothing else on the market like it. They don't love it. It's part of the reason why people say Marvel makes you salty even when you win: the ToD nature makes one feel a bit shameful about the beating the opponent gets.
SolarPowered
Member
We can expect better from them. There is nothing big about this damage nerf that Capcom can't handle.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I 100% agree with you. I don't think it necessitates Hsien-Ko or Arthur or Rocket Raccoon getting a damage nerf.
If I was smarter, I could think up all the possible arguments in one day. The only other time I did that was Shuma and that was half trolling because I'm the sort of guy that dresses up as him and raps on youtube.
I did try to repeat my arguments with more information because I felt like the reasons for the 20% nerf weren't satisfying. I feel like every reason people bring up for a damage nerf is better solved with individual nerfs. Why is 20% across the board the best way to make the game more reset-centric?
Actually, you called me a bitch twice.
I haven't given FB much thought... well except for his unblockable.
Basically the same change as Viper. Aerial hit from the unblockable leads to a minimum hit stun strike effect that the person can recover out of and FB can't combo off of (unless he X factors on hit). On the ground the unblockable remains the same, it causes that stagger animation.
Obviously for compensation he would be getting buffs to his tools, assists and damage.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Can you float after an airdash?
SolarPowered
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72394726]I did try to repeat my arguments with more information because I felt like the reasons for the 20% nerf weren't satisfying. I feel like every reason people bring up for a damage nerf is better solved with individual nerfs. Why is 20% across the board the best way to make the game more reset-centric?[/QUOTE]
This way no one dodges the damage reduction. Japan has a funny way of missing obvious stuff with top tiers that ends up blowing up in everyone's face. Capcom is especially good at this.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72394726]I 100% agree with you. I don't think it necessitates Hsien-Ko or Arthur or Rocket Raccoon getting a damage nerf.[/QUOTE]
Depends on whether or not the new versions can handle the nerf. We haven't gotten to Hsien-Ko yet. You can argue about the other two with Dahbomb and Karst. Maybe they can't handle the damage reduction, maybe they can.
This way no one dodges the damage reduction. Japan has a funny way of missing obvious stuff with top tiers that ends up blowing up in everyone's face. Capcom is especially good at this.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72394726]I 100% agree with you. I don't think it necessitates Hsien-Ko or Arthur or Rocket Raccoon getting a damage nerf.[/QUOTE]
Depends on whether or not the new versions can handle the nerf. We haven't gotten to Hsien-Ko yet. You can argue about the other two with Dahbomb and Karst. Maybe they can't handle the damage reduction, maybe they can.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72395026]Can you float after an airdash?[/QUOTE]
You can but the issue here is being allowed to call an assist during float. I am not sure on this because they changed it from Vanilla to Ultimate and I mostly played Storm during Vanilla days.
Also we are discussing RR right now. You think RR is getting screwed over by the health increase? Say so and state why he should get damage increase to compensate. Right now I am 50/50 on this. Average damage from RR is not that great obviously but great mix ups and now having more solid aerial confirms improves his game a lot.
Hsien Ko and Arthur are shit characters to begin even in a current high damage game. They need a lot more than just damage increases to be worthwhile picks.
You can but the issue here is being allowed to call an assist during float. I am not sure on this because they changed it from Vanilla to Ultimate and I mostly played Storm during Vanilla days.
Also we are discussing RR right now. You think RR is getting screwed over by the health increase? Say so and state why he should get damage increase to compensate. Right now I am 50/50 on this. Average damage from RR is not that great obviously but great mix ups and now having more solid aerial confirms improves his game a lot.
Hsien Ko and Arthur are shit characters to begin even in a current high damage game. They need a lot more than just damage increases to be worthwhile picks.
"God's Beard!"
Member
But you also make a lot of characters unfaily weak and then if you just buff those characters then you're just doing the individual characters backwards.
Karsticles
Member
All of my Firebrand unblockables are against grounded characters, FYI. Actually, almost every Firebrand unblockable is against a grounded character. It's just Tenderizer that sets up aerial unblockables, and I think we should just make a small change to Tenderizer H (or remove it, which I plan on doing).
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72395701]But you also make a lot of characters unfaily weak and then if you just buff those characters then you're just doing the individual characters backwards.[/QUOTE]
Alright then start listing characters who become "unfairly weak" in this new system so when we get to them we can address them accordingly. We are trying to address RR right now but you are dodging. The other characters who had a problem with damage were addressed.
You also have to bear in mind that characters who are currently shit are going to get like 10 buffs. So characters like Hsien Ko, Arthur, Chun Li who are low tier and struggle with damage are going to adjusted... as with slightly higher characters like Ryu, Captain America who even though do decent damage they lack tools to consistently land hits or apply pressure.
Alright then start listing characters who become "unfairly weak" in this new system so when we get to them we can address them accordingly. We are trying to address RR right now but you are dodging. The other characters who had a problem with damage were addressed.
You also have to bear in mind that characters who are currently shit are going to get like 10 buffs. So characters like Hsien Ko, Arthur, Chun Li who are low tier and struggle with damage are going to adjusted... as with slightly higher characters like Ryu, Captain America who even though do decent damage they lack tools to consistently land hits or apply pressure.
I was about to say just make Tenderizer into L version. Actually makes the assist usable for more than 2 characters.
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
Numerous top players have postulated that the game should be played on low damage settings such as F champ and Yipes.
And yes, low damage benefits chip strategies and characters who can still manage to do high damage EVEN more.
However. The game is simply ridiculous right now. There are TODs all over the place. Almost any character can pop Xfactor and kill one character meterless, incoming mixup then use a level 3 and kill a second character.
Lower damage may actually make the high health characters matter, because right now there's not a lot of functional difference between thor and zero.
And yes, low damage benefits chip strategies and characters who can still manage to do high damage EVEN more.
However. The game is simply ridiculous right now. There are TODs all over the place. Almost any character can pop Xfactor and kill one character meterless, incoming mixup then use a level 3 and kill a second character.
Lower damage may actually make the high health characters matter, because right now there's not a lot of functional difference between thor and zero.
Hahaha, this is great. True as well.
Sometimes I wish if I had more to give to these discussions than to randomly play devil's advocate for both parties.
No lies, if every character was guaranteed to get powerful new sets of things to play with and further refinement to their play, moves or underlying math and this damage nerf went down, I personally think it'd be the best Marvel of the three versions of MvC3 entirely. I see the logic on both sides of the fence regarding damage but I'd definitely side with the damage nerf crew if I didn't wonder about how Capcom would go about doing it (or if they'd do it at all). It's always nice in theory until it gets Capcom'd somehow.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
If the game became reset heavy wouldn't people just bitch that resets are hard to block like they do about incoming mixups?
Fuck that shit man, I don't feel shameful for my TODs. I got the hit, didn't drop the combo you didn't now you lose a character. It's not like I am using a tool that the other person doesn't have. If people felt shame over TODs then all Hidden Missiles player should've been dead by now from shame.
People who bitch will bitch about everything. Most people would still prefer it because "it reminds them of MVC2" or some shit.
SolarPowered
Member
Lei Lei will probably not get anything useful, but these changes will make it a far better Mahvel game than before and that is all that matters. Lots of characters will surely be left behind as usual, but we'll inch a little closer to MvC2.
Also, there are four Mahvels if you ask me.
It's not as bad as ToDs or inescapable unblockable setups.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I did. 4 times I brought up that I disagreed before today. Each time trying to add a new twist to my argument. I said I agreed grudgingly once, which I posted that I took back within 24 hours.
One of the bigger problems I have with this is that it's so hard to test the effect this has on the game as a whole. It's approaching "whole new version" changes rather than a balance patch. That one thing slides around every other change we could make in some form. It's hard to keep track of the greater context.
Then just normal jump, airdash, float, call assists, use the second airdash to attack. Done.
RR was already a character that needed 3 hits on some characters to kill. But he could kill most with two or crazy level 3 x-factor shit. But level 3 x-factor and his damage are going down, he has terrible normals and his zoning still isn't that good. Plus, his best reset was taken away because his traps OTG now for some reason(I didn't see that on the list before or I would have said something). He'll only wind up doing a quarter to a third of his opponent's health now and not have especially good resets outside of being on point. If you want to make him better, either increase the damage on his level 1 hypers or let his dp traps Air OK so he has a real neutral game.
I don't disagree, but this is an arbitrary punish to bad characters.
Karsticles
Member
People will bitch about anything.
You've never felt shameful about an XF3 DT Vergil comeback?
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72398366]One of the bigger problems I have with this is that it's so hard to test the effect this has on the game as a whole. It's approaching "whole new version" changes rather than a balance patch. That one thing slides around every other change we could make in some form. It's hard to keep track of the greater context.[/quote]
I don't see how the effects of the changes are any harder to test than most of what we're doing here. I mean, we did stuff like give Phoenix Wright a dizzy, and Deadpool now has a level 1 counter that leads to full combos. That stuff is much more dangerous to the metagame than giving everyone 20% more health. I feel I have a good understanding of how that change will affect the game, and to convince me otherwise, I need actual examples of how it could hurt the game.
I feel like the traps going off as OTGs is a bad change for his game, too, but RR players here wanted it. I would back you on removing that if we can get a discussion going on it.
They aren't going to be bad characters once we are done with them.
Here are RR's changes for reference, if people want to discuss him more:
Rocket Raccoon:
*Bear Trap startup reduced to 15 frames.
*Mad Hopper is now a permanent projectile.
*Rocket Raccoon’s aerial series is now more reliable.
*Oil Bomb fire is refreshed when a new Oil Bomb is thrown on it.
*j.S hitstun increased significantly.
*Rocket Skate now cancelable into j.S.
*Spitfire projectile durability changed to 4 per shot.
*Spitfire (air) can be canceled into Rocket Skates.
*Grab Bag startup reduced to 20 frames; damage decay from resulting combos decreased.
*Trap duration increased to 300 frames.
*Opponents who fall into traps mid-combo are affected by them as OTG effects.
Assists: Double Spitfire M, Pendulum, Oil Bomb
Nah man I earned that shit when I survived the incoming!
I have felt shameful about Dark Vergil since day 2 of his release... which is why I started playing point Vergil or at the most secondary Vergil.
Bad characters are bad because they have bad tools that they can't apply properly. The damage problem definitely compounds the issue for them but it's not the fundamental flaw. Hsien Ko and Arthur are bad not because they can't TOD you but because they have shit mobility among other things. If Hsien Ko moved like Magneto no would really complain about doing low damage with Hsien Ko.
"God's Beard!"
Member
We should nerf Vergil by making Spiral Swords a shitty spinning texture like in DmC.
Karsticles
Member
I say our next batch of characters is a bunch of low-damage wonders so we can make GB feel better about the 20% health buff.
Trish
Hsien-ko
Arthur
Firebrand
Amaterasu
Trish
Hsien-ko
Arthur
Firebrand
Amaterasu
SolarPowered
Member
That or they just don't have the tools in the first place.
I don't know what increasing the damage on RR's hypers would do. If he's a reset based character he would want to do good meterless damage before going for the next mix up. By improving his meterless damage (improving base damage; improving special damage scaling) you reward resets even more with the character. I mean sure, you make Mad Hopper damage from 220K to 250K or make that Machine Gun hyper do more damage but he's still doing the same meterless damage.
Arthur and Hsien Ko in one block is too much lol. Too much Low tier at once.
Trish doesn't even do that bad damage.
Arthur and Hsien Ko in one block is too much lol. Too much Low tier at once.
SolarKnight
Member
@GB: If you mean boulders, maybe that could use some rewording. All I ask is for both claymore and net to be able to activate midcombo the same way boulder does already.
Edit: Sheesh, this finally posted. Can I mention just how much I hate mobile GAF sometimes?
Edit: Sheesh, this finally posted. Can I mention just how much I hate mobile GAF sometimes?
"God's Beard!"
Member
There are three problems with Traps being OTGs.
- He can't set them up for wakeup resets.
- Grab bag causes hard knockdown, making an instant infinite.
- Neither Boulder nor Claymore will extend his combos beyond his current capability.
I agree that net sucks ass and that claymore probably needs a buff. But I don't think OTG capability is what Rocket needs. Having them both last longer means they're at least useful for leaving behind on tag outs.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Don't worry GB, I'm mostly with you about the 20% health buff idea. I don't care much for it and would much rather this had been handled on an individual basis. Though I can see how it might work out for the better.
I don't hate TOD's as long as it's with a character I feel deserves it. If I get TOD'd by Thor then I just laugh about it and feel like I deserved it. Zero on the other hand never feels like he actually earns it.
Since I play Chris I really rely on the fact that one clean hit is going to lead to most characters death. Not a fan of that changing.
I also play Felicia and I usually have to rely on 2 or 3 resets to kill someone. Not looking forward to that possibly becoming 4.
I don't hate TOD's as long as it's with a character I feel deserves it. If I get TOD'd by Thor then I just laugh about it and feel like I deserved it. Zero on the other hand never feels like he actually earns it.
Since I play Chris I really rely on the fact that one clean hit is going to lead to most characters death. Not a fan of that changing.
I also play Felicia and I usually have to rely on 2 or 3 resets to kill someone. Not looking forward to that possibly becoming 4.
Professor Beef
Banned
Not a single thing has been confirmed.
Karsticles
Member
Are you sure it isn't your mobile net? Mobile GAF is always great for me.
Capcom confirmed it and hired the posters of NeoGAF to design the patch. This was Sven's final act in his infinite wisdom.
Nothing is confirmed
At least you're honest about your bias.
Felicia's damage will be upped a bit.
C. Viper:
*C. Viper now flashes yellow when performing an EX attack.
*EX moves can no longer be canceled into one another.
*Minimum damage scaling on specials reduced to 20%.
*Optic Laser vertical hitbox decreased slightly.
Assists: Thunder Knuckle H, Optic Laser, Burning Kick L.
Deadpool:
*Cuttin’ Time causes a hard knockdown.
*4th Wall Crisis is now 5+0 on startup; 1 bar; damage reduced to 220,000; throw scaling on follow-up.
*Happy-Happy Trigger damage increased slightly.
*Ninja Gift (all versions) no longer leaves Deadpool prone until landing.
*Teleport Malfunction now causes a soft knockdown.
*Taunt Bubble stays out for full animation when canceled.
*Quick Work into Chimichanga is now easier to perform.
Assists: Trigger Happy L, Katana-rama! H, Ninja Gift M
Jill:
*Arrow Kick travels farther; air OK; ground version can now be canceled into Feral Crouch on hit.
*Machine Gun Spray damage increased to 20,000 per bullet (22 bullets fire).
*Mad Beast is now a level 1; Mad Beast no longer allows meter to be built.
*Double Knee Drop startup reduced by 10 frames across the board.
*Position Change is now +6 on hit.
*Fallen Prey now forced a neutral tech.
*Health increased to 950,000.
Assists: Arrow Kick, Somersault Kick, Sickle Kick
Nemesis:
*Fatal Mutation now has full invincibility and grabs in a 360 degree circle; places opponent in a crumple state; startup time reduced to 10 frames.
*Both Bioweapon Assault and Biohazard Rush recover sooner, allowing Nemesis to combo off of the non-forced ground bounce they cause.
*Biohazard Rush now has hyper armor on frame 1 until recovery; startup reduced to 8+1; vertical hitbox increased.
*Bioweapon Assault now better at predicting where rockets should fire.
*c.H super armor changed to frames 8-27.
*s.H super armor changed to frames 7-24.
*Launcher Slam L is now +2 on block.
*Minimum damage scaling for hypers changed to 60%.
*qcb.S now fires a downward-angled rocket that hits the corner at full screen.
*Clothesline Rocket L: 26 frame start up, 0 on block(no rocket, soft knockdown); previous L and M versions moved to M and H, respectively.
*c.L now chains to s.L.
Assists: Clothesline Rocket M, Deadly Reach, qcb.S
The Mango Sentinel
Member
Capcom stated that they believe Marvel should be balanced.
Doesn't necessarily mean shit, but at least the possibility is finally there.
Karsticles
Member
And one more change slot has opened for RR, so:
Rocket Raccoon:
*Bear Trap startup reduced to 15 frames.
*Mad Hopper is now a permanent projectile.
*Rocket Raccoons aerial series is now more reliable.
*Oil Bomb fire is refreshed when a new Oil Bomb is thrown on it.
*j.S hitstun increased significantly.
*Rocket Skate now cancelable into j.S.
*Spitfire projectile durability changed to 4 per shot.
*Spitfire (air) can be canceled into Rocket Skates.
*Grab Bag startup reduced to 20 frames; damage decay from resulting combos decreased.
*Trap duration increased to 300 frames.
Assists: Double Spitfire M, Pendulum, Oil Bomb
Rocket Raccoon:
*Bear Trap startup reduced to 15 frames.
*Mad Hopper is now a permanent projectile.
*Rocket Raccoons aerial series is now more reliable.
*Oil Bomb fire is refreshed when a new Oil Bomb is thrown on it.
*j.S hitstun increased significantly.
*Rocket Skate now cancelable into j.S.
*Spitfire projectile durability changed to 4 per shot.
*Spitfire (air) can be canceled into Rocket Skates.
*Grab Bag startup reduced to 20 frames; damage decay from resulting combos decreased.
*Trap duration increased to 300 frames.
Assists: Double Spitfire M, Pendulum, Oil Bomb
SolarKnight
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72402126]There are three problems with Traps being OTGs.
I agree that net sucks ass and that claymore probably needs a buff. But I don't think OTG capability is what Rocket needs. Having them both last longer means they're at least useful for leaving behind on tag outs.[/QUOTE]
Well, I was thinking it could at least give him the ability to do raw tag combo setups. Or at the very least something like backthrow->landing on a net trap.
- He can't set them up for wakeup resets.
- Grab bag causes hard knockdown, making an instant infinite.
- Neither Boulder nor Claymore will extend his combos beyond his current capability.
I agree that net sucks ass and that claymore probably needs a buff. But I don't think OTG capability is what Rocket needs. Having them both last longer means they're at least useful for leaving behind on tag outs.[/QUOTE]
Well, I was thinking it could at least give him the ability to do raw tag combo setups. Or at the very least something like backthrow->landing on a net trap.
Trish doesn't do low damage. She just has very limited combo potential, which gives the illusion of low damage.
Also, I couldn't think of anything to change about Jill other than the fact I absolutely hate playing against a good one.
And here's my old Deadpool changelist, taking out a few that are already addressed or not really appropriate for the other changes in the current list:
+ Increase hitstun and blockstun on j.L by four frames.
+ Ninja Gift M hits OTG
+ Katana-Rama L and M cause soft-knockdown
Also, I don't think Cuttin' Time should be a hard knockdown unless you change the knockdown to not shoot people a million feet into the air.
Also, I couldn't think of anything to change about Jill other than the fact I absolutely hate playing against a good one.
And here's my old Deadpool changelist, taking out a few that are already addressed or not really appropriate for the other changes in the current list:
+ Increase hitstun and blockstun on j.L by four frames.
+ Ninja Gift M hits OTG
+ Katana-Rama L and M cause soft-knockdown
Also, I don't think Cuttin' Time should be a hard knockdown unless you change the knockdown to not shoot people a million feet into the air.