Again, that's my point. Everything shouldn't be "smart" or reward skillful play. Every fighting games has brain dead / derp things.
It's not accidental.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
It's not accidental.
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
THe problem is that wesker's "DUMB" gameplay IS overpowered at lower levels of gameplay.
At higher levels, he's actually quite weak.
Properly balancing him thus needs to tone down the dumb shit and improving the smart stuff.
Wesker still has derp/brain dead stuff. He still has a 1 frame command grab, he still has gunshots into teleport, he still has teleport cross up mix ups. He still has easy combos for the most part. He still has "America's favorite combo".
A bad mechanic is a bad mechanic, that's all.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Just got back.
Wesker
This removes all of Wesker's thoughtless strategies while rewarding reset-based play and proper reads.
Hawkeye
Hawkeye is better at maintaining his mid- to far-range positioning without having to back himself into the corner, while forcing him to rely more on his ground bounce and assists for combos. Some of his less useful moves are rounded out to add value to his playstyle. He's a stronger zoning character and slightly weaker anchor. He can now slide out of corners without a near-guaranteed punish.
Wesker
- Low Shot prioritizes point characters
- Phantom Dance is now a tracking hit-throw like Maximum Spider, -30 on block
- Wesker gets 10% damage buff with glasses-on, 10% speed buff with glasses-off
- S is now -8 on block
- Jaguar Kick now fully special-cancelable
- Rhino Charge is invincible from frames 1-5
- 5 extra active frames on all versions of Tiger Uppercut
This removes all of Wesker's thoughtless strategies while rewarding reset-based play and proper reads.
Hawkeye
- jS now Hyper-cancelable
- Jack Rose can now be activated by aiming H
- Balalaika now lands in the middle of the screen instead of the far third
- Hawkeye can now block during trick maneuver L and H movement
- Shock Value no longer OTGs, is special-cancelable
- Ice breaker expands on contact with projectiles, expansion has 10 low durability
- 2M has a slightly further-reaching hitbox
Hawkeye is better at maintaining his mid- to far-range positioning without having to back himself into the corner, while forcing him to rely more on his ground bounce and assists for combos. Some of his less useful moves are rounded out to add value to his playstyle. He's a stronger zoning character and slightly weaker anchor. He can now slide out of corners without a near-guaranteed punish.
So he starts with a damage buff... but when he lands a hyper he loses the damage buff and gains a speed buff?
Pray tell me the rationale behind this change.
Also God's how about Air OK Trick Shots on Hawkeye?
Well this at least deals with the problem of infinites with Hunter arrow from having special cancel on Shock Value.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Now Wesker is more viable as a reset character since his base damage is stronger, but once he starts going crazy and loses the glasses he won't get a damage buff on top of x-factor. Glasses off Wesker has a little more finesse and better combos, but the damage winds up about the same. You have to think about what you want.
Hawkeye doesn't need air trick shots for anything, if you give him that people will just start superjumping and throwing speed shots. It's not his style. You could make trick maneuver special cancelable, but it's way too strong.
That wouldn't be an infinite anyway because Hunter Shots aren't hard knockdown. It's a special state that no longer activates after a certain amount of hitstun decay.
So... there's no point to this change. If the damage is about the same then why not just give the 10% speed boost first? Why not just start with more finesse and better combos that lead to more resets?
Just give the speed boost as standard, no damage buff. I want to be able to do better combos all the time.
Ah I see. Block after Trick shots is good then.
Can you blow it up with Speedshot? This is an interesting change but I would like for more projectiles of Hawkeye to be able to activate it.
"God's Beard!"
Member
So he doesn't get level 4 x-factor damage that kills in 5 hits.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72695196]So he doesn't get level 4 x-factor damage that kills in 5 hits.[/QUOTE]
He's not going to get LVL4 XF because we are removing buff stacking multiplication in XF. And LVL4 XF Wesker hasn't been relevant for quite some time now. And not only that XF3 has been toned down to XF2 level. No one is going to bother playing Wesker anchor, then again I haven't seen an anchor Wesker team in a long time.
And in my suggestion you don't even have to worry about giving him a damage boost in XF because there is no damage boost just speed boost.
He's not going to get LVL4 XF because we are removing buff stacking multiplication in XF. And LVL4 XF Wesker hasn't been relevant for quite some time now. And not only that XF3 has been toned down to XF2 level. No one is going to bother playing Wesker anchor, then again I haven't seen an anchor Wesker team in a long time.
And in my suggestion you don't even have to worry about giving him a damage boost in XF because there is no damage boost just speed boost.
"God's Beard!"
Member
That's really dumb.
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72695196]So he doesn't get level 4 x-factor damage that kills in 5 hits.[/QUOTE]
Xfactor is getting nerfed across the board.
Damage is getting nerfed across the board.
I recommended nerfing phantom dance damage and his normals scaling, and his xfactor scaling.
Speed is good, any of us would gladly toss away the damage buff for a consistant way to get speed buff w/o being "dumb wesker"
Xfactor is getting nerfed across the board.
Damage is getting nerfed across the board.
I recommended nerfing phantom dance damage and his normals scaling, and his xfactor scaling.
Speed is good, any of us would gladly toss away the damage buff for a consistant way to get speed buff w/o being "dumb wesker"
"God's Beard!"
Member
Meant to specify active frames. That's what I meant by movement. I'm tired.
What? Why? Phantom Dance does shit damage as is.
And if we're going to suggest that Phantom Dance be a cinematic move, it needs to not do ass damage.
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
I think my suggestion of forcing wesker to land next to the oppenent makes it FAR more risky to just throw out there...
If you want to make Phantom Dance riskier instead of removing crossing up then just make it like -30 on block. The main problem is still the same though... a random move is still a random move.
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
You may be thinking of Vanilla MvC3 damage...
Fully mashed phantom dance is kinda ridiculous.
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
Making it -60 on block will take away the really cool/unique combo options he can land after it.
Karsticles
Member
You're welcome to put your foot down, and we can remove the glasses change, but I'm not giving Wesker a permanent XF1 speed boost for free.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72692061]Just got back.
Wesker
- Low Shot prioritizes point characters
- Phantom Dance is now a tracking hit-throw like Maximum Spider, -30 on block
- Wesker gets 10% damage buff with glasses-on, 10% speed buff with glasses-off
- S is now -8 on block
- Jaguar Kick now fully special-cancelable
- Rhino Charge is invincible from frames 1-5
- 5 extra active frames on all versions of Tiger Uppercut
OTG shot change is good.
Phantom Dance should not be a hit-throw, or you can't hit two characters with it, and now Wesker has no way to end happy birthday combos.
I'll let you and Dahbomb argue about the glasses thing for a while.
s.H shouldn't be -8; it's not that good; how about -4?
Explain the importance of the Jaguar Kick change to me.
We all agree on Rhino Charge.
I don't think his counters should be easy to do - I've met people who can do them consistently. I'd rather buff the attack that comes afterward. I'll look at the frame data in a minute and make some numeric suggestions.
Why does j.S need to be hyper cancelable?
Why should Ice Breaker have a post-projectile explosion?
I like the Shock Value change. The move doesn't look like it hits OTG anyway.
No way should Hawkeye get to block during Trick; we already got rid of this with Dante.
I'm curious what APP thinks about the Balalaika change. If you move it to mid-screen, Hawkeye has no full-screen anti-air options.
Explain the Jack Rose change.
Phantom Dance does shit damage unless you set it up for a midscreen juggle, which is something inconsistent. Even then, it is by no means doing crazy damage by the standards of this game.
When you hit it at the optimum spacing, early in a combo with the game's current full damage boost applied from no glasses against a large target...
When you are asking for the glasses mechanic removed you are automatically nerfing Phantom Dance as the damage boost never gets applied. So it's a pointless request... it's getting nerfed anyway.
He clarified it's during active frames only.
But you are OK with nerfing his LVL1 hyper damage, limiting his combo potential, limiting his meter gain and further making him a worse anchor?
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
I think the glasses thing is tied into the phantom dance thing.
Just make phantom dance NOT randomly cross up (by adding block stun and bigger hitboxes).. and make wesker land next to the opponent when he lands...
Then allow wesker to take his glasses off via taunt.
I think the buff should stay when he has glasses off, that's how it was in RE5.
(i.e. he took the glasses off when he meant business)
Just make phantom dance NOT randomly cross up (by adding block stun and bigger hitboxes).. and make wesker land next to the opponent when he lands...
Then allow wesker to take his glasses off via taunt.
I think the buff should stay when he has glasses off, that's how it was in RE5.
(i.e. he took the glasses off when he meant business)
Karsticles
Member
I'm not the one asking for the glasses mechanic to be removed. I'm not okay with removing it at all. Also, Wesker's combos are unexplored in tournament. The people who play him are fucking lazy. I've never seen a Wesker player even bother to attempt anything like what's in these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pH0LsdVCKs
His damage is high enough even without the glasses off.
I don't see why Hawkeye should be able to block during the active frames on the flips, or why that would make it more acceptable.
Fuck Capcom for introducing the 3rd worst mechanic in UMVC3. We wouldn't even be having this conversation if glasses mechanic never existed.
You don't see those Wesker combos in tournaments because most of them are in GLASSES OFF mode which you don't have access to at the start of the game and they use ridiculously obtuse assists that suck in the neutral. If you aren't playing Wesker with something like Drones, horizontal assist, Vajra then you aren't playing an actual competitive Wesker team.
So you complain that you don't see swag Wesker combos in tournaments but then also complain about keeping the speed boost.
You don't see those Wesker combos in tournaments because most of them are in GLASSES OFF mode which you don't have access to at the start of the game and they use ridiculously obtuse assists that suck in the neutral. If you aren't playing Wesker with something like Drones, horizontal assist, Vajra then you aren't playing an actual competitive Wesker team.
So you complain that you don't see swag Wesker combos in tournaments but then also complain about keeping the speed boost.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I just mean hit throw as in Phantom Dance only goes into the whole animation on hit. If you block it, he just drops before any cross up.
The glasses thing really doesn't matter to me. I'd take the 10% speed buff permanently and a 10% damage nerf for all I care. Has almost nothing to do with how he plays.
S needs to be at least -5 to deincentivize people from not hitconfirming. He's already stupidly easy to confirm with and his H is +0 anyway.
Jaguar Kick right now has a weird property where you can call assists during its active frames, but you can only cancel it into the L palm for whatever reason. Being able to cancel it into teleport or command grab creates a real layer of mixups that were obviously an intention of the move.
The problem isn't that Wesker's counters are too hard, they're too quick. It's easy to make a correct read then whiff them and get hit by the move you were expecting.
jS would be one of his biggest changes, jS is one of his best defensive moves, especially when he's cornered. Making it hyper-cancelable means he can confirm a DHC out without worrying about getting stuffed or thrown as often.
Because Ice Breaker M is garbage. It doesn't even let you combo at slide range, so I had the idea to let it fight projectiles and create a little ice wall for a few frames. It's definitely the least important of my suggestions, though.
The Trick change is so he can slide under people when they jump towards him and jump away with Trick L. I specified during movement, so it's not like he can avoid hypers with it since it has startup. And when is Hawkeye whiffing normals anyway? If people wanted to blast him, any of his zoning tools are perfect opportunities.
Kamikaze is a universally superior fullscreen zoning option. It deals more chip, has higher durability and active frames... the point was to decrease redundancy between the moves.
Jack Rose is awesome, but it's not a real trap because it takes more than two seconds to activate. This way you can see someone is coming, aim down with H and blow it up then cancel into another special. The range it comes out at seems strange unless you realize that it's the correct range for an aimed H, so I assume this was intended at some point.
Most of those are completely impractical for the additional damage that you get. Most of those also assume that you get a clean j.S on a standing opponent without using any assists, since they also use two assists in each combo. They essentially have limited applicability.
And part of the problem is adjusting those combos for when you have glasses off state vs. glasses on. In the heat of a Marvel match, you're not going to be able to distinguish if Wesker's glasses are on his face or not, so they're only usable post Phantom Dance.
Obvious points to someone who actually plays the character. Who the hell is going to use a Wesker team with Hyper Grav Magneto and Mighty Strike Thor? LMAO!
Thank you.
Karsticles
Member
Oh my god, it's a 3 volume series. I just posted one as an example. He gives examples with Vajra, Jam Session, Sentinel Force, Beams, etc. All common Wesker assists. It's applicable in a tournament setting.
I'm not complaining about keeping the speed boost, I'm saying he shouldn't get it for free. Big difference. Having to spend a bar at the start of the round is a big deal.
Also, all 3 of those videos have a good mix of glasses on/off combos, and it's clear that his bnb is nowhere near optimized.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72700991]I just mean hit throw as in Phantom Dance only goes into the whole animation on hit. If you block it, he just drops before any cross up.[/quote]
Oh, so like Dancing Flash. I think we should keep it as-is for chip purposes and stuff.
Dahbomb seems to think it's really important. ;-)
I made it -5, then.
I like this change.
I'll look at the frame data.
Fair enough.
Why wouldn't people just use Spritzer?
Don't all of his Trick moves make him jump toward the opponent? I haven't played much Hawkeye...loathe him.
Kamikaze doesn't hit the top-right corner. Balalalalalalaiaka does.
This sounds like it could lead to accidental detonations, though.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Change added: Wesker's health bar portrait represents the state of his glasses.
"God's Beard!"
Member
No, the L version moves backwards. The one you see people use poison shot with.
Kamikaze is too strong if you shift it closer to Hawkeye, though.
It's really hard to accidentally aim H down.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Karsticles
Member
In a more reset-oriented game, people will spend more time to max out their damage. And if they don't, oh well.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72702836]No, the L version moves backwards. The one you see people use poison shot with.
Kamikaze is too strong if you shift it closer to Hawkeye, though.
It's really hard to accidentally aim H down.[/QUOTE]
So only d.H would set Jack Rose off? No other projectile?
And I mean that if you shift Balalakai closer to Hawkeye, none of his moves hit the top-right corner. He needs something to cover that space.
I'm not sure about the Trick change...he's already very mobile.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72702426]Change added: Wesker's health bar portrait represents the state of his glasses.[/QUOTE]
Added.
Karsticles
Member
Current changelist; I made my suggested Wesker counter changes, and I also wonder if we should base Arthur's armor breaks off of damage taken instead of a timer - thoughts on that? I PMed the two best Arthur players I know to get feedback, and one thinks that refreshable armor would be OP. I haven't heard back from Rikir yet.
Wesker:
*Rhino Charge returned to Vanilla status.
*Phantom Dance may no longer cross up.
*Launcher changed to -5 on block.
*Improved counters (specifics?).
*Samurai Edge (Low) prioritizes point characters.
*Jaguar Kick can now be canceled into any special on block.
*Tiger Uppercut L Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-22, and is +2 on block; causes a wall bounce.
*Tiger Uppercut M Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-25, and is +2 on block.
*Tiger Uppercut H Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-23, and is +2 on block.
*Wesker’s in-battle character portrait now shows whether his glasses are on or off.
Assists: Samurai Edge (Lower Shot), Samurai Edge (Horizontal Fire), Jaguar Dash + Kick
Hulk:
*Ground dash now attack and crouch cancelable.
*Minimum damage scaling on normal and special attacks reduced to 20%.
*Gamma Quake is now throw invincible.
Assists: Gamma Wave H, Gamma Charge H (AA), Gamma Charge H
Hawkeye:
*Gimlet hitstun increased; it is now always safe on hit.
*Trick Shot (Violent Fuzz) assist startup time reduced to 37 frames.
*f.M special cancelable; no longer hits OTG.
*Hawkeye now has enough time to OTG opponents after Tag Team Special.
*c.M now always connects after c.L.
*Ragtime Shot (Jack Rose) can now be influenced in its trajectory by holding forward or back after firing it.
*Quick Shot (Hunter) is now guaranteed to bring opponents to the ground.
*j.S is now hyper cancelable.
Assists: Quick Shot (Greyhound), Trick Shot (Violet Fuzz), Ragtime Shot (Balalaika)
Arthur:
*j.S horizontal hitbox increased slightly; hitstun increased.
*When Gold Armor is on, the input for Gold Armor refreshes the duration.
*Crossbow (Gold Armor) tracking improved slightly.
*Cross Sword is now special-cancelable; air OK.
*Walk speed increased.
*f.H now 10 frames startup and has 1 hit of super armor from frames 1-15.
*Arthur now recovers from air and ground throws with enough time to get a full combo from them.
*Startup on normals decreased by 2 frames across the board.
*Shield Deflect now counters low, mid, and high attacks; startup reduced to 3 frames.
*Fire Bottle (Gold Armor) now has a wider hitbox and more consistently OTGs characters.
*More frame advantage on dp.L counter.
Assists: Dagger Toss, Crossbow, Ax Toss
Wesker:
*Rhino Charge returned to Vanilla status.
*Phantom Dance may no longer cross up.
*Launcher changed to -5 on block.
*Improved counters (specifics?).
*Samurai Edge (Low) prioritizes point characters.
*Jaguar Kick can now be canceled into any special on block.
*Tiger Uppercut L Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-22, and is +2 on block; causes a wall bounce.
*Tiger Uppercut M Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-25, and is +2 on block.
*Tiger Uppercut H Follow-up Attack now has invincibility from frames 1-23, and is +2 on block.
*Wesker’s in-battle character portrait now shows whether his glasses are on or off.
Assists: Samurai Edge (Lower Shot), Samurai Edge (Horizontal Fire), Jaguar Dash + Kick
Hulk:
*Ground dash now attack and crouch cancelable.
*Minimum damage scaling on normal and special attacks reduced to 20%.
*Gamma Quake is now throw invincible.
Assists: Gamma Wave H, Gamma Charge H (AA), Gamma Charge H
Hawkeye:
*Gimlet hitstun increased; it is now always safe on hit.
*Trick Shot (Violent Fuzz) assist startup time reduced to 37 frames.
*f.M special cancelable; no longer hits OTG.
*Hawkeye now has enough time to OTG opponents after Tag Team Special.
*c.M now always connects after c.L.
*Ragtime Shot (Jack Rose) can now be influenced in its trajectory by holding forward or back after firing it.
*Quick Shot (Hunter) is now guaranteed to bring opponents to the ground.
*j.S is now hyper cancelable.
Assists: Quick Shot (Greyhound), Trick Shot (Violet Fuzz), Ragtime Shot (Balalaika)
Arthur:
*j.S horizontal hitbox increased slightly; hitstun increased.
*When Gold Armor is on, the input for Gold Armor refreshes the duration.
*Crossbow (Gold Armor) tracking improved slightly.
*Cross Sword is now special-cancelable; air OK.
*Walk speed increased.
*f.H now 10 frames startup and has 1 hit of super armor from frames 1-15.
*Arthur now recovers from air and ground throws with enough time to get a full combo from them.
*Startup on normals decreased by 2 frames across the board.
*Shield Deflect now counters low, mid, and high attacks; startup reduced to 3 frames.
*Fire Bottle (Gold Armor) now has a wider hitbox and more consistently OTGs characters.
*More frame advantage on dp.L counter.
Assists: Dagger Toss, Crossbow, Ax Toss
It's a buff to him in Ultimate, and now you want to give him a second buff. It was a dumb addition, but giving it for free is double-dumb. It would be like saying that Arthur's Gold Armor is poorly thought out, so let's just remove it and move the Gold Armor specials to his normal moveset. It doesn't make sense to buff a character like that when it's not needed.
Then you should've posted the right video.
I went ahead and watched Vol. 3. It runs into the same issues... most require assists from characters like Nemesis or Akuma divekick or Chris punch. And even the Strider, Dante, Viper, Vergil ones require a clean j.S on a standing opponent without the use of assists. Not only does that allow both assists to be used mid combo, it also doesn't add all the hitstun deterioration early in a combo that Wesker WILL have when using assists to approach.
A lot of the big damage ones require a level 3, and you would have gotten that damage off of Wesker's basic BNB into level 3 with assists anyway... they just build more meter. There's little point in showcasing damage with level 3s.
Yes, they're higher damage than the traditional Wesker combos because they're optimized. No, they're not worth the risk or the use of what would otherwise be useless assists.
You can't say Rhino Charge returned to Vanilla status because scaling didn't apply properly to that move so it was a bit too good. Scaling should still apply after the move but it should have invincibility.
SMH... you don't understand the character at all. Half of the time you are OPENING someone up with something like Drones to even use it in a combo and even then it's not like he was pairing up good assists with another good assist. A lot of the time Wesker gets an opening with a beam, combo is scaled to hell, is not set up at the proper spacing to do an optimized combo. That's what it's like in a real Wesker match... no way are you clapping someone on the head with a j.S without they interacting with an assist some how. And even then so many of the combos are glasses off Wesker that they lose practical application.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Wanna play Karst?
Yes.
Like any of his jumping arrows?
If by a floaty jump back over and over then yeah. His only two movement tools, slide and trick are 100% punishable and massively slow. It's not even easy to slide under someone and cancel into trick because you can easy do the wrong input then get punished for whiffing an arrow. And at best you get a solid three quarters of a second where your opponent knows exactly where you're moving and what angle your one attack goes.
Yes.
Like any of his jumping arrows?
If by a floaty jump back over and over then yeah. His only two movement tools, slide and trick are 100% punishable and massively slow. It's not even easy to slide under someone and cancel into trick because you can easy do the wrong input then get punished for whiffing an arrow. And at best you get a solid three quarters of a second where your opponent knows exactly where you're moving and what angle your one attack goes.
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
If we're gonna keep the glasses mechanic largely as-is...
Can we allow him to taunt and take the glasses off? please?
(for the wesker phoenix players out there!)
Can we allow him to taunt and take the glasses off? please?
(for the wesker phoenix players out there!)
Karsticles
Member
Stop being so dramatic. I know those combos started off of j.S. They're examples of what people should be exploring for combos off of the assists he uses to cross people up with. I have played Wesker for a while, you know.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72703936]Wanna play Karst?[/quote]
Like I said, you have to catch me earlier in the day. My wife wakes up at 4AM for work - no button slapping in the evening.
He has Balalakai as it is for a reason right now, and it's to bring top-right corner characters to the ground while staying grounded himself.
Well, compared to the other two dedicated keepaway characters, Dr. Strange and Arthur, he's really mobile.
Do I have to repeat the argument again? It's only the speed boost, he gets nerfed anyway because the damage on his LVL1 gets nerfed (as it auto gets a damage boost), no more X factor multiplicative stacking and it encourages people to use optimized combos because Wesker is standardized through out the match.
I would honestly go back to Vanilla status Wesker than deal with glasses mechanic again. Give me my floaty gun shot back as well while you're at it since you gave Wesker his full Rhino Charge back.
Renegade_Civil-War
Neo Member
Lol, if I got gun->teleport combos back, I'd win tournaments again.
Karsticles
Member
It's still a buff overall.
And I don't approve of removing character mechanics entirely without extreme reason (Gold Armor).
The point is that if you use those conversions from the video in real world application, you're not going to get the same damage. The reason he gets so much damage is that he starts out with a j.S, and in some cases goes straight into c.H to get extra damage early on. And the second you throw assist damage in the beginning, you can kiss all that bonus damage you get off of your stylish combo goodbye. At that point, you're probably looking at almost identical damage.
Do I think that people could optimize their combos more? Sure. I don't think it makes a big difference. ChrisG optimized his Wesker combo with Ryu assist and it tacked on very little additional damage.
Karsticles
Member
Probably more damage, and definitely more meter gain.
Karsticles
Member
Hawkeye:
*Gimlet hitstun increased; it is now always safe on hit.
*Trick Shot (Violent Fuzz) assist startup time reduced to 37 frames.
*f.M special cancelable; no longer hits OTG.
*Hawkeye now has enough time to OTG opponents after Tag Team Special.
*c.M now always connects after c.L.
*Ragtime Shot (Jack Rose) can now be influenced in its trajectory by holding forward or back after firing it; c.H arrows detonate the bomb early.
*Quick Shot (Hunter) is now guaranteed to bring opponents to the ground.
*j.S is now hyper cancelable.
*Trick now air OK near walls; Hawkeye may block during active frames.
Assists: Quick Shot (Greyhound), Trick Shot (Violet Fuzz), Ragtime Shot (Balalaika)
The only change GB suggested that I'm not on board with is moving Balalaika. How does the rest look?
*Gimlet hitstun increased; it is now always safe on hit.
*Trick Shot (Violent Fuzz) assist startup time reduced to 37 frames.
*f.M special cancelable; no longer hits OTG.
*Hawkeye now has enough time to OTG opponents after Tag Team Special.
*c.M now always connects after c.L.
*Ragtime Shot (Jack Rose) can now be influenced in its trajectory by holding forward or back after firing it; c.H arrows detonate the bomb early.
*Quick Shot (Hunter) is now guaranteed to bring opponents to the ground.
*j.S is now hyper cancelable.
*Trick now air OK near walls; Hawkeye may block during active frames.
Assists: Quick Shot (Greyhound), Trick Shot (Violet Fuzz), Ragtime Shot (Balalaika)
The only change GB suggested that I'm not on board with is moving Balalaika. How does the rest look?