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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Karsticles
Member
Pfft, a non-reason.
You do lots of impressive stuff when we play!
You know how to make a guy feel special, doncha?
Yeah GGs. Your Dante is ridiculous, lol.
AnkiRendan
Member
Sorry! Fixed that now.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I've been falling back on Wesker/Magneto/Phoenix since just after EVO 2011. No matter how much I mess around with composition, that's the team that's been the most fun for me.
Spent the last hour practicing spencer's zip loops.. I can only pull it off maybe 50-60% of the time. Oh well, Its progress..
Also can get a combo off of bionic lancer if I'm in the corner. Otherwise I cant seem to do it fast enough.
From playing yesterday I think Felicia/Hawkeye/Strider should be my main team. I just gotta work on my strider.
I also like using rocket raccoon, but I need way more practice with him.
EDIT: AnkiRendan, I sent you a friend request on PSN.
Some guy called PotatoeEFry sent me a friend request, does anyone have an idea who that is?
Also can get a combo off of bionic lancer if I'm in the corner. Otherwise I cant seem to do it fast enough.
From playing yesterday I think Felicia/Hawkeye/Strider should be my main team. I just gotta work on my strider.
I also like using rocket raccoon, but I need way more practice with him.
EDIT: AnkiRendan, I sent you a friend request on PSN.
Some guy called PotatoeEFry sent me a friend request, does anyone have an idea who that is?
Karsticles
Member
So, I think I want to keep rocking the Vergil/Dormammu/Morrigan team, but I want to make tagging Dormammu in a priority. So, instead of XF2 Dormammu + Dark Harmonizer making my comebacks, XF2 Vergil + Dark Harmonizer will (which sounds just as scary, right?).
So, it seems like I have two good opportunities for this that I don't normally use:
1) End Vergil combos with Dimension Slash, DHC Stalking Flare, charge 3D0C, Mass Change H, j.S, 3D0C, Dark Hole, Chaotic Flame
2) During a Vergil combo, Lunar Phase (ground bounce), Devil Trigger right as Vergil touches the ground, raw tag Dormammu. I have enough time to do Flame Carpet or Purification -> Chaotic Flame, but I can't seem to link Rapid Slash + Flame Carpet. Any thoughts? Particularly from Solune, the resident Vergil combo master. ^_^
So, it seems like I have two good opportunities for this that I don't normally use:
1) End Vergil combos with Dimension Slash, DHC Stalking Flare, charge 3D0C, Mass Change H, j.S, 3D0C, Dark Hole, Chaotic Flame
2) During a Vergil combo, Lunar Phase (ground bounce), Devil Trigger right as Vergil touches the ground, raw tag Dormammu. I have enough time to do Flame Carpet or Purification -> Chaotic Flame, but I can't seem to link Rapid Slash + Flame Carpet. Any thoughts? Particularly from Solune, the resident Vergil combo master. ^_^
Stick with it, then.
Keep at it. It is amazing how hard combos become second nature after a while, as long as you always go for it. After a while it becomes easy.
Of course I'm not talking about the really hard stuff.
Karsticles
Member
Someone on SRK asked for my next 5 best assists for Dormammu after my top 5, so I thought I'd post it here too and see what folks think:
Top 5 for reference:
1) Hidden Missiles
2) EM Disruptor
3) Jam Session
4) Dark Harmonizer
5) Plasma Beam
It gets shaky after top 5, but I'd go...
6. Double Lariat
7. Unibeam
8. Rapid Slash
9. Eye of Agamotto
10. Mystic Ray
After that, there's a lot of same-y stuff. Shopping Cart, Tatsu, Hulk Gamma Charge AA, and Rising Dragon are all kind of doing the same thing, and none are especially better at it than any other. Bolts of Balthakk is interesting for its versatility, Vajra is solid, and since you're considering Bolts, which has notable weaknesses, you can start considering multi-hitting projectiles like Dagger Toss and arrow assists, and Sentinel Force comes in somewhere around here because while it's very useful and versatile, it's also hard as hell for Dormammu to call in certain matchups that are also popular characters (Magneto, Wesker, twins). I think "Get em Missile!" is interesting to consider at around this point, because it hits low, and Dormammu is all over the air. Chain of Rebuttal is probably around Bolts of Balthakk, Cold Star is around Tatsu's level, and then, lastly, you have the "only useful for combo extension" stuff like Tenderizer and Chun-li's lightning legs. It's hard to rank Senpu Bu because it wouldn't be fair to judge an assist that takes a bar of meter, which is a metagame consequence, compared to other assists that don't, but I'd probably rank Senpu Bu under the four "get off me" assists I listed above.
No way will you get me to put that all in a list, haha, but I think it covers every assist you'd ever want to use with Dormammu, though I might have missed one in there somewhere.
Top 5 for reference:
1) Hidden Missiles
2) EM Disruptor
3) Jam Session
4) Dark Harmonizer
5) Plasma Beam
It gets shaky after top 5, but I'd go...
6. Double Lariat
7. Unibeam
8. Rapid Slash
9. Eye of Agamotto
10. Mystic Ray
After that, there's a lot of same-y stuff. Shopping Cart, Tatsu, Hulk Gamma Charge AA, and Rising Dragon are all kind of doing the same thing, and none are especially better at it than any other. Bolts of Balthakk is interesting for its versatility, Vajra is solid, and since you're considering Bolts, which has notable weaknesses, you can start considering multi-hitting projectiles like Dagger Toss and arrow assists, and Sentinel Force comes in somewhere around here because while it's very useful and versatile, it's also hard as hell for Dormammu to call in certain matchups that are also popular characters (Magneto, Wesker, twins). I think "Get em Missile!" is interesting to consider at around this point, because it hits low, and Dormammu is all over the air. Chain of Rebuttal is probably around Bolts of Balthakk, Cold Star is around Tatsu's level, and then, lastly, you have the "only useful for combo extension" stuff like Tenderizer and Chun-li's lightning legs. It's hard to rank Senpu Bu because it wouldn't be fair to judge an assist that takes a bar of meter, which is a metagame consequence, compared to other assists that don't, but I'd probably rank Senpu Bu under the four "get off me" assists I listed above.
No way will you get me to put that all in a list, haha, but I think it covers every assist you'd ever want to use with Dormammu, though I might have missed one in there somewhere.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Are Missile, Low Shot and Ankle Slicer the only low-hitting OTG assists?
Isn't one of Deadpools a low otg?
He has a low hitting assist and one that OTGs but they don't do both.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Yeah, but overhead assists are garbage other than Nova and Akuma's.
Thanks for the heads-up on Torpedo.
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'm still sad about that. Dante used to have missiles, too.
Karsticles
Member
"Moves that should be assists" is my favorite part of the Marvel cycle.
Karsticles
Member
It was the net, which is even better.
Killa Sasa
Member
I knew I wasn't tripping when I thought this was the case. Would've been perfect for my team before.
Burn Kick mang.
Killa Sasa
Member
scrubby double post, sorry
Man, I didn't realize they had this in one of the builds. Man that would've been a sweet assist.
EDIT: I wish Chun Li had a Spinning Bird Kick Assist.
She didn't get the EX SBK until UMVC3 but now that assist would be insane to have. It would be like a Lariat only it would hit at a lower height.
Since we already opened that can of worm... Top 10 assists that should've been in the game (no order):
1) Nova Energy Javelin
2) Vergil Lunar Phase
3) Deadpool forward Trigger Happy
4) Wolverine Swiss Cheese
5) Chun Li EX SBK
6) Dormammu Flame Carpet or Dark Matter
7) Ryu Charged Fireball
8) Chris Magnum
9) Skrull L Tenderizer
10) Ghost Rider Judgment Strike
Since we already opened that can of worm... Top 10 assists that should've been in the game (no order):
1) Nova Energy Javelin
2) Vergil Lunar Phase
3) Deadpool forward Trigger Happy
4) Wolverine Swiss Cheese
5) Chun Li EX SBK
6) Dormammu Flame Carpet or Dark Matter
7) Ryu Charged Fireball
8) Chris Magnum
9) Skrull L Tenderizer
10) Ghost Rider Judgment Strike
Karsticles
Member
Let Kikosho OTG, make all of her THCs Kikosho, and give her that assist, and suddenly she's worth using.
This shit is so easy to fix, Capcom!
SolarKnight
Member
Hmm, I guess that would've been better than his shrapnel trap assist at least, but I don't like how any follow up would be scaled to fucking hell...although I guess you could kindof say the same about the log.
How would it have been "too good" though?
Karsticles
Member
It would be "too good" for the same reason Soul Drain would be "too good" as an assist.
It wouldn't.
All those plus Cr.L hits low, normal damage scaling min value increased (special damage values retained), new move Hazanshu can be done from the air brings her down in an arc causes ground bounce and hits OTG, air dash distance increased, can back air dash and health increased to 900K.
Did I ever post my character changes for some of the other characters? I don't think so, I think I stopped at Storm or Deadpool.
"God's Beard!"
Member
- Hyper Grav H
- Acid Rain
- 1D1C
- Any command grab
- MODOK's EX Barrier
Karsticles
Member
Eh, you have to be careful when you give a character an invincible assist and also give her all this stuff.
1D1C would upset too many people. :-/
It would work like Lariat, won't be invulnerable for the first frame, will be hard to hit her out of it during the move (can still be beam hypered) and punished on recovery if you are fast enough. And cuz buffs.
Solar, I'm curious, is shrapnel trap assist any good?
I didn't even realize chun li's health was so low. How does Capcom determine these things? Do they just throw darts at a board to determine whether certain characters are "good enough". I mean, the difference in potential for someone like magneto/dante and characters like hsienko. ghost rider, or chun li is just mind boggling. Why did they give some characters all the tools and other characters next to none?
Now i'm to the point where I'm naively hoping for a UMVC3 2013 patch again. Even though I'm sure it either wont happen, or they'll neglect the weaker characters again.
Karsticles
Member
Vagina tax.
SolarKnight
Member
I've literally never used it once, I just don't see a single reason to use it over the log or spitfire. I imagine that it at least has the advantage that it shouldn't disappear when you get hit, so it could work as a pseudo shield maybe?
All those characters have "tools" it's just that Capcom when they first made characters was unable to decipher which tools were good and which were bad.
Chun Li's tools that caused her to have low health (this is Capcom mentality by the way):
*Triple jump. Very few characters have a double jump, even fewer have a triple jump. That's around 50-100K health reduction just right there.
*Decently fast air dash.
*2 frame reversal move, VERY few moves in the game are that fast
*Decent overhead game and she can self cross you up. That's why Capcom thought she didn't need cr.L to hit low
*Can cause crumple stun for more damage so she didn't get an OTG initially. Only Capcom didn't realize that getting clean hits on others in Marvel on the ground is very hard.
*A female character with a smallish hit box. Gotta tap that vagina tax.
*Invincible LVL1 hyper that she can combo off of.
*In Ultimate she gains an excellent move in EX SBK. A powerful reversal that hits all around her and she can even combo off of it plus use it to extend her own combos/add damage.
*Lightning Kicks is still a solid assist. It's hitbox was slightly nerfed in Ultimate though.
*Her X factor speed bonuses were among the fastest in Vanilla. She was supposed to be a pixie character.
*Even now she has good meter gain on combos despite doing low damage for high execution.
However these tools are not enough to be a good enough character. All her hypers are unsafe on block meaning she has to be played on point most of the time. Her damage isn't high enough and she has to go for resets only her throw game used to be ass in Vanilla as she had no OTG. Her high low game is sub par, she is very easy to chicken block against. She is a good character to play against rushdown characters but she is not that great against zoning/defensive teams. Also she lacks super jump confirms and her air dash game is very one dimensional.
Capcom does have some sort of a system when it comes to rating health on characters. Mobility is definitely a criteria as is hit box size. Assist value/anchor potential is also a criteria as is a characters ability to mix you up (this is usually also balanced with their damage output). There is no character in the game that has sub par mobility + huge hit box + bad assists who has low health. Sentinel is sort of an exception but he has great assist value plus solid mobility and super armor.
Professor Beef
Banned
Which doesn't apply since so many female AND male characters are under 950k. Not that it ever applied in the first place; people just want a reason to be mad that their waifu has low health when that character actually deserves it.
Karsticles
Member
There's a difference, though.
Female characters with 850,000 health:
Chun-li
Trish
Jill
Storm
X-23
Felicia
Male characters with around 850,000 health:
Magneto
Dr. Strange
Vergil
Firebrand
Arthur
Zero
So on one end you have Zero, Vergil, and Magneto, who are generally agreed to be in the top 5 characters in the game. On the other end, you have two noteworthy players who use Storm for Ice Storm.
Firebrand is an S tier character in theoryfighterland at least, and Dr. Strange has now been picked up by two top US players. Arthur...is Arthur.
What can you say about the female equivalents except "Yeah, she has some fans"? Not to say that those characters are garbage, but there's no reason to pick Felicia over Mag-fucking-neto in this game if you want to win.
And my "waifu", to use that term loosely, has 950K health, so I'm not biased here.
My proposed Deadpool changes:
*LVL3 is now a LVL1 counter. Damage reduced to 300K. Deadpool does not move forward, he stays in place like Wesker/Task's counter until the frames are over.
*Cuttin' Time hyper is now a LVL3. Does 422K and is invincible on start up.
*Teleport malfunction now causes a soft knockdown instead of a hard knockdown
*Trigger happy assist changed to L version. Start up of assist version increased slightly so teleport mix ups aren't impossible to react to.
*Chimichangas! after Quickslice made easier to execute.
*St.S hit box increased, easier to chain slide into launcher
*Trigger Happy durability per shot increased from 0.8 to 1.
Nothing too outrageous here. LVL3 counters are garbage, it should be a LVL1 with reduced damage. His previous LVL1 is just a combo extending hyper, can in most cases be replaced by his gun hyper. It being a standard LVL3 allows Deadpool to do very good damage if he has meter on deck which he usually does. The rest are obvious changes, like the durability on his Trigger Happy M gun which are pathetically low.
*LVL3 is now a LVL1 counter. Damage reduced to 300K. Deadpool does not move forward, he stays in place like Wesker/Task's counter until the frames are over.
*Cuttin' Time hyper is now a LVL3. Does 422K and is invincible on start up.
*Teleport malfunction now causes a soft knockdown instead of a hard knockdown
*Trigger happy assist changed to L version. Start up of assist version increased slightly so teleport mix ups aren't impossible to react to.
*Chimichangas! after Quickslice made easier to execute.
*St.S hit box increased, easier to chain slide into launcher
*Trigger Happy durability per shot increased from 0.8 to 1.
Nothing too outrageous here. LVL3 counters are garbage, it should be a LVL1 with reduced damage. His previous LVL1 is just a combo extending hyper, can in most cases be replaced by his gun hyper. It being a standard LVL3 allows Deadpool to do very good damage if he has meter on deck which he usually does. The rest are obvious changes, like the durability on his Trigger Happy M gun which are pathetically low.
Karsticles
Member
Yay! I love these. Point by point:
200K damage, and fix the startup frames. He gets a full combo off of it, so I think the fact that it pays for itself should mean that it should do low-ish damage. Also, he needs to keep the walk...
Cool.
It needs something to hold it back a bit. It's not an assist on him for a reason. Maybe it only fires 6 bullets or something. This would be like Unibeam.
Yeah, what's with that?
Ehhh. My problem with this is Cuttin' Time is currently a very good DHC since it goes into the cinematic screen, and you'd be ruining some people's teams because of this.
Nice change.
ROFL no.
His angled up and angled down Trigger happy ALREADY have 1 point of durability per bullet as does his assist.
I said the assist version will have more start up and the fact that it hits 10 times mean it will scale combo more. It also doesn't have much active frames like Unibeam.
This is a good point.
Karsticles
Member
Why is that relevant?
The low projectile durability is balanced by the fact that it hits at so many angles. Deadpool wins firefights through his screen coverage being hard to counter, not durability wars. It doesn't hinder him. Plus he has numerous other options if that doesn't pull through. I'm more inclined to reduce all of his attacks to 0.8 durability per bullet instead of upgrading the M version.
I'm more inclined to agree with your edited version, but how many startup frames?
The problem with DP having 0.8 durability per shot is that when he is zoning with the air M shot they are not all concentrated to one zone. Projectiles like Soul Fist end up going through it unless you manage to hit all bullets with it. I am willing to settle for 0.8 on the grounded versions including the assist (as they are all concentrated to one spot) but for the aerial versions I want 1 per shot as you can't align all the shots at one spot.
The start up for the assist would be closer to Unibeams start up.
The start up for the assist would be closer to Unibeams start up.
Karsticles
Member
That's my point. His bullets are spread out. If you make them spread out and give them high durability, you're giving him too much.
Plus, Deadpool doesn't have to zone on the ground, and you typically pair him with another projectile assist. If the firefight isn't to his advantage, Deadpool can use Trigger Happy L (Air) to get in while covering himself, something available to a very small number of characters in this game. He also has the Ninja Gifts, which are sorely underloved by Deadpool players (the grenade has Medium priority!). Plus he has the double jump and teleport. You bet Soul Fist should beat Trigger Happy M (though it doesn't...).
I'm good on the assist's startup time.
The ground bounce seems to have a height dependency, assuming your combo is something like: (Corner) c.LMH Stinger xx Trick L > s.MHStinger xx Lunar Phase xx Devil Trigger > Rawtag, works fine and you can link Flame Carpet + Rapid Slash.
Midscreen is pretty tricky because, if you already used up your ground bounce, you can't do the rawtag, and doing an early Lunar Phase scales your combo to shit, so it's not really practical.
I came up with a rawtag combo that's corner only, but is really difficult and doesn't necessarily work on every character.
Basic Vergil Rising Sun Hitconfim > C.HStinger xx Roundtrip > Rawtag Dormammu > Move slightly forward to have opponent facing corner > s.S +Call Vergil > j.HS (opponent lands into Rapid Slash) j.S again. Purification xx Whatever.
Nova's assist is just really good in general, especially for ground bouncers.
Definitely
This list is pretty good, though I'd get a Trish or Vergil Round Trip in there too. Oh and I'd take Dante's Million Carats over Crystal too. This is kind of an extension of assists that should have their second component come out too, like Orbital Grudge > Fatal Buster. I'd like to see Strange have the Flames of the Faltine beam when he has 3 Grace of Hoggaths out.
Activate on first frame, that's pretty happy bday proof!
Speaking of which, no one mentioned Morrigan in the first 6 pages of that sexy video game characters thread. Humanity disgusts me.
I was checking the OT1 posts when I got the game urleh and people were going crazy, posting gifs and reacting to all the info, which in retrospect, didn't amount to much (PW's 1+ million Level 1 XF Level 3).
Just wanted to say how much I love you guys. Mahvel GAF is best GAF.
Horribly old and horribly outdated:
Just wanted to say how much I love you guys. Mahvel GAF is best GAF.
Horribly old and horribly outdated:
Killa Sasa
Member
I can't speak for anyone else but I never stopped.
Karsticles
Member
That picture...*smiles to self*
If I were to participate in that thread, I would be called a "breast fetishist" like that one fellow.
Top 5 ladies in gaming to me (no particular order):
1) Morrigan
2) Dragon's Crown Sorceress
3) Selvaria Bles
4) Bayonetta
5) Tifa Lockhart
My type is pretty apparent. I thought about posting pictures, but decided against it. Amusingly enough, there's a Skyrim mod to make your character look like the DC Sorceress. What a dedicated fanbase for a game that barely exists!
You're my Jesus.
That's be 1D2C. Only 1D2C and 2D1C come out after frame 1. 1D1C does not, but it still covers a huge part of the screen and would be a vicious tool.
Whenever people post pictures of WRPG women, I have to think they're joking. The uncanny vally is just...uggghhh. Until graphics are as real as reality, I prefer some stylization.
If I were to participate in that thread, I would be called a "breast fetishist" like that one fellow.
Top 5 ladies in gaming to me (no particular order):
1) Morrigan
2) Dragon's Crown Sorceress
3) Selvaria Bles
4) Bayonetta
5) Tifa Lockhart
My type is pretty apparent. I thought about posting pictures, but decided against it. Amusingly enough, there's a Skyrim mod to make your character look like the DC Sorceress. What a dedicated fanbase for a game that barely exists!
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Hey remember when everyone got banned? lol
;_;
Those scans. I dedicated my Iron Fist tech video to the fallen.
SolarKnight
Member
Hahaha, that will never not be amusing. I wonder what that would look like if it were to be updated.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Yeah someone should update that thing.