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Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!

Frantic

Member
I use the H version for the double Soul Fist combo. My own combo I use works better with the L version, though.

I usually drop the 2x Soul Fist combo at the input for the second Soul Fist. I do:
j.MMH, qcf.H, qcb.S, ADD, j.MH, qcb.S

My brain just fails to do another Soul Fist. -_-.
Alright, just wanted to be sure. When I learned it, I never looked up the inputs so went off what I've seen, and it wasn't until I tried the heavy version that I was able to get it to work.

Have you ever tried cutting out the j.M? Sometimes having an extra button or two throws off my execution.
 
Why are you coming back to this game begrudgingly?

Because Persona is dead. Died as soon as both top players left.

That said, Wesker/Vergil/Akuma works. If you're gonna play Wesker on point on a non-gimmick team, Vergil, Spencer or Dr.Strange has to be second. Spencer and Strange also have two out of the three best offensive assists for Wesker conversions.
 

TWILT

Banned
Working on a Spider-Man team. His combos are pretty fun to do, even though I hate doing RDP motions. So far, Spider-Man(a)/Dante(a)/Doom(b) is my team, though I'm thinking about replacing Doom with Wesker (mainly to do the Ultimate Web reset easier) or Hawkeye (that and I don't really like playing Doom lol.)
I just hate trying to figure out who I want to main, as I tend to flip flop multiple times before finally settling down.

Also the game frustrates me like no other fighting game. I honestly find it harder to do combos in this than in Guilty Gear.

Guess Ill stick with Morrigan. Looks like Im gonna go Morrigan/Vergil/Akuma.

Clearly, we need to play sometime. :3
 

Onemic

Member
Working on a Spider-Man team. His combos are pretty fun to do, even though I hate doing RDP motions. So far, Spider-Man(a)/Dante(a)/Doom(b) is my team, though I'm thinking about replacing Doom with Wesker (mainly to do the Ultimate Web reset easier) or Hawkeye (that and I don't really like playing Doom lol.)


Clearly, we need to play sometime. :3

It'll be a long while before Im not a pack of free wins. The only combo I know how to do is Akumas midscreen BnB and that's only in training mode. Not to mention that I'm still not very familiar with the movement of this game.
 
Alright, so one of the things I've always wanted in teammates for Dormammu is a safe cover against characters who have answers to Stalking Flare. If I do Stalking Flare and Ryu does Shinkuu Hadoken, Shadow Servant beats it clean and Stalking Flare still gets about 5 of its hits in. With Firebrand, I had Luminous Body. With Vergil, I had Devil Trigger.

What does Akuma have? Well, it turns out he has something better than any of those characters.

I sat down tonight and tested the Stalking Flare vs. Shinkuu Hadoken situation, followed by a DHC to Akuma. I assumed that DHCing to Messatsu-Gohado Ungyo would win or trade, so I tried that first. Surprisingly, Akuma lost that exchange, and I felt some despair.

Then I tried Messatsu-Gohado Agyo. Ready for weirdness? It trades with Shinkuu Hadoken. That's right, the fireballs trade with the beam, but the beam loses to the beam. I don't understand it myself, but that's how it goes.

Then I tried Messatsu-Goshoryu just for fun, and that's what really floored me. It's old news that Messatsu-Goshoryu negates beams. What I didn't know is that it doesn't just negate beams that hit Akuma, but it actually destroys the beam itself. So, normally, if this exchange happens:
Stalking Flare, opponent Shinkuu Hadokens, I XFC for safety;
Dormammu will be safe, but Shinkuu Hadoken burns all but 4-5 hits of the Stalking Flare out, so it's not a big win for me. It does maybe 50K damage.

However, when I DHC from Stalking Flare to Messatsu-Goshoryu, because the beam is negated, all 20 hits of Stalking Flare connect! It never interacts with the beam at all.

That's not what the big deal is, though.

Stalking Flare keeps Ryu in hitstun long enough for Akuma to recover and perform a full combo on Ryu, and by full combo, I mean:
c.LMHS, sj.MMH, rdp.L~L, j.H, j.MMH, qcb.L, c.MHS, sj.MMH, qcb.L, qcf.AA, and then whatever depending on your screen position.

It all hits.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that this is Dormammu's best DHC response to a beam from Stalking Flare. Even if your opponent decides to XFC to safety, then Akuma gets the blockstun from Stalking Flare for several mix-ups with c.L and his standing overhead.

So, me being me, you know what I have to do: I have to test it against everything. All tests were DHC attempts by Dormammu after the opponent's cinematic screen appeared. If I say shoryu "wins", I generally meant that Akuma gets a full combo out of the situation, but I wasn't consistent on the word usage. If the beam wins, it often leads to a full combo because Stalking Flare picks the opponent up for an air juggle, which gives Akuma just enough time to wavedash, superjump, and rdp.L~L into a ground bounce.

Ice Storm - no DHC possible post-screen, pre-screen Akuma wins with beam or shoryu.
Elemental Rage - Akuma wins with beam or shoryu.
Okami Shuffle - Akuma loses with beam or shoryu; fireballs trade, and trade in his favor.
Hyper Sentinel Force - Akuma beam and shoryu lose, fireballs win big time.
Proton Cannon - Akuma beam loses (but you get a TvC style fireball war), fireballs trade, shoryu wins
Magnetic Shockwave - Beam and fireballs trade, shoryu wins if you delay it, and Akuma still gets a full combo
Spell of Vishanti - I'm sure Akuma beats this with the shoryu, but it's not reasonable to beat on reaction; you could bait it, though
For the Princess - not even the Shun Goku Satsu beats this stuff - so good!
Grenade Launcher - negates the beam, but not the flare (weird); negates the flare, but not the fireballs (second grenade hits Akuma), grenades rock the shoryu
Round Harvest - beam wins and leads to happy things, fireballs win, shoryu wins but might not lead to a combo
Maximum Voltage - Akuma always wins
Genmu Zero - beam and fireballs lose, shoryu loses unless you DHC right as the beam will hit; Zero still recovers faster I think
Desperado - shoryu wins, beam gets Akuma hit but saves flare, fireballs win
Phoenix Rage - shoryu and beam win, fireballs lose but save flare
Gamma Tsunami - beam wins, fireballs lose, shoryu wins with timing
Gamma Crush - beam and fireballs lose (duh), shoryu wins because you go under Hulk and recover in time for a full combo from Stalking Flare
Nova's beam - beam and fireballs lose, shoryu wins
Human Rocket - beam and fireballs lose (duh), shoryu wins in a clash if you time it right, but it's iffy since Nova can direct his hyper
Rock n' Roll - beam wins, fireball and shoryu lose
Hyper Psionic Blaster - beam wins, fireball...Akuma gets hit and recovers, beam no longer hurts him, giving him a full combo; Stalking Flare gets destroyed, shoryu wins
Hyper Mystic Ray - beam wins, fireball trades, shoryu wins
Hyper Mystic Smash - beam wins, fireball loses, shoryu does very little
Gimlet - beam, fireball, and shoryu win

I didn't test anything that already loses substantially to Stalking Flare, and I didn't test anything not projectile-based, since things like Bionic Arm and Hyper Charging Star will clearly lose to the shoryu's invincibility.

Basically, it looks like Akuma might be the best DHC Dormammu has to save his butt from a bad Stalking Flare, which also makes him the best bait DHC, meaning he lets Dormammu use Stalking Flare against nearly every opponent that he previously had to be careful about its usage against. Naturally, with my team structure, this is like Christmas.
 
Alright, just wanted to be sure. When I learned it, I never looked up the inputs so went off what I've seen, and it wasn't until I tried the heavy version that I was able to get it to work.

Have you ever tried cutting out the j.M? Sometimes having an extra button or two throws off my execution.
The j.M is what makes it landable to that degree for me. If I do Soul Fist H, ADD, j.H, I'm too slow most of the time. I can land j.MH, though. JJJ does j.MH - I got the idea from watching him.

There are a lot of Morrigan combos, though, so I might just try something else out. Someone on SRK just posted a new one that seems a bit easier for me...

I appreciate you checking, regardless. I started off doing the L version and didn't know why I couldn't do it, haha. So, if you caught me about 5 months ago, I'd be saved.

Because I've been using the overhead assist lol. The theme of the team is unblockables.
Oh right!

Edit:
Oh Morrigan combos:
j.S, s.LMH, f.H, j.MHS, s.M, c.M, s.H, c.HS, sj.MMH, dp.H, qcf.AA - 475K.

New combo:
j.S, s.LM, f.M + Dark Hole, qcf.S, walk, s.S, sj.MMHS, qcf.S, dp.AA - 440K, but it steals 2/3rds of a bar. Seems like the better thing to do if Dormammu is around.
 

Zissou

Member
As far as I know, this is still the standard strider solo bnb when you start with form B already summoned:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhpRB9r6KAE

I feel so dumb that I only now found a way to make this combo easier on myself. The way the dude in the video does it requires pretty precise timing of exactly how low to the ground you must perform the 263H after the wall cling H. If you do it too high, you take so long to fall to the ground afterwards that you don't have time to summon formation B before the grounded 263L. The lower to the ground you perform the air 263H, the more time you have to summon formation B before the ground 263L, but if you are too low, you end up out of range for the ground 263L to hit.

Up until now, I just performed the air gram really high so that I would be 100% certain the grounded light gram would connect and then I'd immediately go into zoo hyper. This lopped off a decent chunk of the damage from the combo however, dropping it from 620k to 550k or so. I was messing around in training mode and I realized if I perform the air gram really close to the ground, I can dash forward, cancel the dash with the formation B summon, and I'm now in range for gram to hit easily but without the timing/speed requirements of doing it the way it's shown in the video. I feel really dumb for not even trying it earlier! Also, it'll be nice to have the option to omit the form B/vajra into zoo ender and keep formation B for the oki mix-up.
 

Azure J

Member
That was one of the things I had to learn by fire myself Zissou, the spacing part to get the last relaunch into Vajra always killed me since I'd get the high Gram H and not enough time to land, summon Form B, and Gram L.

At the same time though, I'm glad I know now that 600K (or 475+ without meter) is good for Strider. I have this one combo I'm working on that gets to 520K but I never ever get the Legion followup afterwards. Stupid links.

@Western: Fuck Vergil. (translation: Dante da bess, I would have played Vergil but with totally different composition like Morrigan/Doom/Vergil and mindset for him :p)
 

mr. puppy

Banned
Damn I learned my lesson....Don't bring RR and Ammy online.

Also, I think I'm gonna drop ammy from this and get a better assist for RR when hes halfway across the screen.

Maybe I'll do Firebrand/RR/Drones or FB/RR/Missiles and see what happens. Was thinking repulsor, jam session or something else lockdown but I already have Log for anti-air stuff and I want something with more horizantal coverage.


thats awesome work.

i like that blue color scheme, I remember the biggest headache I ever got from the stupid game was getting VDS to have matching colors. Striders color set is so stupid and never matches with things :mad:.
 
I'm telling you man just play Vergil. And those combos into TOD with DHC into swords. Haha I tried that team out of the blue the other day and even though my Vergil is ass I was shock at how well they work together.

I also like Dante/Vergil/Hawkeye but I need to learn hawkeye.

Eww, C.Viper/Dante/Strider is much better than C.Viper/Dante/Vergil!
 

Azure J

Member
thats awesome work.

i like that blue color scheme, I remember the biggest headache I ever got from the stupid game was getting VDS to have matching colors. Striders color set is so stupid and never matches with things :mad:.

Thanks. :)

Re: Colors

That's a bit surprising to hear, the white version of the team is pretty awesome looking (Viper 4/Dante 3/Strider 4) although if I really had to nitpick, I'd say tht I wish Strider had splashes of the one true color - blue - to match up. I'm a big fan of Breath of Fire Dante, but recently the blue alt has grown on me in ways I never expected. There's also team red too. (Viper 6/Dante 1/Strider 2 or 6 depending on how you feel about vivid Red vs warm red.)
 

mr. puppy

Banned
Eww, C.Viper/Dante/Strider is much better than C.Viper/Dante/Vergil!

it is but CDV can be kinda fun.

All of these X/DV teams are ass though, I have no idea why they dont do Viper/Vergil/Dante, which is not bad at all.

I really think Vergil is better with Jam Session than Vajra btw.
 

LakeEarth

Member
I'm getting bored of getting rocked during the opening gambit with Nemesis, and I'm thinking of switching to Nova, since I have a decent understanding of Spencer and they seem to be BFFs. I'm not sure who to add to the mix.

Frank West - shopping cart is great for both characters, and Nova can level up Frank off a single hit, but that requires putting Frank second and Spencer's slant shot does nothing for Frank. Also not the greatest anchor.
Taskmaster, Hawkeye, Doom - Nova/Spencer benefit with beam assist, but these assist do not lock down.

I may bite the bullet and learn Sentinel or Dr Strange, but I'm not really a fan of either of em.
 
I'm getting bored of getting rocked during the opening gambit with Nemesis, and I'm thinking of switching to Nova, since I have a decent understanding of Spencer and they seem to be BFFs. I'm not sure who to add to the mix.

Frank West - shopping cart is great for both characters, and Nova can level up Frank off a single hit, but that requires putting Frank second and Spencer's slant shot does nothing for Frank. Also not the greatest anchor.
Taskmaster, Hawkeye, Doom - Nova/Spencer benefit with beam assist, but these assist do not lock down.

I may bite the bullet and learn Sentinel or Dr Strange, but I'm not really a fan of either of em.
You still lose the opening gambit with Nemesis when backed by Shopping Cart?
 

LakeEarth

Member
Most people start with a quick opening jumping move, and Nemesis moves are so slow (8 frames is as fast as it gets). Shopping cart tends to sail under that, or get hit on startup.
 

shaowebb

Member
I think I'm probably done messing around with other characters for an alt team for now. Haggar is still fun, but I got my main team settled so I think what I'll do now is just practice with them when I play and try to squeeze in more time for KoF XIII. I couldn't hit shit with my K' the other day and now he's fine again so its obviously suffering from me not playing it. Guess I'm finally settled on with what I'm doing in these games.

Also I may be able after fists of fury to link up daggers to let Iron Fist get more from his combos before 2 meters are needed. I'm trying to get him able to rekka into rising fang or wall of Kun lun somehow with this, so I can get a wall bounce but its dropping. I may have to resort to jump cancel combos and see if Taskmaster arrows can keep it running long enough to make it worth it. Guys keep dropping though so it may be a scaling issue.
 
Update:
I did forget to test Chaotic Flame, but results were as expected when I did. Fireball trades, beam loses, shoryu wins.

I also had another thought:
Stalking Flare is ineffective against teleporters because they get an easy punish during Dormammu's long recovery time. What if I beamed them on reaction? Then I looked at Akuma's hyper inputs, and realized he has no QCB or RDP hyper, which means I don't even have to use my brain!

Anything time a beam worked, I think the fireball also worked. Shoryu never works because it's too slow.

Test results:
Vergil Trick Down - Punishable
Dante Air Trick - Not Punishable (fuck you Dante)
Strider Teleport - Not Punishable (too high for Akuma's hyper to hit)
Phoenix's Teleport - Punishable
Deadpool's Teleport - Not Punishable
Dr. Strange's Teleport - Punishable if Dr. Strange has no meter, since he can cancel into his anti-beam hyper otherwise
Rocket Raccoon - Punishable
Dormammu - Punishable (beam only)

Not bad!

Edit:
Dark Hole lets Akuma relaunch a second time.
c.LMHS, sj.MMH, rdp.L~L, j.H, j.MMH, qcb.L, c.MHS, sj.MMHS, Dark Hole, rdp.M~M, s.S, sj.H, qcb.L, qcf.AA, sj.S, qcf.H, qcf.AA(hold)

Edit2:
I never knew Jill had a standing overhead.
 
watching/playing the fanatiq / rayray money match from ect4 while at work...just to have something in the headphones. man, mike's trolling commentary is so gdlk.
 

Azure J

Member
Okay question of the day: Why do people think Vergil sucks with Hidden Missiles?

I really don't know myself. Solune already showed that they can be insane for combo extensions and the like. I'm guessing people are thinking "no instant left right tool" is a bad idea with him, but eh.
 

mr. puppy

Banned
I really don't know myself. Solune already showed that they can be insane for combo extensions and the like. I'm guessing people are thinking "no instant left right tool" is a bad idea with him, but eh.

I've seen enough of Vergil/Shopping cart to know that lockdown is just as good with him, the character creates his own left/right bullshit without beams.

Here's some good idea of the damage you can do, but of course this is based upon having missiles available mid combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6yQwC9AgfIY
 

Dahbomb

Member
Okay question of the day: Why do people think Vergil sucks with Hidden Missiles?
No one says he sucks with Hidden Missiles but it's not his best assist. It limits his "cheap" mix up potential because otherwise his right/lefts are predictably easy to scout out. You then default to chipping the opponent out with Missiles and Swords which isn't the most effective strategy if you don't have a lot of meter around.
 
I just lost a match because of this...

Strider starts his Vajra and goes up, I use Ace Attorney, it whiffs, Strider comes back down with Vajra and it alone is enough for a kill. Shit. I guess the time Strider is off screen means he's invulnerable. I didn't think I would have to wait for him to get back down.
 

Azure J

Member
I just lost a match because of this...

Strider starts his Vajra and goes up, I use Ace Attorney, it whiffs, Strider comes back down with Vajra and it alone is enough for a kill. Shit. I guess the time Strider is off screen means he's invulnerable. I didn't think I would have to wait for him to get back down.

Yeah, the time he spends in transit, he is considered invulnerable since he's literally no where on screen (same for most teleports, but Strider's are most pronounced and have a loooong period of other dimension time). I kinda use this a lot against a lot of those bullshit tracking type or full screen BEAMZ supers, especially if I have X-Factor (overheads for days) or 3 meters for a Ragnarok against people who want to mash that grab on block. :lol
 

Zissou

Member
Yeah, the time he spends in transit, he is considered invulnerable since he's literally no where on screen (same for most teleports, but Strider's are most pronounced and have a loooong period of other dimension time). I kinda use this a lot against a lot of those bullshit tracking type or full screen BEAMZ supers, especially if I have X-Factor (overheads for days) or 3 meters for a Ragnarok against people who want to mash that grab on block. :lol

I know all of strider's and RR's ports work like this, but who else has ones with the invunerablility in the middle? I was glancing through the guide and didn't see others, but I only had a minute to check before work.
 

JeTmAn81

Member
I just lost a match because of this...

Strider starts his Vajra and goes up, I use Ace Attorney, it whiffs, Strider comes back down with Vajra and it alone is enough for a kill. Shit. I guess the time Strider is off screen means he's invulnerable. I didn't think I would have to wait for him to get back down.

I know Phoenix Wright needs all the help he can get, but I can't help feeling smug whenever someone misses that ridiculous super.
 

Azure J

Member
just noticed you have mario in your avatar azure. what is your avatar anyway?

Mike Jones from StarTropics on the NES done in the Scribblenauts style with the Marvel 3 character roster ring in the background framing him.

Mandatory plug: StarTropics is a fun but decidedly 90s early attempt kind of game series (the first one is one of my first 3 games ever played) I'd love to see come back with the strong "old things, new spins" era we've been having lately.
 
I know Phoenix Wright needs all the help he can get, but I can't help feeling smug whenever someone misses that ridiculous super.

Do you know what grinds my gears? C.Viper level 1 punch super and x23's rush super just flat out beats the AA from nearly full screen. They have so much invincibility to them. Even if I delay AA to the last possible second and at the very very end of their super I usually still get hit.

Or how about when someone calls their assist and their assist happens to be in front of their character right when you pull a AA and you hit the assist character and not the point character and get punished for it. That's the worst feeling.
 

Azure J

Member
Take it from someone playing her seriously, Viper bleeds invincibility. For everything else, there's Focus Attack.

Edit: That assist thing has cost me so many matches, it's frightening. Also, smurf, I was thinking about something you said before about assists re-standing but getting caught up in a combo when I saw it happen to me like twice in the same match (towards me and then towards my opponent). It seems like if you have a meaty fast-active multi-hit move and stick it out right as they're getting back up, there's a window where they can still get combo'd. This game is balanced. [/SmexyMillz]
 
Morrigan/Akuma/Strider probably works better. Strider is a better anchor and he can use Vajra really well. Also, your DHCs are going to work better. There might be some interesting stuff with Missiles -> Animals, but I dunno if it's worth losing the Akuma hypers over.
 

JeTmAn81

Member
Do you know what grinds my gears? C.Viper level 1 punch super and x23's rush super just flat out beats the AA from nearly full screen. They have so much invincibility to them. Even if I delay AA to the last possible second and at the very very end of their super I usually still get hit.

Or how about when someone calls their assist and their assist happens to be in front of their character right when you pull a AA and you hit the assist character and not the point character and get punished for it. That's the worst feeling.

I kinda know how that feels. It seems like Dante's level 3 gets beat by just about every other level 3, and there are a lot of regular moves that have enough invincibility to stuff it too (dumb Lariat).

the health of your team is one of the things you should care the least about in this game

It's sort of ironic how the prevalence of ToD in this game means it actually makes more sense to play the lower-health, higher damage/mobility characters.
 

Azure J

Member
You know for all my stuff on getting damage, it's very rare that I go that route in matches. This game is dominated by characters and setups that want to kill you outright so that basically means the game is decided entirely on movement. However you impede someone else's while being crispy with yours is going to become huge and a lot of people are going to start moving in that direction soon.

It's also probably the reason why I really love my team currently.
 

Zissou

Member
But doesn't the recent upswing in people playing more zoning-based teams mean health counts for a bit more, metagame-wise? Soul fist chip feels much more immediately threatening at 750k health than it does if you have 950k.
 

mr. puppy

Banned
It's sort of ironic how the prevalence of ToD in this game means it actually makes more sense to play the lower-health, higher damage/mobility characters.

except spencer though. that guy has a ton of health and TOD ability and a lot of people dont kill him in one hit.
 
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