QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72509391]
New Jojo's is gonna suck and everybody knows it.
[/QUOTE]
Oh thank god you are sane
New Jojo's is gonna suck and everybody knows it.
[/QUOTE]
Oh thank god you are sane
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 |OT3| To infinites... and beyond!
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72509391]GGs Beef, Joe still best in the game. I see you've learned how to TAC the same direction twice in a row.[/quote]
No secret tech?
No secret tech?
At our age, they're definitely a risk in terms of investment.None of the new RPGs seem fun to me.
This is relieving to hear you say. But will you buy it to show support for the series?New Jojo's is gonna suck and everybody knows it.
Zero interest in Dragon's Crown?There aren't any other PS3 games I want to play except the Last of Us and I'm playing that with my best friend on her PS3 when she gets back from Korea.
Fair enough.Not especially, no. Damage itself and the types of attack generally fill some other hole in the character's game. I'd rather just give the ones that are bad like Trish's something than give extra stuff to all of them just because. We should really be focusing on viabilty and not changing the game to our will. We've done way too much of that as it is. That's a different conversation.
"God's Beard!"
Member
No secret tech?
Beef used to follow a little pattern of TACs, so after the first one or two it usually got pretty easy to break him in long sets. And Beef knows about the secret tech so it's harder to use in these situations.
This is relieving to hear you say. But will you buy it to show support for the series?
Not if I sell my PS3. I didn't buy the last one on PSN either because I didn't think anyone would play it.
I bought that other game they did Odin Sphere and thought it was terrible.Zero interest in Dragon's Crown?
Karsticles
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72510056]I bought that other game they did Odin Sphere and thought it was terrible.[/QUOTE]
You should watch some gameplay - they've definitely stepped up their game this time around.
You should watch some gameplay - they've definitely stepped up their game this time around.
Professor Beef
Banned
I'm only immune to the secret tech online.
I also didn't notice I was using a pattern, lol.
EDIT: HOW DOES HAWKEYE BEAT ARTHUR OMG :lol
I also didn't notice I was using a pattern, lol.
EDIT: HOW DOES HAWKEYE BEAT ARTHUR OMG :lol
"God's Beard!"
Member
It's better that you think that.I'm only immune to the secret tech online.
Professor Beef
Banned
Akuma is so garbage on my team. And this match with Felicia, OMG. :lol :lol :lol
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Akuma is so garbage on my team. And this match with Felicia, OMG. :lol :lol :lol
My felicia is the best
the worst
Professor Beef
Banned
GGs Q. I don't know why I found those matches so funny. It was probably Felicia flying all across the screen and shit. :lol
No need to change Viper's LVL3 but Cap's LVL3 definitely I would change.Do you think C. Viper, Trish, and Captain America should have post-level 3 follow-ups? I think we all know that Trish's level 3 is going to become OTG capable.
Raging Demon does have the beam hyper follow-up. I think, that if you really want to, you can XFC the beam and get a full combo.
So you think I should just keep Vergil on Judgment Cut L?
Keep it JC assist as version L.
The way I would change Cap's LVL3 is I would make it like Iron Avenger. Faster and further travel, more invincibility. If you start off with the LVL3, you can pick them up OTG after LVL3 into a scaled combo using Shield Slash L. It's already causes hard knockdown so you either have to increase techable time or adjust the distance so Shield Slash L is able to OTG. If you use Final Justice at the end of the combo, you can still hit them with Shield Slash but you won't be able to relaunch due to HSD. So you will just get Shield Slash L HCS.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yeah that's pretty much what I was saying about Final Justice, it's dumb that his level 3 big finisher can't even connect at the end of most of his BnB's that's pretty ass backwardsNo need to change Viper's LVL3 but Cap's LVL3 definitely I would change.
Keep it JC assist as version L.
The way I would change Cap's LVL3 is I would make it like Iron Avenger. Faster and further travel, more invincibility. If you start off with the LVL3, you can pick them up OTG after LVL3 into a scaled combo using Shield Slash L. It's already causes hard knockdown so you either have to increase techable time or adjust the distance so Shield Slash L is able to OTG. If you use Final Justice at the end of the combo, you can still hit them with Shield Slash but you won't be able to relaunch due to HSD. So you will just get Shield Slash L HCS.
SloaneRisette
Member
Definitely agree with that Final Justice change, but again, don't think Cap needs much else. He's already really good (at least in my opinion-- obviously not top tier, but still good), and he doesn't need much else than what we have.
The other thing that he needs which I touched upon was that he still needs a legitimate block string/hit confirm. Cr.L being +2 is great and all but how am I going to confirm that? It's not chainable although st.L is but st.L is still negative. All of his other normals are also negative and so are his specials so if I go past cr.L and they block I am not in a good position.
Only 2 way to fix that is A) making one of the ground Shield Slashes tighter so that he doesn't get punished in between the slashes. Would also prevent weird push block stuff with the move and/or be B) Make cr.L chainable. It's not like Cap is Wolverine where once he's in he's in, you can just push block him and it's not as easy for him to get back.
This would make Cap's cr.L the best in the game though... which I am OK with.
Only 2 way to fix that is A) making one of the ground Shield Slashes tighter so that he doesn't get punished in between the slashes. Would also prevent weird push block stuff with the move and/or be B) Make cr.L chainable. It's not like Cap is Wolverine where once he's in he's in, you can just push block him and it's not as easy for him to get back.
This would make Cap's cr.L the best in the game though... which I am OK with.
The other thing that he needs which I touched upon was that he still needs a legitimate block string/hit confirm. Cr.L being +2 is great and all but how am I going to confirm that? It's not chainable although st.L is but st.L is still negative. All of his other normals are also negative and so are his specials so if I go past cr.L and they block I am not in a good position.
Cap's normals have a million frames of hitstun.
All his normals are negative on hit...Cap's normals have a million frames of hitstun.
All his normals are negative on hit...
That doesn't mean anything. That just means that his normals have too much recovery. Just because a move is negative doesn't mean you can't hitconfirm it.
SloaneRisette
Member
The other thing that he needs which I touched upon was that he still needs a legitimate block string/hit confirm. Cr.L being +2 is great and all but how am I going to confirm that? It's not chainable although st.L is but st.L is still negative. All of his other normals are also negative and so are his specials so if I go past cr.L and they block I am not in a good position.
Only 2 way to fix that is A) making one of the ground Shield Slashes tighter so that he doesn't get punished in between the slashes. Would also prevent weird push block stuff with the move and/or be B) Make cr.L chainable. It's not like Cap is Wolverine where once he's in he's in, you can just push block him and it's not as easy for him to get back.
This would make Cap's cr.L the best in the game though... which I am OK with.
Yeah, that is definitely something that can be useful. I think a number of people don't really know how Cap's ground series isn't safe, but it would definitely be great to have a safe (or at least safer) series for him-- or at the least, as you said chainable cr.L or something would be nice.
And how much tighter would you think about making Shield Slash? There are points where Shield Slash can mess up my OTG relaunch in a combo due to distance (though I think that's probably due to Shield Slash not pushing the enemy far enough for the return hit to hit if I OTG too close). Gotta think about that since sometimes Cap's combos can be a bit wonky in terms of how quickly HSD can kick in for him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vergil's round trip hits you in the back even if it didn't hit you at first, but Cap's shield only hits you in the back if it hits at first. Why? Why can't Cap's shield be good? Why can't he have nice things?!
Because he doesn't have a trenchcoat or sword.
Even so, saying he has a lot of hit stun on his normals doesn't disqualify him from having an optimal hit confirm. The fact that he has a lot of recovery means he need it. What is my block string going to be? Go up cr.L?That doesn't mean anything. That just means that his normals have too much recovery.
I mean Vergil is in the same boat as Cap but he has a bunch of hit confirms and block strings especially the derpy as hell HSH into Judment Cut which is positive on block and serves as a mix up for Rapid Slash. Not to mention Vergil has safe supers and much larger normals.
Even so, saying he has a lot of hit stun on his normals doesn't disqualify him from having an optimal hit confirm. The fact that he has a lot of recovery means he need it. What is my block string going to be? Go up cr.L?
But that's the often the best option for a lot of characters.
I just don't like the idea of making his shield slash tighter. Chainable c.L would be fairly ridiculous, but better. How fast is She-Hulk's c.L?
That's the best option for characters who have a chainable cr light. Cap doesn't have that.But that's the often the best option for a lot of characters.
For comparison Trish's cr.L is 5 frames, good reach, +2 on block and chainable.
That's the best option for characters who have a chainable cr light. Cap doesn't have that.
It's a good option for Wesker, and he doesn't have a chaining c.L. You've made Cap's c.L a frame trap. It's +1 on block and comes out in 4 frames. No other normal beats it except Ammy. That's fine. I don't have an issue with it. I just don't really know if he needs it to chain or not.
It's a good option for Wesker because he has a god damn 1 frame command grab which makes you want to up back him all day making his cr.L stagger game extremely potent as it catches the up back. There is no urgency to up back Cap, just block the cr.L low and push block or wait out his shitty block string.It's a good option for Wesker, and he doesn't have a chaining c.L. You've made Cap's c.L a frame trap. It's +1 on block and comes out in 4 frames. No other normal beats it except Ammy.
And Wesker's normals are much safer, this is the guy who has a -1 launcher.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vergil's round trip hits you in the back even if it didn't hit you at first, but Cap's shield only hits you in the back if it hits at first. Why? Why can't Cap's shield be good? Why can't he have nice things?!
I'm pretty sure this is false. It's part of why Captain America's tend to use the upward Shield Slash pre-emptively on incoming characers.
And yea Cap's shield definitely hits on the way back as long as he isn't blocking or getting hit. God's Beard thinks the shield should still hit even if Cap is blocking.
Another way to fix Cap's block string problem is to give the first hit of a grounded Shield Slash more push back on block. This way the opponent has to block the second hit too as they are pushed back into it closing the gap.
Another way to fix Cap's block string problem is to give the first hit of a grounded Shield Slash more push back on block. This way the opponent has to block the second hit too as they are pushed back into it closing the gap.
The last thing you want to do is add another "hidden missiles" to the game, lol.And yea Cap's shield definitely hits on the way as long as he isn't blocking or getting hit. God's Beard thinks the shield should still hit even if Cap is blocking.
This isn't a Hidden Missile because the shield still de-activates when Cap gets hit. Although I did argue that this is close to that territory of being annoying.The last thing you want to do is add another "hidden missiles" to the game, lol.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
This isn't a Hidden Missile because the shield still de-activates when Cap gets hit. Although I did argue that this is close to that territory of being annoying.
In a sense though it's not as bad as he has to be on point for it to work like that.
The only combo break mechanic I've ever liked is Chronophantasma's due to it being tied to X-Factor. Hugely in favor of minimizing them in this game.In a sense though it's not as bad as he has to be on point for it to work like that.
It's a good option for Wesker because he has a god damn 1 frame command grab which makes you want to up back him all day making his cr.L stagger game extremely potent as it catches the up back. There is no urgency to up back Cap, just block the cr.L low and push block or wait out his shitty block string.
And Wesker's normals are much safer, this is the guy who has a -1 launcher.
True, but Wesker's launcher is going to change.
Isn't She-Hulk's c.L 7 frames or something? It reaches about the same distance as Captain America's, and Captain America already has better approach options than She-Hulk. Hers is chainable now. I guess giving Cap a chainable c.L wouldn't be broken. It just seems a little much to give him the best c.L in the game.
I just don't think Cap should ever have problems hit confirming off his normals as they are. That shouldn't be the reason to get him a chaining c.L. If you want to give it to him for additional pressure, I guess that's okay.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
The only combo break mechanic I've ever liked is Chronophantasma's due to it being tied to X-Factor. Hugely in favor of minimizing them in this game.
The burst? This is more on par with getting one of mu's lazers up your butthole.
Yeah, don't like Bursts. Having to pull off your offense because a missile or shield is coming is super lame and interferes with the flow of a match. Stationary projectiles, like Raccoon's spring traps or Strange's assist are fine, though.The burst? This is more on par with getting one of mu's lazers up your butthole.
It's less about hit confirm and more about a solid block string. Cr.L by itself is not a block string. Ideally you want to have a block string that can also be used for hit confirm by just changing around the final portion of the string.True, but Wesker's launcher is going to change.
Isn't She-Hulk's c.L 7 frames or something? It reaches about the same distance as Captain America's, and Captain America already has better approach options than She-Hulk.
I just don't think Cap should ever have problems hit confirming off his normals as they are. That shouldn't be the reason to get him a chaining c.L. If you want to give it to him for additional pressure, I guess that's okay.
And why are we comparing She Hulk to Cap? She Hulk is a heavy grappler character, Cap is a Ryu type character. You don't see me asking for a slide
for Cap.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It's less about hit confirm and more about a solid block string. Cr.L by itself is not a block string.
And why are we comparing She Hulk to Cap? She Hulk is a heavy grappler character, Cap is a Ryu type character. You don't see me asking for a slide
for Cap.
Fine guys if he cant have all that stuff lets just make H charging star safe on block and combable after with a solo otg L sheild throw that pops up enough for him to do a standing S after
Kappa
It's less about hit confirm and more about a solid block string. Cr.L by itself is not a block string. Ideally you want to have a block string that can also be used for hit confirm by just changing around the final portion of the string.
And why are we comparing She Hulk to Cap? She Hulk is a heavy grappler character, Cap is a Ryu type character. You don't see me asking for a slide
for Cap.
Honestly, it just got me thinking about ridiculous range c.Ls.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
He doesn't have ridiculous range on his c.LHonestly, it just got me thinking about ridiculous range c.Ls.
He doesn't have ridiculous range on his c.L
Cap? Yeah, he does. He moves forward during the c.L. It hits super far, especially for a 4-framer.
A more apt comparison would be Trish cr.L snd Iron Man cr.L if we want to look at chainable cr.L. Trish is essentially identical to what we have now of Cap only it's 5 frames and chainable. Same for Iron Man, he has more range but less block advantage. Ryu's cr.L is another good one, + on block, chainable, good range but 5 frame.Honestly, it just got me thinking about ridiculous range c.Ls.
For sure though if you make Cap's cr.L +2, 4 frame and chainable it becomes the best cr.L in the game. If people don't want buffs to his cr.L then give more push back on Shield Slash M/L on the ground so he has a legitimate block string.
Actually, that got me thinking. Is the reason why Cap's c.L isn't chainable because he moves forward during it? As far as I know, all chainable c.L's keep the character's position stationary, no?
All I know is that Captain America's crouching L is already very very good when spaced properly. I'm not sure what other people want, but more pushback on Shield slash seems fine, as long as the return shield also brings them in more after the initial pushback. Otherwise, it's kind of a nerf.
A more apt comparison would be Trish cr.L snd Iron Man cr.L if we want to look at chainable cr.L. Trish is essentially identical to what we have now of Cap only it's 5 frames and chainable. Same for Iron Man, he has more range but less block advantage. Ryu's cr.L is another good one, + on block, chainable but 5 frame.
For sure though if you make Cap's cr.L +2, 4 frame and chainable it becomes the best cr.L in the game. If people don't want buffs to his cr.L then give more push back on Shield Slash M/L on the ground so he has a legitimate block string.
All I know is that Captain America's crouching L is already very very good when spaced properly. I'm not sure what other people want, but more pushback on Shield slash seems fine, as long as the return shield also brings them in more after the initial pushback. Otherwise, it's kind of a nerf.
Man after seeing that FT20 with Champ and Nemo, I cant help but wonder, theres gotta be more teams like that with crazy synergy...
That's one thing I disagreed with about Viscant's interpretation of current UMvC3. I don't think we're at the end game. I think we're at a point where we can make educated changes to the current game and understand what is currently a real problem, but there is so much that is underutilized, untapped, and undiscovered.
People often scoff at new ideas, and then it blows them up.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Man after seeing that FT20 with Champ and Nemo, I cant help but wonder, theres gotta be more teams like that with crazy synergy...
You mean like Hawkeye/Vergil/Magneto? ^_^
That's one thing I disagreed with about Viscant's interpretation of current UMvC3. I don't think we're at the end game. I think we're at a point where we can make educated changes to the current game and understand what is currently a real problem, but there is so much that is underutilized, untapped, and undiscovered.
People often scoff at new ideas, and then it blows them up.
But hes right in a since that we are evolving and learning after in Marvel 3 than they did in Marvel 2, but thats just the age of internet.
But I agree, I don't think everything if figured out yet.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";72570356]You mean like Hawkeye/Vergil/Magneto? ^_^[/QUOTE]
Can't lie, soon as I saw Vergil, I scoffed. He goes with everyone! lol
Karsticles
Member
So where are we on these characters? Do I need to add stuff to the list? Why could Cap's level 3 be post-hyper comboable when C. Viper's isn't?
I'm not sure that Captain America needs more than the c.L change in terms of safe blockstrings, but I'm curious what people think.
I'm not sure that Captain America needs more than the c.L change in terms of safe blockstrings, but I'm curious what people think.
I am going to jot down the Captain America changes:
+ c.L is now +1 on block.
+ j.d+H is now better for crossing up.
+ Final Justice invincible from frames 0-36; travels faster and further. Untechable hard knockdown time increased for follow ups after Shield Slash L. Will not provide full combo if Final Justice is used at the end of a combo due to hit stun deterioration.
+ Shield Slash blockstun increased slightly
+ Shield Slash durability increased from 5 to 10
+/- Shield Slash L and Shield Slash M now push back more on the first shield block but the returning shield pulls them in more. They end up more or less at the same spot as before but the initial push back combined with the increased block stun gives Cap a safer block string option.
+ Shield Slash L has more hit stun initially on the first hit to allow for self OTG air throw pick up at low heights. Hit stun deteriorates late into a combo preventing similar combos from happening.
Debated:
+ Shield Slash hit box is not disabled if Captain America is blocking
+ c.L is now +1 on block.
+ j.d+H is now better for crossing up.
+ Final Justice invincible from frames 0-36; travels faster and further. Untechable hard knockdown time increased for follow ups after Shield Slash L. Will not provide full combo if Final Justice is used at the end of a combo due to hit stun deterioration.
+ Shield Slash blockstun increased slightly
+ Shield Slash durability increased from 5 to 10
+/- Shield Slash L and Shield Slash M now push back more on the first shield block but the returning shield pulls them in more. They end up more or less at the same spot as before but the initial push back combined with the increased block stun gives Cap a safer block string option.
+ Shield Slash L has more hit stun initially on the first hit to allow for self OTG air throw pick up at low heights. Hit stun deteriorates late into a combo preventing similar combos from happening.
Debated:
+ Shield Slash hit box is not disabled if Captain America is blocking
"God's Beard!"
Member
I'm probably the only person in the world that uses Vergil as a throwaway character for the assist.Can't lie, soon as I saw Vergil, I scoffed. He goes with everyone! lol
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I'm ok with all these changesI am going to jot down the Captain America changes:
+ c.L is now +1 on block.
+ j.d+H is now better for crossing up.
+ Final Justice invincible from frames 0-36; travels faster and further. Untechable hard knockdown time increased for follow ups after Shield Slash L. Will not provide full combo if Final Justice is used at the end of a combo due to hit stun deterioration.
+ Shield Slash blockstun increased slightly
+ Shield Slash durability increased from 5 to 10
+/- Shield Slash L and Shield Slash M now push back more on the first shield block but the returning shield pulls them in more. They end up more or less at the same spot as before but the initial push back combined with the increased block stun gives Cap a safer block string option.
+ Shield Slash L has more hit stun initially on the first hit to allow for self OTG air throw pick up at low heights. Hit stun deteriorates late into a combo preventing similar combos from happening.
Debated:
+ Shield Slash hit box is not disabled if Captain America is blocking
Biased