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[Raistlin]

I love news articles that state 'x specification is completed' ... and then don't give shit for details of said specification.

:\



Granted it looks like this is the BDA's fault, as their own press release gives no real information. Seems like this is more about getting the format and its new fancy logo in the news rather than actually informing people on what it means.

 

[inner-G]

Is everyone ready? We're finally here.

UHD/4k is the format that will finally kill physical media.

Because it'll be so easy for the mass market to stream 100GB movies, right?

 

[Pryce]

If 2001 or Lawrence of Arabia is not one of the first films re-mastered then they will have failed.

 

[Raistlin]

Because it'll be so easy for the mass market to stream 100GB movies, right?

To be fair, a lot of people are fine with Netflix, etc versus BD.

So the question becomes will their and competitors' 4K + HDR streaming content be 'good enough' for most people?


The pool of people that can take advantage of it currently will be less though, that's true. But then again some people are fine streaming 720p or less. Will be very interesting to see how this pans out.





Now me personally, I care about audio/video quality. So for movies I'm really interested in ... I'll buy it on disc. What's unknown is how niche that sort of thing is moving forward.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Because it'll be so easy for the mass market to stream 100GB movies, right?

You think this same mass market is going to upgrade their expensive HD sets and Bluray players and re-buy their movies that they just bought *again* for a difference in image quality that the average joe blow couldn't give a fuck about? My comment doesn't imply people flocking to a non-existant infrastructure to stream their 4k movies and content, but more a mass indifference to this new format and the new hardware required to enjoy it. Hell, there are still millions who haven't upgraded to regular HD yet.

The next 5 years is going to be a segmented clusterfuck as yet another new format rolls out adjacent to normal DVDs and standard Blurays, what is UHD-capable hardware and what isn't, all the while streaming services are upping their game The more convenient less expensive route will always win, 4k or not.

 

[Raistlin]

No 4k 3d support............ FUCK

That's not surprising.

Even discounting memory constraints, there are bandwidth limitations with HDMI. I really wish CE's would go with Super-MHL or Display Port ... but it's a complicated issue.

Maybe a later revision will add it, but right now the home market for 3D just isn't really a primary concern due to low usage. I think the only thing that will really bump it up is if auto-stereoscopic and passive get a big push from TV makers. People just don't like dealing with glasses, but particularly shutter glasses. They are expensive, bulky, and need regular battery replacements or charging. It's just more than people want to deal with.


Of course in both of those cases (auto and passive), you're actually halving resolution versus the panel's native. So unless 8K sets become a thing, that actually means our current 1080p3D is all we need anyway.

UltraHD BD does continue to support that, both for legacy content and for actual UHD content. So in theory we could see 3D with HDR, higher framerates, etc? Just not with higher resolution.

 

[Zophar]

100GB sounds a little low to be the ceiling for a 4k format. Run of the mill 1080p, 30fps movies routinely fill up 50GB discs. How will this format be able to support HFR *and* 4K simultaneously?

 

[Marty Chinn]

And yet with this spec, I bet Fellowship of the Ring will still be on two discs/sides. It bugs me when you have to break a movie into two parts like this.

 

[DieH@rd]

Whats the max storage capacity of this thing? Has to be pretty huge.

66 or 100gb discs, but let us not forget that 4K BDs will use H265. H265 can achieve same image quality as H264 by using 50% less bitrate.

 

[riotous]

You think this same mass market is going to upgrade their expensive HD sets and Bluray players and re-buy their movies that they just bought *again* for a difference in image quality that the average joe blow couldn't give a fuck about? My comment doesn't imply people flocking to a non-existant infrastructure to stream their 4k movies and content, but more a mass indifference to this new format and the new hardware required to enjoy it. Hell, there are still millions who haven't upgraded to regular HD yet.

The next 5 years is going to be a segmented clusterfuck as yet another new format rolls out adjacent to normal DVDs and standard Blurays, what is UHD-capable hardware and what isn't, all the while streaming services are upping their game The more convenient less expensive route will always win, 4k or not.

So don't buy it.

The market should be big enough to stay alive. These disks are more profitable than the chump change Netflix gives per stream. Even if they don't sell gangbusters it shouldn't "die."

 

[evilromero]

To be fair, a lot of people are fine with Netflix, etc versus BD.

So the question becomes will their and competitors' 4K + HDR streaming content be 'good enough' for most people?


The pool of people that can take advantage of it currently will be less though, that's true. But then again some people are fine streaming 720p or less. Will be very interesting to see how this pans out.





Now me personally, I care about audio/video quality. So for movies I'm really interested in ... I'll buy it on disc. What's unknown is how niche that sort of thing is moving forward.

I'm fine with streaming quality but I do buy BR from time-to-time of my absolute favorite movies, which is maybe three to four movies a year.

 

[Various Artists]

100GB sounds a little low to be the ceiling for a 4k format. Run of the mill 1080p, 30fps movies routinely fill up 50GB discs. How will this format be able to support HFR *and* 4K simultaneously?

It uses a new more efficient codec.

 

[captive]

100GB sounds a little low to be the ceiling for a 4k format. Run of the mill 1080p, 30fps movies routinely fill up 50GB discs. How will this format be able to support HFR *and* 4K simultaneously?

Different more efficient codec.

 

[Vashetti]

ha, good luck streaming this.

100GB sounds a little low to be the ceiling for a 4k format. Run of the mill 1080p, 30fps movies routinely fill up 50GB discs. How will this format be able to support HFR *and* 4K simultaneously?

HEVC

Netflix's 4K stuff uses this.

 

[bobawesome]

I'll sit this one out. I'm still in the process of buying expensive-ass blu rays.

I spent close to $300 recently for the Kara no Kyoukai films.

 

[captive]

You think this same mass market is going to upgrade their expensive HD sets and Bluray players and re-buy their movies that they just bought *again* for a difference in image quality that the average joe blow couldn't give a fuck about? My comment doesn't imply people flocking to a non-existant infrastructure to stream their 4k movies and content, but more a mass indifference to this new format and the new hardware required to enjoy it. Hell, there are still millions who haven't upgraded to regular HD yet.

The next 5 years is going to be a segmented clusterfuck as yet another new format rolls out adjacent to normal DVDs and standard Blurays, what is UHD-capable hardware and what isn't, all the while streaming services are upping their game The more convenient less expensive route will always win, 4k or not.

A) don't buy it B) convenience is relevant. 4k streams don't look that great right now, and if they up the bitrate so that they do, its going to take up more internet bandwidth. I'm not sure if you have noticed or not but Comcast et al are doing everything in their power to prevent you from being able to stream as much as you want, between throttling customers, slowing down providers connections, bandwidth limiting etc.

I have stated it before but I frequently have problems with Netflix. Just the other day I was watching an episode of Louie and the next episode didn't load, the whole system was fucked, I had to close the app and re-open only I couldn't log back in.

Also what's wrong with having options? The new players will play your old blu-rays and likely your old DVDs. So it wont be nearly as segmented as it was with HD DVD and Blu-rays. Eventually all the hardware will have all the latest stuff while being backward compatible.

 

[webkatt]

The last bluray I bought was Scott pilgrim

 

[Raistlin]

For everyone so happy about HFR, you have to understand how the BDA works. They basically mandate nothing from content providers. Hell, tons of stuff is even optional for BD player manufacturers in terms of decoding. It's been a long running complaint due to the confusion it creates.


Regardless, the UHD BD spec is nice in that they are supporting all the hoped for features, at least to some extent. But whether it gets used or not ... that's up to film makers.

P3 color space? That will get used because it's how movies are already shot. HDR? There seems to be a lot of buzz on that feature, and camera manufacturers are going whole hog in supporting it. And even with legacy content, while it may not have the sorts of dynamic range we're talking about here, most film and digital masters do have higher dynamic range than what current media and displays support. So we'll at least see an expanded dynamic range versus what we currently have, and moving forward they'll saturate more of it.

HFR though? At least right now there's only a handful of film makers pushing for it. Unless that changes, we're only going to see it in a few titles supporting it in the short to mid term. And worse, the bandwidth for this spec causes some concern. Can it really do 10-bit color, HDR, lossless object-based audio, and HFR without compromise to the image quality? We'll have to see test footage. But certainly if it forces compromises, I question if most people would prefer HFR versus the other improvements if that's what it comes down to. It seems at least a fair number of people don't even really like it. It's kind of the 3D of this generation.

 

[Melon Husk]

The Hobbit Trilogy 4k HFR in my veins!

It was mastered in 2K.

 

[Vashetti]

It was mastered in 2K.

I think this is going to disappoint a lot of people who want their favourite movies in 4K. Are the studios really going to go back and remaster all their old movies and re-render all the visual effects?

 

[gatti-man]

I'm in but I will probably wait a bit. I will need a new receiver too and I dread that upgrade. It's always a crap ton of work.

 

[jmdajr]

Odds of an new version of PS4 or Xbox One to play these?

 

[Lucumo]

I like "4K" more than "Ultra HD". Sounds too 90's.

Hm...yeah, I'll stay with "4K".

 

[Melon Husk]

I think this is going to disappoint a lot of people who want their favourite movies in 4K. Are the studios really going to go back and remaster all their old movies and re-render all the visual effects?

Smart studios paid for one 4K scan and transferred from that a blu-ray remaster. Edit: See Jurassic Park 3D Remaster for example.

Will they remaster Star Trek again in UHD?
Ben-Hur and Lawrence of Arabia will benefit immensely though.

I can pass the 28 Days Later 4K release.

Spoiler

It was shot in SD.

Odds of an new version of PS4 or Xbox One to play these?

Pretty close to zero.

 

[R10Neymarfan]

It was mastered in 2K.

I think this is going to disappoint a lot of people who want their favourite movies in 4K. Are the studios really going to go back and remaster all their old movies and re-render all the visual effects?

They'll just slap on the 2K 48fps 3D version with a wider color range and HDR. Call it a day, it upscales to 4K done

Pretty close to zero.

I think if AMD can enable the APU to hardware decode HEVC/H265 and Sony/Microsoft can firmware their drives to read these new discs at a slower speed it could be possible, unless the new disc require a different laser, then better hope those wholesale disc drives aren't too expensive to include in slimmer revisions.

 

[biggersmaller]

The Hobbit was the first and the last HFR movie I'll ever watch. The soap opera effect was just appalling. I hope 24fps version is mandatory with every 4k disc.

I wouldn't worry. Even if marketed, it will go away even quicker than home 3D due to a lack of HFR box office support and increased production costs.

 

[longdi]

I dont care about 4K BRD, but the new 4K picture quality requirements will (hopefully) force HDTV makers to step up their game. God riddance to 8-bit colors and edge-lit displays, i also hope large screen IPS dies along with it. Give us back super PVA panels with full array back lighting! And bonus, real 120+hz refresh rates!

 

[FrozenCell]

almost 4K

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I wouldn't worry. Even if marketed, it will go away even quicker than home 3D due to a lack of HFR box office support and increased production costs.

Yeah about that... maybe you should wait until Avatar 2 (which will have HFR) before making such statements. Getting really bored of people who are afraid of change and technological advancement. Omg 3D sucks!!1 Omg HFR sucks!!1 Ok.

 

[Mr. Wonderful]

ha, good luck streaming this.

Comcast (and therefore likely others) plans to roll out DOCSIS 3.1 and, in limited areas, fiber to the home later this year, which will alleviate a lot of the network bottlenecks.

The real thing that's going to prevent this from taking off is the lack of HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 television sets.

 

[this_guy]

I bought an HD-DVD player when prices became reasonable (<$200), then a Blu-ray player after HD-DVD died. I haven't bought any Blu-ray movies in years, and now do most of my movie purchases through Vudu. Sure Blu-ray quality would be better than HDX on Vudu, but Vudu is good enough.

I think most people feel the same, and I have no interest in the next Blu-ray format.

 

[biggersmaller]

Yeah about that... maybe you should wait until Avatar 2 (which will have HFR) before making such statements. Getting really bored of people who are afraid of change and technological advancement. Omg 3D sucks!!1 Omg HFR sucks!!1 Ok.

The vast majority of moviegoers accustomed to and preferring 2D 24 FPS films are not "afraid of technological advancement." What a stupid response to my post. Still, I would like to hear theorized (rationally, if possible) what Avatar 2 will do for home HFR that Avatar didn't do for home 3D.

 

[The Artisan]

damn. and I spent over $200 on the ultimate edition harry potter blu rays. fuck.

so now they gonna rerelease all them mothafuckers on 4K blu ray?

 

[captive]

Yeah about that... maybe you should wait until Avatar 2 (which will have HFR) before making such statements. Getting really bored of people who are afraid of change and technological advancement. Omg 3D sucks!!1 Omg HFR sucks!!1 Ok.

lol. Dude. This post is so funny. You say "wait for Avatar 2 which will have HFR" and then follow it up with OMG 3d sucks. I think you forget everyone viewed and said Avatar was the movie that will push 3d and make it popular. Yet, 3d is dead. Like it or not, its dead. And will remain dead until they can do 3d without forcing us to wear glasses.

 

[biggersmaller]

almost 4K

Yup. I'm really surprised they didn't go the full 4096 x 2160. Go big or go home.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Oh, no. Not again.

lol

Building a movie collection is basically the same as building a house of cards.

 

[Goliath]

I bought an HD-DVD player when prices became reasonable (<$200), then a Blu-ray player after HD-DVD died. I haven't bought any Blu-ray movies in years, and now do most of my movie purchases through Vudu. Sure Blu-ray quality would be better than HDX on Vudu, but Vudu is good enough.

I think most people feel the same, and I have no interest in the next Blu-ray format.

I don't know. Right now movies studios are ripping their content from well known streaming providers like Netflix to stream them on their own online stores. Pretty soon in order for people to see the same amount of content that they are used to they will have to have a subscription to HBO, Showtime, Fox, Sony, ABC, and Disney Apps, pretty much making their own cable package.

I think physical is here to stay and many people will not subscribe to an app just to see one movie of interest that might not be available yet. They will just spend 19 dollars and buy the Blu ray.

 

[captive]

lol

Building a movie collection is basically the same as building a house of cards.

Not exactly. The movies don't stop working because a new format came out. See more below.

I don't know. Right now movies studios are ripping their content from well known streaming providers like Netflix to stream them on their own online stores. Pretty soon in order for people to see the same amount of content that they are used to they will have to have a subscription to HBO, Showtime, Fox, Sony, ABC, and Disney Apps, pretty much making their own cable package.

I think physical is here to stay and many people will not subscribe to an app just to see one movie of interest that might not be available yet. They will just spend 19 dollars and buy the Blu ray.

Exactly, which is why I buy movies and TV shows, rip them so I can have them anytime I want just about anywhere I want.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

Crap. I still haven't finished replacing my dvds with blu rays. Now I have to start replacing my blu rays?

I mean...this is the folly, isn't it? You guys should just get out while you're ahead.

 

[this_guy]

I don't know. Right now movies studios are ripping their content from well known streaming providers like Netflix to stream them on their own online stores. Pretty soon in order for people to see the same amount of content that they are used to they will have to have a subscription to HBO, Showtime, Fox, Sony, ABC, and Disney Apps, pretty much making their own cable package.

I think physical is here to stay and many people will not subscribe to an app just to see one movie of interest that might not be available yet. They will just spend 19 dollars and buy the Blu ray.

Vudu, and the Ultraviolet format, is different from Netflix and the other subscription services. With Ultraviolet movies, any movie I own I can stream or download on any device (pc, smartphone, tablet), and the 1080p HDX quality is good enough. I find the convenience factor more important than a slight bump in image quality.

I think owning physical disks is a shrinking market based on my own anecdotal usage. Of course this is all speculation on my part.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

Crap. I still haven't finished replacing my dvds with blu rays. Now I have to start replacing my blu rays?

my man, same here. though to be fair by the time i upgrade my UN55ES7500 to a 4K theyll be cheap

 

[Easy_D]

Oh, no. Not again.

Are you a bowl of petunias?

 

[Gemüsepizza]

The vast majority of moviegoers accustomed to and preferring 2D 24 FPS films are not "afraid of technological advancement." What a stupid response to my post. Still, I would like to hear theorized (rationally, if possible) what Avatar 2 will do for home HFR that Avatar didn't do for home 3D.

You make it sound like most people prefer 2D and 24 fps. They aren't. And please spare me this crap about "home 3D". It didn't go anywhere. Almost every major movie gets released as 3D Blu-ray. And it gets harder and harder to buy a modern TV without 3D. Sorry mate, but 3D is the future. Avatar 2 will further cement this by demonstrating the potential of 3D HFR.

lol. Dude. This post is so funny. You say "wait for Avatar 2 which will have HFR" and then follow it up with OMG 3d sucks. I think you forget everyone viewed and said Avatar was the movie that will push 3d and make it popular. Yet, 3d is dead. Like it or not, its dead. And will remain dead until they can do 3d without forcing us to wear glasses.

Do you know what "sarcasm" is? Also, you should tell those movie companies and hardware manufacturers that 3D is dead. Because they continue to release 3D movies en masse, and most modern TVs have 3D. Nobody gives a fuck about those glasses.

 

[Extra Sauce]

Not exactly. The movies don't stop working because a new format came out. See more below.

I know this is my own problem, but I have a hard time watching something if I know there exists another version out there with superior video quality.

 

[Dead]

Upscaling for Blu-rays is good enough on really good 4K TVs (IE not cheap shit vizio and low end samsungs) that you should never feel like youll have to rebuy your collection.

But stuff like Lawrence of Arabia? Yeah that is something that would be rebuying. But 90% of movies that only exist in a 2K master, there would be no reason to upgrade, and studios would be foolish to bank on people doing that. Focus on classic 70mm films, ensure future releases are filmed and mastered in 4K and go from there.

 

[partime]

Bought a new TV for PS3,
Bought a new TV for PS4,
... will wait for PS5

 

[The Artisan]

Bought a new TV for PS3,
Bought a new TV for PS4,
... will wait for PS5

one day.

I hope this model is still around by the time I can afford it.

 

[Vashetti]

damn. and I spent over $200 on the ultimate edition harry potter blu rays. fuck.

so now they gonna rerelease all them mothafuckers on 4K blu ray?

Not anytime soon. The effects were mastered at 2K.

Going back and re-rendering all those special effects at 4K is going to take time and money, time and money I think most studios will be dubious about spending for the return on 4K Blu-ray sales.

 

[The Artisan]

Not anytime soon. The effects were mastered at 2K.

Going back and re-rendering all those special effects at 4K is going to take time and money, time and money I think most studios will be dubious about spending for the return on 4K Blu-ray sales.

that sounds perfectly fine to me man. i'd much rather keep these ultimate edition blu rays and watch them upscaled on 4K rather than re fucking buying them again in 4K blu ray format.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

there's lots of receivers/processors that have atmos already, so they should be around for a while.

Dolby's website recommends 11.1 or 11.2 for atmos. It gets complicated because there's some speakers that are "atmos" enabled where they bounce the sound off the ceiling. Vs. having dedicated speakers in the ceiling.

Interesting. Ty