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Ultra Street Fighter IV |OT| What is old is new once again

G

GamerKingFaiz

Member
Hellshingu said:
Honestly practice is the best thing you can do. A game that has been out as long as SF4 has lots of people have years of experience with it which makes people just starting out even that much farther behind. Learning the basics for the game mechanics will be the most helpful. Thankfully these days with the recent resurgence of fighting games there's tons of information on youtube and websites like shoryuken and dustloop (for Guilty Gear, Blazblue etc.)

A mistake lots of beginners make in any fighting game is they all want to do the cool looking flashy combos, which are usually execution heavy and take time to get down properly, without learning how to actually play the game. What is your experience with fighting games in general? A lot of fundamentals carry over to various fighting games and to me are the most important thing you can learn to get better overall.
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Besides playing some SF4 casually with friends before, this is my first time trying to play a fighting game more competitively.

DunpealD said:
It would be helpful if you could illustrate your understanding of the game. Like a replay of one of your matches. Or show someone a replay. There's also a gaf beginners steamgroup for fighting games called "Scrubgaf" if you're interested.
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Yeah sure is there a way to extract replays from the game? If not, I can just record some of my online gameplay and post it here.



DunpealD said:
Also the punish combo(f.HP into HP DP) in your linked video is sub-optimal. Just as an example. In theory a close standing HP into SRK is a better option it's easier to do and does more stun at the same amount of damage, but gains a little less super gauge.

If you want more positional advantage you can go for HP cancel into Hurricane Kick to push the opponent into the corner. There are more complex and more difficult versions of those, but they are rather difficult to execute due to the strict timing.
Click to expand...

Alright, another thing I don't quite understand. What is a "cancel"? How does it relate to an "FADC"?
 
D

DunpealD

Member
GamerKingFaiz said:
Yeah sure is there a way to extract replays from the game? If not, I can just record some of my online gameplay and post it here.
Click to expand...

I don't think there's a way to extract it except using some third party software. Another option would be using the replay channel to watch it in game with somebody else.

GamerKingFaiz said:
Alright, another thing I don't quite understand. What is a "cancel"? How does it relate to an "FADC"?
Click to expand...

A cancel means cancelling an animation of an attack, i.e. the animation of the c.mk is cut short by cancelling into Hadoken. In order to do this specific sequence you need to input the hadoken in relative quick succession after the c.mk AND the c.mk has to touch the opponent which is called cancellable on hit or block. Not all moves have that specific ability so usually it's either trying it out yourself or read it up on something like the SRK wiki(in this link AEv2012 Ryu). Cancels are not fighting games exclusive, so the knowledge should benefit you even in other action games(Darksiders, Vanquish, God of War, DMC, Dynasty Warriors 7).
Here's a link to Akumas far standing HP AEv2012 change to Ultra(timestamp 1:01) to give you another example of how a special cancel looks and actual usability. Left is Ultra right is AEv2012.

About the FADC:
FADC means Force Attack Dash Cancel. So you'll notice there is a "cancel" in the name of it. FA is the charging attack, while you are charging you can input dash which cuts the FA and go straight into dash, which is called a dash cancel. Thus the name Force Attack Dash Cancel aka FADC.

Cancels in SF4 are pretty much separated into 3 tiers. Chains(ignore this one for now), Specials and Super, with the latter being in the highest tier. In the example of c.mk into Hadoken it's a special cancel since you are canceling the normal with a special move. Ryus Hadoken or DP can be super canceled into your Super combo(aka full super gauge attack), so basically you can do this sequence with a full bar: c.mk into Hadoken into Super Combo. So the relation of FADC is that the FA is at the tier of a super cancel that's why you can cancel the DP into FADC.

Here's the crux why FADCs are so important for Ultra combos. Ultras can not be canceled into so people have to get creative and have to put the opponent into a state where one can combo the ultra into. The most famous example would be Ryus DP FADC Ultra 1. The science behind it is the opponent flies long enough in the air to connect with the Ultra 1 by FADCing the DP(Timestamp is 5:15).

Of course there are also other uses for FADCs like making attacks like Ryus DP/Rufus's EX messiah kick safe or using it for combo extensions.
 
E

Ermac

Proudly debt free. If you need a couple bucks, just ask.
Do costume mods for AE work with Ultra? Can't seem to find any mods that are specific to Ultra.
 
K

kevo_huevo

Member
Been getting some good usage out of decapres u1 lately. Threw it out midscreen, opponent tries to get over it, hit em with the sting AA and they get knocked into it for full damage. Worked in 4 straight matches haha

Also if I've got a life lead, I'll just do something obviously punishable so that the u1 will hit them after they try to dp or something lol
I still like U2 better, but the chip is still a nice commodity
 
T

The Mango Sentinel

Member
kevo_huevo said:
Been getting some good usage out of decapres u1 lately. Threw it out midscreen, opponent tries to get over it, hit em with the sting AA and they get knocked into it for full damage. Worked in 4 straight matches haha

Also if I've got a life lead, I'll just do something obviously punishable so that the u1 will hit them after they try to dp or something lol
I still like U2 better, but the chip is still a nice commodity
Click to expand...
Use both dawg!
 
O

Onemic

Member
ggs Gambit. I was surprised I was able to hold my own in there.

I def need to take some tips from your Elena play. I also still need way more experience in the vega/chun/poison MU's. Vega just because I'm not used to him and Chun/Poison because I dont think those are in Elena's favour at all. Chun especially. I think the only reason I was able to block so many of her overheads was because the connection was pretty solid, usually I'm completely free to Chun's overhead special.
 
L

Lioncawk

Neo Member
Onemic said:
ggs Gambit. I was surprised I was able to hold my own in there.

I def need to take some tips from your Elena play. I also still need way more experience in the vega/chun/poison MU's. Vega just because I'm not used to him and Chun/Poison because I dont think those are in Elena's favour at all. Chun especially. I think the only reason I was able to block so many of her overheads was because the connection was pretty solid, usually I'm completely free to Chun's overhead special.
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I was that other guy in the lobby. GGS man, that Elena is pretty sick. I think chun loses that match up. I picked Poison at the end of that set cause I feel better in that match up than my other characters. I know Elena can't slide thru her fireballs. The hazansho (sp) I use cause of 3s shenanagans. Just know you can focus/jab/shoryu it when you see it. It doesn't break armor or anything like that. Just have a mental note when you see that stupid flip to do it I tried doing it against to elena a lot thinking it does the same thing but it bops it free. GGS again man, and have fun in the jungle book.

Edit: also if you see a whiff dp from Poison, max damage combo that silly character.
 
G

Gambit61

Member
Onemic said:
ggs Gambit. I was surprised I was able to hold my own in there.

I def need to take some tips from your Elena play. I also still need way more experience in the vega/chun/poison MU's. Vega just because I'm not used to him and Chun/Poison because I dont think those are in Elena's favour at all. Chun especially. I think the only reason I was able to block so many of her overheads was because the connection was pretty solid, usually I'm completely free to Chun's overhead special.
Click to expand...

GGS. Your execution with Elena is really solid. Those EX MS and c.lk, c.lp links still give me trouble. As for Vega/Bison I finally see why ppl complain about Elena's hurtbox. Most of their pokes whiff on her crouching hurtbox. Also I agree that Chun is a tough match up for her. Her pokes are just too good and she gets an easy EX legs xx U2 from Elena's usual poking range. Her fireball > hazansho trap on wake up catches me a lot too. I swear I hold back everytime he does it yet it connects. lol
 
O

Onemic

Member
Gambit61 said:
GGS. Your execution with Elena is really solid. Those EX MS and c.lk, c.lp links still give me trouble. As for Vega/Bison I finally see why ppl complain about Elena's hurtbox. Most of their pokes whiff on her crouching hurtbox. Also I agree that Chun is a tough match up for her. Her pokes are just too good and she gets an easy EX legs xx U2 from Elena's usual poking range. Her fireball > hazansho trap on wake up catches me a lot too. I swear I hold back everytime he does it yet it connects. lol
Click to expand...

Thanks, getting the c.lp link after EX MS is tough, I actually find it more difficult than c.lk, c.lp, even though the latter is an unplinkable 1 framer. I actually didnt realize that doing one c.lp after EX MS allows Elena's EX SW to get in all the hits midscreen. Only problem is that if you miss the link you're completely screwed. I actually didn't capitalize on those RH whiffs enough lol. I used to always confirm EX MS into c.lp, c.mp, lk RH, EX SW midscreen, but realized that I dont get full hits on EX SW unless in the corner and by going for a SS combo instead it gives me more bars for using EX MS in neutral. Plus I like the mixup off SS on wakeup better than EX SW midscreen. You can do things like dash, hp mallet/dash f+mp/dash, dash, kara backthrow/dash, dash, low

One other bizarre thing thats been noted with Elena is that b+HK doesn't give you a CH bonus at all....It's like Capcom was asleep when making this character. b+HK would be so much better than s.HK to blow up crouch techs if it wasnt for this.
 
G

Gambit61

Member
Oh yeah, I should use c.lp, c.mp, SS after EX MS more often. I just keep going for max damage with c.lp, lk RH, EX SW out of habit most of the time. As for her b.HK there's been only one time I actually got anything off it, and its because I caught my friend at the very end of it with a counter hit. It should at least be comboable like Dudley's f.HK. I'm really hoping for Capcom to say something about all these weird Ultra issues (Elena jank, Hugo inputs and more) at Evo since I'd like to double dip on the Steam release.
 
H

hypernima

Banned
Onemic said:
ggs Gambit. I was surprised I was able to hold my own in there.

I def need to take some tips from your Elena play. I also still need way more experience in the vega/chun/poison MU's. Vega just because I'm not used to him and Chun/Poison because I dont think those are in Elena's favour at all. Chun especially. I think the only reason I was able to block so many of her overheads was because the connection was pretty solid, usually I'm completely free to Chun's overhead special.
Click to expand...

If you need Poison exp lmk, my Poison isn't that bad that you couldn't learn from her.
 
O

Onemic

Member
Gambit61 said:
Oh yeah, I should use c.lp, c.mp, SS after EX MS more often. I just keep going for max damage with c.lp, lk RH, EX SW out of habit most of the time. As for her b.HK there's been only one time I actually got anything off it, and its because I caught my friend at the very end of it with a counter hit. It should at least be comboable like Dudley's f.HK. I'm really hoping for Capcom to say something about all these weird Ultra issues (Elena jank, Hugo inputs and more) at Evo since I'd like to double dip on the Steam release.
Click to expand...

Confirming into EX MS from c.lp, c.lp, c.mp, you're sorta stuck with taking a gamble on c.lp to get full hits midscreen, but if you get an EX MS in neutral you could do this combo instead:

EX MS, c.lp, c.mp xx EX MS, c.lp, c.mp xx mk SS - 320dmg/460 stun

If you drop the link you'll know beforehand and can switch it up. If you get the link the dmg is consistent everywhere on screen and is consistent against all characters.(midscreen EX MS into lk RH combos tend to get less hits/whiff on characters midscreen with funky hitboxes, like Juri) It does more dmg and stun than just going straight into lk RH from c.lp and does only slightly less dmg(but more stun) than going into lk RH from c.lp, c.mp in the corner. Plus you get the better mixup from the SS knockdown and it build more meter, with slightly better corner carry

Only downside to the combo is that it's harder to execute since you gotta do a loop. I'm still working on it as I'm not consitent enough in my c.lp links off EX MS to make it a staple in my midscreen combos.

hypernima said:
If you need Poison exp lmk, my Poison isn't that bad that you couldn't learn from her.
Click to expand...

I'm down to play now if youre interested
 
H

hypernima

Banned
Onemic said:
Confirming into EX MS from c.lp, c.lp, c.mp, you're sorta stuck with taking a gamble on c.lp to get full hits midscreen, but if you get an EX MS in neutral you could do this combo instead:

EX MS, c.lp, c.mp xx EX MS, c.lp, c.mp xx mk SS - 320dmg/460 stun

If you drop the link you'll know beforehand and can switch it up. If you get the link the dmg is consistent everywhere on screen and is consistent against all characters.(midscreen EX MS into lk RH combos tend to get less hits/whiff on characters midscreen with funky hitboxes, like Juri) It does more dmg and stun than just going straight into lk RH from c.lp and does only slightly less dmg(but more stun) than going into lk RH from c.lp, c.mp in the corner. Plus you get the better mixup from the SS knockdown and it build more meter

Only downside to the combo is that it's harder to execute since you gotta do a loop. I'm still working on it as I'm not consitent enough in my c.lp links off EX MS to make it a staple in my midscreen combos.



I'm down to play now if youre interested
Click to expand...

im on now.
 
K

Karsticles

Member
Is there a picture out there of Blanka's hitbox during his coward crouch? I used it against Yun AI and his moves all whiff, even the hip check.
 
M

mbpm1

Member
Karsticles said:
Is there a picture out there of Blanka's hitbox during his coward crouch? I used it against Yun AI and his moves all whiff, even the hip check.
Click to expand...

Couldn't find any, but Hakan's similar looking crouch move is basically a flat red line on the floor lol
 
G

Gambit61

Member
Onemic said:
Confirming into EX MS from c.lp, c.lp, c.mp, you're sorta stuck with taking a gamble on c.lp to get full hits midscreen, but if you get an EX MS in neutral you could do this combo instead:

EX MS, c.lp, c.mp xx EX MS, c.lp, c.mp xx mk SS - 320dmg/460 stun

If you drop the link you'll know beforehand and can switch it up. If you get the link the dmg is consistent everywhere on screen and is consistent against all characters.(midscreen EX MS into lk RH combos tend to get less hits/whiff on characters midscreen with funky hitboxes, like Juri) It does more dmg and stun than just going straight into lk RH from c.lp and does only slightly less dmg(but more stun) than going into lk RH from c.lp, c.mp in the corner. Plus you get the better mixup from the SS knockdown and it build more meter, with slightly better corner carry

Only downside to the combo is that it's harder to execute since you gotta do a loop. I'm still working on it as I'm not consitent enough in my c.lp links off EX MS to make it a staple in my midscreen combos.



I'm down to play now if youre interested
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips! I'll try them out the next time I play.
 
T

The Mango Sentinel

Member
kevo_huevo said:
But dat damage doe.
I've won my share of matches simply because I've gotten the full chip damage of u1, or the last hit of u2 gets the kill. As I get more experience, I'm starting to pick ultras based on matchups now.
Click to expand...
Yeah I generally pick my ultras based on matchups but some characters benefit too much from having both.

I definitely know what you mean though. There's been a bunch of times already that I wish I would've picked a specific ultra instead of UW. But there's also been a bunch of times where I wish I would've had both.

But yeah it usually depends on what character I'm using and what matchup I'm playing. With Decapre, I choose UW more often than not. They both do shit damage regardless. I want them for utility
 
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