UMVC3: Phoenix Wright and Nova Revealed!

enzo_gt said:
Let's face it really, Hsien-Ko was a fucking horrible choice for the cast from the start. From the reveal to this day I wonder... why Lei Lei? Even if you, by obligation, had to choose a 3rd Darkstalker, Lei Lei is a terrible fit for MvC3's battle system. No amount of balancing could fix that incompatibility.

I absolutely agree with this statement.

Hsien-Ko just doesn't work in properly in Marvel. Morrigan and Felicia do because toning them down doesn't take their general abilities, but Hsien-Ko is just ridiculous even in Darkstalkers compairson. There were only 2 things how she'd end up with - being stupidly OP or stupidly bad. We ended up with bad.
I'd say a character like Anakaris would've worked much better while giving the game something entirely unique as well - the whole "split into 2" mechanic actually would've been really cool for dirty crossups and such.
 
enzo_gt said:
Who are Reverge labs?
The folks that are making Skullgirls. This is last week's footage that is up for download.
GatorBait said:
I don't know...maybe I'm in the minority here (I don't think I am?), but I thought MvC3 was a pretty well-balanced game considering all the variables that have to go into balancing a 36 character MvC roster. A very large portion of the cast had proved to be tournament viable. Wolverine and Phoenix were the only two S-tier characters that really demanded heavy nerfs (and part of their overpowered nature was a direct result of how effectively they could leverage X-factor - which is another of the many balance variables the team had to take into consideration).

All things considered, they did a pretty damn good job on their first shot, especially with the rushed release date the team had to accommodate. Simply nerfing Wolverine and Phoenix, ironing out X-factor bonuses, and buffing zoning would have really rounded out the balance of the roster, but we are getting that and some other good-sounding balance tweaks in Ultimate. There are indeed some questionable balance changes (Doom, Zero, Wesker, for example), but I don't foresee any of the cast jumping up to Wolverine/Phoenix level S-tier now.

I could realistically see UMvC3 as having ~30 tournament viable characters, with the remainder being characters who are still highly usable at all skill levels below tournament-level, and a small handful of ass-tier characters (who will probably still be usable at mid-to-low level play). That's pretty damn good, in my book. There probably won't be many, if any, characters that are useless at all levels of play like there was in MvC2.
I've gone so far as to say that there would 35 viable characters at minimum for UMvC3. At least twenty(Shuma is the only questionable one) of the Marvel characters are perfectly viable and a good fifteen or so(no more than that for Capcom) are perfectly viable for tournaments.

The S tier in MvC3 did some serious damage though. MODOK, Trish, Ammy and Viper really started to open up after EVO because people were caught in the mad rush for the cheapest possible tools that they could abuse and it definitely hurt the game in the eyes of most people. There was a definite case of stagnation going on because of the stupid tools that the top five had in the game.
enzo_gt said:
Let's face it really, Hsien-Ko was a fucking horrible choice for the cast from the start. From the reveal to this day I wonder... why Lei Lei? Even if you, by obligation, had to choose a 3rd Darkstalker, Lei Lei is a terrible fit for MvC3's battle system. No amount of balancing could fix that incompatibility.
She would've been one of the top five best keepaway characters in the game even with her terrible item throws lol. What are you going to do to a fast Hsien-Ko when she turns gold, pounds your ass and then jumps into the air for cancellable pendulum swings at super jump height?LOL
 
Becquerel said:
I absolutely agree with this statement.

Hsien-Ko just doesn't work in Marvel. Morrigan and Felicia do because toning them down doesn't take their general abilities, but Hsien-Ko is just ridiculous even in Darkstalkers compairson. I'd say a character like Anakaris would've worked much better while giving the game something entirely unique as well - the whole "split into 2" mechanic actually would've been really cool for dirty crossups and such.

I agreed too. If I had chance with UMVC3, I would remove her for other darkstalker character.

Donovan or Jon Taliban.
 
enzo_gt said:
Let's face it really, Hsien-Ko was a fucking horrible choice for the cast from the start. From the reveal to this day I wonder... why Lei Lei? Even if you, by obligation, had to choose a 3rd Darkstalker, Lei Lei is a terrible fit for MvC3's battle system. No amount of balancing could fix that incompatibility.


i still feel someone was caught up in Yipes "this bitch is blue like cotton candy" line and chose her :p
 
It would have been awesome if we got Donovan or Jedah, maybe we will in Marvel 3's third iteration.

I've been reading up on Umar(Dormammu's sister) and now I totally want her in this game or at the very least an alt for dorm lol.
umarbybara5.jpg
 
enzo_gt said:
This is a good analysis, but noooooooo waaaaaaaaay is it looking likely UMvC3 will be broken as shit in the way MvC3 was. It's true though, MvC3 would've fizzled out in current Phoenix metagame. Looking quite less likely IMO with them attacking the problems dead on. Any side affects of the countermeasures may be a problem though (for instance, if meter stealing/building moves are abused in the new environment through glitches).
The system itself looks like it is much more well guarded against exploitation than the previous one, but the characters are my main concern. Doom, Wesker and Zero scare me the most. Only one of them needed buffs and all of them got stuff that they didn't really need. We'll see if the changes can keep them from going out of control.

I think Phoenix has been put on a leash though.
Becquerel said:
I absolutely agree with this statement.

Hsien-Ko just doesn't work in properly in Marvel. Morrigan and Felicia do because toning them down doesn't take their general abilities, but Hsien-Ko is just ridiculous even in Darkstalkers compairson. There were only 2 things how she'd end up with - being stupidly OP or stupidly bad. We ended up with bad.
I'd say a character like Anakaris would've worked much better while giving the game something entirely unique as well - the whole "split into 2" mechanic actually would've been really cool for dirty crossups and such.
Donovan would be so good in this game that it would be ridiculous lol. Most of his attacks have him lunging his sword at you with his psychic force which makes for retarded hitboxes. His elemental attacks and summons also give him godlike range. Definitely an MvC3 friendly character. Him and Lord Raptor would run the joint after a month in UMvC3.
devastatorprime said:
It would have been awesome if we got Donovan or Jedah, maybe we will in Marvel 3's third iteration.

I've been reading up on Umar(Dormammu's sister) and now I totally want her in this game or at the very least an alt for dorm lol.
Doesn't Dormammu have serious family issues? She looks like she would be a handful lol.
 
Umar really isn't all that different from Dormammu, to be honest. I actually think that Clea (Dormammu's niece, Umar's daughter and Dr. Strange's ex-wife) would add quite a lot more cause she could use both worlds' stuff. :P


SolarPowered said:
Doesn't Dormammu have serious family issues? She looks like she would be a handful lol.

Yes. Essentially Dormington and Umar are fighting each other for the throne of the Dark Dimension pretty much constantly. IIRC currently, Clea has overthrown BOTH of them and is the queen of the DD.
 
Becquerel said:
I absolutely agree with this statement.

Hsien-Ko just doesn't work in properly in Marvel. Morrigan and Felicia do because toning them down doesn't take their general abilities, but Hsien-Ko is just ridiculous even in Darkstalkers compairson. There were only 2 things how she'd end up with - being stupidly OP or stupidly bad. We ended up with bad.
I'd say a character like Anakaris would've worked much better while giving the game something entirely unique as well - the whole "split into 2" mechanic actually would've been really cool for dirty crossups and such.

So we excuse Capcom for being unable to balance her? Her whole MvC3 incarnation seems poorly thought out. Just have two OTG ground hypers alone seems poorly thought out. They both do the same thing.
 
I don't have any problem with Hsien-Ko, and I think the concept of her character is actually pretty cool if they had done her more justice in MvC3. The thing that strikes me as odd though is she is a cult character from a cult game. After Morrigan and Felicia, I would've thought they would have gone in a different direction for the third Darkstalkers character.

Pyron would've been ridiculous if they could have pulled him off. Donovan could've been pretty cool, too.

SolarPowered said:
The system itself looks like it is much more well guarded against exploitation than the previous one, but the characters are my main concern. Doom, Wesker and Zero scare me the most. Only one of them needed buffs and all of them got stuff that they didn't really need. We'll see if the changes can keep them from going out of control.
Yep, I feel the same way. Those three were already really good in MvC3, and now they are easily going to be (or stay, depending on your MvC3 tier rankings) top tier. I don't think that is inherently a bad thing though because I don't envision any of those three will be on the same brain-dead, S-tier level that Wolverine and Phoenix were. They'll be damn good characters, but I think there are going to be enough other character grouped in their same tier that nobody will feel forced to pick any of those three to have a legitimate shot to win.
 
HK-47 said:
So we excuse Capcom for being unable to balance her? Her whole MvC3 incarnation seems poorly thought out. Just have two OTG ground hypers alone seems poorly thought out. They both do the same thing.
She had both those supers in darkstalkers, why would she not have them in MVC3.
 
enzo_gt said:
Let's face it really, Hsien-Ko was a fucking horrible choice for the cast from the start. From the reveal to this day I wonder... why Lei Lei? Even if you, by obligation, had to choose a 3rd Darkstalker, Lei Lei is a terrible fit for MvC3's battle system. No amount of balancing could fix that incompatibility.

Wow, Marvel 3's Lei Lei is so bad, we're retrospectively calling her trash when she was fucking godlike in Vampire Saviour... :(

No seriously, wat? I understand and agree with the sentiment that Capcom might as well not have put her in as the 3rd DS rep given how she turned out, but this statement is so wrong, I need to find footage to show just how much it really is. :lol

VS (087) - Hidacchi (Hsien-Ko) vs. BUY (Sasquatch)
VS (088) - Hidacchi (Hsien-Ko) vs. ROW (Jedah)

So in conclusion, fuck Capcom. :lol

Real talk though, I've been playing a lot of Darkstalkers 3/Vampire Saviour lately and after playing it, I realize two things. The "Darkstalkers' Effect" I joked about ages ago in the Community OT saying that DS characters cannot 100% crossover to other fighters because they'd rape everything is real, and this series has so fucking many awesome characters.

Edit: Solar mentioned Lord Raptor and OH GOD DO WANT. If only because I want to yell "BANGED ON" or make Shut Up & Jam references when you land a Level 3 "Hell Chaos Dunk". :lol

#Donovan/B.B. Hood/Q-Bee/Pyron/Jedah for Pringles edition. :lol
 
AzureJericho said:
Wow, Marvel 3's Lei Lei is so bad, we're retrospectively calling her trash when she was fucking godlike in Vampire Saviour... :(

No. He said Hsien Ko is a horrible choice for MvC, not that she's bad in Darkstalkers. And I agree with him there.

#Donovan/B.B. Hood/Q-Bee/Pyron/Jedah for Pringles edition. :lol

No Anakaris love? D:
 
Becquerel said:
No. He said Hsien Ko is a horrible choice for MvC, not that she's bad in Darkstalkers. And I agree with him there.



No Anakaris love? D:

Replace Anakaris grappler concept with Sandman. He can grab characters from the ground with sand hands.

Edited: Sorry about double post. I didn't meant to clicked enter.
 
I'm not saying Hsien-Ko is a terrible character guys, what I'm saying is that she is not well tailored to be in a Vs. game. She's either underpowered, or ridiculously overpowered if you just jack up the priority on everything.

Poor choice to be included in MvC3.

Also, fuck you Beef. Anakaris is the shit. God tier character design.
 
I'd rather have Anakaris but that's personal bias, because I can't fucking stand Sandman. In general I don't like most of the "grunt" type of villains. Not liking Marko especially cause he can't make up his fucking mind.
 
Becquerel said:
I'd rather have Anakaris but that's personal bias, because I can't fucking stand Sandman. In general I don't like most of the "grunt" type of villains. Not liking Marko especially cause he can't make up his fucking mind.

I am not fan of him in the comic but I am fan of his potential moveset in Marvel scene.
 
enzo_gt said:
Also, fuck you Beef. Anakaris is the shit. God tier character design.
Mummies are stupid and always have been stupid. Especially when they tried to make them cool with "MUMMIES ALIVE," one of the worst cartoons in existence.
 
Hsienko should of been perfect for marvel, capcom just didn't leave her the same which was the big issue with why she sucks so much ass. If you Directly put her darkstalker version of her in this game she would be A tier at least.

Jedah and Pyron both fit as well.
 
IntelliHeath said:
I am not fan of him in the comic but I am fan of his potential moveset in Marvel scene.

Eh, I think you could give a similar moveset to a symbiote or a telekinetic/force character like Invisible Woman (just the grabbing would be force hands, obviously), and it would be much better fan service than Sandman, who's a B-rater in terms of Spider-Man villains.


Professor Beef said:
Mummies are stupid and always have been stupid. Especially when they tried to make them cool with "MUMMIES ALIVE," one of the worst cartoons in existence.


I agree with you that mummies usually are terrible, but Anakaris was really fun in Darkstalkers. Also, I dig Arabic-styled songs, so Anakaris' theme would've been an acoustic orgasm for me.
 
The thing is Lei-lei should have been good. I still have no idea why they screwed up her pendulum so badly. I was always though she was one of the few Darkstalkers who could make a good transition to a Versus game. Moreso than Bulleta/morrigan/felicia/anakaris anyway. Of couse in a perfect world we would have gotten Donovan or Phobos.
 
kunonabi said:
The thing is Lei-lei should have been good. I still have no idea why they screwed up her pendulum so badly. I was always though she was one of the few Darkstalkers who could make a good transition to a Versus game. Moreso than Bulleta/morrigan/felicia/anakaris anyway. Of couse in a perfect world we would have gotten Donovan or Phobos.
We have Phobos, he just got a fresh coat of paint and changed his name.
 
Professor Beef said:
Mummies are stupid and always have been stupid. Especially when they tried to make them cool with "MUMMIES ALIVE," one of the worst cartoons in existence.
What is this? Dissing Mummies alive too? I can't be a part of this.

GET.
OUT.


GET OUT RIGHT NOW.
 
Becquerel said:
Eh, I think you could give a similar moveset to a symbiote or a telekinetic/force character like Invisible Woman (just the grabbing would be force hands, obviously), and it would be much better fan service than Sandman, who's a B-rater in terms of Spider-Man villains.





I agree with you that mummies usually are terrible, but Anakaris was really fun in Darkstalkers. Also, I dig Arabic-styled songs, so Anakaris' theme would've been an acoustic orgasm for me.

They are not going to add Invisible woman. There is a recently interview that they brought up about invisible woman. They basically said no.

I meant I can't think of anyone that could play similar to Sandman. I can think of Dust but I am not sure if she share same power or not.

He would have those attacks

F+H = sand hammer (It could become qcb + atk to cause otg or something)
B+H = sand spike ball

srk + atk = sand hand grab
qcf + atk = three diferent kind of sand beams just like bullet, block and spray

level 1 = Sand Tornado
level 1 = spike from the ground (otg hyper. Great for DHC)
level 3 = Grappler Hyper = grab the opponent with giant sand hand. A huge sand face stared it and processed to crush the opponent with two sand hands and threw it into ground

Just barely rough draft

Also I think Carnage would play different than Sandman if you are going to suggest him. I already have moveset for him ready.
 
Nils said:
Eh, they removed the "He loves you" part from Skrull's Inferno apparently and replaced it with a grunt. It was technically "incorrect" because it refers to something the Skrull sect he opposed only said, but I still wish they'd kept it.

They should have kept his original "There is far too much trash in the universe." It sounded more sinister.
 
A shame Jedah is forever banned from this series unless it goes M rated. Blood and gore are too integral to his presentation.
 
QisTopTier said:
She had both those supers in darkstalkers, why would she not have them in MVC3.

Because its redundant and doesnt help her? Maybe make one have a different effect int he air.
 
GatorBait said:
I don't have any problem with Hsien-Ko, and I think the concept of her character is actually pretty cool if they had done her more justice in MvC3. The thing that strikes me as odd though is she is a cult character from a cult game. After Morrigan and Felicia, I would've thought they would have gone in a different direction for the third Darkstalkers character.

Pyron would've been ridiculous if they could have pulled him off. Donovan could've been pretty cool, too.


Yep, I feel the same way. Those three were already really good in MvC3, and now they are easily going to be (or stay, depending on your MvC3 tier rankings) top tier. I don't think that is inherently a bad thing though because I don't envision any of those three will be on the same brain-dead, S-tier level that Wolverine and Phoenix were. They'll be damn good characters, but I think there are going to be enough other character grouped in their same tier that nobody will feel forced to pick any of those three to have a legitimate shot to win.

Apparently Nitsuma likes her.
 
AzureJericho said:
I'm probably not contributing much to this thread at this point, but wow. High level Darkstalkers 3 play is serious fucking shit.

/just killing time until reveals/no reveals
The bit between 55secs and 1:10min was some DBZ shit. I've been on GGPO for a bit, but I haven't seen anything like that.

Jesus
enzo_gt said:
I'm not saying Hsien-Ko is a terrible character guys, what I'm saying is that she is not well tailored to be in a Vs. game. She's either underpowered, or ridiculously overpowered if you just jack up the priority on everything.

Poor choice to be included in MvC3.

Also, fuck you Beef. Anakaris is the shit. God tier character design.
That avatar comes with great responsibilities. Use it wisely my young padawan.
HK-47 said:
Because its redundant and doesnt help her? Maybe make one have a different effect int he air.
Should've been buffed into a true anti air super.
 
enzo_gt said:
What is this? Dissing Mummies alive too? I can't be a part of this.

GET.
OUT.


GET OUT RIGHT NOW.
Lucky Number Seven Force said:
http://i.imgur.com/Uv4HY.gif[/IM][/QUOTE]
COME THE FUCK AT ME BROS

OH WAIT, YOU CAN'T BECAUSE YOUR STUPID MUMMY CAR BROKE DOWN WHEN YOU GOT CANCELLED

[img]http://i.minus.com/ipJEMYwjRsZw5.gif
 
IntelliHeath said:
I predicted that people will be so bitter in 7 minutes. >:P

I'm not even sure if we're gonna get videos at exactly 1 PM Japan time. As mentioned, currently only Japan is up, and Europe'll take at least 3ish more hours (it's 5 AM here in central europe). So...
 
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