QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Is that the guy from Hitman at the end?~Devil Trigger~ said:
UMVC3: Phoenix Wright and Nova Revealed!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
Red Arremer
Member
QisTopTier said:
You mean the bald guy? That's Wong, Strange's student and servant.
Karsticles
Member
I wouldn't say it "should" be more useful, just that I would like it if it were. Dormammu is all about considerations and long-term planning, so it demeans the character when one of the long-term goals one could shoot for is completely off the table due to being worthless. However, things are definitely much better now. In Vanilla, 3D0C was pretty much what everyone went for. Now, there is good reason to go for 1D2C and 2D1C, because they have value beyond chipping out heavies and fancy combos.
Have I ever linked this to you?:
http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-umvc3-dormammu-wishlist-thread.143473/
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Dahbomb said:
I will regret to ask it again but I don't see anyone answer my question.
What is Universal hit confirm? (and what is input for Dorm's UHC.)
SephirothRK
Member
IntelliHeath said:
it's c.lp > c.hp, it works on everyone. I guess hit confirm to special attack.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
GatorBait said:
A lot of small or crouching characters wouldn't get hit by cr.M after confirming a cr.L.
shaowebb
Member
CPS2 said:
We'll know after the RR and FW reveals for certain who the top 3 are from my survey. I'd post my opinion, but I've taken around 20 peoples surveys on this topic and I don't wanna be a tease on the issue.
I'll just wait for the reveals, let anyone change their list who wants to by sending them their original survey to edit, and then i'll compile everything and start showing it to everyone here.
Personally, I think the best so far is Vergil overall. However, I'll have to crunch the numbers to see how we all felt on the issue.
EDIT: Oh wait you mean in the entire game don't you.
...
Maybe Doom.
CPS2 said:
I would say out of the cast of MVC3
Doom - Looking amazing, 2 Great assist, combos for days and dat damage. Can do everything!
Wesker - Least affected S tier Character from Vanilla
Viper - Some slight nerfs on her but i think more people are gonna pick her up and learn the execution for her crazy shit.
Honorable mentions
Wolverine - Will no longer be Broken Tier, but is still looking insane. Speed is still high and damage is still insane
Dante - All Dante is gonna need is a little more optimizing based on changes and he'll be back to top 5. Hammer nerf hurt but that shit was broken.
Its way to early to say with the new 12 right now. Need to see them in the wild/lab some more.
Karsticles
Member
I really think we ought to wait before making these judgments, but there's no reason to discount characters like Dante, Zero, Viper, and Magneto, all top characters in Vanilla, from the top 3 list. There's no reason to even discount Wolverine - he's still a monster, just not brainless. Plus the Vanilla metagame was gravitating toward invincible assists - what does a game without invincible assists look like? We don't even know because it so strongly shapes our metathought.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
LOL some of you people are silly when it comes to rating how bad or good a character is based off of a few small things. Try to look at the big picture and what other characters can already do as well before you spaz out and start over rating stuff. Dorm is awesome now sure, but he's already awesome before. Due to the changes and new characters being introduced on the whole his placement on the tier list isn't really gonna change at all even though he is better now than before.
The thing that makes Doom so good is that he now has an abusable way to FINALLY land a hit before it was hard to open people up with him. His damage is still the same as before mostly though, he ALWAYS did insane amounts of damage.
Virgil looks good on the mind fuck factor he can do but honestly Strider looks a lot more solid overall. Summon swords is WAY WAY over rated
The thing that makes Doom so good is that he now has an abusable way to FINALLY land a hit before it was hard to open people up with him. His damage is still the same as before mostly though, he ALWAYS did insane amounts of damage.
Virgil looks good on the mind fuck factor he can do but honestly Strider looks a lot more solid overall. Summon swords is WAY WAY over rated
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
Smo21 said:
Hammer is still an above average move, even now.
It's like, plus 20 on block (hit low) - it still has some invincibility, and landing a hammer always leads to another OTG opportunity for Dante. Not too mention it acts as a safe double overhead. Well - that depends, I need to know exactly how many frames go by until the i-frames kick in.
But really - it's the kind of move that should be + on block, and have invincibility, because outside of that, the nature of the attack is kind of retarded. Not the fastest start-up, and next to no range. So it should have some interesting properties otherwise nobody would use it.
One thing I'd like to mention in regards to Dante for my experience with Ultimate is that get used to not using Beehive as often. There is more horizontal knock back to it, so enemies kind of fall out of it sometimes if you don't land the volcano quickly and closely enough to the downed opponent, and the damage nerfing to it is ridiculous. Get used to using Colder Shower more often, which didn't receive a noticeable (if any) change to damage. And then on the second use OTG cycle - do cold shower - stinger - bold cancel straight into reverb shock - fireworks - million dollars.
Using Jet Stream during the second cycle of Dante's OTG - the enemy recovers out of it by the second hit, really - making Jet Stream pretty fucking useless.
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
QisTopTier said:
dp
lowhighkang_LHK
Member
shaowebb said:
Did the people you survey had hands on with the game.
Sorry if I don't recognize your GAF screen - name to your competitive fight scene SN.
"God's Beard!"
Member
You guys are WAY too interested in tiers.
Yeah I just wanna say shaowebb I haven't forgotten your survey, I've still got a tab open with the post, just decided I'd do it after the last two characters are revealed.
Also, you sure doing it before the last two are revealed won't skew your data quite a bit? :lol
Also, you sure doing it before the last two are revealed won't skew your data quite a bit? :lol
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
enzo_gt said:
:lol what survey?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32121119&postcount=3890IntelliHeath said:
goldlion054
Member
Hazaro said:
Is there an archive?
Vipertheory/Strider/Doom have a good chance at being in the top 5. That actually sounds like a good team as well, but very low health. I'm still waiting for Viper's full potential to be revealed.
I guess Rocky and Frank for the tomorrow. Someone on Fanatiq's stream last night said Rocky is like Chris and Joe mixed. Hard to combo with but hell to get in on. I'm guessing strong zoning/keepaway. Sounds very promising if true.
-----
MOTHER OF GOD
I missed this http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/rr-fw-tidbits-by-yours-truly.148358/ looks like everyone has already hyped it up.
Million Dollar style hyper that is possible for mixups! DIG HOLE LVL3 LARGE EXPLOSION. FULL SCREEN??? Traps and GUNS!
HSIEN KO going crazy! What is this???
I wonder if his Million Dollar has two versions or there is another hyper that wasn't shown?!?! GROOT!! If he made an appearance than the other hyper or something like PW?
OMG I need these questions answer. this is to much.
I guess Rocky and Frank for the tomorrow. Someone on Fanatiq's stream last night said Rocky is like Chris and Joe mixed. Hard to combo with but hell to get in on. I'm guessing strong zoning/keepaway. Sounds very promising if true.
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MOTHER OF GOD
I missed this http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/rr-fw-tidbits-by-yours-truly.148358/ looks like everyone has already hyped it up.
Million Dollar style hyper that is possible for mixups! DIG HOLE LVL3 LARGE EXPLOSION. FULL SCREEN??? Traps and GUNS!
HSIEN KO going crazy! What is this???
I wonder if his Million Dollar has two versions or there is another hyper that wasn't shown?!?! GROOT!! If he made an appearance than the other hyper or something like PW?
OMG I need these questions answer. this is to much.
goldlion054
Member
Hazaro said:
Thanks!
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Ditto, waiting for this as well.enzo_gt said:
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Just let people know. IT IS A MORNING FOR JAPAN NOW!
JST: 8:05
Don't disappoint us, Japanese Halloween.
JST: 8:05
Don't disappoint us, Japanese Halloween.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
SolarPowered
Member
It begins...
...and ends here.
Keep in mind that A tier is going to be much stronger than before and S tier will be slightly less stupid than before.QisTopTier said:
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Everything in general is going to be closer together than before. Minus a few joke tiers.SolarPowered said:
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
What's a marlinpie?
Too hard to tell as this point. Most of us like to put out tier lists and stuff because it's fun not because it's some cold hard truth. Someone posts a list, we get some discussion going and people learn new stuff as a result. And theory fighting is fun especially when waiting for reveals.CPS2 said:
Top 3 even for vanilla MVC3 was debated outside of Phoenix. I have seen numerous combinations of top 3 for vanilla including Phoenix/Wolverine/Wesker, Phoenix/Wolverine/Dante, Phoenix/Wolverine/Magneto, Phoenix/Dante/Viper, Phoenix/Viper/Zero etc. just depends on what one person values as being good in a character. Results wise top 3 are Phoenix/She Hulk/Wesker in MVC3 this is pretty much a fact.
Also the changelog isn't compete, like it doesn't list everything as there are stuff in the characters that is new but isn't listed. It's a rough idea but as of this point people will just over value and under value certain things.
Viper is top or close to it no doubt about it. Execution barrier is going to keep her from being too prominent at high levels but she is too respected not to be given credit. Too many powerful tools which no other character has that goes in her favor. System wide changes are pretty much buffs to her, top 5 being nerfed is a buff to her and she is relatively the same character ported to UMVC3 with a new move and minus the infinite.
Zero is another contender. Too many match ups against other top characters in his favor, too much priority to respect and a lot of damage on this character. He is given tools now to up his solo and mix up game. He has received some nerfs and a few buffs, overall he is in the same category as before which is damn fucking good especially with the top 5 nerfed.
Dante will always be a contender for best character in the game. When you actually sit down and examine his "nerfs" they aren't even a big deal unless you considered touch of deaths a major part of his game plan, which under some circumstances he still might be able to do. Still can do more damage than many other cast members (700K by Max's video). Still has more tools than any other character. Devil Trigger is buffed and still gives him access to two of the best moves in the game. Hammer still remains one of the best moves in the game. Still has one of the best normals in the game. List goes on blah blah. Still a largely unexplored character like Viper.
These are my top 3 going into the UMVC3 from the old cast. There is a lot of firepower in the new cast that people are going to be cautious about. Vergil, Firebrand, Strider, Strange, Hawkeye... all very powerful characters (on paper) that demand respect and can shake up the tiers. But all of them have subtle weaknesses to them that may keep them just shy of the real top spot. I say same for Doom and Dorm, I mean they have their powerful stuff and certainly want to be in that S tier FUCKING BADLY but the current ones are just too good. Oh and Phoenix who is still a bitch. Wolverine too, people are underrating him yet again although he is easily the most nerfed of the top 5.
And of course... 2 more characters still to be revealed.
That's a buff. Considering so many characters above him got nerfed in the combo/damage department, he still remains one of the few character from MVC3 who used to do high damage and still does high damage. I don't think he's top 3 but he's eyeing that S tier damn hard.
I think it will happen. Out of everyone that plays Marvel, someone has to be able to handle Viper. One of the issues is that most Viper players think she is completely broken, some even ask for her to be nerfed out of theory alone. That kind of mindset won't open her up to be consistently amazing. Because it's like a joke or something.mr. puppy said:
Professor Beef
Banned
Boy I hear that enzo has got a STANKY Iron Man, amirite Solar?enzo_gt said:
"God's Beard!"
Member
The only real execution heavy thing about Viper are her seismo FADC blockstrings and the timing on a few of her ambiguous setups. It's all technique, and like anything else, if you practice enough it'll start to work. Look how far Marlin got with her, and the game's not even a year old. You don't even need all that stuff. Focus unblockables, retarded invincibility all over, soft knockdown on her hypers, EX Burn Kick combo correction, canceling everything, great air mobility with 8 way air dash and pentuple jumps.
I don't know what this question/sentence mean... is this question asking for a character who never lived up to their theory fighter level?
It's Dhalsim from MVC2. I don't PERSONALLY believe it to be 100% true but there are people who swear that Dhalsim has like full screen TODs & guard breaks, is untouchable if played correctly and has favorable match ups against the god tiers. I know that when the game was new Japanese players attempted to use Dhalsim technology to counter Cable players in the USA but that felt to the way side quick. The Japanese basically had their own tier list for MVC2 which had like Dhalsim and Anakarsis at top.
Ever since playing MVC2 I have always heard rumors about Dhalsim's legendary power and watched like youtube videos on him. I have never seen people win with him to the level that he is hyped to be.
God's Beard said:
Exactly. In your absence I've been arguing that the character's execution barrier isn't nearly as high as people think. It's the perception the character has that intimidates them. She's got a lot of tricky stuff that requires some finesse, like Seismo strings, Seismo FADC etc., but she's fundamentally raw, and doesn't even require the player to utilize most of that stuff to be competitive.
I haven't totally gone in on Viper yet, so I wouldn't pretend to be an expert, but based on the things Marlin does, I'd put and Iron Man and (maybe) Mags above her in terms of execution, at the very least.
Yes. Thanks for the Sim vid, I'll check it in a minute.