• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Uncharted 4: A Thief's End Multiplayer |OT| Swinging To Victory

I don't agree with this at all. It's super easy to get carried to wins in this game (and Master as a result) if you play with other teammates who are better than you and just stay near them and out of trouble. I would consider a solo Master player infinitely more skilled than a group Master player because you actually have to play well all the time. There's way more high-level individually-skilled players than there are high-level groups, most obviously because there's a larger data set (1 vs 5 at a time). As a result, yes, two high-level groups going at it will be way more competitive, but it doesn't happen as much. High-level groups frequently steamroll the competition.

Hypothetically, if there were no parties allowed and all the best players had to play solo, that would balance out the "headless chicken" bad players. From there, the best players would have to carry the entire team, which is a lot harder to do than being a part of a superteam and steamrolling 90% of the competition.

The reason why there are very few solo players at the upper ranks is due to the bandwagon effect/herd behavior, meaning that everyone just assumes "Ranked is harder because it counts, so we need to only play in parties". As a result, everyone is afraid to play solo, so they don't. This is why I want solo playlists. There's a larger group of us out there than you would think.

You have to have a pretty godlike team to get carried to wins at high levels of play in UC4.

Trust me, I have tried to get a large group of my friends up to master, and some of them make it too much of an uphill battle. When they're finishing matches at 0-8, it becomes a really hard slog to repair that. And despite their best efforts they haven't managed to 'get carried' to diamond or master by simply solo queuing, it doesn't work that way. Standing next to good players whilst being bad is simply not good enough, you get downed very easily and a 4 vs 5 is hard. I don't think you've played much at master or diamond have you? The majority of games that crop up tend to be full parties, and when we did get games of solo queuers filtering in one by one, they tended by be matches where our team were favoured to win.

I really disagree with you on the level of play, the reason there are less solo players at high levels is because it's much harder to play solo, the inconsistent communication and lack of team synergy has a huge impact on your teams performance at higher levels of play, so while there are plenty of solo queuing players, most of them are not making it to the upper ranks. That makes sense though, because as I say, solo queuing inherently lacks facets of the gameplay that enable parties to take the level of play to another level. Good communication and playstyle synergy is hard to achieve in solo queue yet it's a big part of the game.

I would agree if by "solo" you meant a FFA playlist, not TDM. Yes, FFA requires more skill than TDM (because you have no teammates to back you up) and a bit of luck (spawn-wise).

Then again, kill-oriented modes are terrible for competition (Ranked, tournaments etc.), not to mention horrible lag that causes undeserved deaths.

Command (without welfare BS) or Plunder would be a lot better for team-based competitive matches. Who cares about deaths, it's all about the objective.

Too bad ND panders to TDM-only players... because apparently "it's not fair to expect from TDM players to know how to play objective modes" according to certain ND devs (LOL). No wonder the "Competitive" scene is a joke in ND games. It's either TDM or 1v1
(baaags of skeeeeel)
.

I don't think FFA requires more skill. It requires different skills, with more emphasis on manual dexterity, than strategy and tactics, because you no longer need to concern yourself with the interplay of team mechanics. However at the same time, FFA also introduces more variables that are difficult to control. Two players attacking you at the same time, someone nabbing the kill you were about to land, players spawning all over you, other people dying in encounters where you weren't a participant.

I played a lot of FFA on UC2 and 3, Destiny etc. but those things make it less consistent than other modes. Like, if it's a 8 player mode, 2 good players, 6 bad, I often felt that the outcome between the two decent players was defined by how many of the bad players run into you. I remember experiencing frustrating losses when bad players essentially 'feed' another enemy, and that's just one of the variables that is essentially beyond your control.

I think a FFA mode would be good for this game though. The people that really want to be alone, can play in that playlist. It doesn't make sense to want to be considered 'good' at team death match, but not want to participate in the team orientation of that mode, but at the same time, ND should provide a mode that facilitates these players desires to play on a team of their own.

I don't actually know anyone who got to master by solo queuing but if they did, they most likely manually filtered away from parties quite effectively. Whether you're really good or not, it's very difficult to win consistently when your lumbered with bad players on a regular basis. I remember when we were playing we started recalling names of players where it was a guaranteed win for us if they were on the enemy team. Maybe if the same skill matchmaking were better, it would be easier, or maybe if the unfavoured team didn't lose as many points it would be easier, but as it stands its incredibly difficult to get to master in solo queue because it's so extremely luck based as to whether you get competent team mates, or not.
 
I don't think FFA requires more skill. It requires different skills, with more emphasis on manual dexterity, than strategy and tactics, because you no longer need to concern yourself with the interplay of team mechanics. However at the same time, FFA also introduces more variables that are difficult to control. Two players attacking you at the same time, someone nabbing the kill you were about to land, players spawning all over you, other people dying in encounters where you weren't a participant.

I played a lot of FFA on UC2 and 3, Destiny etc. but those things make it less consistent than other modes. Like, if it's a 8 player mode, 2 good players, 6 bad, I often felt that the outcome between the two decent players was defined by how many of the bad players run into you. I remember experiencing frustrating losses when bad players essentially 'feed' another enemy, and that's just one of the variables that is essentially beyond your control.

I think a FFA mode would be good for this game though. The people that really want to be alone, can play in that playlist. It doesn't make sense to want to be considered 'good' at team death match, but not want to participate in the team orientation of that mode, but at the same time, ND should provide a mode that facilitates these players desires to play on a team of their own.
UC2 didn't have a FFA mode. Not sure about Destiny, since I haven't played it.

Regarding "skill", I mentioned that spawns can make it luck-based up to a certain extent (spawns can also be crap in other modes, but FFA is more problematic in that regard). In UC3 FFA, the classic scenario was 2 tryhards trying to spawn camp 6 noobs. Then again, the 3 top performing players got the win, so it's not like you got a loss if you came 2nd.

Kill-stealing is also a valid concern, not just in FFA, but also in 3TDM. I don't mind kill-stealing if my teammate gets the kill, but it's definitely annoying when opponents steal my kills.

ps: The only reason I brought up FFA is because it seems more appropriate for a solo-only playlist. Solo Team Deathmatch is an oxymoron by itself.
 
UC2 didn't have a FFA mode. Not sure about Destiny, since I haven't played it.

Regarding "skill", I mentioned that spawns can make it luck-based up to certain extent (spawns can also be crap in other modes, but FFA is more problematic in that regard). In UC3 FFA, the classic scenario was 2 tryhards trying to spawn camp 6 noobs. Then again, the 3 top performing players got the win, so it's not like you got a loss if you came 2nd.

Kill-stealing is also a valid concern, not just in FFA, but also in 3TDM. I don't mind kill-stealing if my teammate gets the kill, but it's definitely annoying when opponents steal my kills.

ps: The only reason I brought up FFA is because it seems more appropriate for a solo-only playlist. Solo Team Deathmatch is an oxymoron by itself.

Sorry I meant in UC3 :)

But yeah that's why no one ever plays comp FFA, but one versus ones are technically free for all too, so there is competitive validity to it, but only once you reduce it to two players, heh.

And yeah, I know it registers a win for the top 3 players in FFA, it does that in a few games, but it doesn't feel like a win unless you're at the top of the scoreboard on those games, to be honest.

When I first played online multiplayer video games, I stuck to FFA rather religiously, and never understood why people would want to play with teams, but now I wouldn't look back. The most recent FFA I've played is on Destiny, where it's pretty awful.
 

Drencrom

Member
When the hell are we getting the second summer update? It's only 3 days until the ranked season is over and it's September soon.

We should at least have some info by now.
 

Drencrom

Member
well crafted my ass lol.

These maps just aren't interesting. I much preferred UC2 and 3 maps even.

There's nothing in UC4 that's on the level of The Village, High Rise, Fort, London Underground anything.

I personally just want a level like High Rise with lots of verticality. Not sure why the designers are so afraid of that.

Just imagine High Rise with added grappling hook points, that would be a ton of fun!
 
I personally just want a level like High Rise with lots of verticality. Not sure why the designers are so afraid of that.

Just imagine High Rise with added grappling hook points, that would be a ton of fun!

Probably because High Rise tends to come up as one of the communities least favourite maps on UC3. Whenever I saw threads going round about maps that were liked / disliked, it was...

Most disliked: Highrise, Molten Ruins and City of Brass
Most liked: London Underground, Airstrip, Museum

Sources: 1, 2, 3

Interestingly, at least based on that sample, the maps that people like the most are the more traditional 3 lane maps, and the maps that people like the least are more open and free form. City of Brass is a deviation from that rule though, as it's a 3 lane map but probably the least favourite of the lot.

Either way, even the more traditional 3 lane maps have a bit more vertical than UC4s. Maps like Museum effectively have two layers to the entire map. Uncharted 4 never really has anything like that, they kind of replaced that layer with occasional surfaces to swing between. Overall the maps feel much more like TLOUs than Uncharted 4. TLOUs maps are great in TLOU and they're not bad here, but they lack variety.
 

Vade

Member
Probably because High Rise tends to come up as one of the communities least favourite maps on UC3. Whenever I saw threads going round about maps that were liked / disliked, it was...

Most disliked: Highrise, Molten Ruins and City of Brass
Most liked: London Underground, Airstrip, Museum

Sources: 1, 2, 3

Interestingly, at least based on that sample, the maps that people like the most are the more traditional 3 lane maps, and the maps that people like the least are more open and free form. City of Brass is a deviation from that rule though, as it's a 3 lane map but probably the least favourite of the lot.

Either way, even the more traditional 3 lane maps have a bit more vertical than UC4s. Maps like Museum effectively have two layers to the entire map. Uncharted 4 never really has anything like that, they kind of replaced that layer with occasional surfaces to swing between. Overall the maps feel much more like TLOUs than Uncharted 4. TLOUs maps are great in TLOU and they're not bad here, but they lack variety.

Which is slightly ironic because people said Flooded Ruins was one of the best DLC maps for uc2.
 
Which is slightly ironic because people said Flooded Ruins was one of the best DLC maps for uc2.

Yeah a lot of people hated the new look and also how sprinting altered the dynamics of the map. Lot of running away from gunfights due to all the cover that's in the way. It's a different game and map design doesn't always translate.

I know Molten Ruins was one of my least favourites too. I'm not sure why they changed it, people like the Unchartedy, overgrown theme, then they decided to give it a weird, fire ravaged theme instead? Seems like they changed it for the sake of it.
 

Vade

Member
Yeah a lot of people hated the new look and also how sprinting altered the dynamics of the map. Lot of running away from gunfights due to all the cover that's in the way. It's a different game and map design doesn't always translate.

I know Molten Ruins was one of my least favourites too. I'm not sure why they changed it, people like the Unchartedy, overgrown theme, then they decided to give it a weird, fire ravaged theme instead? Seems like they changed it for the sake of it.

I think you hit the absolute keys why the map was terrible in UC3; sprint with the ridiculous amounts of cover and the aesthetic change. Flooded looked amazing with the constant downpour and night look compared to the tint everything red and add orange paper pieces all over.

Speaking of maps being translated over, I thought facility played better with sprint because of the massive size in uc3 rather than in uc2. Water probably played a part in that as well.
 
Probably because High Rise tends to come up as one of the communities least favourite maps on UC3. Whenever I saw threads going round about maps that were liked / disliked, it was...

Most disliked: Highrise, Molten Ruins and City of Brass
Most liked: London Underground, Airstrip, Museum

Sources: 1, 2, 3

Interestingly, at least based on that sample, the maps that people like the most are the more traditional 3 lane maps, and the maps that people like the least are more open and free form. City of Brass is a deviation from that rule though, as it's a 3 lane map but probably the least favourite of the lot.

Either way, even the more traditional 3 lane maps have a bit more vertical than UC4s. Maps like Museum effectively have two layers to the entire map. Uncharted 4 never really has anything like that, they kind of replaced that layer with occasional surfaces to swing between. Overall the maps feel much more like TLOUs than Uncharted 4. TLOUs maps are great in TLOU and they're not bad here, but they lack variety.
I hate the fact that the UC4 SP levels have so much verticality (they definitely classify as "expert" maps/levels), while their MP counterparts are flat, 3-lane, cookie cutter maps...

ND shouldn't always listen to the majority. The majority isn't always right. ND should stick to their guns sometimes (for example, I'm glad they didn't pander to public level crybabies).

Btw, it was mainly the DTI/FF folks that hated Highrise. They were good at shooting, but bad at platforming, therefore they hated verticality (jumping caused too many deaths, lol).

Uncharted is a shooter with platforming elements, so it should cater to both audiences.
 
Need look at the reasons why certain maps were disliked. Highrise suffered from parties camping up the top one the edge of map and sniping. Should all know which building I mean. With UC2/3 mechanics it was hard to flush them out, UC4 on the other hand, one El Dorado thrown downstairs and they all gone. Matches where people didn't play like shits and camp were great.
 
Need look at the reasons why certain maps were disliked. Highrise suffered from parties camping up the top one the edge of map and sniping. Should all know which building I mean. With UC2/3 mechanics it was hard to flush them out, UC4 on the other hand, one El Dorado thrown downstairs and they all gone. Matches where people didn't play like shits and camp were great.
It was easy to flush out campers with the Hammer and I didn't even need the booster that increased its shell capacity (6 -> 12).

And now that I mention it, Hammer > China Lake. I hate arc aiming, not to mention the slower RoF.
 

Nev

Banned
I hate the fact that the UC4 SP levels have so much verticality (they definitely classify as "expert" maps/levels), while their MP counterparts are flat, 3-lane, cookie cutter maps...

"Maps" in U4 SP are definitely some of the best if not the best maps in the entire franchise. Their design is just impeccable. God knows why it wasn't transferred over to the MP like it did in previous games for the most part. I'm guessing typical inferiority complex Naughty Dog being afraid of losing the players of garbage multiplayer games like CoD they never actually had.
 

Djostikk

Member
When the hell are we getting the second summer update? It's only 3 days until the ranked season is over and it's September soon.

We should at least have some info by now.

Yeah, we need second update, like, right now, lol. I wonder when they are going to release something big like coop mode or horde (did they even said something about that horde?).
 

NastyBook

Member
Aaaaaand I'm done with this game.

2000 relics for ONE shitty paletteswap skin? Go fuck yourselves, ND.

I'll check out co-op whenever they release it just to see how they'll fuck that up too.

Never before have I played a MP that got continually worse with each installment and iteration. Congrats on being kings of Shitopia ND, long may you reign.
I just dropped the whole thing. Uninstalled the game. Feel free of a burden. Maybe I'll come back if they magic up some miracle patch. I doubt it though.
Uninstalled the game.

Logged on to do my 3 challenges and there is just zero fun in it.

Was gonna write a long rant with reasons but everyone knows them all. If this wasn't Uncharted I would have dropped it the week of release for being so god damn fucking awful, the legacy of UC2/3 is the only thing that kept me playing.

But enough, final result of UC4 is one of the worst MP experiences ever. Hope whoever is respnsible for this dogshit moves on to another company.
Ba-da-ba-ba-BAAAAAAA! I'm loving it!

Seriously, it warms my heart to see people coming around on this booty ass MP. Game was at its best when it was barebones and not chasing COD-bucks. Then they somehow get it into their heads that TLOU down state was a good idea? And then Cogburn's lying ass, talking about how the game has evolved. On the surface, sure, but backbone-wise, it has some of the same damn issues from UC2. This was the only game in 2016 where matchmaking would take me FROM A PARTY and put me on the other team. But you know what does work? The Uncharted Points! Day one, fully functioning without a hitch. If they ever do make a UC5, I hope they go with a "back to basics" ass-kissing campaign to win us all back.
 
Need look at the reasons why certain maps were disliked. Highrise suffered from parties camping up the top one the edge of map and sniping. Should all know which building I mean. With UC2/3 mechanics it was hard to flush them out, UC4 on the other hand, one El Dorado thrown downstairs and they all gone. Matches where people didn't play like shits and camp were great.

Eh, most people talk about not liking it because it's too chaotic. There's not much to break sightlines from certain areas of the map when standing in buildins, besides just hiding on the lower floors, and in those areas you still open yourselves up to too many sight-lines at any one individual time, giving players a very low sense of agency regarding why they were killed. Meanwhile fighting on the floor against others on the floor as sprinting gave players the defensive advantage... you can't run and shoot so it was easy to just run away whenever you didn't want a fight. That wasn't possible in U2's iteration of the map, so they played better there and the reduced overall pacing also helped players keep a good awareness of everything going on, and make gameplay more predictable.

So it's not just a certain, specific playstyle that spoiled these maps, it's their design interacting with the games mechanics. If camping were the reason that people disliked maps, everyone would hate airstrip as the rooftop was more camped out than anywhere else in the game.

Same with molten ruins, both the outside and inside main areas have very little to break line of sight from the main structures. It doesn't do much to promote traversal because traversal exposes you to so many lines of sight at any one time.

I think maps like Cave's were actually the worst though. It was so asymmetrical with a huge down-hill advantage for teams spawning on the lower area. This became a bigger issue in objective modes, where it was a literal uphill battle to control the midpoint for the team spawning at the bottom of the cave.
 

Wowbagger

Member
According to their roadmap, we're supposed to get at least one more map, a new game mode and a cinema replay feature as part of the summer update.

Feels like autumn here. :/
 

Drencrom

Member
Who's to say he's not referring to the autumn and winter update?

You're probably right that he's talking about future updates.

I'm not gonna go into the whole "lazy devs" bullcrap people like to throw around, but man, it's annoying that they are pushing out their updates so slow. Summer is over and we haven't gotten the our maps, our new gamemode or the cinema mode yet. At this pace we're probably getting Co-Op at the end of november as it's "still autumn" according to them.

Also, what happened with their new community manager Scott Lowe? Haven't seen him interact with the community on either the ND forums/Reddit/Twitter or said anything for that matter regarding the MP or future updates. It's incredible that ND apparently has two full time Community Managers, but the only updates we do get are some few tweets from a pair of ND MP devs.
 
You're probably right that he's talking about future maps...

I'm not gonna go into the whole "lazy devs" bullcrap people like to throw around, but man, it's annoying that they are pushing out their updates so slow. Summer is over and we haven't gotten the our maps, our new gamemode or the cinema mode yet. At this pace we're probably getting Co-Op at the end of november as it's "still autumn" according to them.
They're not lazy.

It's just that they're busy working on:

1) PS4 Neo update (1080p60)
2) UC4 Left Behind 2.0
3) TLOU2

90% of their resources/manpower are allocated to those projects... the roadmap is "free", so no one can complain about it. I expect huge delays as well.
 

WinFonda

Member
I don't agree with this at all. It's super easy to get carried to wins in this game (and Master as a result) if you play with other teammates who are better than you and just stay near them and out of trouble. I would consider a solo Master player infinitely more skilled than a group Master player because you actually have to play well all the time. There's way more high-level individually-skilled players than there are high-level groups, most obviously because there's a larger data set (1 vs 5 at a time). As a result, yes, two high-level groups going at it will be way more competitive, but it doesn't happen as much. High-level groups frequently steamroll the competition.

Hypothetically, if there were no parties allowed and all the best players had to play solo, that would balance out the "headless chicken" bad players. From there, the best players would have to carry the entire team, which is a lot harder to do than being a part of a superteam and steamrolling 90% of the competition.

The reason why there are very few solo players at the upper ranks is due to the bandwagon effect/herd behavior, meaning that everyone just assumes "Ranked is harder because it counts, so we need to only play in parties". As a result, everyone is afraid to play solo, so they don't. This is why I want solo playlists. There's a larger group of us out there than you would think.
yep, U4's ranked system is one of the biggest jokes there is.

any ranked system worth a damn separates solo queue from group queue, including all the mobas. and in all those competitive games, climbing the solo queue ladder is considered to be the most raw skill oriented thing you can do in the game.

solo ranked doesn't mean you don't play as a team, it means you adapt and play with and around your team with every new match. it's more random, obviously, but adapting to the random environment is a big part of the skill. playing with a steady group is a different type of gameplay and player skill that is more about team decision making and callouts; that's why they're separated in just about every ranked system out there.

it's too late to change it to solo queue though, they can't change it now and take away the group aspect from people who are accustomed to it, and the player pool can't support separate solo and team queues in the long run. therefore ranked will always be fluffy trash filled with teams stomping pubs all day and dodging other teams so they can pretend to be "masters" at the game according to the leaderboards. tho a year from now i suspect most of the high level games will take place in one of the newly added modes anyway, so it's moot.
 
Patch coming next week, live update just came through so ranked season extended a few days.

Hey everyone,

As some have already noticed, today we introduced a Live Update to Uncharted 4 Multiplayer. We've extended the Ranked Team Deathmatch Season by four days. Why? Aside from giving players a chance to get their next rank / ranked reward under the wire, we're also paving the way for our next patch arriving next week. We'll be sharing more details soon.
http://community.us.playstation.com/t5/UNCHARTED-4-A-Thief-s-End/Live-Update-1-11-032/td-p/45923999
 
yep, U4's ranked system is one of the biggest jokes there is.

any ranked system worth a damn separates solo queue from group queue, including all the mobas. and in all those competitive games, climbing the solo queue ladder is considered to be the most raw skill oriented thing you can do in the game.

solo ranked doesn't mean you don't play as a team, it means you adapt and play with and around your team with every new match. it's more random, obviously, but adapting to the random environment is a big part of the skill. playing with a steady group is a different type of gameplay and player skill that is more about team decision making and callouts; that's why they're separated in just about every ranked system out there.

it's too late to change it to solo queue though, they can't change it now and take away the group aspect from people who are accustomed to it, and the player pool can't support separate solo and team queues in the long run. therefore ranked will always be fluffy trash filled with teams stomping pubs all day and dodging other teams so they can pretend to be "masters" at the game according to the leaderboards. tho a year from now i suspect most of the high level games will take place in one of the newly added modes anyway, so it's moot.

Nonsense. Smite, League, Halo, CS:GO, Rainbow Six Siege, they all use dynamic matchmaking systems which often rank solo queuers against parties, significantly, they use solo queuers to fill gaps in teams (at least this is true when I played them).

The only game I can think of that splits them into completely separate playlists is Rocket League, but that's because team size is really small and there are modes for each teams size.

Otherwise, without a dynamic system, parties of 4 will never find a 4th player, while parties of 2 and 3 will have difficulty matchmaking and still be extremely disadvantaged in the party only playlist.

A dynamic system is the only thing that keeps matchmaking fluid. Segmenting the player pool into separate playlists brings a whole host of issues, and in a game like Uncharted 4 which clearly doesn't have a huge playerbase playing at any one time, it's not a realistic request.
 
They should make a free weekend for UC4 MP when the patch drops if it adds some good content. Get people who aren't playing a chance to try it out and also bring in some fresh blood for vets if any.
 

WinFonda

Member
Nonsense. Smite, League, Halo, CS:GO, Rainbow Six Siege, they all use dynamic matchmaking systems which often rank solo queuers against parties, significantly, they use solo queuers to fill gaps in teams (at least this is true when I played them).

The only game I can think of that splits them into completely separate playlists is Rocket League, but that's because team size is really small and there are modes for each teams size.

Otherwise, without a dynamic system, parties of 4 will never find a 4th player, while parties of 2 and 3 will have difficulty matchmaking and still be extremely disadvantaged in the party only playlist.

A dynamic system is the only thing that keeps matchmaking fluid. Segmenting the player pool into separate playlists brings a whole host of issues, and in a game like Uncharted 4 which clearly doesn't have a huge playerbase playing at any one time, it's not a realistic request.
That's because in a proper team ranked, you need a full party to queue up. You show up as a team or you hit the solo/duo queue. It should come as no surprise that ranked playlists should have queuing restrictions. This dynamic stuff you're talking about isn't necessary and doesn't need to apply; that's a general matchmaking rule and it's a big problem that U4's ranked adheres to it... and let's be real, U4's ranked matchmaking is shit.

I know Halo's ranked system (and therefore matchmaking) is bad too, the pros lament it and I think it's pretty close to U4's. Don't know about Rainbow Six Siege.

Here's what League is doing with their ranked, they're actually removing Duo queue from the challenger tier, because even small parties can have large effects on win rates at the highest level.

TL;DR: For players near the top of the ladder, we’re bringing back solo queue and making a number of other changes focused on competitive integrity. For 2017, we’re developing a new ranked experience that offers legitimate competitive standings for all types of players. We’ll have details on the 2017 features in late September—you can read on for the short-term changes planned.

We’re focused on the top first because that’s where the 2016 ranked season changes have caused the most pain, and where we believe we can take immediate action to address player feedback. Accurate standings are critical when determining the top of the ladder, and we’re committed to addressing that with the following changes:

Challenger tier will shift to pure solo, and Diamond and Master tiers to solo/duo. We’re making this change first at Diamond / Master / Challenger because even minor levels of premade coordination have disproportionate effects on match quality at the highest tiers of ranked, given the limitations of the player pool and the sometimes massive skill disparities between single divisions.

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/competitive/riot-pls-ranked-pls

League and Dota both limit their primary ranked queue to solo, and they should be the standards other games look to follow, as they've had years and lots of data to back it up.

So yeah I don't know what you're talking about exactly, the dynamic matchmaking that currently exists across all playlists only needs to exist in U4 because they didn't limit ranked to solo/duo queue in the first place... which is my point.

Look dude, not trying to begrudge you for playing ranked in a party. That's the way it is (and will continue to be), but it's not the way it should've been. Both the matchmaking and ladder would be far more legit if they had restricted ranked to solo/duo from the get go.
 
You have to have a pretty godlike team to get carried to wins at high levels of play in UC4.

Trust me, I have tried to get a large group of my friends up to master, and some of them make it too much of an uphill battle. When they're finishing matches at 0-8, it becomes a really hard slog to repair that. And despite their best efforts they haven't managed to 'get carried' to diamond or master by simply solo queuing, it doesn't work that way. Standing next to good players whilst being bad is simply not good enough, you get downed very easily and a 4 vs 5 is hard. I don't think you've played much at master or diamond have you? The majority of games that crop up tend to be full parties, and when we did get games of solo queuers filtering in one by one, they tended by be matches where our team were favoured to win.

I really disagree with you on the level of play, the reason there are less solo players at high levels is because it's much harder to play solo, the inconsistent communication and lack of team synergy has a huge impact on your teams performance at higher levels of play, so while there are plenty of solo queuing players, most of them are not making it to the upper ranks. That makes sense though, because as I say, solo queuing inherently lacks facets of the gameplay that enable parties to take the level of play to another level. Good communication and playstyle synergy is hard to achieve in solo queue yet it's a big part of the game.

I don't actually know anyone who got to master by solo queuing but if they did, they most likely manually filtered away from parties quite effectively. Whether you're really good or not, it's very difficult to win consistently when your lumbered with bad players on a regular basis. I remember when we were playing we started recalling names of players where it was a guaranteed win for us if they were on the enemy team. Maybe if the same skill matchmaking were better, it would be easier, or maybe if the unfavoured team didn't lose as many points it would be easier, but as it stands its incredibly difficult to get to master in solo queue because it's so extremely luck based as to whether you get competent team mates, or not.

It's not hard to play solo, people just chose to team up because they know it gives them a tremendous advantage. As I've said before I play 90% solo and I have an over 80% win percentage in TDM and 60% in Ranked. My skill is usually enough to carry the team. If I play with just one party member, the win % is probably something like 95% in TDM (unscientific, obviously).

That's my point--if everyone had to deal with the same variables (inconsistent teammates, lack of synergy/communication) then it would balance out, and more games would be competitive overall. But with the current setup a full party, basically no matter the skill, will win at least 70% of the time. And the better ones will win 85%+ of the time.

It SHOULD be difficult to win consistently. Theoretically every match should end 40-39 if the game is matching teammates properly. But with parties involved, it throws everything off and the people who are most adversely affected are those who cannot or do not join a party.

That's because in a proper team ranked, you need a full party to queue up. You show up as a team or you hit the solo/duo queue. It should come as no surprise that ranked playlists should have queuing restrictions. This dynamic stuff you're talking about isn't necessary and doesn't need to apply; that's a general matchmaking rule and it's a big problem that U4's ranked adheres to it... and let's be real, U4's ranked matchmaking is shit.

I know Halo's ranked system (and therefore matchmaking) is bad too, the pros lament it and I think it's pretty close to U4's. Don't know about Rainbow Six Siege.

Here's what League is doing with their ranked, they're actually removing Duo queue from the challenger tier, because even small parties can have large effects on win rates at the highest level.



http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/competitive/riot-pls-ranked-pls

League and Dota both limit their primary ranked queue to solo, and they should be the standards other games look to follow, as they've had years and lots of data to back it up.

So yeah I don't know what you're talking about exactly, the dynamic matchmaking that currently exists across all playlists only needs to exist in U4 because they didn't limit ranked to solo/duo queue in the first place... which is my point.

Look dude, not trying to begrudge you for playing ranked in a party. That's the way it is (and will continue to be), but it's not the way it should've been. Both the matchmaking and ladder would be far more legit if they had restricted ranked to solo/duo from the get go.

Thank you. These teams that steamroll ranked in U4 would see MUCH worse results if they had to do it solo. Solo is the utmost test of skill because you are affected by all variables (your teammates and the enemy team) ALL the time. If you play with a good party, you know you have the advantage 85-90% of the time. It's not competitive. I've been in parties where one player alone has determined the outcome of the game (I'm talking 25-30 downs/KOs). I've also watched streams on Twitch where literally the top five players on the Ranked Leaderboard are playing together and they literally never lose. Put them into a solo game and it's a markedly different story. They're still better than the average player, but they're not winning 99.2% of their games. It's a joke.

The 5-10% of the time when a party full of elite players runs into an actual challenge (meaning they run into a similar beefed-up party) is like a bump in the road as opposed to a true test of skill. As soon as that match is over they will go back to steamrolling teams for the next 15-20 matches.
 
They should probably remove Ranked, extend the level cap to 100 (no "prestige" plz to capture the CoD audience) and make the rewards level-based. This playlist with its tiny player pool is causing too much unnecessary frustration & lag for everyone involved.
 
They should probably remove Ranked, extend the level cap to 100 (no "prestige" plz to capture the CoD audience) and make the rewards level-based. This playlist with its tiny player pool is causing too much unnecessary frustration & lag for everyone involved.

These are all great ideas, actually, except they would probably have to have some sort of prestige to give people incentive to keep playing. It's going to be faster to rank up in Season 2, and since you only have to play a match once a week to avoid de-ranking, there's even less incentive to come back. So, these changes would keep people coming back.

Command is the best way to level up?

Yes, with the reduction in cash for certain TDM medals, Command now gives the most points per match on average. Plunder probably gives the most points per minute since the matches are usually over much quicker, but both are better than TDM for ranking up.
 

Djostikk

Member
Yes, with the reduction in cash for certain TDM medals, Command now gives the most points per match on average. Plunder probably gives the most points per minute since the matches are usually over much quicker, but both are better than TDM for ranking up.

Damn, was playing TDM almost all the time since release. I was wondering how fast some people level up. I guess I should start playing Command more.
 

Javin98

Banned
Hella yes! About time for a new map. Hopefully, Team Objective will be in this new update as well. But first and foremost, I want ND to fix their damn shitty netcode. My Internet isn't the issue. When I was partying up with stryke, almost all of the matches went on without the white plugs.

Another Island/New Devon map, huh? Someone suggested a while ago that we'd get a prison map with this update, probably based on the plethora of prison skins, though that might still come down the road. Personally i'm hoping for a map set in the Madagascar wilderness.
Isn't Island already a map based on the 2014 PSX demo area? Speaking of maps, does anyone have a clue where Remnants is based on? The beginning of Chapter 13?
 
Hella yes! About time for a new map. Hopefully, Team Objective will be in this new update as well. But first and foremost, I want ND to fix their damn shitty netcode. My Internet isn't the issue. When I was partying up with stryke, almost all of the matches went on without the white plugs.


Isn't Island already a map based on the 2014 PSX demo area? Speaking of maps, does anyone have a clue where Remnants is based on? The beginning of Chapter 13?

Yes, but i meant that it's another map based on the main island location in the game. Including this new map we'll have 6/10 maps set on the island:

- Remnants
- Island
- Pirate Colony
- River
- Sunken Ruins
- New map

While these all have a distinct look, other locations from the game deserve some love too!

Remnants seems to be based on chapter 13, but a bit remixed with unique elements or elements from different parts of the game, which is true of other maps as well.
 

Javin98

Banned
Yes, but i meant that it's another map based on the main island location in the game. Including this new map we'll have 6/10 maps set on the island:

- Remnants
- Island
- Pirate Colony
- River
- Sunken Ruins
- New map

While these all have a distinct look, other locations from the game deserve some love too!

Remnants seems to be based on chapter 13, but a bit remixed with unique elements or elements from different parts of the game, which is true of other maps as well.
Hmm, are there any other memorable Madagascar wilderness locations in the SP? I can only recall the Chapter 13 encounter.

Edit: I just realized this whole time I was only thinking of Saint Mary's Island. Technically, the savannah plains and island hopping areas would also count as Madagascar wilderness locations.
 
Hmm, are there any other memorable Madagascar wilderness locations in the SP? I can only recall the Chapter 13 encounter.

Edit: I just realized this whole time I was only thinking of Saint Mary's Island. Technically, the savannah plains and island hopping areas would also count as Madagascar wilderness locations.

Yeah, i meant the savannah plains and the area around the Volcano. :)
 
It's not hard to play solo, people just chose to team up because they know it gives them a tremendous advantage. As I've said before I play 90% solo and I have an over 80% win percentage in TDM and 60% in Ranked. My skill is usually enough to carry the team. If I play with just one party member, the win % is probably something like 95% in TDM (unscientific, obviously).

That's my point--if everyone had to deal with the same variables (inconsistent teammates, lack of synergy/communication) then it would balance out, and more games would be competitive overall. But with the current setup a full party, basically no matter the skill, will win at least 70% of the time. And the better ones will win 85%+ of the time.

It SHOULD be difficult to win consistently. Theoretically every match should end 40-39 if the game is matching teammates properly. But with parties involved, it throws everything off and the people who are most adversely affected are those who cannot or do not join a party.



Thank you. These teams that steamroll ranked in U4 would see MUCH worse results if they had to do it solo. Solo is the utmost test of skill because you are affected by all variables (your teammates and the enemy team) ALL the time. If you play with a good party, you know you have the advantage 85-90% of the time. It's not competitive. I've been in parties where one player alone has determined the outcome of the game (I'm talking 25-30 downs/KOs). I've also watched streams on Twitch where literally the top five players on the Ranked Leaderboard are playing together and they literally never lose. Put them into a solo game and it's a markedly different story. They're still better than the average player, but they're not winning 99.2% of their games. It's a joke.

The 5-10% of the time when a party full of elite players runs into an actual challenge (meaning they run into a similar beefed-up party) is like a bump in the road as opposed to a true test of skill. As soon as that match is over they will go back to steamrolling teams for the next 15-20 matches.

Not intending to be rude man but do you or the other poster even play at or near master rank? Most of the matches I find are parties. Also, winning 60% of the time while solo sounds like a hard time to me. If you're good and your not currently placed within the correct bracket you should be winning a lot more frequently, but of course, the variability of team mates and such makes that hard.

The biggest issue with the matchmaking is that you can drop out. So what we see in ranked is that while we will find stacked parties 80-90% of the time, these parties often drop out of the matchmaking in the hopes that they can find an easier game. We would often see this more than 5 times in row, at which point the matchmaking gives up and starts 'searching for players'. This needs to be fixed.

But as for splitting the queues, that's neat that League are trying something, but games like Halo, Rainbow Six, Gears of War, Call of Duty are not, and League itself has also had seven years of dynamic queuing. You originally offered the impression that practically every other ranked experience is offering better, but the reality is that they're not.

Ultimately if we're talking real competition, real esports, the best players are not discerned from one another on any of these online ranking systems and for the most part these ranking systems are designed with the practical constraints of the game, relative to the games competitive validity in mind. Uncharted 4 is not an esport and never will be, so why would Naughty Dog (or the developers of any of these games without a huge esports scene) split up a relatively small community, undergo additional development work, pushing for a system that's ultimately less practical and convenient for its player base.

At master rank on Uncharted 4, I play with a party of between 3 and 5 people, and we regularly see the same players, as if the game only has 10 or so teams queuing at any one time. If you split the playists between solo and parties where would parties of 2, 3 and 4 play? In the 5 man playlist where they'd get stomped by 5 mans? How would the 4 man playlists find an extra player? Heck, I have sat on the menus of this game for over 10 minutes trying to find a game at Diamond and Master ranks, how would anyone find a game if we begin dividing the player pool?

At the end of the day Naughtydog have no intentions to shape Uncharted 4 into the next big e-sport, so it doesn't make sense to focus a system so heavily on competitive validity at the cost of practicality. Look at the scoreboards in ranked, look at the players at the top of the leaderboards, for the most part the ranking system is doing an at least, reasonable job of rewarding the better players. If you're playing solo you're likely to have a harder time, yes, but ultimately that's the nature of the game, and the resolution to that, isn't worth the practical expense.

As I say, what many parties were intentionally doing to boost their rank in season 2, was matchmaking until they found solo queuers, and backing out if they found a party. I believe Naughtydog have spoken about resolving this, what I would recommend is waiting until they issue a fix for this issue, and then seeing if you have a better experience. Either way, as someone that hops between ranked console modes of various games, I'm not accepting the argument that Uncharted is the worst, or that everything is better elsewhere. League and DotA, which have had similar issues for numerous years, have player bases that are many folds larger than Uncharted 4's, lending these games to more flexible solutions while more comparable experiences like Rainbow Six, Halo, Gears of War and Call of Duty have experienced similar issues to what we face on Uncharted 4.
 
Top Bottom