You still don't understand what a QTE is. I suggest you repeatedly mash the reply button to get out of this.
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Uncharted 4: A Thief's End |OT| You're gonna miss this ass
- Thread starter BaraSailey
- Start date
You still don't understand what a QTE is. I suggest you repeatedly mash the reply button to get out of this.
Spring-Loaded
Member
But there's so much of it
The first time through, I didn't mind for the most part, but going back through some of it (even the clocktower) to get to parts I wanted to play was kind of rough.
This. "Press X to open the door". FUCKING STUPID QUICKTIME EVENT!!
Man, the whole of Scotland is so good. I think this is kind of the tone/ pacing they were aiming for in a nutshell, and succeeding at it too.
Chapter 8 has a solid mix of traversal and open ended shootouts, then Chapter 9 has the cave exploration building up to the awesome stretch of encounters as you escape.
The second playthrough is helping me appreciate the good aspects of the game a bit more. Overall it feels more episodic, where the previous games had a very constant and continuous pace to them. Like, reaching Madagascar feels like a natural resting point, and the same with chapter 12 and then 16.
The game really is its own beast. I don't think there's another TPS out there like it. Maybe MGS3 is the closest I can think of (but that could just be the jungle environment).
I agree with those saying the slow bits can be zipped through on repeat playthroughs improving the pacing. I think over time it will be looked at as a game that went for quality over quantity, despite being the longest in the series, even if there's some fat that could be trimmed here and there.
Chapter 8 has a solid mix of traversal and open ended shootouts, then Chapter 9 has the cave exploration building up to the awesome stretch of encounters as you escape.
The second playthrough is helping me appreciate the good aspects of the game a bit more. Overall it feels more episodic, where the previous games had a very constant and continuous pace to them. Like, reaching Madagascar feels like a natural resting point, and the same with chapter 12 and then 16.
The game really is its own beast. I don't think there's another TPS out there like it. Maybe MGS3 is the closest I can think of (but that could just be the jungle environment).
I agree with those saying the slow bits can be zipped through on repeat playthroughs improving the pacing. I think over time it will be looked at as a game that went for quality over quantity, despite being the longest in the series, even if there's some fat that could be trimmed here and there.
I think it's a game that put the story and closure of a character at the forefront. For me, if that was their goal, they absolutely succeeded.
It's very much like Left Behind for me. I enjoy the combat encounters in Last of Us very much because I think the gameplay is ace and there wasn't enough of that there just like there was here.
For how good this plays in the combat encounters it's relatively thin in the amount of shooting bits compared to other games of a similar length.
Maybe I have a high tolerance for this, it just doesn't bother me at all. I understand why it does other people, but it just never occurred to me that I had been platforming for a long time. I was happily looking around the environment for the next area/puzzle and taking a million photos. I would have liked a couple more puzzles and another combat section but it's not a big detraction for me.
Have you watched Eye of Indra, the comic prequel of Uncharted 1?
There we see Nathan as a character in his complete scope and he is very capable of killing and also plan a killing.
Go watch it because it is well written, its sort (20 mins) and will give you my point of view of Nathan as a character.
I did not write that Rafe is a good person, all I say is that when he wants something he follows more normal methods to acquire it than the Drake brothers. For them to acquire the cross in Italy results in lots of dead people, plus the logical outcome that the Italian mafia will go after them.
And the mafia does not forget, but in the end we have a happy ending for the Drake family, they didn't even change their names.
Rafe hired the mercenaries and partnered with Nadine after Nathan left him and Sams betrayal.
Anyway in my first playthrough i thought to a point that they set Rafe like that in order to justify the killing of Sam, if it ever happened, something that they did not do in the end.
I really liked the interaction between Nathan and Elena and the game become a lot better in the chapters that you interact with her.
There we see Nathan as a character in his complete scope and he is very capable of killing and also plan a killing.
Go watch it because it is well written, its sort (20 mins) and will give you my point of view of Nathan as a character.
I did not write that Rafe is a good person, all I say is that when he wants something he follows more normal methods to acquire it than the Drake brothers. For them to acquire the cross in Italy results in lots of dead people, plus the logical outcome that the Italian mafia will go after them.
And the mafia does not forget, but in the end we have a happy ending for the Drake family, they didn't even change their names.
Rafe hired the mercenaries and partnered with Nadine after Nathan left him and Sams betrayal.
Anyway in my first playthrough i thought to a point that they set Rafe like that in order to justify the killing of Sam, if it ever happened, something that they did not do in the end.
I really liked the interaction between Nathan and Elena and the game become a lot better in the chapters that you interact with her.
Regarding trophies, since the questions keep coming about them:
-You can use cheats
-Can be done in multiple playthroughs
-Can be done by choosing chapters
-Outside the ones that especify it, can be done in any difficulty
-You can/need to skip cutscenes
-You can use checkpoints
-While collecting treasures you can quit (no need to finish the whole chapter)
-You can use cheats
-Can be done in multiple playthroughs
-Can be done by choosing chapters
-Outside the ones that especify it, can be done in any difficulty
-You can/need to skip cutscenes
-You can use checkpoints
-While collecting treasures you can quit (no need to finish the whole chapter)
ITT, we learn that every game is an overinflated QTE.
I might be alone in this, but feel like the heavily cinematic theme in UC4 defeats the purpose of a movie. The game is literally trying to be a movie and is definitely going for that feel.
I rather not have a movie that cannot get actors who can't evoke the same feeling as these characters in this game. They'd have to take a lot of comprises that will probably not even payoff.
I might be alone in this, but feel like the heavily cinematic theme in UC4 defeats the purpose of a movie. The game is literally trying to be a movie and is definitely going for that feel.
I rather not have a movie that cannot get actors who can't evoke the same feeling as these characters in this game. They'd have to take a lot of comprises that will probably not even payoff.
Lys Skygge
Member
I know there aren't many collectables to reward exploration...but damn does exploration feel great anyways. Even on my second playthrough I found myself aimlessly exploring the environment. I can easily see how ND takes design philosophy from ICO or SoTC and applied it to UC4 (especially the open environments). It was refreshing to explore an environment without a map or checklist.
You might not be rewarded a collectable for exploration, but you get to experience the rich world that ND has created. To me, that's better than checking off an objective from a list.
You might not be rewarded a collectable for exploration, but you get to experience the rich world that ND has created. To me, that's better than checking off an objective from a list.
Just finished the game, what a masterpiece. The story put tears in my eyes, multiple times, after Chapter 15, and now I sincerely miss the characters. I wish they were real people that you could write to, or meet at signings. Ah well.
My only gripe at certain times was the combat. That encounter in ND to be more specific, in the mansion. Good grief that was horrible.
Other than that, an absolute masterpiece.
UC4 > TLOU > UC2
My only gripe at certain times was the combat. That encounter in ND to be more specific, in the mansion. Good grief that was horrible.
Other than that, an absolute masterpiece.
UC4 > TLOU > UC2
Fancy Clown
Member
RE the cross stuff...I hate to break it to you but Nathan is a
thief
Actually there are quite a few thing to collect.
Treasures, journal and entries different conversations and such its pretty rewarding.
Okay, I'm really trying to understand things from your perspective, but why are you going to such lengths to justify odd reasoning? I can't get there with you.
I haven't seen what you're referring to. Something tells me they wouldn't sway that far from the character they've created to put him in a position of greed, that whoever would want a cut on something he's a part of would be so expendable, that he'd just put one in his head to end it. It's not the character they've created. Rafe is. A scumbag who wants glory beyond all else.
You asked how bad is he. He's hiring a mercenary outfit to accomplish his goals. That's to ensure no one else gets what he's after. Killing anyone they cross. Nate splitting and Sam ditching him isn't exactly enough of a reason to be that shitty. I just feel like you're framing it any way you can to make it sound like he's not really something he clearly is. A murderer with little appreciation for anything but his goal of finding a treasure and seeking fame.
You asked how bad is he. He's hiring a mercenary outfit to accomplish his goals. That's to ensure no one else gets what he's after. Killing anyone they cross. Nate splitting and Sam ditching him isn't exactly enough of a reason to be that shitty. I just feel like you're framing it any way you can to make it sound like he's not really something he clearly is. A murderer with little appreciation for anything but his goal of finding a treasure and seeking fame.
Ascenion
Member
We will just have to agree to disagree. Replaying the game right now and I'm towards the point
a supernatural element would be introduced I still don't see how it would change anything thematically. I'm even thinking of different supernatural aspects, the island itself could just be cursed ala TR2013 just no scary zombie dudes. There are ways to make it work. It might be I see it easier because I feel U4 just retreads ground U3 did, some aspects of it better. Like I've said Nate learns nothing new, he just sees his U3 self in Sam and affirms this life is wrong. Not a strong message imo. Also Sam is 100% cliche up until the lie is revealed and even then it's cliche still until the ending. He's a long lost sibling that ends up being a piece of shit, right up until the end.
A movie would be good I think. It would streamline the plot, cut the fat and likely be better paced. Actors would be an issue, but with a good script I think it could deliver.
Fancy Clown
Member
I know I don't feel rewarded for exploration unless I'm collecting some arbitrary scrap that fills up an xp bar on an already cluttered HUD screen so I can upgrade skills I should have had from the beginning of the game.
Yeah we are gonna have to agree to disagree because I don't agree with any of that lol. People tossing around "cliché" way too much in here. If Sam were one dimensional than yeah...but he's not, he's a developed character.
it's also not a retread of 3 considering this greatly expands on those themes through different characters and and a logical progression in the timeline for literally more mature context for Nate's personal life. Boiling down Nate's arc to one sentence doesn't erase all the storytelling the game did to develop that theme and the characters that drive it. All Citizen Kane is about is a dude that realizes he lost his innocence at a young age.
Yeah we are gonna have to agree to disagree because I don't agree with any of that lol. People tossing around "cliché" way too much in here. If Sam were one dimensional than yeah...but he's not, he's a developed character.
long lost brother who is a piece of shit is a silly oversimplification, and weird moral reading of his character. He has plenty of good qualities, he was certainly misguided but he spent the last 15 years of his life stuck in a prison cell and displays many of the same characteristics Drake himself did a few games ago.
Lys Skygge
Member
Eh, compared to most modern games, not really. You have journal entries, conversations, and useless treasures. At least the journal entries and conversations add to the story.
By the way, I'm praising Uncharted for not adding a bunch of useless crap to discover. I greatly prefer UC4s open environments to anything from Ubisoft.
You are probably right tbh. I just wouldn't mind seeing a movie like this on the big screen.
Lys Skygge
Member
God, I hope we never get a movie. I honestly hope TLoU movie stays in development hell too. A movie would cheapen the franchise.
Fancy Clown
Member
Not to mention would 99.9999% chance would be terrible. In videogames Umcharted occupies a pretty unique niche, and particularly with this game leverages the long run time and interactive elements for a way more introspective narrative you would get in a 100 minute blockbuster. As a movie it would just come across like a weird knock off of Indiana Jones.
SmellyHoundRedux
Banned
So how about this:
The epilogue takes place in England at Nathan's funeral, and his daughter is still very young, elana is obviously grieving but is approached by Roger Croft (a handsome world explorer), as the scene fades out Elana introduces herself and her daughter; Laura!!!!!!! Straight fire, BROs!
I think they could have introduced a supernatural aspect, like vengeful ghosts of the dead colonists or something. So have it be the lasting result of the rebellion, not the cause of it. I do still think the reason for the destruction of Libertalia is more powerful when it is the result of human greed. It just shows how people can be corrupted and how much damage a human can do with no outside influence. It's an interesting look at the negative aspects of human nature.
While Nate already knew the thief's life was no good, he really honestly believed it here, and had the choice to walk away with that knowledge. He also experienced the stress and worry of being a companion with a person completely obsessed with treasure. It was a case of the shoe on the other foot. It helped him understand himself and those around him. I liked it anyway.
While Nate already knew the thief's life was no good, he really honestly believed it here, and had the choice to walk away with that knowledge. He also experienced the stress and worry of being a companion with a person completely obsessed with treasure. It was a case of the shoe on the other foot. It helped him understand himself and those around him. I liked it anyway.
MegaSackman
Member
This is not a game to test skills, I'm pretty sure that's not Naughty Dog intention with any of their games (yeah you have your fair amount of challenge but that's not even a second goal), if you want to feel skilled well... you may want to play another game.
Lys Skygge
Member
I feel the only way
a supernatural element would have worked with this game, is if it was of the non-aggressive type. Maybe some colonist/founder echoes in the form of ghosts (instead of letters). But that would have felt extremely forced.
Honestly, Libertalia and New Deven had such a haunting feel to them, that a supernatural element is unnecessary.
Honestly, Libertalia and New Deven had such a haunting feel to them, that a supernatural element is unnecessary.
I just finished the game. I was in tears at the end of the epilogue. This series has a deep meaning to me. I first played Uncharted 1 in the fall of 2008 when I had just started college. I thought is was a good game, but Uncharted 2 is what blew my mind away. I played hundreds of hours on that multiplayer. Uncharted 3 came around and I loved it too, although not as much as Uncharted 2. I also picked up Golden Abyss, which was better than I expected. During those years I had many ups and downs with school. Sometimes I thought I wouldn't finish, but during that whole time I had Uncharted to keep me up. I finally got my act together and just last weekend I graduated with my bachelor's degree. Finishing this game, and the franchise for the time being, feels like ending a part of my life that while it wasn't perfect it was fantastic. Seeing the ending with the photographs killed me with the nostalgia. The final boss did a bit of that too. Nathan Drake and Uncharted will always have a special place in my heart for those reasons.
What in the world are you going on about, you're definition of a qte would be any action in a game ever haha.
Keihart
Member
There is a
conversation between some guards at the start of the infiltration with sam
MaybeBurger
Banned
That whole UC4 is littered with QTE discussion.. Lol. You have no idea what a QTE is.
Fancy Clown
Member
The last third is the best part of the game tho
Coolbgdog12
Member
If UC4 is a QTE, every game is a QTE. If you don't press buttons in time, you may lose.
GravityInsanity
Member
Somebody should make a montage of Drake breaking stuff.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
They absolutely took the easy way out because they didn't stick with the tone established. They didn't stick with the UC tone nor did they stick with the more serious tone, ad then we get a perfect everyone wins happy ending that's not thought provoking in anyway shape or form in the same way that MGSV's ending is "You're actually the biggest boss, congrats here's a cookie." And no there's a large difference between bittersweet, and straight up bitter.
Nathan Drake having a daughter living rich on a beach house without a worry in the world and then retelling his story enthusiastically is pretty friggin self indulgent.
So, I finished my first playthrough today, played it on hard and I enjoyed it.
The artistic vision and the graphics are incredible, the narrative picked up in the second half and was well executed, but nothing too spectacular.
In terms of combat gameplay I didn't like the stealth system at all, generally the AI wasn't impressive. I died plenty of times, but there never was a feeling of overcoming something after I cleared an area. Solid enough to entertain, but not something I long to go back to on even higher difficulty, which is a shame because I cherish Last of Us on Grounded difficulty as one of the best experiences I had on PS4.
Exploration was a letdown to me as well, first I felt like constantly breaking the urgency of the narrative when I strayed off the path, which wouldn't be too bad if finding treasure or journal entries would somehow have felt more meaningful. Due to the nature of the one and done chapter design of the game I never felt ambition of getting to know my surroundings, like I did in Tomb Raider for example, where one would revisit areas and find new passages.
So for what it was it was exceptionally well executed in some areas and I think it's well worth playing through. It's just not the type of game I would ever feel like coming back to again.
The artistic vision and the graphics are incredible, the narrative picked up in the second half and was well executed, but nothing too spectacular.
In terms of combat gameplay I didn't like the stealth system at all, generally the AI wasn't impressive. I died plenty of times, but there never was a feeling of overcoming something after I cleared an area. Solid enough to entertain, but not something I long to go back to on even higher difficulty, which is a shame because I cherish Last of Us on Grounded difficulty as one of the best experiences I had on PS4.
Exploration was a letdown to me as well, first I felt like constantly breaking the urgency of the narrative when I strayed off the path, which wouldn't be too bad if finding treasure or journal entries would somehow have felt more meaningful. Due to the nature of the one and done chapter design of the game I never felt ambition of getting to know my surroundings, like I did in Tomb Raider for example, where one would revisit areas and find new passages.
So for what it was it was exceptionally well executed in some areas and I think it's well worth playing through. It's just not the type of game I would ever feel like coming back to again.
I had problem in identifying the real motives of Rave as a villain and actually hate him.
Nadine inherited a lot of debt from her father so she is on the treasure hunt for the need of money so her motives are clear.
In the game, all of the main characters are thieves with a motive of getting really rich through exploiting ancient treasures, without any wavering to destroying the ancient ruins or of doing even murder if it came to achieving their goal.
Sam has no hesitation and pulls the trigger in the part where he held Nadine, before Nathan interrupts her killing by pushing his hand.
Drake brothers and Sally for example started life very poor and their motive was always profit.
Rave on the other hand was very rich from the beginning, with his only motive being the need to make his own fortune so the world does not see him as a rich offspring.
The only really normal person in this universe is Elena and even she in the end doesn't care for all the killing and uses parts of the treasure to live a rich and comfortable life.
So blood money does not affect her in the end.
In U4 we see that Rave finances the break into the Panamanian jail and what Nathan does when he finds the cross? He tries (unsuccessfully) to hide it from Rave.
After Nathan left Rafe to do the deeds of the first 3 games, Rafe did not retaliate or tried to punish Nathan and he continued his treasure search.
Then he helped Sam to get out of prison and that event happened two years before Sam found clues of the cross and then instantly betrayed Rafe and went on to find Nathan.
Obviously Rafe is a ruthless person, but so are Nathan and Sam, that betrayed Rafe in every opportunity they get.
So Rafe has every right to be angry with the brothers, but still he does not retaliate. With the resources he had he could easily take Elena as a hostage (or kill her) and get his revenge.
Instead he still tries to continue the treasure hunt through normal business means.
Anyway I am not convinced through the script that Rafe is the worst person of the bunch (or a villain like Lazarevic for example or the other bad guys in the series), I think that Sam by far did the biggest wrong to Nathan (in his whole life) and he deserved to die the most in the game.
The happy ending for all is a disappointment I think and something that you except from a Disney scenario.
They could do so many things to give a real closure to the Drake story and they went to the safest of the safe.
Watch Eye of Indra, where Nathan accepts money from another Rafe type character and accepts to find a treasure and betrays him in the first chance he gets (and even plans his murder).
And you will find the ending very interesting for Nathan as a character and his motives on how the scene is set for the first Uncharted.
Compare that Nathan with the Nathan of U4.
[link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doJ22VCEdxE[/link]
Nadine inherited a lot of debt from her father so she is on the treasure hunt for the need of money so her motives are clear.
In the game, all of the main characters are thieves with a motive of getting really rich through exploiting ancient treasures, without any wavering to destroying the ancient ruins or of doing even murder if it came to achieving their goal.
Sam has no hesitation and pulls the trigger in the part where he held Nadine, before Nathan interrupts her killing by pushing his hand.
Drake brothers and Sally for example started life very poor and their motive was always profit.
Rave on the other hand was very rich from the beginning, with his only motive being the need to make his own fortune so the world does not see him as a rich offspring.
The only really normal person in this universe is Elena and even she in the end doesn't care for all the killing and uses parts of the treasure to live a rich and comfortable life.
So blood money does not affect her in the end.
In U4 we see that Rave finances the break into the Panamanian jail and what Nathan does when he finds the cross? He tries (unsuccessfully) to hide it from Rave.
After Nathan left Rafe to do the deeds of the first 3 games, Rafe did not retaliate or tried to punish Nathan and he continued his treasure search.
Then he helped Sam to get out of prison and that event happened two years before Sam found clues of the cross and then instantly betrayed Rafe and went on to find Nathan.
Obviously Rafe is a ruthless person, but so are Nathan and Sam, that betrayed Rafe in every opportunity they get.
So Rafe has every right to be angry with the brothers, but still he does not retaliate. With the resources he had he could easily take Elena as a hostage (or kill her) and get his revenge.
Instead he still tries to continue the treasure hunt through normal business means.
Anyway I am not convinced through the script that Rafe is the worst person of the bunch (or a villain like Lazarevic for example or the other bad guys in the series), I think that Sam by far did the biggest wrong to Nathan (in his whole life) and he deserved to die the most in the game.
The happy ending for all is a disappointment I think and something that you except from a Disney scenario.
They could do so many things to give a real closure to the Drake story and they went to the safest of the safe.
Watch Eye of Indra, where Nathan accepts money from another Rafe type character and accepts to find a treasure and betrays him in the first chance he gets (and even plans his murder).
And you will find the ending very interesting for Nathan as a character and his motives on how the scene is set for the first Uncharted.
Compare that Nathan with the Nathan of U4.
[link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doJ22VCEdxE[/link]
Deckard Chapel
Banned
This.
I feel like if I ever met Nolan North, in the back of my mind I would feel like I was also actually meeting Nathan Drake. I know that is silly nonsense, but there it is.
Be sure to give an update once you are done with it.
How old are you guys? I'm asking because I totally agree with the 'tacked on multiplayer' comments you guys made and you kind of link that to age.
Ascenion
Member
Agree.
The ending is the main thing that ruins the payoff. You think there is risk and that what is happening actually matters but no. Nate gets away clean. In no world should Nathan Drake be rich, living on a beach happy and healthy after everything he's done. No one should've left that boat alive. I honestly couldn't believe the ending as I was seeing it. There is such a thing as too perfect. Although I do have to say it did fit the general UC tone. The rest of the game on the whole didn't. But the ending did, it's as if the ending came from a different draft.
I like the irony.
I hope that you are enjoying yourself with all the modern AAA games express their higher gameplay moments as mashes of the Action button.
Here is the prophecy and have some humor lol:
[link]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6McMaGsn1Yc[/link]
That is the evolution of modern gameplay mechanics and what AAA game designers give us for full price.
If you don’t mash enough the action button you get a failed state, the door stays closed and you don’t progress with the game.
That’s the definition of a QTE
MaybeBurger
Banned
Give it up man. You're so wrong its not funny.
Just because there isn't great loss/death at the end doesn't mean it wasn't an appropriate or "easy" ending that is tonally inconsistent. The entire game is about lying to yourself and others, not accepting who you truly are and closing that off to those around you, literally exemplified by the founders of Libertalia walling themselves off from their followers, and then the bodies of Avery and Tew surrounded by treasure and nothing else, having ultimately turned on each other.
In the end, the primary characters, Nate, Elena, and Sam, all come to see how they've been hurting those around them with their dishonesty and withholding, how their actions have been selfish. Nate and Elena, together, elect to stop the dangerous treasure hunting, but they both also accept that them trying to pretend to have "normal" lives isn't truly what they want either, so they both compromise on a less dangerous form of what they enjoy. The key aspect of that being they chose together and were honest with each other. Sam also realizes the harm in his lies and trying to selfishly pull his brother back into the "adventure." He accepts that his needs are different than Nate's, and understands he doesn't need to bond with him in that way, and seeks out an alternate way to fulfill his desires. This shows pretty dramatic growth for all the characters.
Looking at all of this, the loss actually comes in the characters deciding to forgo the dangerous globetrotting, legally shaky adventures they've all been going on together. That's the loss. It's a "happy" ending that is earned through the completion of the character arcs, is very human and adult on all fronts, and it's entirely tonally and thematically consistent.
In the end, the primary characters, Nate, Elena, and Sam, all come to see how they've been hurting those around them with their dishonesty and withholding, how their actions have been selfish. Nate and Elena, together, elect to stop the dangerous treasure hunting, but they both also accept that them trying to pretend to have "normal" lives isn't truly what they want either, so they both compromise on a less dangerous form of what they enjoy. The key aspect of that being they chose together and were honest with each other. Sam also realizes the harm in his lies and trying to selfishly pull his brother back into the "adventure." He accepts that his needs are different than Nate's, and understands he doesn't need to bond with him in that way, and seeks out an alternate way to fulfill his desires. This shows pretty dramatic growth for all the characters.
Looking at all of this, the loss actually comes in the characters deciding to forgo the dangerous globetrotting, legally shaky adventures they've all been going on together. That's the loss. It's a "happy" ending that is earned through the completion of the character arcs, is very human and adult on all fronts, and it's entirely tonally and thematically consistent.
You guys are also proving Druckmann's notion the ending would be divisive as true.
harrisk954
Member
Start a new game with all statistics carried over, play the prologue and exit out. Go to chapter select, play the Epilogue. Success.
semiconscious
Member
That seems like another term you need to look up.I like the irony.
But then again you did look up QTE and still wrote your list of examples that don't fit that definition anyway. So maybe don't look it up and eat some ice cream?
His motivations weren't anything spectacular, true. But there's enough there from the first time you meet him to know he ain't right, and it makes sense the Drakes would want distance.
Nadine is definitely as sinister to me. Her motivation makes sense. But to me, Sam willing to take her out only shows he's willing to do what Nate never is, but even that was to save them...not because he's anywhere near the levl of rafe in ruthlessness. It's a kill or be killed thing.. Nadine was and is willing to kill them at any point. They went out of their way to avoid her more than once.
Yeah, they are all thieves, but no, not all of them are willing to straight up murder. Especially Nate. Sure he kills hordes of goons, but it's mercenaries set out to kill him. Still not in the league of Rafe who has set those players in motion. But you need no other evidence that he's a piece of trash than the end, where his character has the opportunity to redeem himself by working with them to escape, and instead wants to just gut Nate. He becomes maniacal for being thwarted and ...jealousy, I guess.
Also, I don't remember Nate hiding the cross from Rafe. My memory must be going. I only remember him hiding it from the Prison dude.
Nadine is definitely as sinister to me. Her motivation makes sense. But to me, Sam willing to take her out only shows he's willing to do what Nate never is, but even that was to save them...not because he's anywhere near the levl of rafe in ruthlessness. It's a kill or be killed thing.. Nadine was and is willing to kill them at any point. They went out of their way to avoid her more than once.
Yeah, they are all thieves, but no, not all of them are willing to straight up murder. Especially Nate. Sure he kills hordes of goons, but it's mercenaries set out to kill him. Still not in the league of Rafe who has set those players in motion. But you need no other evidence that he's a piece of trash than the end, where his character has the opportunity to redeem himself by working with them to escape, and instead wants to just gut Nate. He becomes maniacal for being thwarted and ...jealousy, I guess.
Also, I don't remember Nate hiding the cross from Rafe. My memory must be going. I only remember him hiding it from the Prison dude.