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Uncharted 4: A Thief's End |OT| You're gonna miss this ass

R

Ricky_R

Member
joms5 said:
That's why it would be interesting to see a poll. I don't know if those who didn't like it are being extra vocal or if more people are just finally completing it now and being disappointed. It seems that those who are completing it later are also admitting to having a hard time getting through it.

Someone make a poll. Please. :)
Click to expand...

Primethius said:
joms5 said:
A poll would be a good, more accurate barometer. I'm just reporting my observations having read most of the thread since it's inception. Large amounts of praise worthy posts are simply one liners "that was amazing" or "masterpiece" where as the people who didn't enjoy the game as much (or at all) had much longer posts and subsequently, longer discussions with other posters.
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You guys need a quote expert?
Click to expand...
 
C

Comrade Crunch

Member
joms5 said:
How could you not pay attention to it? That's all this game had. And a mediocre one at that.

But ultimately I don't buy the fact that Nate and Elena talking it over was enough to make him realize it. The guy was obsessed with finding treasure. He was like an addict. As an addict you need to hit rock bottom to change your ways.

And let's just say for argument sake that you're right and he had changed his ways through having a talk.
You don't think that Nate losing his brother to the same thing he was so obsessed over would have really put everything into perspective. Hell forget about Nate for a second. Why does Sam even get to live? He lies to his brother, puts his life in danger and gets to walk away to only go back to that same life? It makes no sense to reward someone like that for poor decisions, no matter if it's family or not.
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Nate wasn't obsessed with the treasure though, Sam was, he'd basically pushed it out of his mind when Sam came back. It was also pretty clear that Nate wasn't in it for the treasure from the get go, he liked returning to the life, but his main concern was his brother.

Sam lives because he already did his time, 15 years in a Panamanian prison for a murder he didn't commit. There was a specific scene towards the end where he says something like "I have to know," he's spent a third if his life in prison because of this treasure, I think he wanted closure more than anything else.

People don't change willy nilly, the fact that he didn't do a 180 was great, he's still a liar and a thief, but he's Nates brother.
 
R

Ricky_R

Member
Primethius said:
I got it. I figured out the internet!

Edit: Think I edited out the spoilers. Let me know if I missed some. And apologies.
Click to expand...

Thanks. No apologies needed, I was the one who messed up.

Lys Skygge said:
Done. Totally didn't even think of spoilers haha. By the way, when is it usually safe to start discussing spoilers openly? A few weeks? Months? Years?
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Haha, not sure. I do think it's too early to be talking about the ending. Maybe I'm wrong.
 
R

RespectThySole

Member
curb said:
When it comes to the ending, it reminds me of how I approached the ending of LOST which I found wasn't very intellectually satisfying as there were gaps and unanswered questions but I found it to have a very emotionally satisfying conclusion. For me, that wins out. Yes, you can pick UC4's ending apart all you want but in the end, it just made me feel happy and as such, I loved it.
Click to expand...

You felt happy because it was "Nate's last ride" after everything he went through in the previous games. I doubt it had much to do with the actual ending being able to stand on it's own as satisfying within in the framework of the game itself. You might not take issue with it as I do, but it's just a regular safe ending. Not anything memorable.
 
C

Curufinwe

Member
Alienous said:
Why? Because it's the kind of ending someone in a boardroom would pitch because it tests well with audiences? It's inoffensive, it isn't complex.
Click to expand...

It's hilarious that you think this ending was the result of focus testing. Being in the minority really drives some people deep into irrationality.
 
C

Comrade Crunch

Member
RespectThySole said:
You felt happy because it was "Nate's last ride" after everything he went through in the previous games. I doubt it had much to do with the actual ending being able to stand on it's own as satisfying within in the framework of the game itself. You might not take issue with it as I do, but it's just a regular safe ending. Not anything memorable.
Click to expand...

Just because an ending is safe, it doesn't mean it isn't memorable, I think the ending definitely stands on its own because it's the perfect way to say goodbye to the characters for this sort of game. They didn't need to have some big twist or fake out ending, just give the main characters a happy life.
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Comrade Crunch said:
Nate wasn't obsessed with the treasure though, Sam was, he'd basically pushed it out of his mind when Sam came back. It was also pretty clear that Nate wasn't in it for the treasure from the get go, he liked returning to the life, but his main concern was his brother.

Sam lives because he already did his time, 15 years in a Panamanian prison for a murder he didn't commit. There was a specific scene towards the end where he says something like "I have to know," he's spent a third if his life in prison because of this treasure, I think he wanted closure more than anything else.

People don't change willy nilly, the fact that he didn't do a 180 was great, he's still a liar and a thief, but he's Nates brother.
Click to expand...
Comrade Crunch said:
Just because an ending is safe, it doesn't mean it isn't memorable, I think the ending definitely stands on its own because it's the perfect way to say goodbye to the characters for this sort of game. They didn't need to have some big twist or fake out ending, just give the main characters a happy life.
Click to expand...


This guy gets it.
 
K

Kaswa101

Member
RespectThySole said:
You felt happy because it was "Nate's last ride" after everything he went through in the previous games. I doubt it had much to do with the actual ending being able to stand on it's own as satisfying within in the framework of the game itself. You might not take issue with it as I do, but it's just a regular safe ending. Not anything memorable.
Click to expand...

Not every ending has to be risky, unconventional or ambiguous to be memorable. Nor does it have to be controversial.
A happy ending was always supposed to happen, because that's just what Uncharted is. And I've seen no decent argument made in this thread to actually justify why a certain character would have to die, other than for shock factor or making the ending "memorable".

And personally, yes, the ending stood on its own just fine for me. I didn't believe for a second that Sam, or Elena, in particular, "deserved" to die, just for the sake of Nate learning a lesson. That'd be terrible writing, and a horrible ending to a series that was never supposed to be incredibly deep to begin with. :/
 
X

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Kaswa101 said:
Not every ending has to be risky, unconventional or ambiguous to be memorable. Nor does it have to be controversial.
A happy ending was always supposed to happen, because that's just what Uncharted is. And I've seen no decent argument made in this thread to actually justify why a certain character would have to die, other than for shock factor or making the ending "memorable".

And personally, yes, the ending stood on its own just fine for me. I didn't believe for a second that Sam, or Elena, in particular, "deserved" to die, just for the sake of Nate learning a lesson. That'd be terrible writing, and a horrible ending to a series that was never supposed to be incredibly deep to begin with. :/
Click to expand...

It's like people didn't play the other Uncharted games and just assumed
that there should be a death because of the shock factor and the title A Thief's End.
 
R

RespectThySole

Member
Comrade Crunch said:
Just because an ending is safe, it doesn't mean it isn't memorable, I think the ending definitely stands on its own because it's the perfect way to say goodbye to the characters for this sort of game. They didn't need to have some big twist or fake out ending, just give the main characters a happy life.
Click to expand...

As someone who wasn't satisfied with the way this game was structured, a straightforward ending simply isn't enough to lessen the blow. The perfect ending just makes me wish for an "Uncharted 2 sequel." If they wanted to do the whole good guys always win as usual, they should've just given us the whole shebang that comes along with it instead of this dreary story. Forget the "grounded" setpieces and just go all out for the last Uncharted game with stuff like the volcano setpiece. Ones with shootouts not just more mindless climbing like with the collapsing tower and the others except for Chapter 11. Inject the humor and fun characters back into the game. Let Alcazar join in on the fun in the third act instead of saying that Sam lied!

Kaswa101 said:
Not every ending has to be risky, unconventional or ambiguous to be memorable. Nor does it have to be controversial.
A happy ending was always supposed to happen, because that's just what Uncharted is. And I've seen no decent argument made in this thread to actually justify why a certain character would have to die, other than for shock factor or making the ending "memorable".

And personally, yes, the ending stood on its own just fine for me. I didn't believe for a second that Sam, or Elena, in particular, "deserved" to die, just for the sake of Nate learning a lesson. That'd be terrible writing, and a horrible ending to a series that was never supposed to be incredibly deep to begin with. :/
Click to expand...

See above.
 
C

Comrade Crunch

Member
RespectThySole said:
As someone who wasn't satisfied with the way this game was structured, a straightforward ending simply isn't enough to lessen the blow. The perfect ending just makes me wish for an "Uncharted 2 sequel." If they wanted to do the whole good guys always win as usual, they should've just given us the whole shebang that comes along with it instead of this dreary story. Forget the "grounded" setpieces and just go all out for the last Uncharted game with stuff like the volcano setpiece. Inject the humor and fun characters back into the game. Let Alcazar join in on the fun in the third act instead of saying that Sam lied!
Click to expand...

I think we had two totally different experiences in how we interpreted this game and consumed its content.

We are definitely not going to come to an understanding. Might be a good idea to agree to disagree.
 
C

curb

Banned
RespectThySole said:
You felt happy because it was "Nate's last ride" after everything he went through in the previous games. I doubt it had much to do with the actual ending being able to stand on it's own as satisfying within in the framework of the game itself. You might not take issue with it as I do, but it's just a regular safe ending. Not anything memorable.
Click to expand...

That could be but I was also happy with the conclusion even
before the epilogue which to me is the real final stamp on "Nate's last ride".
 
Andrew Korenchkin

Andrew Korenchkin

Member
I loved this game (obviously), but there is one thing I didn't like.

I disliked the fact that there was so little of Captain Avery's mansion to explore. It was too ruined for my taste, too. I wanted to explore rooms upon rooms of his mansion!
 
A

Alienous

Member
Curufinwe said:
It's hilarious that you think this ending was the result of focus testing. Being in the minority really drives some people deep into irrationality.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was the result of focus testing, just that it was the kind of ending that would result from focus testing. That it serves the same purpose of not being challenging or meaningful but to be a nice looking, vapid bow to wrap the series in.

I don't mind having a minority opinion on this. I'm just trying to be honest to how I feel about it.
 
N

Neiteio

Member
Spring-Loaded said:
Why didn't they have a crate pushing setpiece? Like, you're pushing another boring-ass crate with wheels over to a wall and suddenly the floor collapses and you're rolling down a hill while Shoreline dudes are chasing after you on their own crates, all culminating with a sequence in which you have to grappling-hook onto Crate while you both swing around on a cliff face
Click to expand...
PLOT TWIST:

Each crate you used along the way? The treasure was inside them the whole time.
 
O

orthodoxy1095

Banned
Remember that there was a sizable minority of people that thought TLOU's ending was unsatisfying and didn't like it as well

I think Uncharted 4 will go down in history as one of the best endings for a franchise.
 
J

joms5

Member
xxracerxx said:
This guy gets it.
Click to expand...

Translation: This guy has the same opinion I do.

Kaswa101 said:
Not every ending has to be risky, unconventional or ambiguous to be memorable. Nor does it have to be controversial.
A happy ending was always supposed to happen, because that's just what Uncharted is. And I've seen no decent argument made in this thread to actually justify why a certain character would have to die, other than for shock factor or making the ending "memorable".

And personally, yes, the ending stood on its own just fine for me. I didn't believe for a second that Sam, or Elena, in particular, "deserved" to die, just for the sake of Nate learning a lesson. That'd be terrible writing, and a horrible ending to a series that was never supposed to be incredibly deep to begin with. :/
Click to expand...

You are absolutely right about what i've bolded. But when the entire tone of the game from beginning to end has
this dire undercurrent that keeps telling the player "there must be consequences" how can you possibly not understand when players aren't given that. It's a bait and switch.
I mean I was more than happy with the happy endings of Uncharted 1,2 and 3 for that matter. They all ended perfectly. But the tone of this game was completely different. It wasn't the bombastic popcorn flick that the other games were. I felt that the ending it was given just didn't mesh with the rest of the game. And clearly i'm not in the minority.
Also it's not about teaching Nathan a lesson as much as it solidifies that point, that there are more important things in life than winning. Family, friends and everything that goes along with that aren't worth risking.

The only reason I keep saying that Sam should have ate it, is because as a character he's disposable. He was made up for this one game in particular. His history with Nate is questionable at best and he clearly doesn't care for Nate's well being even when he realizes the effect it's having on those who care about Nate. (both Sully and Elena). They do this in stories all the time. The heroes friend/loved one who has wrong them in the past, atones for their past transgressions by making the ultimate sacrifice and giving their life for their loved one. It's not terrible writing. It's brilliant.

I think if I had to point out a fault with the ending that people are having, it's just that it doesn't fit with the tone of the rest of the game.
 
M

MegaSackman

Member
Most people happy with the game come and go, those dissapointed are statying the most because well... they're dissapointed and still can't believe things turned out the way it did.

I'm pretty sure there's a huge amount of people that's in love with the game, ending, gameplay, story and stuff, they just don't discuss it anymore.
 
L

Lys Skygge

Member
orthodoxy1095 said:
Remember that there was a sizable minority of people that thought TLOU's ending was unsatisfying and didn't like it as well

I think Uncharted 4 will go down in history as one of the best endings for a franchise.
Click to expand...
I agree.
Most franchises fuck up their ending (books, movies, television included) by being too messy and complicated. You can call it safe, but overall, Uncharted had a satisfying ending. It reminded me of Breaking Bads ending; it was a bit unexpected after hearing a lot of crazy theories, only for everything to end a bit too perfectly, but it was extremely satisfying.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
orthodoxy1095 said:
Remember that there was a sizable minority of people that thought TLOU's ending was unsatisfying and didn't like it as well

I think Uncharted 4 will go down in history as one of the best endings for a franchise.
Click to expand...

I can't even think of another beloved narrative heavy franchise that had a good ending. Like, I guess a few people like how MGS4 went out...

Edit: oh duh Witcher 3 but I haven't actually gotten to it yet
 
M

m4st4

Member
OT 2 should hit around the DLC time and when they reveal it's Chloe and Cutter, along with Sam and Sully, it should be called 'Did you miss me?'
 
J

joms5

Member
Fancy Clown said:
I can't even think of another beloved narrative heavy franchise that had a good ending. Like, I guess a few people like how MGS4 went out...

Edit: oh duh Witcher 3 but I haven't actually gotten to it yet
Click to expand...

Does it have to be a franchise ending? That get's a bit messy when you know there was an intended ending to a series of games but then they made more later, ala Resident Evil 3.

But then there's Portal. Did anyone complain about that?
 
D

Darryl M R

Member
I finally beat the game. It was a fun ride. Going to play some of the MP before I switch over to my backlog (probably MGS V next then Dark Souls 3).

Is it expected that UC4 MP will have legs?
 
L

Lys Skygge

Member
Darryl M R said:
I finally beat the game. It was a fun ride. Going to play some of the MP before I switch over to my backlog (probably MGS V next then Dark Souls 3).

Is it expected that UC4 MP will have legs?
Click to expand...
The previous Uncharted games had long legs when it came to multiplayer. So I don't see why this won't either.
 
Ascenion

Ascenion

Member
Fancy Clown said:
I can't even think of another beloved narrative heavy franchise that had a good ending. Like, I guess a few people like how MGS4 went out...

Edit: oh duh Witcher 3 but I haven't actually gotten to it yet
Click to expand...

Do you mean good or happy? Those are two different things and I personally think only one applies to UC4. Witcher 3 has multiple endings mind you.
 
R

RespectThySole

Member
joms5 said:
Translation: This guy has the same opinion I do.



You are absolutely right about what i've bolded. But when the entire tone of the game from beginning to end has
this dire undercurrent that keeps telling the player "there must be consequences" how can you possibly not understand when players aren't given that. It's a bait and switch.
I mean I was more than happy with the happy endings of Uncharted 1,2 and 3 for that matter. They all ended perfectly. But the tone of this game was completely different. It wasn't the bombastic popcorn flick that the other games were. I felt that the ending it was given just didn't mesh with the rest of the game. And clearly i'm not in the minority.
Also it's not about teaching Nathan a lesson as much as it solidifies that point, that there are more important things in life than winning. Family, friends and everything that goes along with that aren't worth risking.

The only reason I keep saying that Sam should have ate it, is because as a character he's disposable. He was made up for this one game in particular. His history with Nate is questionable at best and he clearly doesn't care for Nate's well being even when he realizes the effect it's having on those who care about Nate. (both Sully and Elena). They do this in stories all the time. The heroes friend/loved one who has wrong them in the past, atones for their past transgressions by making the ultimate sacrifice and giving their life for their loved one. It's not terrible writing. It's brilliant.

I think if I had to point out a fault with the ending that people are having, it's just that it doesn't fit with the tone of the rest of the game.
Click to expand...

Good post. I think the second poster you quoted is oblivious to why we dislike the ending. We're not saying that you must have some deep or crazy ending in order to be memorable. I didn't have a problem with any of the previous games' endings story-wise(or Breaking Bad for that matter). We're saying that the ending didn't fit what the game was going for as well as it should've. It's not that I don't understand the ending. I get it, but it just wasn't a satisfying conclusion within the context of the game.

No one said it was Mass Effect 3. The argument that some developers can't find good ways to end their franchises doesn't have any bearing on what I'm talking about either. The ending is fine in the context of the franchise, but UC4 wasn't structured like just another game in the franchise and I think it's entirely reasonable to have expected more from it due to this. Aside from The Witcher, most games known for their great stories are standalone experiences anyway.(at least that I can think of atm) I guess I can give them credit for not completely fucking it up(it's so safe and perfect that there's not much to argue over here), but they certainly didn't nail it either imo.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
Ascenion said:
Do you mean good or happy? Those are two different things and I personally think only one applies to UC4. Witcher 3 has multiple endings mind you.
Click to expand...

Good. I mean regardless of what you think of its quality, I thought that comment about it being one of the worst ends to a game franchise was silly becuase let's face it, there aren't that many that have even been good and Uncharted 4 certainly isn't one of the worst ones especially more narrative heavy games where there are basically no franchises that have comparable quality writing and storytelling.
 
Ascenion

Ascenion

Member
Fancy Clown said:
Good. I mean regardless of what you think of its quality, I thought that comment about it being one of the worst ends to a game franchise was silly becuase let's face it, there aren't that many that have even been good and Uncharted 4 certainly isn't one of the worst ones especially more narrative heavy games where there are basically no franchises that have comparable quality writing and storytelling.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's a great ending to the franchise should it actually stand to be that ending. Assuming there is an Uncharted 5 then it will go down as being too safe and tone wise inconsistent. None of the events in the game should've led to the ending we got. By itself it's fine, in context it doesn't work.
 
A

Alienous

Member
Just to get away from the ending discussion, how many people when you got to the E3 demo shooting section of the game turned to sock the dude as you exited the building before he could grab you?

It's so satisfying
.
 
C

Comrade Crunch

Member
Ascenion said:
I agree that it's a great ending to the franchise should it actually stand to be that ending. Assuming there is an Uncharted 5 then it will go down as being too safe and tone wise inconsistent. None of the events in the game should've led to the ending we got. By itself it's fine, in context it doesn't work.
Click to expand...

ND won't be the one who makes it, so even if there is a U5, it might as well not exist.
 
J

Jack Scofield

Member
Alienous said:
Just to get away from the ending discussion, how many people when you got to the E3 demo shooting section of the game turned to sock the dude as you exited the building before he could grab you?

It's so satisfying
.
Click to expand...

I've replayed this part like five times and the guy has never grabbed me. He just punches instead. I didn't even know that he could grab you until I watched the E3 gameplay afterwards.
 
Cracklox

Cracklox

Member
*scrolls down page as quick as possible*

So just got through chapter 11 and I think the game finally has my attention. That was an insane sequence at the end, and the cutscene afterwards was great. That look on Nates face when they got back, you knew exactly what he was seeing before we did

Anyways, have sort of forced myself a little to get to this point, but now I think I'm finally excited to keep going
 
J

joms5

Member
Cracklox said:
*scrolls down page as quick as possible*

So just got through chapter 11 and I think the game finally has my attention. That was an insane sequence at the end, and the cutscene afterwards was great. That look on Nates face when they got back, you knew exactly what he was seeing before we did

Anyways, have sort of forced myself a little to get to this point, but now I think I'm finally excited to keep going
Click to expand...

You're in for a treat. That's when the game really picks up.
 
N

Nesses

Member
After having never played an Uncharted game, I really enjoyed 4. Even though I had no history of the characters, it felt like I didn't need to play 1-3, but I'm going to go back and do it anyway.

Really had a connection with all the characters.
 
T

Trigonometrize.

Member
Ascenion said:
I agree that it's a great ending to the franchise should it actually stand to be that ending. Assuming there is an Uncharted 5 then it will go down as being too safe and tone wise inconsistent. None of the events in the game should've led to the ending we got. By itself it's fine, in context it doesn't work.
Click to expand...
This pretty much sums it up. If Uncharted 4 was as simple as Uncharted 2 the ending we got would've worked a lot better.

Nesses said:
After having never played an Uncharted game, I really enjoyed 4. Even though I had no history of the characters, it felt like I didn't need to play 1-3, but I'm going to go back and do it anyway.

Really had a connection with all the characters.
Click to expand...

Hopefully you haven't been spoiled by the mechanics of 4. The previous games play differently in a lot of ways/ You might not even recognize 1. The characters in all the games though are written well so you should have a fun time.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
Ascenion said:
I agree that it's a great ending to the franchise should it actually stand to be that ending. Assuming there is an Uncharted 5 then it will go down as being too safe and tone wise inconsistent. None of the events in the game should've led to the ending we got. By itself it's fine, in context it doesn't work.
Click to expand...

I don't think its an amazing ending but it absolutely capitulates on the themes built in the story, respects the characters and their development, and is consistant with the tone of the series. It's about as good of an ending as we could have hoped for imo, even if it doesn't open up the game to a wider conversation and analysis the way The Last of Us did.
 
B

BruceLeeRoy

Banned
Fancy Clown said:
I can't even think of another beloved narrative heavy franchise that had a good ending. Like, I guess a few people like how MGS4 went out...

Edit: oh duh Witcher 3 but I haven't actually gotten to it yet
Click to expand...

WC3 is amazing but it doesn't count cause the first two games are so bad

I just got to chapter 10.
You guys this game is so good
 
P

potatohead

Member
Nesses said:
After having never played an Uncharted game, I really enjoyed 4. Even though I had no history of the characters, it felt like I didn't need to play 1-3, but I'm going to go back and do it anyway.

Really had a connection with all the characters.
Click to expand...

Use the UC Collection, best versions easily of all the games, not just technically with 1080p60 and texture/model updates, but the gameplay is updated as well and the whole games just feel much better.
 
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