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[Valhelm]

I recall Littlefinger laying it out pretty clearly in that next Sansa chapter.

Yep. He gives a game-changing speech explaining that her hairnet carried the poison, and that he planned it with Olenna. Soon after, he described how in the Game of Thrones, Cersei is just a pawn, despite what she might think.

Sansa is somebody who has always been a pawn, but may end up asserting herself as a player.

 

[FootballFan]

Yep. He gives a game-changing speech explaining that her hairnet carried the poison, and that he planned it with Olenna. Soon after, he described how in the Game of Thrones, Cersei is just a pawn, despite what she might think.

Sansa is somebody who has always been a pawn, but may end up asserting herself as a player.

This is very likely. She will be groomed to play the game by LF, that will be his own undoing.

 

[negreenfield]

Oh snap. I still have my last Take the Black stout I was going to drink on Sunday but now I gotta run to Cost Plus World Market or Total Wine to get some of these too.

 

[Fey]

Is there really any doubt that it wasn't a ploy of Littlefinger and/or Olenna?

I've seen lots of crazy theories about it ... stuff like Tywin was involved and stuff.

 

[negreenfield]

I've seen lots of crazy theories about it ... stuff like Tywin was involved and stuff.

I don't see it too crazy to speculate Twyin was in out or knew about it. I personally think it's quite a stretch but it's an interesting speculation.

Does anyone have a guess who actually administered the poison? My thought has always been it has to be Margaery if we believe that Olenna and Littlefinger planned the thing.

 

[Forkball]

I don't see it too crazy to speculate Twyin was in out or knew about it. I personally think it's quite a stretch but it's an interesting speculation.

Does anyone have a guess who actually administered the poison? My thought has always been it has to be Margaery if we believe that Olenna and Littlefinger planned the thing.

The poison was in Sansa's hairnet. Olenna adjusts it, a gem/poison capsule falls out and into the wine. Foreshadowed by the whole "vipers in her hair" thing.

Or it was Bloodraven.

 

[FootballFan]

The poison was in Sansa's hairnet. Olenna adjusts it, a gem/poison capsule falls out and into the wine. Foreshadowed by the whole "vipers in her hair" thing.

Or it was Bloodraven.

It's always Brynden Rivers.

 

[DrForester]

I've seen lots of crazy theories about it ... stuff like Tywin was involved and stuff.

I have a tough time deciding if Tywin had a hand in it. I have no doubt he was happy it happened though. It allowed him to be rid of Tyrion and Joffrey, who would have possibly led to the downfall of House Lannister.

 

[Dany]

The show has Margery being more mischievous than the books. I don't believe she is in on it in either cases. Her grandmother orchestrated it all. But does it explicitly say that littlefinger had a ...finger in that too?

 

[Layell]

I can't say I'd agree Tywin was in on Joff's death, he still had that huge concern that Tyrion hadn't laid one in on Sansa. He wouldn't do anything half as dumb as let his key to holding the North for the future slip away so easily.

The more interesting Tywin and poison theory is that the Red Viper was slipping him some before the trial by combat which explains the corpse smell and privy. Part of me doubts we will see this Oberyn do the deed on the show but if we get a hint at some point I'd be quite pleased.

 

[Speevy]

Does Joffrey mistreat Margaery in the books? That's something they're clearly leaving out if so.

 

[demosthenes]

Does Joffrey mistreat Margaery in the books? That's something they're clearly leaving out if so.

Not at the time of his death. He doesn't have power over her with all of her family around.

 

[PhoenixDark]

There was someone in the horrible casting choices thread who said that Roose Bolton's casting made him angry. I love Michael McElhatton as Roose, but is he considered as a bad casting choice among the more passionate book fans??

I honestly thought everyone loved him in the role, so I was a bit surprised.

I think he's great. Folks upset are probably mad he's not like book Roose, who has a significantly less commanding presence than McElhatton. I like the television version, and I also believe he maintains a good deal of book Roose's emotionless persona.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mARxnPzKDg

 

[Speevy]

Another stupid question...IMDB has Richard Madden listed as uncredited for Mhysa, where is he in the episode?

Is he actually wearing a wolf head or something?

 

[SuperAndroid17]

Another stupid question...IMDB has Richard Madden listed as uncredited for Mhysa, where is he in the episode?

Is he actually wearing a wolf head or something?

The intro recap lol

 

[Supermanisdead]

ygritte's actress is perfect.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

ygritte's actress is perfect.

Ugh she really is. Too bad she's leaving

 

[Speevy]

yeh now nowthun dum show

 

[bodyofanamerican]

I think he's great. Folks upset are probably mad he's not like book Roose, who has a significantly less commanding presence than McElhatton. I like the television version, and I also believe he maintains a good deal of book Roose's emotionless persona.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mARxnPzKDg

Yup. Show Roose is fantastic. Cannot wait for the dynamic between him and Ramsay this season.

Did the rest of you get the whole "craves the love and approval of his father" from book Ramsay? I always took it as him seeing Roose as a power greater than him and someone he has to respect vs someone whose approval he desperately wanted.

 

[Fuzzy]

Yup. Show Roose is fantastic. Cannot wait for the dynamic between him and Ramsay this season.

Did the rest of you get the whole "craves the love and approval of his father" from book Ramsay? I always took it as him seeing Roose as a power greater than him and someone he has to respect vs someone whose approval he desperately wanted.

I think Ramsay would kill Roose to take his position in a heartbeat if he could.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Another stupid question...IMDB has Richard Madden listed as uncredited for Mhysa, where is he in the episode?

Is he actually wearing a wolf head or something?

His body is, just not his head!

It's just IMDB being IMDB, he's not credited nor appears in the episode.

 

[Valhelm]

I realized today that Lysa probably raped Littlefinger? That being, when she had sex with him the first time, he was so drunk that when she started undressing him, he thought she was Catelyn.

This is why he insists that he "had Cat's maidenhood". He truly believes having sex with a teenaged Catelyn, because he thinks he remembers it.

 

[DrForester]

I think Ramsay would kill Roose to take his position in a heartbeat if he could.

Pretty much. I don't think Ramsay is one to respect anyone. He fears his Father and knows any challenge to him will go badly. If anything he resents that he can't do anything to Roose

 

[Valhelm]

Ugh she really is. Too bad she's leaving

I didn't get Ygritte's death. It was moving, but the story could have been helped by her survival. She was a really valuable link between the North and the Wildlings that could have been very valuable in Dance and beyond.

 

[FootballFan]

Would have loved it if Robb had warged Grey Wind, and it got away from The Twins.

Then later on in the series when the northerners look for a way to punish Roose for his part in the RW, they send him out nude to be feasted upon by a pack of wolves. The pack is lead by a monstrous direwolf with a grey coat of course. Roose makes the connection, the end.

But no, GRRM had to have them both die. I really liked Grey Wind, such a badass beast.

 

[Herr K]

I didn't get Ygritte's death. It was moving, but the story could have been helped by her survival. She was a really valuable link between the North and the Wildlings that could have been very valuable in Dance and beyond.

We got Val <3

 

[Valhelm]

We got Val <3

I really hope we see more of Val and Wun Wun.

Spoiler

My secret hope is for Val, Alys, and Sigorn to lead Jon into the Land of Thenn, where they find the real Horn of Joramun and call the dragons to Westeros.

 

[FootballFan]

I really hope we see more of Val and Wun Wun.

Spoiler

My secret hope is for Val, Alys, and Sigorn to lead Jon into the Land of Thenn, where they find the real Horn of Joramun and call the dragons to Westeros.

I felt that the horn was so unnecessary to the plot. Really did not like it from the first instance I learned what it was capable of. I don't even know why per se.


P.S. They should have kept some of the episode titles, such as 'The North Remembers' for later episodes in the series.

 

[kris.]

I felt that the horn was so unnecessary to the plot. Really did not like it from the first instance I learned what it was capable of. I don't even know why per se.

it just seems like a really silly idea to me. like yeah there's magic in the world but it's in fairly limited supply and then you have this massive horn that with just one blow takes down a giant 700 foot tall wall of ice? i dunno. it's always annoyed me a little.

 

[Loke13]

it just seems like a really silly idea to me. like yeah there's magic in the world but it's in fairly limited supply and then you have this massive horn that with just one blow takes down a giant 700 foot tall wall of ice? i dunno. it's always annoyed me a little.

Maybe I'm in the minority but that sounds pretty fucking amazing I mean this is a fantasy I would expect some aspects of magic to really ramp up towards the end of the series.

 

[Speevy]

I know it sounds a bit silly, but could they ever use a faceless man to fake someone's death?

 

[FootballFan]

Maybe I'm in the minority but that sounds pretty fucking amazing I mean this is a fantasy I would expect some aspects of magic to really ramp up towards the end of the series.

But not one object which can potentially decide which way the war goes depending on who blows or does not blow(ie destroys) it. It should not even exist.

 

[Herr K]

I know it sounds a bit silly, but could they ever use a faceless man to fake someone's death?

Faceless men have to wear the faces of the dead

Spoiler

, iirc.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

So is there going to be a dancing bear or what?

 

[Fuzzy]

So is there going to be a dancing bear or what?

Will Penny and her brother show up? If they don't does that mean she's cut from the show entirely (ADwD)?

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

Will Penny and her brother show up? If they don't does that mean she's cut from the show entirely (ADwD)?

While reading ADWD I was wondering how they'd play it out on the show, I guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks. But with no casting on that front mentioned it leads me to believe it will be ignored.

 

[Fuzzy]

While reading ADWD I was wondering how they'd play it out on the show, I guess we'll find out in a couple of weeks. But with no casting on that front mentioned it leads me to believe it will be ignored.

She can always blame Tyrion for her brother's death because he's mistaken for him. It would just be nice to have that her introduced for us to look forward to her in the future. I don't hate her like some people do.

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

She can always blame Tyrion for her brother's death because he's mistaken for him. It would just be nice to have that her introduced for us to look forward to her in the future. I don't hate her like some people do.

Yeah, that could work. While I really don't care for Tyrion's ADWD storyline, I don't blame Penny for that and I appreciate some of the feelings she causes Tyrion to feel. And my saddest death in ADWD was her doggy.

 

[Cornballer]

- Onion A|V Club on S4

But the good outweighs the bad. Game Of Thrones was and is an astonishing achievement—a vast web of world-building and map-reading and politicking in made-up languages, while still relying on the close-up camera shot of a single actor’s face to draw the most drama out of a scene. That is still a marvel, and even while in the weeds, the results are still thrilling. A-

 

[Forkball]

GRRM confirmed the wedding will have "entertainment." He wrote the episode too, so I think the dwarves will be included. I want the bear though.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Forgot the poster from today.

"The Bear and the Maiden Fair"

 

[Zabka]

it just seems like a really silly idea to me. like yeah there's magic in the world but it's in fairly limited supply and then you have this massive horn that with just one blow takes down a giant 700 foot tall wall of ice? i dunno. it's always annoyed me a little.

No more silly than the magic barrier around the wall that keeps the White Walkers out.

It could just be another "Stallion that Mounts the World", but I get the feeling that the wall's gotta come down somehow. A giant magic horn to destroy a giant magic ice wall seems appropriate to me.

 

[Fuzzy]

No more silly than the magic barrier around the wall that keeps the White Walkers out.

It could just be another "Stallion that Mounts the World", but I get the feeling that the wall's gotta come down somehow. A giant magic horn to destroy a giant magic ice wall seems appropriate to me.

The horn is just GRRM ripping off the Bible's Battle of Jericho.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

Forgot the poster from today.

"The Bear and the Maiden Fair"

That's actually beautiful.

 

[Kain]

I realized today that Lysa probably raped Littlefinger? That being, when she had sex with him the first time, he was so drunk that when she started undressing him, he thought she was Catelyn.

This is why he insists that he "had Cat's maidenhood". He truly believes having sex with a teenaged Catelyn, because he thinks he remembers it.

Eeeeeeeeee I don't know. He definitely mistook Lysa for Cat that time, but I always thought him saying he took Cat's maidenhood was wishful thinking. Trying to delude himself he did it, but knowing it was a lie or something. He was never very rational where Cat was involved after all.

 

[Forkball]

- Onion A|V Club on S4

They make it sound like the Purple Wedding episode will be amazing. He seems a bit mopey about the slowness of the series after SoS than focusing on what works and what doesn't with the season.

Also, recently I went through a round in the Game of Thrones mod for Crusader Kings II. I started in the Clash of Kings scenario (as everyone's favorite character DARKSTAR) that takes place near the beginning of ACoK and quit at 350AL (50 years after ACoK). The mod doesn't work now with the recent CKII update so I can't pull up specific details, but there were a few amusing things and alternate scenarios that played out:

Robb Stark loses his independence war when Balon invades. North becomes vassals to the Iron Islands. Balon reigns as King of the Iron Islands and the North for quite a while until he dies a natural death and Theon takes over. Robb dies a natural death about 30 years later. The Iron Islands manage to conquer the Vale for a while and Victarion is Lord of the Vale for a brief time. They fail an invasion of Dorne though. Near the end, the Greyjoys are usurped by some other family and lose the title of King of the Iron Islands, but they are still hold the Kingdom in the North.

Stannis is defeated by Joffrey, but lives out the rest of his life on Dragonstone. Joffrey reigns for about 10 years until Aegon VI attacks and takes the throne from Joffrey. Joffrey rules over the Stormlands until he is mysteriously assassinated, and then Tommen is in charge.

Aegon VI marries Dany, who dies at the age of 26 from the bloody flux. The Iron Throne also controls Meereen. Aegon strips the Tyrells of Highgarden and gives it to someone else. Aegon later remarries and his heir, Aegon VII, takes over when he dies after reigning for about 30 years.

Tywin dies a natural death in 300AL. Tyrion takes over the Westerlands. Jamie has a rather crazy adventure, from being in the Kingsguard, to being a prisoner in Dorne, to eventually ruling the Westerlands. He has a daughter with some random girl named Sabrina Lannister. After the child Aegon VII becomes king, Sabrina Lannister and her allies wage a war for the throne and win. Aegon VII rules over Dorne, clamoring for his throne.

Wildlings defeat the Nights Watch and take over the wall, but don't push past the Gift. Jon Snow dies naturally after doing nothing. NW eventually retake the wall.

Loras becomes the leader of the Kingsguard and slays a dragon.

Darkstar (me) kills Sweetrobin in battle after the Iron Islands invade Dorne.

There, just saved everyone 3,000 pages worth of reading.

 

[Loke13]

They make it sound like the Purple Wedding episode will be amazing. He seems a bit mopey about the slowness of the series after SoS than focusing on what works and what doesn't with the season.

Also, recently I went through a round in the Game of Thrones mod for Crusader Kings II. I started in the Clash of Kings scenario (as everyone's favorite character DARKSTAR) that takes place near the beginning of ACoK and quit at 350AL (50 years after ACoK). The mod doesn't work now with the recent CKII update so I can't pull up specific details, but there were a few amusing things and alternate scenarios that played out:

Robb Stark loses his independence war when Balon invades. North becomes vassals to the Iron Islands. Balon reigns as King of the Iron Islands and the North for quite a while until he dies a natural death and Theon takes over. Robb dies a natural death about 30 years later. The Iron Islands manage to conquer the Vale for a while and Victarion is Lord of the Vale for a brief time. They fail an invasion of Dorne though. Near the end, the Greyjoys are usurped by some other family and lose the title of King of the Iron Islands, but they are still hold the Kingdom in the North.

Stannis is defeated by Joffrey, but lives out the rest of his life on Dragonstone. Joffrey reigns for about 10 years until Aegon VI attacks and takes the throne from Joffrey. Joffrey rules over the Stormlands until he is mysteriously assassinated, and then Tommen is in charge.

Aegon VI marries Dany, who dies at the age of 26 from the bloody flux. The Iron Throne also controls Meereen. Aegon strips the Tyrells of Highgarden and gives it to someone else. Aegon later remarries and his heir, Aegon VII, takes over when he dies after reigning for about 30 years.

Tywin dies a natural death in 300AL. Tyrion takes over the Westerlands. Jamie has a rather crazy adventure, from being in the Kingsguard, to being a prisoner in Dorne, to eventually ruling the Westerlands. He has a daughter with some random girl named Sabrina Lannister. After the child Aegon VII becomes king, Sabrina Lannister and her allies wage a war for the throne and win. Aegon VII rules over Dorne, clamoring for his throne.

Wildlings defeat the Nights Watch and take over the wall, but don't push past the Gift. Jon Snow dies naturally after doing nothing. NW eventually retake the wall.

Loras becomes the leader of the Kingsguard and slays a dragon.

Darkstar (me) kills Sweetrobin in battle after the Iron Islands invade Dorne.

There, just saved everyone 3,000 pages worth of reading.

All that sound incredibly epic really lol and awww poor Dany.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

^ that's awesome!

Why isn't the mod working? I've always wanted to play it but I just got the game a few weeks ago and never installed the mod. Are they going to patch it or is it gone for good?

 

[Steelyuhas]

They make it sound like the Purple Wedding episode will be amazing. He seems a bit mopey about the slowness of the series after SoS than focusing on what works and what doesn't with the season.

I though that review was odd, especially coming from the AV Club. Sonia seemed to spend the majority of the review worried about the show's future because she feels the Red Wedding is the best thing Martin wrote. She was mostly praising of course, but there were some odd comments that stuck me.

"...it is unlikely this will be a fan-favorite season. Too many bad things are happening to beloved characters; too many heroes will commit ugly crimes."

Okay...we'll see about that.

 

[Forkball]

^ that's awesome!

Why isn't the mod working? I've always wanted to play it but I just got the game a few weeks ago and never installed the mod. Are they going to patch it or is it gone for good?

CKII just had a huge update because of a new expansion and it broke the mod. The mod often breaks when there's any sort of update so its to be expected, but the people working on it are still very active. I highly recommend it to GoT fans. There are a lot of historical scenarios to start from such as Robert's Rebellion, Feast of Crows, War of Conquest etc. Essos is in there too and in a recent update they even made the Dothrakis playable.