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[ASIS]

While there are some deformed Targs, I wonder if Martin decided to largely replace physical deformities due to incest with mental illness. There's quite a long history of madness on the Targaryen tree, from Viserys to Aerys to Aerion.

Was Viserys really mentally ill though? I mean he could have, and what he did to his sister was inexcusable, but the man went through a lot of shit that made him bitter. He may have been weak, but I don't think he was mentally ill. (Judging from the show, not the books).

 

[Judderman]

Was Viserys really mentally ill though? I mean he could have, and what he did to his sister was inexcusable, but the man went through a lot of shit that made him bitter. He may have been weak, but I don't think he was mentally ill. (Judging from the show, not the books).

He called himself "The Dragon". He was a little cuckoo.

This waiting is going to kill me.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Was Viserys really mentally ill though? I mean he could have, and what he did to his sister was inexcusable, but the man went through a lot of shit that made him bitter. He may have been weak, but I don't think he was mentally ill. (Judging from the show, not the books).

That's actually a good point, and perhaps could be used to defend his father too. Aerys' madness is said to have begun after his imprisonment in Duskendale. I suppose the counter argument might be that Viserys was completely unhinged, beyond just being bitter or angry about the fall of his family. He has no control over his temper and is very similar to Aerion, who was certainly insane.

 

[Randdalf]

Since we've been posting CK2 GOT mod stories, here's mine...

It was surprising how quickly I managed to recover House Hightower after what was essentially an inter-family civil war lasting 3 generations. I'd falsified claims and married off children to make us High Lords of Oldtown and the Westmarch, but I'd installed Hightower family members as the lords in each county. Retrospectively, this was rather foolish of me, as now all my vassals had claims on my main titles.

All was actually going fine and dandy, until one of my grandsons (aptly named Rorge) made a foolish matrilineal marriage, which I didn't realise until I was playing as his father. So then I had to assassinate both his wife and his sole heir, which due to some weird succession law on his wife's side, meant he was now skipped over in the succession and my second son Denys was now my heir.

So I died in a trial by combat (most of my Hightowers have died in some form of combat or were murdered) and then Denys inherited my titles. Unfortunately, Rorge wasn't too happy about this and declared war on me. He was promptly joined by nearly all of my Hightower vassals and quickly won the war then imprisoned me (Denys). By some twist of fate, I had managed to have a son, Preston Hightower, just before I was captured. This turned out to be key since suddenly my aunt Aglantine Hightower claimed the High Lordship of Oldtown and declared war on my brother Rorge. He lost this war, and became known as the rather menacing sounding Ser Rorge Hightower, holder of some ill-begotten castle.

Now I'm not sure what happened here, but my Aunt died of old age, and then suddenly my son Preston became the Lord of Oldtown by some weird result of succession laws that I have yet to fully understand. I was still imprisoned by Ser Rorge in his keep, but as Preston was my son and my only child I was also now his heir.

Ser Rorge then assassinated Preston, which made me the High Lord of Oldtown again even though I had been in prison for the last few years. He then became my heir and when I died in his dungeons and he became, for the second time, Lord Rorge Hightower, now controlled by me. Now after this, Rorge had both a son and a daugher who died of pneumonia when they were young, which meant that his second daugher Ermesande became his heir. Ermesande had been betrothed matrilineally to some young Tyrell lordling who was leftover from a previous plot to acquire the Reach (the Tyrells were no longer Lords of the Reach at this point, it was the Rowans).

Rorge was then killed and at the age of 6, Lady Ermesande Hightower became the ruler of Oldtown and the Westmarch. During the Hightower Civil Wars, it turned out that we had lost a sizeable chunk of land from our demense. Ermesande through her regent, instigated several quick wars to retake these provinces and then began a plot to acquire the Reach once she was of age.

As it turned out, most of our fellow Lords and Ladies did not like the Rowans being Lords Paramount, especially the young girl we had as our liege at the moment. We garnered over 400% support on the plot and then sent a threatening letter to our liege lord, and quick as you know it, she abdicates the Reach (she was also Lady Paramount of the Stormlands as well, so not all was lost) to Lady Ermesande.

Ermesande managed to have one son, Balon, before dying a natural death at the age of 33. Lord Balon took no time at all in declaring House Hightower as Kings of the Reach, outside of the realm of the Iron Throne and the Targaryen king. This was in the midst of some civil war, so we quickly subdued any armies against us and won independence.

King Balon I was not so clever though and he was murdered by a vassal fairly young, leaving only his two sons behind. The first son married off his brother, also called Balon, to the Queen of the Kingdom of Mountain and Vale (the Vale and the North) to secure an alliance. It's also good to point out that for around 100 years, the Lannisters have ruled the smallish Kingdom of the Rock (which was actually established by House Crakehall originally) independently, as have the Arryns as the Kings of Mountain and Vale.

Anyway, Balon's brother King passed away fairly young as well, leaving King Balon II on the throne of the Reach. Balon II murdered his wife, leaving his only son King Gilwood of the Vale, whose heir then happened to be Balon II. Thus King Balon II murdered his son as well, unifying the North, the Vale and the Reach under one banner in his 20s.

That's where the story ends, though it turned out Balon II was a pretty massive badass even in his 50s, as demonstrated in this screenshot during the period we were invaded by the Iron Throne over their claim on the Westmarch.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/577835582257480906/340D2DCD8ABE5549E5B03B7CCE9E3C2B291D5F98/

Yes, he slew the Targaryen king in combat during a massive battle. He nearly slew his son King Haegon as well a few weeks later, but was maimed and never recovered from his injuries.

 

[Cornballer]

- THR: John Bradley (Samwell Tarley) Q&A

 

[belushy]

Well, looks like I'm going to have to buy Crusader Kings then. Game looks mighty confusing, but the GOT mod/map looks awesome. Also still need to get Mount and Blade to play the Clash of Kings mod on that...

 

[Reyne]

That's actually a good point, and perhaps could be used to defend his father too. Aerys' madness is said to have begun after his imprisonment in Duskendale. I suppose the counter argument might be that Viserys was completely unhinged, beyond just being bitter or angry about the fall of his family. He has no control over his temper and is very similar to Aerion, who was certainly insane.

And then there was Rhaegel Targaryen ( brother to Maekar ) who danced naked through the Red Keep and was definitely mad in the proper sense. Baelor the Blessed was probably mad too, and managed starve himself to death, even though it was a holy fast he probably took it too far in his religious fervors, which also requires a special sort of personality. Maegor the Cruel too, possibly, since he somehow managed to die on the Iron Throne, or as they say, by the Iron Throne. Was also quite brutal the way he went about his business which isn't wholly normal either.

 

[3N16MA]

That's actually a good point, and perhaps could be used to defend his father too. Aerys' madness is said to have begun after his imprisonment in Duskendale. I suppose the counter argument might be that Viserys was completely unhinged, beyond just being bitter or angry about the fall of his family. He has no control over his temper and is very similar to Aerion, who was certainly insane.

I believe it runs through the bloodline but of course that does not mean all Targaryen's are mad. Like you said Aerys madness was triggered after the Defiance of Duskendale and Viserys because of his upbringing. On the other hand Rhaella had a horrible marriage and did not seem to go mad like her brother while Dany had the same upbringing as Viserys without going mad.

 

[Steelyuhas]

"Second Sons"

 

[dubq]

I believe it runs through the bloodline but of course that does not mean all Targaryen's are mad. Like you said Aerys madness was triggered after the Defiance of Duskendale and Viserys because of his upbringing. On the other hand Rhaella had a horrible marriage and did not seem to go mad like her brother while Dany had the same upbringing as Viserys without going mad.

..every time a Targaryen is born the gods flip a coin.

 

[Reyne]

I believe it runs through the bloodline but of course that does not mean all Targaryen's are mad. Like you said Aerys madness was triggered after the Defiance of Duskendale and Viserys because of his upbringing. On the other hand Rhaella had a horrible marriage and did not seem to go mad like her brother while Dany had the same upbringing as Viserys without going mad.

Dunno about that. By the end of ADWD Daenerys was having conversations with the grass, on top of of various monologues and what appears to be an hallucination. She could be getting there.

 

[Kain]

Rhaegar also believed he was Azhor Azai or Jesus or something.

But he was awesome and should have beaten Robert

 

[Cornballer]

- Maureen Ryan's review: 'Game of Thrones' Season 4: Finding Rays Of Hope In Dark Places

The most tantalizing changes -- and many of "Game of Thrones" greatest scenes -- involve pairs of people who don't see eye to eye. Watching the first three episodes of Season 4, I realized that one of the things I love most about the show is the terrific sequence of frienemies and odd couples it has brought us. Of course, even when the show is scene-setting mode (as it is in these early episodes), "GoT" now excels at slipping exposition into meaty character moments, and the cast is terrific at nailing what's in the scripts and much more beyond that. But another reason I love these scenes because being half of one of these unlikely duos forces each person to confront and examine their beliefs, actions and attitudes. (The first great scene of the show, I'd argue, is Season 1's wine-soaked conversation between Robert and Cersei -- two people who hated each other but had undoubtedly changed the course of each other's lives.)

 

[gutshot]

Rhaegar also believed he was Azhor Azai or Jesus or something.

But he was awesome and should have beaten Robert

He thought his son, Aegon, was Azor Ahai.

 

[TCRS]

You know when I was reading the books this whole Azor Ahai thing never really struck me as a significant factor. To me it was just part of the myth of Westeros/Essos, but nothing that people took too serious, it was never in the centre of the game of thrones. But people on the internet seem to discuss it a lot, as if things are actually hinging on who the real Azor Ahai is. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

[WrenchNinja]

You know when I was reading the books this whole Azor Ahai thing never really struck me as a significant factor. To me it was just part of the myth of Westeros/Essos, but nothing that people took too serious, it was never in the centre of the game of thrones. But people on the internet seem to discuss it a lot, as if things are actually hinging on who the real Azor Ahai is. Maybe I'm wrong.

Prophecies and destiny are big in fantasy stories

They're all Jon Snow fanboys

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

They're all Jon Snow fanboys

You called?

 

[General_Frags]

He thought his son, Aegon, was Azor Ahai.

Didn't Aery's think Rheagar was Azor Ahai also?

 

[gutshot]

Didn't Aery's think Rheagar was Azor Ahai also?

Maester Aemon did, since Rhaegar was born amidst the "salt and smoke" of the tragedy at Summerhall. Obviously, his death at the Trident nullified that and Aemon later decided Daenerys must be Azor Ahai.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Maester Aemon did, since Rhaegar was born amidst the "salt and smoke" of the tragedy at Summerhal. Obviously, his death at the Trident nullified that and Aemon later decided Daenerys must be Azor Ahai.

Is he a ham?!

 

[Reyne]

Didn't Aery's think Rheagar was Azor Ahai also?

Jaehaerys II made his children, Aerys II and Rhaella, marry each other because a wood witch brought to court had prophesied that the prince that was promised would be born from that line. Rhaegar was born. Not sure what Aerys thought about to be honest.

 

[General_Frags]

Is he a ham?!

I always lol when I read that.

Jaehaerys II made his children, Aerys II and Rhaella, marry each other because a wood witch brought to court had prophesied that the prince that was promised would be born from that line. Rhaegar was born. Not sure what Aerys thought about to be honest.

Right I knew there was another Targaryen other than Amon/Rhaegar that knew about the prophecy.

Dear lord I hope this series doesn't end as badly as the Dune series did.

 

[gutshot]

Preview of Sigur Rós covering The Rains of Castamere.

http://filmmusicreporter.com/2014/0...-the-rains-of-castamere-from-game-of-thrones/

 

[PhoenixDark]

Prophecies and destiny are big in fantasy stories

They're all Jon Snow fanboys

Which is why part of me kind of wishes Jon was 100% dead, even though that would be questionable storytelling; it would also be Martin's most effective take down of a fantasy trope (the prophesied hero with a mysterious path...dies before The Battle even begins).

Even after ADWD, the theories have not changed. Jon will apparently be revived with no cost, discover Robb made him King Of The North, then learn he's actually the king of the entire realm, which will somehow result in him gaining an army to capture the throne.

Martin is going to throw that nonsense into a tub of acid, I just know it.

 

[Yonafunu]

Which is why part of me kind of wishes Jon was 100% dead, even though that would be questionable storytelling; it would also be Martin's most effective take down of a fantasy trope (the prophesied hero with a mysterious path...dies before The Battle even begins).

Even after ADWD, the theories have not changed. Jon will apparently be revived with no cost, discover Robb made him King Of The North, then learn he's actually the king of the entire realm, which will somehow result in him gaining an army to capture the throne.

Martin is going to throw that nonsense into a tub of acid, I just know it.

People actually think this is going to happen? No way.

 

[3N16MA]

People actually think this is going to happen? No way.

Jon gets revived, finds out his mother is Lyanna and his father is Rhaegar, somehow hooks up with Dany, they ride dragons and defeat the others, they get married, they rule the kingdom together.

I think some people actually believe that or at least want it to happen.

 

[Loke13]

Which begs the question how do you guys think this series is going to end?

 

[Massa]

Which begs the question how do you guys think this series is going to end?

In death.

 

[Showaddy]

Stoneheart's got to be the closing moment. Only question is how the reveal her.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

People actually think this is going to happen? No way.

I think people just want the evidence to be true, because there is a lot of it. For all that evidence to be meaningless would just bug people I guess. Unless Martin has another brilliant way to make it all make sense with a different path.

 

[Iksenpets]

Which begs the question how do you guys think this series is going to end?

I said something similar a few pages back, but I think the kingdom briefly unites to fight the Others, but every serious claimant to the throne dies in some way or another during that war or prior to it, so afterwards with peace restored but no king or queen left the seven kingdoms all just go their separate ways. That way characters can fulfil whatever prophecy demands of then by the role they play in saving the world, but no one gets declared the winner, and we aren't left wondering how many years before some new crisis brings the whole system crashing down again.

 

[Yonafunu]

I think people just want the evidence to be true, because there is a lot of it. For all that evidence to be meaningless would just bug people I guess. Unless Martin has another brilliant way to make it all make sense with a different path.

Oh, I do think Jon will come back in a way, and he's Azor Ahai or whatever, in some way. But he sure as hell won't be the same person, something will change. But the rest of that stuff is ridiculous.

 

[todd360]

So um whoever is actually Azor reborn will have to steal the sword off stannis right? Then stab it through their lovers heart because the sword seems to have lost its power. Unless the sword is a sham or something. Who knows where the real one is hidden in that case.

 

[Iksenpets]

So um whoever is actually Azor reborn will have to steal the sword off stannis right? Then stab it through their lovers heart because the sword seems to have lost its power. Unless the sword is a sham or something. Who knows where the real one is hidden in that case.

I don't think Stannis's sword is related to it at all. It's just a regular sword that Melisandre put a glowy glamor on.

 

[todd360]

I don't think Stannis's sword is related to it at all. It's just a regular sword that Melisandre put a glowy glamor on.

But she seems to have thought stannis is the real deal. Unless she has been using him this whole time. If she thinks he's real I would find it weird that she knowingly gave him a fake sword.

 

[SamVimes]

Ugh. I hope there's gonna be very little about chosen ones and stuff like that.

It's fine if a characters symbolically fulfills a prophecy which only makes sense for us as the readers but i really don't care about seeing people rallying for Azor Ahai or whoever.

 

[Backwards Marathon]

So um whoever is actually Azor reborn will have to steal the sword off stannis right? Then stab it through their lovers heart because the sword seems to have lost its power. Unless the sword is a sham or something. Who knows where the real one is hidden in that case.

I feel like re-making Azor Ahai exactly as the tale would be so corny. Stabbing his lover through the heart to make Lightbringer and such is a cool tale but think it would be ridiculous if it played out like that in the current time. They should reinterpret it imo

 

[Iksenpets]

But she seems to have thought stannis is the real deal. Unless she has been using him this whole time. If she thinks he's real I would find it weird that she knowingly gave him a fake sword.

I think, to Melisandre, she received a vision that Stannis is AA, and that means she has to make him AA. She didn't have the real Lightbringer, so she had to make one. The faithful have to actively bring about prophesy through whatever means necessary, that seems to be pretty central to Mel's theology. She made a sword that fits all the requirements of the prophesy, and had Stannis go through all of the steps to forge it that were in the prophesy, and so now it's real. It's weird, but that's how she seems to see the world.

 

[Dysun]

So much laughable stuff is in this review. The show has better world building than the books? The show's scope is explained better?

I understand AFFC/ADWD hate/disappointment, even though I love both. But that review is just too off for me.

So many opinions passed off as fact, "this wont be the best season because reasons". The fuck

 

[Cornballer]

- Rolling Stone interview: Pedro Pascal on Playing the Red Viper

 

[Frank the Great]

It would be funny if Stannis actually is Azor Ahai. Does anyone actually expect that?

 

[ASIS]

He called himself "The Dragon". He was a little cuckoo.

This waiting is going to kill me.

Don't all Targaryens call themselves that though?

That's actually a good point, and perhaps could be used to defend his father too. Aerys' madness is said to have begun after his imprisonment in Duskendale. I suppose the counter argument might be that Viserys was completely unhinged, beyond just being bitter or angry about the fall of his family. He has no control over his temper and is very similar to Aerion, who was certainly insane.

Ok that I didn't know. But I think being called the beggar king, having no home, and having the responsibility to either reclaim the throne (a seemingly impossible task) or be forever mocked in the history books will make anyone lose his temper.

I don't know, the dude was a total dick, and I do not sympathize with him for what he did nor do I want to defend him, but I still see why he would be angry all the time. Aerys may have had a moment of torment, but Viserys had a life time of that.

Also, I have a question, how much time has passed since Robert asked ned to become the King's hand?

 

[todd360]

It would be funny if Stannis actually is Azor Ahai. Does anyone actually expect that?

lol when mel askes to see azor again in book 5 shes only sees snow. Everyone takes that to mean Jon Snow. But she actually just saw Stannis while he was in a ridiculous snowy whiteout and couldn't see him through it.

 

[Forkball]

I don't think Stannis's sword is related to it at all. It's just a regular sword that Melisandre put a glowy glamor on.

I like the theory that the Night's Watch is Lightbringer. Part of the oath says "I am the sword in the darkness" and Jon Snow is the one who "wields" them.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

It would be funny if Stannis actually is Azor Ahai. Does anyone actually expect that?

I think Davos is Azor Ahai. Which would make it all the more ironic.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Also, I have a question, how much time has passed since Robert asked ned to become the King's hand?

The first book begins in early 298 AL. Joffrey dies on the first day of 300 AL. And AFFC/ADWD cover many months but are still in the year 300 AL, I think.

 

[Faddy]

Also, I have a question, how much time has passed since Robert asked ned to become the King's hand?

The books probably document this stuff better but as it is different from the show, lets look at the TV show timeline.

On the show Catelyn said it took the Royal party 3 months to reach Winterfell, so immediately the first episode is covering many months. Robert asked Ned to be his hand on his arrival as they visited the Stark crypt. They stayed at Winterfell for a bit then headed south so it may have been 4 months (or more) between Eddard being asked and reaching King's Landing. How long did Ned serve before his head was chopped off, it is hard to know. He was in cells long enough for Robb to call in his bannermen (the North is a great expanse so that would take a fair bit of time) and march South

The comet in the sky is a communal time marker between locations at the beginning of season 2, but it isn't clear how much time has passed. Certainly it is not an immediate re-entry as Tyrion has time to get to King's Landing with his Hill Tribes (so presumably on foot, maybe by boat?)

Assuming pregnancies still last 38 weeks in Westeros we know the Night's Watch Great Ranging is in the Wilderness after leaving Crasters and returning for about that time since Gilly is pregnant when they first arrive and has her baby as they return. So lets say it takes just over a year from Bran seeing the Comet and meeting Sam, Gilly and the baby near the wall.

Then Sam takes an unknown amount of time to reach Castle Black and dispatch Ravens telling of White Walkers, probably a few weeks arriving not long before Jon returns.

I would say season 1 lasts a year from Ned learning of Jon Arryn's death to capturing Jaime Lannister
(some time passes, Robb wins a couple of battles, a month or so but less than 6 because Sam mentions not seeing a girl for 6 months when the comet is overhead)
From the comet to the end of season 3 is probably another year.

Not more than 2.5 years has passed in the series since Ned was asked to be hand

 

[Speevy]

I wonder how the part of Oberyn Martell was described to Pedro Pascal.

"So yes, you're going after Gregor Clegane to avenge your family."

"Great."

"There's this big battle, and you're totally kicking his ass."

"Sounds good."

"And then..."

"You've got to be kidding me."

 

[DrForester]

In the books hasn't only 3, maybe 4 years passed since the series started?

 

[FootballFan]

I wonder how the part of Oberyn Martell was described to Pedro Pascal.

"So yes, you're going after Gregor Clegane to avenge your family."

"Great."

"There's this big battle, and you're totally kicking his ass."

"Sounds good."

"And then..."

"You've got to be kidding me."

I cringed when he lost that battle.

Man...no words.