Pretty good.
You could also add that if they do Stoneheart and she is depicted among the Brotherhood Without Banners, then those are here "Children" of the North. And they murder Merrett Frey. A child of Walder Frey's.
*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 4 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Pretty good.
You could also add that if they do Stoneheart and she is depicted among the Brotherhood Without Banners, then those are here "Children" of the North. And they murder Merrett Frey. A child of Walder Frey's.
Supermanisdead
Member
team #stannisthemannis reporting in. get hyped. the iron throne is his BY RIGHTS.
Team Stannis sounds so right/wrong when Carice says it.
FootballFan
Member
He will be badass.
Stannis is pretty awesome to be honest. Great character, do you guys feel as though book readers have a more positive opinion of him than the show watchers? Or am I seeing something that is not there?
They better not have a fade to black battle at the wall when Stannis arrives.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
I'm rubbing my sword hilts in anticipation.
Seriously, I want to see Daario rub his sword hilts suggestively.
Seriously, I want to see Daario rub his sword hilts suggestively.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I think that's true about the book readers. We've gotten an in-depth look to the precise qualities of his character that show only fans haven't. Stannis in the show is great, but I think a lot of what makes him good as a character was lost during the transition from page to screen.
Stannis was ok in the show, not as good as the books but bearable, then the scene with the night's watch letter happened, and they butchered his character development completely. It's the one thing on the show that I have truly hated, the scene just infuriates me because of how it gives the polar opposite meaning of what it is meant to.
I kind of doubt show watchers think much of Stannis. The show doesn't give many reasons for anyone to like/care about him.
Even as a book reader I'm pretty indifferent toward him.
What happens in this scene? I've completely forgotten it
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Random question, but are we getting Val this season?
Book: "Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne." Stannis pointed north. "There is where I'll find the enemy I was born to fight."
Show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFjooACGLpI
Steelyuhas
Member
No news of a Val casting.
I'm quite curious to see how much Mance we'll see. I was surprised at how little they used him last year and he hasn't been featured in promotion of this season. Obviously in an ideal world, they'd like to spend more time with probably just about every character, but it seems like a waste to have Hinds for the role and not use him very much.
I had that same question in mind. We definitely should, but seeing as the show is taking some liberties, I don't think it's a certain thing.
In the books, Stannis gets to this point where the good and bad angels on his shoulders, Davos and Melisandre, both confront him, with Melisandre encouraging war on the south and sacrificing Edric Storm, and Davos saving the boy. Then as Stannis is about to punish him for it, Davos reveals the letter, and we later find out that Stannis made the decision to come north, independent of Melisandre (and probably against her wishes). It's very important as it's the moment where he stops being selfish and starts acting like a true king should, leading himself rather than being led by Mel.
In the show he ignores Davos letter and is going to go through with executing him until Mel says actually he shouldn't and they should head north, so Stannis does as she says like a little bitch. He doesn't change as a character at all, and comes across as far more selfish and unkingly.
The book quote posted above sums up what Stannis character arc from books 2 and 3 is supposed to be, and the show completely turned it around, and replaced it with nothing. If they'd at least given him a different arc and development then I could cope with it, it's the fact that he's just her bitch that boils my blood.
And now I'm ranting. Fuck I hate that scene.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Just start smacking some of those fools with the banhammer and they'll learn real quick!
Yep. Exciting events brings in new viewers and helps keep current ones, and this should be the best season yet, and probably at all. In fact considering how many bombs will be dropped I expect viewers to go up lol.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I think they're going to be mainly focusing on Ygritte and Tormund, but I would be surprised if they didn't show at least a fair bit of Mance in preparation for the attack.
Yeah. Ideally she'd show up after the battle with Stannis, but they'll probably end up casting her next season.
Absolutely. With Joff's death and the Stoneheart reveal, everyone's going to be hyped beyond belief.
Supermanisdead
Member
Yeah it probably will. I feel like this season is getting the biggest viewership bump probably but it will just grow slowly. I know more than a few people who heard about this Red Wedding business and now are avid watchers.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm a big Davos fan and thus became a big Stannis fan. I think part of the reason Stannis has become so popular is because he's the last man standing in a sense. Not many readers were probably supporting him through much of ACOK, when there were more appealing kings to root for; sure I wanted Stannis to win the Blackwater but my overall allegiance was with Robb. But by ADWD Stannis is the only man left to face off against quite an ugly rogue gallery. If you want the Freys and Boltons to pay, how can you not root for Stannis?
Also I think Stannis has grown, and is slowly becoming a good ruler. I can't imagine ACOK or even ASOS Stannis working with the northern lords or clansmen; old Stannis would dismiss them as traitors and perhaps even demand they reject their gods.
Too bad Stannis is probably fucked. I expect him to defeat the Boltons/ Freys but I don't see his sellsword plan working, nor do I think he'll return to the south. I think the north will abandon him when Rickon arrives, and Stannis will return to the Wall where he'll become the Night's King.
Also I think Stannis has grown, and is slowly becoming a good ruler. I can't imagine ACOK or even ASOS Stannis working with the northern lords or clansmen; old Stannis would dismiss them as traitors and perhaps even demand they reject their gods.
Too bad Stannis is probably fucked. I expect him to defeat the Boltons/ Freys but I don't see his sellsword plan working, nor do I think he'll return to the south. I think the north will abandon him when Rickon arrives, and Stannis will return to the Wall where he'll become the Night's King.
ADWD Stannis is a legit rightful King, dude is both more deserving and more fitting for the role than any of these other claimers. Dany, Robb, Joff, maybe even Aegon are not the ruler the Kingdom needs. Stannis is. (Dany is still progressing admittedly, she could yet be proper Queen material.)
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I could see Stannis becoming king and then kicking the bucket. I don't think he'll last through to the end of the series.
I truly believe Rickon could join cause with Stannis. After all, it's the Baratheon king who's seeking justice for the Starks*, and him defeating the Boltons/Freys could win Rickon's loyalty.
*Not his main cause, mind you.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, they really fucked up Stannis there, and for no good reason as far as I can tell.
I have a personal feeling that Stannis fate may be linked to Dany. He's the last Baratheon (Tommen and Myrcella don't count), so he is symbolic of the entire reason why Dany wants to get back to Westeros, to get her throne back from him. So I think he will be King if and when she arrives. Depending on what Martin wants Dany's ultimate character arc to be could then determine what happens. She may have learnt to truly put the lives and interests of her 'children' before her own by then and concede he is a good king lol. Or maybe not. This is kinda off-topic for this season though so I should shut up.
I'd like it if she got there but ultimately decided to refound Valyria or something. Or maybe go to live at the house with the red door in peace.
This is what I like about Stannis. He's the only one who seems to have actually grown into a better ruler over the course of the series. He's the only one who seems to learn from his advisors and has on multiple occasions allowed himself to be swayed from his first instincts by good advice from others. He gets a reputation for stubbornness because if his hardass persona, but he's allowed both Davos and Jon to convince him that he's wrong about something or another in a way that I don't think any of the other major players would have.
I don't buy a lot of the Grand Northern Conspiracy stuff that the Northerners are going to abandon him, because I think there're still way too many common interests between them for that to happen, but he's definitely doomed to die before the end and it will totally be sad.
I think the big thing is that Rickon is going to be a puppet of Manderly whenever he resurfaces, and Manderly has every reason to pursue alliance with Stannis. Unlike some of the other Northerners who are more hardcore Northern nationalists, he's an ethnic southerner who runs a trading city, so his power depends on good relations with trading partners to the south. Also, so long as the northerners want any kind of revenge on Frey, Stannis is their best means for projecting power southward. The Lannisters and Greyjoys I could see them giving up on and just deciding to stay home in the North, but I can't imagine them resting while Frey is still breathing.
The what now?
The legit rightful king is whoever has the strength to take the throne. Blood doesn't matter anymore. The targs were defeated. They have no claim to the throne now.
In my opinion atleast. I don't even know who I want to win anymore lol. I feel like I'll have a better idea of who I want to win after book 6.
Well by legit rightful I meant who would make for the best king.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I don't buy the full Grand Northern Conspiracy, and instead treat it like a buffet: some things I like and some things I don't like. It's very hard for me to buy the idea that the north will march south with Stannis after Rickon returns. They'll either return to their homes and wait out winter or fight against the Others. How would Stannis get back south? I suppose he could ride on the boats Massey acquires but who knows.
I think Aegon will be king when Dany arrives. It just seems like the table is perfectly set for him to rule for a short period.
I think Aegon will be king when Dany arrives. It just seems like the table is perfectly set for him to rule for a short period.
Oh I see. I would argue that whoever has the strength and cunning to actually take the throne would be the best at this point. The realm isn't very stable right now and needs someone strong to hold the throne or it will just dive into chaos again when someone takes out the new king or queen.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I think Gendry would make a great king. Or Davos.
Will probably never happen though.
Will probably never happen though.
Steelyuhas
Member
Agreed that there's no way the Northern lords follow Stannis south. They see him as a means to an end, a way to overthrow Bolton rule of the north and buy time to procure a Stark heir.
It's quite unfortunate really. The King needs to be someone men follow or there's no hope of holding the Kingdom together. The northerners won't follow Stannis, so despite him being the best man for the job right now he probs still wouldn't work. Hmm, I'm starting to think more and more that Dany is being trained up for this by her travels. Perhaps Jon will be the one to persuade the North to follow either her or Stannis or whoever.
FootballFan
Member
Or maybe, no kingdoms at all.
Supermanisdead
Member
It will be Sansa on the iron throne by herself in the end.
They should all go back to ruling individual territories with 7 different kingdoms rather than fighting over something they cannot hold. The Targaryen's set the current system in place because they were superior and could conquer multiple kingdoms. They should be the only ones to hold it.
Targaryen conquest, Targaryen rule, a Targaryen kingdom. Everyone will be better off with it.
Support Dany.
Targaryen conquest, Targaryen rule, a Targaryen kingdom. Everyone will be better off with it.
Support Dany.
FootballFan
Member
Have some mercy please.
FootballFan
Member
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