Randyll Tarly for season 6 then.
Kind of weird the show hasn't reintroduced Myrcella yet. Show the contrast with the weaker Tommen and the proposal of making her queen.
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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 5 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Steelyuhas
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Kind of weird the show hasn't reintroduced Myrcella yet. Show the contrast with the weaker Tommen and the proposal of making her queen.
dsp
Member
So a bit off topic, but I'm considering changing my avatar (first time ever really) and thought that if I did do it I'd make it GoT related. At the moment I'm thinking about these two ones below, Bittersteel and Rhaegar. I'm leaning more towards Bittersteel but which do you people think looks better, not to say I'm entirely convinced at the moment that I will change avatars.
Rhaegar
Bittersteel
Bittersteel.
Oldest Snake
Member
Pffffft, you need SHOCKS, TWISTS and DEATHS to make good TV.
Game of Thrones is the Marvel of television. It's so popular that it can't afford to have a season with less 'action' than the last otherwise people will start calling it boring, so it just keeps ramping it up season after season to the detriment of character development.
Holy shit, this would be perfect.
'daor' essentially means 'not'. "Zaldrīzes buzdari iksos daor" - a dragon is not a slave.
Imagine Ian McShane staring down John Bradley. It'd be incredible.
This is the nerdiest thing I've ever noticed, but as amazing as Emilia is at her Valyrian (that scene and line being the highlight of her entire arc so far), she mispronounced "iksos" as "iskos". Go back and listen!
Also, Steely? Can you please change the title of the Unsullied thread to SANSA AND THE BOLTONS ARE IN WINTERFELL. It's killing me.
Basileus777
Member
You say this like the written version of this story doesn't go for shocks, twists, and (fake) deaths all the time. ASOIAF in either medium is a soap opera. The TV series is paced differently (often by necessity, sometimes by poor writing) but it's hardly unfaithful to the spirit of the books when it comes to those three things. And I'm not sure how any of this relates to Sansa going to Winterfell, which is almost certain to be tamer than what happened to Jeyne Poole in the books. We're talking about a storyline that in the source material involved rape, bestiality, maiming, and torture.
That would be incredible, I very much enjoy McShane in everything he does though.
re: mispronunciation - I did not notice that but definitely gonna have a look after work. I wouldn't have noticed that then anyway (series 3, was it?) as I only started looking properly at High Valyrian about a year ago. I'd already had a good look at Dothraki. I'm wondering if, besides being a probably mistake, Emilia mixed up her tenses a little. Some forms of the irregular sagon are missing /k/ and just have /is/ - i.e. 3SG Present is "issa". I'm not sure how much syntax the actors learn of the conlangs. Definitely one of my favourite things about the series, considering GRRM isn't good at actually creating the languages.
Woody Invincible
Banned
I haven't peeked in there. Do they think that the gang is in Moat Cailin?
But he's right. D&D said that Sansa in the Vale was boring so they gave her Poole's story, because the audience wouldn't care about a random character they've only seen once or twice be raped by Ramsay, but they would if it was Sansa.
So logic and character development be damned for good TV. Will the torture be as bad as Jeyne's? Not portrayed, due to the medium.
I still find it great that for as heinous as things can get in the books, the shocking Sansa moment in the TWOW chapter that was hyped up for months?
Sansa got her flirt on
Why do you assume the shocking Sansa chapter was the teaser chapter GRRM posted?
That seemed more to show that the Sansa story in the show was going to be vastly different from the intended book story. Maybe just to avoid theories that the Bolton's and Sansa/Littlefinger storyline would end up this way in the book.
Pretty sure it was confirmed that it was the 'controversial' Sansa chapter.
Yeah, I find it really funny when book purists complain about the show going for the shock factor when GRRM actually does that far more often.
RobotChant
Member
In the show Rickon and crew went to the Umbers. That means the show can have Stannis hear word of Rickon on his march south, and order Davos to go retrieve him.
I believe they said they wanted Sansa to have something to do in season 5, not that they would make her Jeyne Poole. And it was clear in the dinner scene that she's not the same Sansa that froze up and looked sad whenever someone verbally tortured her, so I would disagree that they're sacrificing her character development.
Chapter cliff hangers, yes. But how many times have the books gone for shock value/ACTION that made no sense in the context of what was already established?
bengraven
Member
I meant in the books, since it was said that Saan bailed.
I wonder if Davos, having no king to support anymore (lol), will do a Brienne like quest to find Rickon.
Basileus777
Member
Are you really damning the show for not developing Jeyne Poole in prior seasons? The motive for moving Sansa to Winterfell is pretty clear, they have moved all the characters into 4 or 5 locations because the show can't spread out into 10,000 places with 40,000 characters like the books do.
The shock was hyped by one person and it was supposed to be for certain shippers. This is hardly meaningful.
I thought it was a good episode. A lot of storylines were pushed aside, but the ones we did see were more richly expanded upon. I think the same thing will happen next episode with all the plotlines we didn't see in Kill the Boy.
I can't buy Stannis dying this season. Stannis is going to die in the next five hours of show time? No, just no. I really don't think we are going to get a conclusion to the Winterfell battle this season. We may end with the news that Stannis is dead ala ADWD, but I definitely do not think we will see it on screen. A lot of people are speculating that Shireen gets burned to resurrect Stannis (who may be falsely declared dead). I can MAYBE see this happening (with the result that Jon comes back), but most people are basing this off of the trailer shot of Selyse in the snow. That could be anything and honestly it doesn't seem like she would even care if Shireen got burned.
There was a good set up for the Night's Watch mutiny this episode. When Olly doesn't agree you know you've fucked up. I am still curious if that is even going to happen at all though. Jon is going to Hardhome and from the previews it looks like there is a big battle there. The White Walkers will probably attack as well. Maybe Jon gets "killed" or captured that episode and never makes it back to the Wall. I can't see him popping up back at the Wall in episode 10 like, "Oh shit guys I had this crazy ass White Walker battle we've really got to put some sandbags up to-hey did you just stab me?"
The North stuff is still pretty strange, but it's going to be intriguing to see how it all plays out. You have so many subplots and converging storylines there. Sansa and Ramsay getting married, Reek still being under Ramsay's control, Stannis marching on Winterfell, Fat Walda carrying Roose's child, Myranda... doing something, Brienne trying to save Sansa, escape plans fueled by candles etc. The climax at Winterfell this season should be thrilling if we get a conclusion to all these arcs.
They totally botched Valyria. It is supposed to be this huge empire that was engulfed by flames and lava. This shit looked like something you'd see rafting down a river in Cambodia. THE SEA IS SUPPOSED TO BE LITERALLY BLACK AND SMOKING MEN FEAR TO TREAD THERE. Jorah getting greyscale is something a few people predicted but I am still surprised it happened. I wonder how it will play out in the long run. Will he inadvertently spread greyscale among Dany's enemies? Or allies?
Dany... shades of Aerys. I don't have that big of a problem with her storyline this season. A point is being made: Dany is an unproven ruler who makes some bad decisions and therefore has to deal with the consequences. I thought the scene with Hizdahr was funny though.
Hizdahr: I don't want to die!
Dany: What happened to Valar Morghulis?
Hizdahr: I was just making that shit up to sound cool, I'll give you honeyed locusts if you set me free!
Next week will be Episode 5, A Feast for Crows edition.
I can't buy Stannis dying this season. Stannis is going to die in the next five hours of show time? No, just no. I really don't think we are going to get a conclusion to the Winterfell battle this season. We may end with the news that Stannis is dead ala ADWD, but I definitely do not think we will see it on screen. A lot of people are speculating that Shireen gets burned to resurrect Stannis (who may be falsely declared dead). I can MAYBE see this happening (with the result that Jon comes back), but most people are basing this off of the trailer shot of Selyse in the snow. That could be anything and honestly it doesn't seem like she would even care if Shireen got burned.
There was a good set up for the Night's Watch mutiny this episode. When Olly doesn't agree you know you've fucked up. I am still curious if that is even going to happen at all though. Jon is going to Hardhome and from the previews it looks like there is a big battle there. The White Walkers will probably attack as well. Maybe Jon gets "killed" or captured that episode and never makes it back to the Wall. I can't see him popping up back at the Wall in episode 10 like, "Oh shit guys I had this crazy ass White Walker battle we've really got to put some sandbags up to-hey did you just stab me?"
The North stuff is still pretty strange, but it's going to be intriguing to see how it all plays out. You have so many subplots and converging storylines there. Sansa and Ramsay getting married, Reek still being under Ramsay's control, Stannis marching on Winterfell, Fat Walda carrying Roose's child, Myranda... doing something, Brienne trying to save Sansa, escape plans fueled by candles etc. The climax at Winterfell this season should be thrilling if we get a conclusion to all these arcs.
They totally botched Valyria. It is supposed to be this huge empire that was engulfed by flames and lava. This shit looked like something you'd see rafting down a river in Cambodia. THE SEA IS SUPPOSED TO BE LITERALLY BLACK AND SMOKING MEN FEAR TO TREAD THERE. Jorah getting greyscale is something a few people predicted but I am still surprised it happened. I wonder how it will play out in the long run. Will he inadvertently spread greyscale among Dany's enemies? Or allies?
Dany... shades of Aerys. I don't have that big of a problem with her storyline this season. A point is being made: Dany is an unproven ruler who makes some bad decisions and therefore has to deal with the consequences. I thought the scene with Hizdahr was funny though.
Hizdahr: I don't want to die!
Dany: What happened to Valar Morghulis?
Hizdahr: I was just making that shit up to sound cool, I'll give you honeyed locusts if you set me free!
Next week will be Episode 5, A Feast for Crows edition.
And the way that's played out in the books is dull for me, personally. Mainly because, for 5 books, Sansa is still being played as the helpless victim, even in her own PoV chapters. I like what they seem to be doing with show Sansa. Last season she had a lot of development. Not sure about this season, as I haven't watched it.
Who's saying shocks and twists are needed for good television? Some of my favorite shows don't throw out shocks and twists and deaths every two seconds.
Directionless isn't exactly the right word, but I should say that Sansa's character development is incredibly slow going, in contrast to someone like Dany, who's character development was actually rather fast (victim to aggressor in the span of a book). Sansa has been put through the ringer, but as far as the book goes, she's still the same Sansa that she was in her very first pages in A Game of Thrones. No matter how annoyed we may be that Dany makes boneheaded decisions, or that she's not in Westeros yet, we can't say that Dany is the same frightened teenager she was in her first chapter of A Game of Thrones.
While Sansa's story arc in the books at least, is barely moving, and neither is her character arc. Her character in the books is forced to sit and wait in silence while the big boys make all the decisions for her. That's just not very entertaining to read. Perhaps I'm just not a fan of passive characters who spend their entire story arcs getting shit on and manipulated by everyone.
It's where I think show Sansa is succeeding. We have been getting teased bits and pieces of character growth. Her time with Joffrey has changed her. She is still sweet, kind Sansa, but she isn't quite the victim she has been. Some of the lessons that Cersei imparted on her many moons ago she seems to have taken to heart. Her conversation with the Tyrell women have also had an affect on her. We saw last season how she is learning that she can "control" Littlefinger using what god gave her; her charm, looks, and naivete. There's no "Dark Sansa," just a teenage girl who is growing up and realizing that the world around her isn't like it is in her story books, and she must learn to survive. I'm not expecting a super cutthroat Sansa, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it goes that route in show or book. I can see her snapping, but I can also see her simply becoming a smart manipulator, like Margery. Sansa is in much more control, and is much more aware, in the show compared to her book counterpart. That makes her much more interesting. She doesn't need to shock us, or kill lots of people in order to make that interesting. She's in a very perilous position, where a misstep or misjudgment could cost her dearly. That's exciting to watch. Her sitting in the Eyrie slapping Robin while Littlefinger creeps on her isn't fun to read in the books.
I'm very interested to see how her arc plays out in the show (and I hope her arc picks up in the books too).
Steelyuhas
Member
lol just pretend that thread doesn't exist!
...is there actually still confusion around that?...how?
We've had several shots of Moat Caitlin from afar but not from WF and Brienne looks like she is in WF too, it's somewhat understandable that some people have a hard time figuring out which is which. I think it mainly has to do with the North being all bleak and dark and cold. That's why lighting is so important for TV/films: it's one of the main discerning features between different places.
KingHenrik30
Member
You mean, having Sansa play a helpless victim?
She is an active participant, willingly marrying Ramsay with the eventual goal of getting revenge for her family. I wouldn't call her a helpless victim at this point. She is knowingly putting herself in a dangerous position in order to try and manipulate a victory.
KingHenrik30
Member
Active? She was essentially dumped there, something she vehemently didn't want. The only thing LF told her was "Oh marry him and yadda yadda yadda you'll get revenge for your family." What's she doing to further that?
She's done absolutely nothing on the show of importance since then but been put in awkward situations.
You're ignoring what did happen (Sansa made the decision to marry Ramsay) and claiming something that hasn't happened at all in this season (Sansa playing a helpless victim).
KingHenrik30
Member
She made the decision? LF basically told her nothing and they just showed up in the North. "Oh I'm Marrying you off the Ramsay" What was she gonna do? Do you think she really had a choice in the matter, the deal was already brokered.
That's complete bullshit. She had the final say in making the decision to go to Winterfell.
Steelyuhas
Member
There was a shot of Brienne looking at Winterfell paired with a conversion about Sansa being in Winterfell. I feel like a viewer is just not paying attention if they aren't grasping that.
Cornballer
Member
I'm still befuddled by this choice of key art:
The dragon cgi has been quite good so far this season, so I'm confused as to why they couldn't throw something a little better together.
It's a minor complaint. *shrugs*
In other news, ratings were down slightly from week 4 to a season low. 6.6M viewers for the first run and a 3.5 in the 18-49 demo. The numbers have been very consistent the last four weeks.
The dragon cgi has been quite good so far this season, so I'm confused as to why they couldn't throw something a little better together.
It's a minor complaint. *shrugs*
In other news, ratings were down slightly from week 4 to a season low. 6.6M viewers for the first run and a 3.5 in the 18-49 demo. The numbers have been very consistent the last four weeks.
It's definitely the unobservant minority who think they're still in Moat Cailin, and they're promptly shut down by other GAFfers, but it's still cringeworthy to read. I admit that the initial transition from Moat Cailin to Winterfell was quite clumsily handled, but I just don't understand how people don't get that they're in Winterfell now, multiple episodes later.
Cornballer
Member
bodyofanamerican
Member
If you think it's infuriating to READ, try watching it with a book reader that doesn't remember anything. This past week I was asked "where is that?" when Brienne was looking out the window, "was this in the book?" for various events, and "how does Bolton know Stannis is coming" . INFURIATING.
This is after Sansa SAYYYYYYS "We're in Winterfell, it is my home".
Steelyuhas
Member
Yeah putting together something from that scene would have been a lot cooler than the PhotoShop 101 tier key art.I'm still befuddled by this choice of key art:
The dragon cgi has been quite good so far this season, so I'm confused as to why they couldn't throw something a little better together.
It's a minor complaint. *shrugs*
HBO's marketing is strange on that front, they've basically mailed it in with art for GoT the last couple years (they didn't even do character art this year).
Heh
KingHenrik30
Member
And if she said no what was LF gonna do? He's already made himself an enemy of the crown by parading Sansa Stark, a wanted criminal, out in the open. Now he's gonna make himself an enemy of the Boltons? She was going there whether she wanted to or not. And she didn't want to go.
And why the fuck is her hair still black? What's the point, it's not like she hiding or pretending to be someone else.
bodyofanamerican
Member
It'd be funny if LF's story to Cersei is that Sansa's a fake that he's using to play the Boltons.
It doesn't matter because she didn't say no. She made the choice of her own volition.
KingHenrik30
Member
What was her other choice though? "You got it Sansa, ok guys pack it up, we're going back to the Erie and you can marry Harry the Heir" LF, master planner, knew she'd say yes. That doesn't necessarily make it of her own volition.
You could say the same about book Sansa, it was not exactly her idea to seduce Harry the Heir. Of course she's being manipulated by Littlefinger.
KingHenrik30
Member
You could, but I'm not arguing against that
cartoon_soldier
Member
Sansa needs to become the best Game player around. And I hopefully she does become one.
She could have said no, but she said yes. Whatever would happen if she said no is completely irrelevant. She decided that yes, I will go marry Ramsay and try to get revenge for my family. She is actively playing the game. You can see it on her face when she is greeted by Roose and Ramsay. The convo between Littlefinger and Sansa in the crypt post-Rhaegar back story reiterates it. She is an active participant. She could be protesting every step of the way but she's not. The fact that Littlefinger gave her an option and she chose to go through with it is incredibly important to her character and not something you can just brush aside or try to minimize or explain away.
So you don't think she was convinced by Littlefinger that marrying Ramsay to get revenge was the best thing to do?
cartoon_soldier
Member
Re watching bits and pieces
Kill the boy part was so good. Jon and Aemon both on point.
God I can't wait for these final 5 episodes. GIVE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Kill the boy part was so good. Jon and Aemon both on point.
God I can't wait for these final 5 episodes. GIVE MEEEEEEEEEEEEE
KingHenrik30
Member
You can't just ignore what the other option would have been because it didn't happen. That's not how things work. What was her other option? The master planner shleped her all the way to Winterfell just to have her not agree with his plan without a thought to what would happen if she said no? He already brokered a deal for her to marry Ramsay. He's going to break that and make another enemy? Please, explain this to me.
Again, she's active? What is she doing to further this revenge plot she knows nothing about? What's she doing to make it happen other than having an extremely awkward and embarrassing dinner with the people who killed her mother and brother?
I don't understand why I should have to explain a scenario that isn't going to happen.
KingHenrik30
Member
Because that doesn't mean it didn't exist. I keep hearing "it was her choice", which denotes that there WAS another option then - what was it? And if there was no other option for them, then did she really consent to this? Is she really that actively participating in this ruse? She's aware of the whole plan and she's actively participating in seeing through this revenge plot, or is she just relying on the proverbial "Long Con"?
Just because it didn't happen doesn't mean it didn't influence the decision in the first place.
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